Caregiver To Caregiver To Patient Transfers

[Restorium2]

The first question is a GREAT ONE! I would love to sit down and talk to each owner and understand WHY they are doing what they do. Is it money? Is it access? Is it both? The people working there. I would love to see it legitimized so no one risks jail for helping people.

 

Patients are not asking this of their caregivers I think. The current "provisioning centers" are there of their own accord, no patients "forced" them to take the chance they do every minute of every day. Is there cause noble or greedy? Another great question.

They ALL do it for the money no matter what they tell you.

 

They are ALL open because it's hard to make a case that they are selling illegally. ALL of them. Just ask a prosecutor. If you understand what LEO has to do to make a case against a smart dispensary operation then you understand why they are open.

[Restorium2]

I think your version of "reality" is yours. I think you are terrible at sorting through the BS but I would never deign to tell you what to do. That is a major difference between us and our philosophical approach in life. You think your intelligence means you can tell everyone else what to do because they aren't as super-smart as you. I feel my intelligence is an obligation to understand why the less-informed appear that way to me. To each their own and you are obviously committed to your tact.

My version of reality has been correct here since '08. You have a little less experience than I do so you see things differently. If you pay attention long enough you will be where I'm at.

[YesMichigan]

My version of reality has been correct here since '08. You have a little less experience than I do so you see things differently. If you pay attention long enough you will be where I'm at.

 

I will seek counseling immediately if megalomania ever claims me in such a manner.

[Restorium2]

I will seek counseling immediately if megalomania ever claims me in such a manner.

You will do much better not making this personal. 

[YesMichigan]

You will do much better not making this personal. 

 

You obviously don't read what you type when it comes to your advice. You've stated your position, I adamantly disagree. You engage in ad-hominem attack to refute my points regarding compassionate access to medicinal marijuana, which is occurring today, by trying to say my point is invalid because I'm living in a "fairy tale" or "you've not been around long enough" or "be better at sorting through bs". I won't take any advice from you as it pertains to discourse or debate because you do neither well. If you want to use backhanded insults don't be surprised others are just as smart and aware as you.

 

If you want to keep pounding sand you can. In the meantime plenty of people are about to spend their hard-earned cash at a dispensary so they can acquire medicine for their pain. You oppose that. I oppose your opposition. What is there to argue about?

[Restorium2]

You obviously don't read what you type when it comes to your advice. You've stated your position, I adamantly disagree. You engage in ad-hominem attack to refute my points regarding compassionate access to medicinal marijuana, which is occurring today, by trying to say my point is invalid because I'm living in a "fairy tale" or "you've not been around long enough" or "be better at sorting through bs". I won't take any advice from you as it pertains to discourse or debate because you do neither well. If you want to use backhanded insults don't be surprised others are just as smart and aware as you.

 

If you want to keep pounding sand you can. In the meantime plenty of people are about to spend their hard-earned cash at a dispensary so they can acquire medicine for their pain. You oppose that. I oppose your opposition. What is there to argue about?

You do not understand my position on dispensaries either. The ONLY things I have against them is that they lie profusely about caregivers and they are gambling away my grow rights. Like I said, watch someone go around the track for years and you know how they drive. I'm consistent and have a very simple agenda: keeping my grow rights and keep the information as real as I can for readers here. I may fail at times but I hammer away until I get it right every single day I can since I joined here as the 7th member in '08.

[YesMichigan]

You do not understand my position on dispensaries either. The ONLY things I have against them is that they lie profusely about caregivers and they are gambling away my grow rights. Like I said, watch someone go around the track for years and you know how they drive. I'm consistent and have a very simple agenda: keeping my grow rights and keep the information as real as I can for readers here. I may fail at times but I hammer away until I get it right every single day I can since I joined here as the 7th member in '08.

 

Now we're back to discourse. Solid post even if I don't agree on all points.

 

I contend they aren't gambling with your rights; they are gambling with their personal freedom just as many caregivers are today. There are enough stories here that illustrate some of the "legitimate" five patient growers are doing the same as the dispensaries, they just aren't as accessible to the masses.

 

We disagree on observation and interpretation being a tool of confidence when predicting behavior. My time counseling others leads me to a different conclusion than you. That's okay.

