Fear?

[bobandtorey]

I can't grow because of where i live but i do miss it and if we do get the S.C ruling saying it's now OK to grow i will do it 

[slider7]

Open your eyes, they are already here, already buying from growers, and patients cannot get enough of them!

 

 

 

 

Could one of the senior members here explain to me what the fervor against dispensaries is here? Surely you gentlemen don't truly believe the caregiver/patient position is sustainable? 

 

 

Marijuana is a commodity. People don't want to deal with you eccentric cultivators! : ) Why do you think McDonald's owns 1/4 of the countries finest real estate across our great nation? People love convenience, selection and love to be treated special. Driving over to your local hippies grow house and petting his cats listening to him rant about bud politics and energy crystals is not what 99.9999999999% of medical or casual users are going to end up gravitating towards. Bud shops don't have errands to run. The bud shop isn't going to ignore your texts because you don't feel like doing anything that day. 

 

 

The divide between the groups is seemingly childish to me. Are we so rash and frictional in this country that we have to bicker like so many Judeo-Christian secular groups? Don't we have the same goals here? We all share the same common ideal of marijuana being a beneficial thing to our society in many facets.

 

 

 

I've spent some time with learning about many of these operations, and safe to say, many of them i've had the pleasure to wait quite a bit to speak to anyone. These places are slammed every day they open the doors. This is what the people want. Pushing against it seems like trivial wind pissing in the direction of arrogant MMJ puritan ideals that honestly stem from years of counter-culture and paranoia generated by fringe criminal activity.

 

 

 

I'm not trying to offend anyone, I suppose it is possible I just don't understand the argument against these kinds of operations and medicine types. 

[slider7]

Also, I might add, I don't generally agree or disagree with supplying these places. It is scary enough going to see what kind of clones or seeds they have. 

Edited February 5, 2015 by slider7

[bobandtorey]

Thanks for your input most are not against them they fear they may get there grow rights taken away thats all 

[trichcycler]

"Driving over to your local hippies grow house and petting his cats listening to him rant about bud politics and energy crystals"

 

You should have said something, I could have expedited the process ya know. I don't get out much so when company

stops in I'm real friendly. 

 

Jokes aside(I don't have cats, nobody comes to my house, I do rant though.

anyways, where can I get those crystals man??

 

peace

[trichcycler]

Thanks for your input most are not against them they fear they may get there grow rights taken away thats all

How many years do dispensaries need to be flourishing in the open before

this fear is dispelled ? Like, in ten more years,20 years, if everything is still the same, will the "dispensaries are going to take our grow rights away" song still be sung I wonder?

 

Obviously some dispensaries have discovered how to operate safely with respect. some just cant get the swing of it is all?

[slider7]

As far as I see the current laws going, they are trying to empower growers by making it so dispensaries can't grow their own. People are obviously going to find ways around it (as I don't see that being a viable business model). Many CG's I know work full time or have some kind of side job. With direct market access like that, and rules defining it, I think even at the hobbyist level small time cultivators would do a lot better than right now, and everyone knows when the grower is happy, everyone is happy.

[GregS]

Could one of the senior members here explain to me what the fervor against dispensaries is here? Surely you gentlemen don't truly believe the caregiver/patient position is sustainable? 

 

 

Marijuana is a commodity. People don't want to deal with you eccentric cultivators! : ) Why do you think McDonald's owns 1/4 of the countries finest real estate across our great nation? People love convenience, selection and love to be treated special. Driving over to your local hippies grow house and petting his cats listening to him rant about bud politics and energy crystals is not what 99.9999999999% of medical or casual users are going to end up gravitating towards. Bud shops don't have errands to run. The bud shop isn't going to ignore your texts because you don't feel like doing anything that day. 

 

 

The divide between the groups is seemingly childish to me. Are we so rash and frictional in this country that we have to bicker like so many Judeo-Christian secular groups? Don't we have the same goals here? We all share the same common ideal of marijuana being a beneficial thing to our society in many facets.

 

 

 

I've spent some time with learning about many of these operations, and safe to say, many of them i've had the pleasure to wait quite a bit to speak to anyone. These places are slammed every day they open the doors. This is what the people want. Pushing against it seems like trivial wind pissing in the direction of arrogant MMJ puritan ideals that honestly stem from years of counter-culture and paranoia generated by fringe criminal activity.

 

 

 

I'm not trying to offend anyone, I suppose it is possible I just don't understand the argument against these kinds of operations and medicine types. 

Dispensary interests have made statements in government hearings and in the press to the effect that home growing is somehow unsafe and taking the position that it should be done away with. It should be apparent that we are their competition. Those statements brought out our disagreements. We will not stand for anyone taking away our grow rights.

