Libertarians Rule, Ds And Rs Drool...

[Wild Bill]

I always remind them, every year, we have to slaughter hundreds of children to have it.  I support the second amendment,... but let us not try to cover up the true cost.

 

The second amendment doesn't cause the slaughter. Irresponsible gun owners are the cause.

 

 

[ANHEMP]

Fresh local reality;

 

Local gun dealer's kid shot himself in the head after a bonfire party with friends. The investigation says it was an accident, not suicide.

 

No mental illness. Loaded guns laying around.

 

All statistics aside, how do you fix that?

 

Is this 17 year old's death a cost of having gun freedom? 

No it's a cost of democrats SMART gun bill in NJ.  If that bill didn't automatically make every non SMART gun illegal the minute the first one in the country was sold we could have SMART guns that would only fire for their owner.  With a SMART gun someone could take it from you and try and shoot and it wouldn't work if you don't have the same fingerprint or a ring on your finger that has to be within 4 inches of teh gun for it to fire.  It sure as hell isn't because of teh 2nd amendment.

[ANHEMP]

The only answer for accidental gun deaths is getting the word out that they happen often. Tell the stories. People get to thinking about them. Then it's the process of natural selection. The whole 'statistics' thing is cold and impersonal. This issue needs to be in your face and personal. It happens all around you all the time. Think of ways to help stop it. This is only fixed by thinking. 

Where's your data that "accidents" happen often.  Over 38% are suicides for kids, closer to 50% are suicides for adults.  The cops kill over 10% of the gun deaths in America each year.  There were probably more deaths from gangs and drug violence than tehre were suicides.  I don't think there are a LOT of accidents with guns.  Which is why I'm saying that if you take away the suicides and drug/gang violence there aren't many left for accidents.  The suicides and gang/drug violence/shootings can be quelled with better mental health services and opportunities and ending the drug war.  That is 2 changes we can make to take away well over 50% of the shootings.  That's exactly why I'm saying it's not a cost of the second amendment.

 

Even Mal knows that as he stated in the post after yours.  Which is why I'm confused as to why he still thinks this is cost of the 2nd.  Must be arrogance and ego.  he can't admit when someone has shown him to be wrong. 

Edited June 21, 2017 by ANHEMP

[ANHEMP]

 

i think mal is saying one can argue for the 2nd amendment, for guns, while educating people on the dangers of gun ownership and the responsibilities of not leaving loaded weapons where childrens can access them.

 

what part of that confuses you?

He won't even admit that the cause of the suicides isn't the 2nd amendment.  If it wasn't guns it'd be pills or something else for that statistic.  might it be a smaller # yes, but it sure wouldn't stop more than a few %.  Just like taking guns from service members only brought the suicide rate down a few %.

  That's not what he's saying.  The article even shows most related to gang/drugs.  That has nothing to do with leaving guns where kids can access them.  He knows what he's saying.  And nothing is confusing me.  He just doesn't like that I know the truth about his actions and he's trying to spin it so he doesn't look like an anti.

[ANHEMP]

By thinking.

 

Ask yourself the question; Could this happen with my gun(s)? Many gun owners don't think. They just have guns, lots of guns. They don't realize the great responsibility involved. Good thinkers don't have as many accidents. 

Stereotype much?  Again show me a statistic on how many of these are accidental from people leaving loaded weapons out.  If gun owners were as irresponsible as you portray them there'd be a lot more problems.

[Restorium2]

You fix this one case at a time. The case I brought up was about loaded guns with the wrong people having access. 

 

I do understand that you are just here to put anyone posting here in the worst light possible. For you it's not about the issue it's about the poster. 

[ANHEMP]

Look at what you said.  You said MANY gun owners don't think, they just have guns, lots of guns.  You don't see anything wrong with that statement?  I hit the like button for things that people say that I but heads with.  I couldn't give 2 shiits who you are it's what you say.  Look at my recent likes for Mal and Zap, the 2 I most but heads with.  Sorry try again.

By thinking.

 

Ask yourself the question; Could this happen with my gun(s)? Many gun owners don't think. They just have guns, lots of guns. They don't realize the great responsibility involved. Good thinkers don't have as many accidents. 

[+Malamute]

No needs to put words in mouth.

 

It is a cost of a right.

 

I know you keep trying to say ALL these injuries and death is about lesser people committing suicide and drugs! and black people and " Move along!, nothing to see here".

 

Your excuses fall blank, your scrambling has left you contradicting yourself over and over.

 

*shrug*

 

It is simply a cost.

[Restorium2]

Look at what you said.  You said MANY gun owners don't think, they just have guns, lots of guns.  You don't see anything wrong with that statement?  I hit the like button for things that people say that I but heads with.  I couldn't give 2 shiits who you are it's what you say.  Look at my recent likes for Mal and Zap, the 2 I most but heads with.  Sorry try again.