 

I want grow rights for all patients and their caregivers. I want access for all. I want access to all strains for all. I want a catalog where you can purchase and grow the medicine YOUR specific patients require - and if you grow that strain better than anyone then I hope it is at my local provisioning center to provide me benefit also. The best caregivers already have five patients so why should new patients be denied the finest medicinal options? Your system has them searching Craigslist for a caregiver not nearly as qualified as you.

[Restorium2]

I contend they aren't gambling with your rights;

 

I know for a fact they are. It's a known fact. That's what I meant about what you know and what I know. That's what is the disconnect here. Not anything personal. It's the facts you don't know because you haven't been involved in some of it. They can talk to you until they are blue in the face and that doesn't change what has been actually happening. They are gambling with my grow rights. 

Edited February 6, 2015 by Restorium2

[YesMichigan]

I contend they aren't gambling with your rights;

 

I know for a fact they are. It's a known fact. That's what I meant about what you know and what I know. That's what is the disconnect here. Not anything personal. It's the facts you don't know because you haven't be involved in some of it. They can talk to you until they are blue in the face and that doesn't change what has been actually happening. They are gambling with my grow rights. 

 

Give me the piece of evidence that substantiates the "Fact" please. If it is not a hypothesis then you will have no problem illustrating concisely why a dispensary on 8 mile is more damaging to your grow rights than anyone else in violation of the MMMA today. I'm interested to read and will give you every chance to change my mind with evidence.

 

I contend your narrow focus on this issue clouds your objectivity because this is just another political football in Lansing and Washington. Your passion on the subject creates a bias when ascertaining the "intent" of others. But that's why it is called "your perception" and I fully defend your right to it.

 

I agree that you have much more at stake in this than me. Then again, back in 2008 I knew they would do all they could to kill home grow once the rich decided to make money by producing instead of arresting which is why I have never chosen to go long on marijuana as an industry. I'm more cynical than you in this regard when it comes to politics.

[Natesilver]

The terminology of donation vs sale is irrelevant. It is the conditions of the transfer that ultimately determine legality.

[Restorium2]

They are gambling with my grow rights and they HOPE I lose them because then they have a monopoly.  They are bargaining with my grow rights and offering them as their only valuable colateral to law enforcement, their only bargaining chip with the opposition that runs the legislature. Heck, the main legislator in charge of the bill has said that openly to the press. A vote for dispensaries is a vote against home growing. Did you read that quote?

[YesMichigan]

You will never get what you say you want by asking Republican legislators for it. They are beholden to the police.

 

Could not agree more! I feel the same about Democrats (Lorretta Lynch disgusts me and anyone who would appoint her obviously wants more marijuana arrests).

 

I was hoping to read your take on Representative Callton in the Green Trees thread. I liked much of what he had to say. He fell apart once off script though. The Republican fear-mongering just can't handle a moment of "freelance" before they start with the hysteria.

[Restorium2]

A vote for dispensaries is a vote against home growing.

 

Representative Callton

Edited February 6, 2015 by Restorium2

[Restorium2]

You see how open and basic this really is? He actually spelled it out for us and I do thank him for that moment of clarity. 

[YesMichigan]

They are gambling with my grow rights and they HOPE I lose them because then they have a monopoly.  They are bargaining with my grow rights and offering them as their only valuable colateral to law enforcement, their only bargaining chip with the opposition that runs the legislature. Heck, the main legislator in charge of the bill has said that openly to the press. A vote for dispensaries is a vote against home growing. Did you read that quote?

 

Who is the main legislator that you refer to? Mike Callton? I would like to see the quote. I know other bills are being written but 4271 would make it possible for caregivers to sell their overages to the "provisioning centers". People like you could actually have a legitimate business and large grows could be kept in check through free-market economics.

 

I have read 4271 a few times but won't pretend to know it forward and backward. Please post the phrase that you see eliminating home growing or that shows Representative Callton is lying when he says it does not promote a central grow model. There is some disturbing language because it seeks to redefine the MMMA (backdoor transportation clauses and the like) and I would like to see your direct issue with it.

[YesMichigan]

A vote for dispensaries is a vote against home growing.

 

Representative Callton

 

Customary to provide the link so a person can read the quote in context. Please.

[Restorium2]

Customary to provide the link so a person can read the quote in context. Please.

Take my word for it or search. It's common knowledge around here. Check Mlive. Last time someone asked me to prove it here it took me a half an hour to find it. I'm not going to do that again. It's here on this site at least half a dozen times already. It's unfortunate you just don't take me at my word. Maybe after you don't catch me lying for 7 years you will not need a link. 

