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Caregiver To Caregiver To Patient Transfers

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You are advocating opposition to bills that will increase access. You are advocating the dispensaries operating today be shut down because they are outside of the law. You toss around cheap insults all the time so your position on that is insignificant to me.

 

Most of your posts are conjecture lacking in support. You have no credibility or authority to me, most of what you say I just shake my head much as I'm sure you do with me.

No. I just want to keep my grow rights and they are being used as a bargaining chip for something no one has any idea how it will turn out. Keep in mind that LEO is running the legislature right now and they get to make the wording for the bill. It's just that simple. This is all fact.

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We are talking about what is and isn't legal.  The MMMA doesn't say a thing about compassion.  Compassion has nothing to do with what the current state of the law is.  It may drive improvements to the law, but compassion isn't required for a person to be protected by the law, and being compassionate doesn't make you more protected.

 

Compassion is central to the Act to me. If it isn't for you then that is your call. Compassion is the heart of the Act for many in the community who took it as a cause to help those in need, be it themselves or their loved ones. Compassion is needed when a parent jumps through hoops to help their autistic child even when CPS wants to take custody of the child. Compassion will allow opponents of dispensaries to see the Act provided for it by specifying the transactions be among people who are licensed. Caregivers and Patients.

 

Current state of the law. Yes, you and I agree and I like the way you think.

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Im not trying to open a provision center. I just want to be able to off overages to these 15 legal provision centers in my city and 30+ In my county. We need a CLEAR definition of our laws. In my opinion which is just my opinion. The supreme court McQueen ruling needs be overturned and caregivers allowed to make compensation by way of provision centers. I'm truly not in this for the big money but to help those in need. Other wise I would pay the $5000 a year to own and operate a provision center in flint. LEGALLY it was left up to the municipality to govern provision centers right. Why are our rights being dictated by the uniformed.

When law enforcement isn't writing these bills then we can get a little something like that. Our rights are being dictated by the folks we voted in and they are beholding to law enforcement. Always start there and your ideas will follow a straight course to the reality of our situation.  We are so lucky to even have our grow rights. Thank your lucky stars to even be a legal grower.

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Compassion is central to the Act to me. If it isn't for you then that is your call. Compassion is the heart of the Act for many in the community who took it as a cause to help those in need, be it themselves or their loved ones. Compassion is needed when a parent jumps through hoops to help their autistic child even when CPS wants to take custody of the child. Compassion will allow opponents of dispensaries to see the Act provided for it by specifying the transactions be among people who are licensed. Caregivers and Patients.

 

Current state of the law. Yes, you and I agree and I like the way you think.

Listen dude, compassion started for us back in late '08. We gave a TON of our time then and now. Who are you to question our compassion at this point? Compassion isn't part of the bad system we created in our government. There's nothing of compassion there. It's stone cold.

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No. I just want to keep my grow rights and they are being used as a bargaining chip for something no one has any idea how it will turn out. Keep in mind that LEO is running the legislature right now and they get to make the wording for the bill. It's just that simple. This is all fact.

 

That was my point, apologies if it was obfuscated with other rhetoric. Your agenda is your grow rights and (I'll add for you) your PATIENT'S rights. I have no doubt you grow a product that is superior to most others. I've read your thoughts and I know you take it extremely seriously. You (and a few others here) are exactly the people I want growing for the Provisioning Center. I have NO WAY to legally obtain the medicine you create today and that sucks.

 

It isn't "fact" that LEO is running legislature. It is fact that LEO's hand has grown FAR too large in the process and the voters need to stop voting for letters and start voting for people whose positions are aligned to their own. Or perhaps they already are...That's what scares you and I the most.

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Listen dude, compassion started for us back in late '08. We gave a TON of our time then and now. Who are you to question our compassion at this point? Compassion isn't part of the bad system we created in our government. There's nothing of compassion there. It's stone cold.

 

Don't use "our" when I have only referenced you "dude".

 

Compassion created this Act, I lobbied in 2008 even though I knew I couldn't participate. If you got "compassionate" in 2008 you were a few decades after me so I have more experience and can teach you.

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So does your dispensary say "Sale" or "Donation"?

 

Obviously some "idiot" attorney advised them to do that. That idiot attorney even got paid to dispense the advice. To what end? I don't know, I don't own or work in a dispensary. You obviously missed the part where I indicated it is based on the permissiveness of LEO in the communities where the dispensaries exist.

 

 

 

I did like this post. You've made me see that Prosecutors see dispensaries as legal so maybe 4271 isn't needed. I'll have to figure out how to convince the Supreme Court of what you seem to think the Prosecutors know.

 

I think you are confusing a prosecutor who tolerates a dispensary with a prosecutor who thinks dispensaries are legal.  David Leyton, Genesee County PA, is probably one of, if not the most tolerant PA in the state.

 

Here is what he said about the legality of dispensaries:

 

Genesee County Prosecutor David Leyton said that many prosecutors around the state already took the position that dispensaries are illegal prior to the court’s ruling.