[Restorium2]

Surely you gentlemen don't truly believe the caregiver/patient position is sustainable? 

 

The caregiver/patient scenario/relationship has been around since Jesus and before. Who are we to question it's longevity from this point forward? Don't get all wrapped up in the Act being the first instance of a caregiver serving a patient. It's been happening before the Act, since there were two humans on the Earth. 

[Restorium2]

Could one of the senior members here explain to me what the fervor against dispensaries is here?

 

They build dams and we bust em down. Dams for profit. They are lobbying the legislature to build a huge dam right now. One they can't make hold the flow but they are trying. If they can get their dam to hold for just an instant they make a fortune off of patients. 

[slider7]

 

 

The caregiver/patient scenario/relationship has been around since Jesus and before. Who are we to question it's longevity from this point forward? Don't get all wrapped up in the Act being the first instance of a caregiver serving a patient. It's been happening before the Act, since there were two humans on the Earth. 

 

 

Maybe I should illustrate my point.

 

 

 

Let us take into account the amount of Care givers vs the amount of patients. If the patients numbers were to swell without dispensaries, trying to allocate a caregiver for each person would be back breaking. I think the trend shows clearly on this site. There are plenty of care givers looking for new cards. Probably willing to give patients WAY better deals and access, yet the vast majority of these people get their card and just stroll down to the shop and pay 15-30/gram.

 

 

 

Actions are far louder than words, and these people are speaking with their wallets. They mostly don't want the intimate connection, or some professed marijuana healer. Give them 30 strains to google and a 22 year old kid to weight it out for them and they are satisfied. Most of these people were probably self medicating from the word go, putting a pretty shine on it and calling it medicine isn't going to make people inconvenience themselves for the sake of tradition, pure and simple.

 

 

 

 

So in essence, the fight against the dispensaries and resentment can also be directed at what seems to be the vast majority of card holders in Michigan. If we don't want to get wiped out, we have to assimilate to the consumer. Any who disagree with this lack the fundamental understanding of our capital driven society. It won't be the "drug dealer stores" taking away private grow ops, it will be big lobbying money from the entire industry to create a commercial license to operate their facilities to accommodate their customers. 

 

 

The only chance the private cultivator has is to either transition to commercial sales or we as a community must come together and try to make sure the laws prevent big business from steam rolling the private cultivator out of the picture.

 

 

 

 

Like it our not, if the private cultivation community doesn't start some serious collaboration, we won't have the funds to motivate politics towards our agenda. 

[Restorium2]

Let us take into account the amount of Care givers vs the amount of patients. If the patients numbers were to swell without dispensaries, trying to allocate a caregiver for each person would be back breaking. I think the trend shows clearly on this site. There are plenty of care givers looking for new cards. Probably willing to give patients WAY better deals and access, yet the vast majority of these people get their card and just stroll down to the shop and pay 15-30/gram.

 

You obviously would like to think so but it's not true in reality. 

[GregS]

Maybe I should illustrate my point.

 

 

 

Let us take into account the amount of Care givers vs the amount of patients. If the patients numbers were to swell without dispensaries, trying to allocate a caregiver for each person would be back breaking. I think the trend shows clearly on this site. There are plenty of care givers looking for new cards. Probably willing to give patients WAY better deals and access, yet the vast majority of these people get their card and just stroll down to the shop and pay 15-30/gram.

 

 

 

Actions are far louder than words, and these people are speaking with their wallets. They mostly don't want the intimate connection, or some professed marijuana healer. Give them 30 strains to google and a 22 year old kid to weight it out for them and they are satisfied. Most of these people were probably self medicating from the word go, putting a pretty shine on it and calling it medicine isn't going to make people inconvenience themselves for the sake of tradition, pure and simple.

 

 

 

 

So in essence, the fight against the dispensaries and resentment can also be directed at what seems to be the vast majority of card holders in Michigan. If we don't want to get wiped out, we have to assimilate to the consumer. Any who disagree with this lack the fundamental understanding of our capital driven society. It won't be the "drug dealer stores" taking away private grow ops, it will be big lobbying money from the entire industry to create a commercial license to operate their facilities to accommodate their customers. 

 

 

The only chance the private cultivator has is to either transition to commercial sales or we as a community must come together and try to make sure the laws prevent big business from steam rolling the private cultivator out of the picture.

 

 

 

 

Like it our not, if the private cultivation community doesn't start some serious collaboration, we won't have the funds to motivate politics towards our agenda. 

We will obviously agree to disagree. The community has stood down a number of efforts to diminish our rights, and we are presently engaged in doing just that. There are a number of heavy hitters who work on our behalf. If you have sources that support your statements, please do share.