[YesMichigan]

It is in the paid archive now, but I believe this was the article:

 

http://www.freep.com/article/20140203/NEWS06/302030014/medical-marijuana-bills-stall-Michigan-Senate

 

 

 

http://thecompassionchronicles.com/2014/02/03/senator-i-will-sit-on-michigans-pro-marijuana-bills/

 

Thank you!

 

“By not voting for the dispensary bill, you’re saying it’s OK to have people growing their own in communities,” Callton told the Free Press. In actuality, when 63% of Michiganders voted for the MMA in 2008 they approved growing in their own communities. Callton’s Provisioning Centers Act is dependent upon caregiver cultivation of marijuana, which for five years has been primarily accomplished in gardens located in residential districts across the state. At the high point, more than 50,000 caregivers and 120,000 patients were licensed to grow cannabis in the state.

 

Detroit attorney Matthew Abel was also quoted by the Free Press. He said: “Every day that’s going by is hurting people who don’t have access to what they need… But what’s happening is most people are doing what they need to do to get their medicine, and by continuing the prohibition on dispensaries, we’re encouraging the continuation of the black market.”

 

Article was even written by Rick Thompson. I don't see the "Fact" in there. I read a proponent of the MMMA advocating advancement of provisioning centers just as I do.

[t-pain]

“By not voting for the dispensary bill, you’re saying it’s OK to have people growing their own in communities,” Callton told the Free Press. 

 

is in the article by rick thompson that you linked to and quoted from.

[phaquetoo]

wow im glad I read all I didnt read last time before I replyed!  Now after reading all in this thread I dont feel the need to reply, we have both views now we only need to choose the one we believe in, I will go with the law as written and voted on by the people!

 

Peace

[Restorium2]

“By not voting for the dispensary bill, you’re saying it’s OK to have people growing their own in communities,” Callton told the Free Press. 

 

is in the article by rick thompson that you linked to and quoted from.

Thanks t.

 

Pretty darn clear and it fits perfectly with who he is bargaining with; Law Enforcement. He has to give them something to get pot stores. There is nothing else to bargain with than our grow rights so that's what he places on the table to bargain with. And when the dispensaries would make a lot more profit if they grew and sold it's a no brainer that they don't give a rats arse if we lose our grow rights. 

[Highlander]

4. Protections for the Medical Use of Marihuana.

Section 4.

(e) A registered primary caregiver may receive compensation for costs associated with assisting a registered qualifying patient in the medical use of marihuana. Any such compensation shall not constitute the sale of controlled substances.

Sec4(e) states very clearly care givers can receive compensation from " A REGISTERED QUALIFYING PATIENT" it does not dictate that that patient has to be your patient. Again most out there can't afford to grow their own meds and need access. Why as caregivers should we not be allowed to help those in need. It says in black and white. "A REGISTERED QUALIFYING PATIENT"

You are confusing the meaning of the word "a" with the meaning of the word "any." This has already been decided by the courts. "A patient" doesn't mean " any patient." 4e isn't an island unto itself. Section 4 protects a CG who transfers to a patient he is connected to through the registry. 4e allows compensation. It doesn't allow any CG to transfer to any patient.

 

You can help all the people you want. Help five at a time with cannabis. If you are still feeling generous, volunteer at a soup kitchen. You get the same good feelings and aren't risking a felony.

[Highlander]

I'm saying; for all the cardholder stones that get busted in a day "donation" works for me if it is a loophole that keeps the doors open for today's "grey market provisioning centers" in communities that are sympathetic to the needs of medical marijuana card holders.

It isn't a loophole. A loophole is a narrow opening in a law that you can sneak through safely. "Donation" is simply a poor and feeble attempt to define an action for something other than what it is. It isn't a loophole. It is a noose.

[Restorium2]

“By not voting for the dispensary bill, you’re saying it’s OK to have people growing their own in communities,” Callton told the Free Press. 

 

is in the article by rick thompson that you linked to and quoted from.

How can someone read this and quote it, blow right past the threat to grow rights in communities, then call someone else out for quoting the same piece? I just don't know how that happens.

Edited February 6, 2015 by Restorium2

[Restorium2]

Customary to provide the link so a person can read the quote in context. Please.