I ignore likes.

 

Many gun owners obviously are not thinking because of the many accidents that involve them not thinking. There a bazillion gun owners. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know many are not thinking things through. There's some room for improvement. 

[Highlander]

I might take these second amendments arguments seriously if they were not so tilted and contrived at all levels of application. The fact that all NRA members are not getting active over the Philando Castile verdict is outrageous to me. I went to the NRA-ILA news site, and a search for Philando returns zero hits. They are absolutely unmoved. Come on!

It's kinda like the Muslim terrorist thing. People want Muslims to stand up and rail against Islamic terrorists. Similarly, the NRA should admonish those who commit gun crimes.

[Highlander]

I ignore likes.

 

Many gun owners obviously are not thinking because of the many accidents that involve them not thinking. There a bazillion gun owners. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know many are not thinking things through. There's some room for improvement.

 

I read a news story today that said over a million kids in the USA live in a home with loaded, unlocked, and accessible guns. I haven't fact-checked it. But if true, it's sad.

 

I'm sick of the bumper sticker rhetoric. "Guns don't kill people."

[ANHEMP]

No needs to put words in mouth.

 

It is a cost of a right.

 

I know you keep trying to say ALL these injuries and death is about lesser people committing suicide and drugs! and black people and " Move along!, nothing to see here".

 

Your excuses fall blank, your scrambling has left you contradicting yourself over and over.

 

*shrug*

 

It is simply a cost.

Now you're throwing race in to try and make me look bad.  Sure sign you lost.

There are no contradictions. Point out one.  You're now just using buzzwords to make it look like you are right.  You're words and actions contradict themselves.  You are for the 2nd amendment but you can pull up a 2.5yr old thread with one mention of guns to put up a biased anti gun article?  Pot meet kettle.

[ANHEMP]

I ignore likes.

 

Many gun owners obviously are not thinking because of the many accidents that involve them not thinking. There a bazillion gun owners. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know many are not thinking things through. There's some room for improvement. 

Well now I'm telling you.

Of course, always, but most of these 7k are deliberate.  Personally, with a bazillion owners and the # of incidence which are accidents I'd say a few, not many.  It's like <1% which experience problems and over 97% are from pistol owners.  A lot of people who have guns don't have pistols so..... quite a small amount.

[+Malamute]

I'm a dog. I can hear the dog whistles.

 

Just keep minimizing the sacrifice ad making excuses to feel better.

 

There is a cost.

[ANHEMP]

I might take these second amendments arguments seriously if they were not so tilted and contrived at all levels of application. The fact that all NRA members are not getting active over the Philando Castile verdict is outrageous to me. I went to the NRA-ILA news site, and a search for Philando returns zero hits. They are absolutely unmoved. Come on!

NRA is a bunch of biased racist nut jobs.  I level them with the police unions.  They are single minded and dangerous and not looking out for the good of the country.  Unfortunately they are needed so things don't get worse than they are.  I joined when teh NY SAFE act was in teh works and they couldn't stop it even though 90% of the area of NY was against it.  NYC and Albany county pushed the darn law thru.

[ANHEMP]

I didn't say there wasn't a cost. It's just not what your anti gun article or you play it out to be.  I'm trying to show the TRUE sacrifice.  Minus all your additions.  Funny how you realize that drug laws don't deter the # of drugs but you think that if there wasn't a 2nd amendment there wouldn't be any guns.  Places without the 2nd amendment still have some gun violence and deaths.  You can't blame 100% of that one the 2nd amendment.  this logically follows.  Now you just have to figure out how much does come from us having the 2nd amendment.  There are numerous gun laws(against the 2nd) and the places with the most gun laws have the highest violence rates.  It's not the 2nd amendment thats responsible for almost all of this!

 

I'm a dog. I can hear the dog whistles.

 

Just keep minimizing the sacrifice ad making excuses to feel better.

 

There is a cost.

[+Malamute]

I didn't say there wasn't a cost. 

 

Sheesh,... all that to agree with me. 

 

 There are numerous gun laws(against the 2nd) and the places with the most gun laws have the highest violence rates. 

 

 

What are you talking about?  Again, just talking out your booty.  That is false.