[trichcycler]

my patients have told me of visiting the dispensary , until it was closed, or out of product, then they looked into meeting a stranger online who could supply/deliver the selections they request. I think patient like dispensaries, but not the cost of doing business there maybe. three dispensaries nearby sell only gear supplied to them by other growers for thought, and hate the idea of having to order from another state. I read of some big money attempting to weed out home growers, but I don't believe this is the

agenda of the clubs in existence today in MI. Of course that all could change with law and cash, and might not be good for home grows in the end. I don't think they will outlaw home grows, but perhaps the caregiver/patient process. I could see cash buying a grow your own, or buy from us scheme, but black market once again will even that out, until prices are driven down imo

[slider7]

 

 

I don't think this is true. The majority of cardholders are in patient/caregiver relationships and do not ever visit a dispensary.

Well then it is all assumptions until we have hard facts, but if you actually go and step foot in these places for more than an hour, I haven't once seen low foot traffic. Until we have solid numbers these arguments are baseless, but we do have facts.

 

 

1. These places are doing quite well at the moment, as well as the business that service them (testing services, etc)

2 There are motions in the works to standardize dispensary regulation, meaning there is very solid effort behind it.

 

I'm not the enemy, I'm just stating the facts. Look at it from a new patients prospective

 

 

Caregiver - Find a personal connection or know one, or have to find one. That is a privilege to usually know beforehand. People are already weary of the whole deal, trying to find one online I'm sure is daunting. After securing one, you get to deal with that specific growers styles, strains, time frames and personality perks. Something happens to that one person and you are back to square one.

 

 

Dispensary - google "Dispensary, greentown MI". Plug it into your phone, jump in the car, sign a piece of paper and go check out an entire selection of multiple growers.

 

 

 

This isn't a conspiracy. It's the natural evolution of the market. 

 

 

 

Is there one of you that can claim that the move toward commercial licensing usually directly affects private non-commercial growers? 

 

 

Lets say a commercial grow license comes out to aid the supply demand these facilities need for their patients/clients. It means major perks and ability to create a stable economic growth. However, to recoup losses and help employ government offices to regulate the industry, the license is significant (six figures or heavy taxation). 

 

 

WELL THEN you have the private grower that can create a conglomerate of private growers to forgo this state tax and licensing requirements by playing plant count games. The people distributing will be beyond tighter sanctions on anything sold to a consumer, and pretty soon basement pot becomes just like basement hooch. Dangerous and highly illegal in the eyes of the state.

 

 

I feel its necessary to once again state the fact that I am not endorsing these things. I am laying out a very possible future that we have seen happen in other states already. I am advocating possibly fighting fire with fire. A MMMJ union of a sort. If the private advocates created a entity that could generate profit while delivering directly to the needs of the people we all care about, the medical community. If you guys are so terrified of the power these people garner behind the counter, then we should take the reigns and put our money where our mouth is.

 

 

Showing up pissed off to the polls isn't going to change anything. The younger generations don't care at all about these things, and many of the older generation voting are staunch conservatives. We simply cannot rely on the polls to secure our futures in the Michigan Marijuana Community. 

 

 

I realize it is a somewhat radical approach, primarily because of the tumultuous viewpoints towards the subject here!

 

 

 

This is all in theory, of course, but when I came across this place, the first thing that came to my mind was the real possibility of such an entity. The "drug dealer stores" are the Banks of America and Chase Bank, lets make a credit union owned by investors.   : D 

Edited February 5, 2015 by slider7

[trichcycler]

I cant help but to think of Jimmy Hoffa...

[Norby]

I don't think this is true. The majority of cardholders are in patient/caregiver relationships and do not ever visit a dispensary.

What????  I'm a caregiver for 5 and I go to dispensaries.  All my patients went to dispensaries before they were with me(even when they had caregivers) and there are always 2-3 other patients/caregivers there whenever I visit a dispensary.  And I've only hit a half dozen or more. 

Some sell clones and caregivers go there for them and testing and sampling and seeds.  Some caregivers don't make medibles or concentrates and patients go there for them and just get flowers from their caregivers and some patients don't have caregivers because they prefer the selection and store and can go to multiple.  One of my patients was low and low on cash and didn't want me to travel in the storm so he picked up a couple joints at the local dispensary.  I got my first seeds in Michigan from a dispensary, supplied myself with samples from the dispensaries, get my cannatonic #4 from dispensaries and have Perkins clones on order from a dispensary.  Maybe the people you know don't go but with the #'s there when I go there, i'd say that's wrong.

Not every caregiver makes medibles and concentrates or grow hi CBD meds or grow sativas(or even a strain their patient wants).  Maybe you are talking Detroit or the crappy ones.