 

Firearm Death Rate by State and 100,000 population (2015):

 

1) Alaska-           23.4

2) Louisiana-       20.4 

3) Alabama-        19.6

4) Mississippi-     19.6

5) Wyoming-       19.6

6) Montana-        19.2

7) New Mexico-   18.6

8) Missouri-         18.1

9) Oklahoma-      18.0

10) South Carolina- 17.3

11) Arkansas-      16.9

12) Tennessee-   16.0

13) Kentucky-      15.2

14) Nevada-         14.9

15) Idaho-            14.7

16) Georgia-        14.1

17) West Virginia- 14.0

18) Arizona-         13.8

19) North Dakota- 12.8

20) Utah-              12.8

 

Violence Death Rate by State(2014):

 

1) District of Columbia

2) Louisiana

3) Mississippi

4) Alabama

5) Arkansas

6) South Carolina

7) Missouri

8) New Mexico

9) Maryland

10) Delaware

[+Malamute]

Oh, just because I assume people want to know.

 

Michigan is 28th for firearm death rate and 14th for violence death rate.

[Restorium2]

Where's your data that "accidents" happen often.   

Many happen every single day. You have not seen them in your life? I've seen them my whole life. In my world, most people have a better chance getting shot by accident than by violence. I know quite a few people who got shot by accident and very few that got shot on purpose. That's where the phrase comes from; You are going to shoot your dink off.

 

 

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/accidental-shooting

[ANHEMP]

http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2017/02/daily-chart-3

 

These areas contain 15% of the country’s population and around 36% of its murder victims.

 

Cities!  Cities have stricter gun laws than the states and the cities have 2x the gun violence rate!

 

And Alaska is at the top because of SUICIDES!!!!  Start taking the suicide rate away from the gun violence against another person and you'll see a different picture.  Take the wealth of each state and job opportunity and you'll start seeing a correlation.  Still trying with the smoke and mirrors mal.  C'mon you are smarter than this.

 

And to agree with you I'd have to say that all 7k deaths are the cost of the 2nd amendment.  Which would be a flat out lie.  That is what you are trying to report that all tehse deaths are from an amendment not peoples( politicians) decisions.  38% from suicide and 10% from teh cops and none of that has to do with the 2nd amendment.  Most of the rest can be chalked up to drugs/gangs and alcohol, which have nothing to do with the 2nd amendment.  Still don't agree with you.  Sorry Mal you are still wrong.

 

And if DC was considered a state in teh first gun violence chart it's outpace Alaska even though it has much stricter gun laws.

 

District of Columbia 670,377 162

24.2

Sheesh,... all that to agree with me. 

 

 

What are you talking about?  Again, just talking out your booty.  That is false.

 

Firearm Death Rate by State and 100,000 population (2015):

 

1) Alaska-           23.4

2) Louisiana-       20.4 

3) Alabama-        19.6

4) Mississippi-     19.6

5) Wyoming-       19.6

6) Montana-        19.2

7) New Mexico-   18.6

8) Missouri-         18.1

9) Oklahoma-      18.0

10) South Carolina- 17.3

11) Arkansas-      16.9

12) Tennessee-   16.0

13) Kentucky-      15.2

14) Nevada-         14.9

15) Idaho-            14.7

16) Georgia-        14.1

17) West Virginia- 14.0

18) Arizona-         13.8

19) North Dakota- 12.8

20) Utah-              12.8

 

Violence Death Rate by State(2014):

 

1) District of Columbia

2) Louisiana

3) Mississippi

4) Alabama

5) Arkansas

6) South Carolina

7) Missouri

8) New Mexico

9) Maryland

10) Delaware

Edited June 22, 2017 by ANHEMP

[ANHEMP]

Oh, just because I assume people want to know.

 

Michigan is 28th for firearm death rate and 14th for violence death rate.

Yet DC has 4 times the deaths from guns and has tremendously strict gun laws!

 

If you really look thru the data you'll see that the gun violence rates have less to do with laws and more to do with society, opportunity, racism, etc.

Edited June 22, 2017 by ANHEMP

[Restorium2]

Where's your data that "accidents" happen often. 

I'm seeing that our biggest problem with gun accidents are the ostrich type gun owners that hide from the truth about how many gun accidents happen every day. Read down that list I posted. It's a tragic eye opener for you. 

Edited June 22, 2017 by Restorium2

[Restorium2]

Read the circumstances.

[ANHEMP]

See this is why I don't like this shiit at all.  First off, your just as likely to protect yourself with a gun as get shot accidentally!

Secondly you are MUCH more likely to shoot yourself or get shot by another person than have an accident and the child death rate from guns is nowhere near 7k a year according to your source as opposed to Mal. 

Many happen every single day. You have not seen them in your life? I've seen them my whole life. In my world, most people have a better chance getting shot by accident than by violence. I know quite a few people who got shot by accident and very few that got shot on purpose. That's where the phrase comes from; You are going to shoot your dink off.

 

 

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/accidental-shooting

[Restorium2]

The second amendment doesn't cause the slaughter. Irresponsible gun owners are the cause.

Exactly. People who think accidents are not happening. People who think it can't ever happen with their guns. People who ignore the huge personal losses every day.