Edited February 5, 2015 by Norby

[Norby]

The ones I go to are renovating.  They have 8 oz min. to sell to, was 1/4lb when I took in my first tests and I watch the menus for cannatonic, they sell out quick.  They said 8 oz. min because they have people driving from all over and they don't want to run out in a day and not have it when people come out.  There are 3 more that opened around here in the last 2 months.

  Maybe we go to different places. There are hundreds and i only got to about 6 and none in the D, all in A2, Lansing and Flint. I see a completely different story though.  Just like I see grow stores shutting down around me but others think they are going strong.

[t-pain]

just to answer your question, based on the statistics we've dug up, 

http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/topic/44629-new-stats-registry-id-cards-issued-for-fiscal-year-2014/

 

since we dont have total complete numbers anymore, heres a number from 1/31/2013 in the web archive:

http://web.archive.org/web/20130228081624/http://www.michigan.gov/lara/0,4601,7-154-35299_63294_63303_51869---,00.html

 

 

Program Statistics as of 1/31/2013:
126,739 active registered qualified patients.
26,404 active registered primary caregivers.

 

126739 patients / by 26404 caregivers = 4.799 patients per caregiver.

 

there are exactly enough caregivers for the patients in the program.

which is i think what zap was saying.

 

and the other opinion from zap about dispensaries treading water makes sense in context.

where the context is the "dispensaries" that are not open yet to more than the 5 patients they are connected to.

 

there are a few of those kinds of "dispensaries" that arent really open yet, but they are paying rent and have fixed up a building and are getting ready for the bill to pass. realize that they did this last year, in anticipation of 4271, which was introduced in like march? so they have been paying rent for almost a year now in anticipation of opening. i know these businesses exist now because i've seen them in some of the city council meeting minutes for various cities. where the operators and attorneys for the operators are asking the city council for ordinances, zoning, permits, etc. all in anticipation for 4271.

 

obviously norby is talking about the dispensaries that are open now. so in a sense you are both right because you are talking about different dispensaries.

 

now where zap gets his info about patients mostly getting meds from caregiver relationships i dunno.

nor do i know where norby gets his info about patients mostly getting meds from dispensaries.

 

everything on craigslist is cg>pt. dispensaries arent advertising much yet.

most of the cases in court are cg+pt cases.

 

 

i think most patients get meds by growing themselves, stuffing both of your guesses! haha

i think LARA said there were ~20,000 patients in the program who were getting the reduced SSI fee (before they killed the reduced fee). do you think those 20,000 patients were buying from dispensaries or caregivers or growing their own?

 

it would be interesting to see some statistics , get some anonymous survey of MMMP going.

Edited February 5, 2015 by t-pain

[t-pain]

it also helps we dont know the current number of dispensaries. anyone took a total from weedmaps for michigan ?

[trichcycler]

The ones I go to are renovating.  They have 8 oz min. to sell to, was 1/4lb when I took in my first tests and I watch the menus for cannatonic, they sell out quick.  They said 8 oz. min because they have people driving from all over and they don't want to run out in a day and not have it when people come out.  There are 3 more that opened around here in the last 2 months.

  Maybe we go to different places. There are hundreds and i only got to about 6 and none in the D, all in A2, Lansing and Flint. I see a completely different story though.  Just like I see grow stores shutting down around me but others think they are going strong.

close to galacticgardens?

[trichcycler]

no way to tell if a patient is growing for themselves or not. I'm glad that one is not available. A "patient" registration is safer than a "caregiver" registration I think.

[slider7]

 

 

In some of your posts you seem not to understand the issue, but in others you seem to have a great grasp.

 

 

Oh, trust me, I don't claim to be the greenest leaf on the bush.

 

 

 

 

Regardless of whether or not the dispensary contingent is trustworthy, we know the legislators they must appeal to are not.

 

Indeed. Sadly, everyone is forced to deal with those regretful creatures. 

 

 

The point being there seems to be a large number of people that enjoy the convenience of these facilities. I think any sort of adaption toward that would be a financially sound idea. Taking a market share of Michigan means you would be able to influence the market. The facility(s) would create jobs, take profits and and pay expenses then be used to help members on fixed incomes and other people in need, the facility could educate and influence a positive attitude toward MMJ in general. Money could be reserved for criminal defense for compliant members being attack by state or federal thugs.

 

 

 

The problems would be obviously the grey area's and legal troubles, but I suppose being shut down by the police would probably be the best thing for the facility, since it would gain media coverage have funds to fight it in court. 

[greenleaf]

Bud shops don't have errands to run. The bud shop isn't going to ignore your texts because you don't feel like doing anything that day. 

 

 

Boom.  There it is.

[Norby]

Everything is relative, I suppose. But this effort described by slider7 as 

 

 

 

Wouldn't be happening at all if they could operate freely now.

I don't know what your talking about now.