“It just confirms what many prosecutors already knew,” said Leyton. “I always thought it was quite clear.”

 

Here is what he said about closing them down:

 

“If police bring a warrant, we’ll prosecute,” said Leyton.

 

http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2013/02/michigan_supreme_court_medical.html

 

So we have a PA who was convinced that dispensaries were not legal from the beginning, and we have yet to see a single dispensary raid in Genesee County, despite that there are many in operation even today. 

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That was my point, apologies if it was obfuscated with other rhetoric. Your agenda is your grow rights and (I'll add for you) your PATIENT'S rights. I have no doubt you grow a product that is superior to most others. I've read your thoughts and I know you take it extremely seriously. You (and a few others here) are exactly the people I want growing for the Provisioning Center. I have NO WAY to legally obtain the medicine you create today and that sucks.

 

It isn't "fact" that LEO is running legislature. It is fact that LEO's hand has grown FAR too large in the process and the voters need to stop voting for letters and start voting for people whose positions are aligned to their own. Or perhaps they already are...That's what scares you and I the most.

I have heard the bill sponsor diss my grow. I have heard the dispensary owners diss my grow. I know how much more a dispensary would make if they grow their own. There's nothing else to add to the equation to understand the intent of the people in charge of this bill mess.

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I think you are confusing a prosecutor who tolerates a dispensary with a prosecutor who thinks dispensaries are legal.  David Leyton, Genesee County PA, is probably one of, if not the most tolerant PA in the state.

 

Here is what he said about the legality of dispensaries:

 

Genesee County Prosecutor David Leyton said that many prosecutors around the state already took the position that dispensaries are illegal prior to the court’s ruling.

“It just confirms what many prosecutors already knew,” said Leyton. “I always thought it was quite clear.”

 

Here is what he said about closing them down:

 

“If police bring a warrant, we’ll prosecute,” said Leyton.

 

http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2013/02/michigan_supreme_court_medical.html

 

So we have a PA who was convinced that dispensaries were not legal from the beginning, and we have yet to see a single dispensary raid in Genesee County, despite that there are many in operation even today. 

 

Didn't you prove my point with this? I couldn't have researched it and outlined it better. Well done.

 

Dispensaries are not legal today, prosecutors could shut them down but it is being done on a local level dependent on regional factors as opposed to State mandates.

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MICHIGAN MEDICAL MARIHUANA ACT (EXCERPT)

Initiated Law 1 of 2008

 

333.26422 Findings, declaration.

 

 

2. Findings.

Sec. 2. The people of the State of Michigan find and declare that:

(a) Modern medical research, including as found by the National Academy of Sciences' Institute of Medicine in a March 1999 report, has discovered beneficial uses for marihuana in treating or alleviating the pain, nausea, and other symptoms associated with a variety of debilitating medical conditions.

(b) Data from the Federal Bureau of Investigation Uniform Crime Reports and the Compendium of Federal Justice Statistics show that approximately 99 out of every 100 marihuana arrests in the United States are made under state law, rather than under federal law. Consequently, changing state law will have the practical effect of protecting from arrest the vast majority of seriously ill people who have a medical need to use marihuana.

© Although federal law currently prohibits any use of marihuana except under very limited circumstances, states are not required to enforce federal law or prosecute people for engaging in activities prohibited by federal law. The laws of Alaska, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Maine, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon, Vermont, Rhode Island, and Washington do not penalize the medical use and cultivation of marihuana. Michigan joins in this effort for the health and welfare of its citizens.

 

I read a lot of "Compassion" in the "Findings" for the Act which are PART OF THE ACT!

 

 

You might infer "compassion" from the Findings, yes, but compassion has nothing to do with how the law is applied, which was my point.  "I was just trying to help people when I opened my dispensary" vs. "I was trying to get rid of overages"  - the law doesn't provide for different outcomes based on compassion or greed.

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With out provision centers there isn't a need to accept out of state qualified patient's medical marijuana cards. Why do we allow This if we're not allowed by law to transfer meds to them patients. They have the same right to quality meds as well as you do. As a registered caregiver through our state we should be allowed to make such transfers so long as it don't interfear with our own patient needs.

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Don't use "our" when I have only referenced you "dude".

 

Compassion created this Act, I lobbied in 2008 even though I knew I couldn't participate. If you got "compassionate" in 2008 you were a few decades after me so I have more experience and can teach you.

I was there when medical marijuana was legal in 1979. I was first challenged for my medical use in 1981. Been an advocate ever since.  Walking the walk. Creating a positive atmosphere around cannabis. What have you to teach me?

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I have heard the bill sponsor diss my grow. I have heard the dispensary owners diss my grow. I know how much more a dispensary would make if they grow their own. There's nothing else to add to the equation to understand the intent of the people in charge of this bill mess.

 

I agree with you completely here. 4271 doesn't do what you are afraid of but you know the NEXT bill will and I am not stupid or hypocritical enough to disagree with that. You have my PROMISE that I will stand arm in arm with you when they come for your growing rights. In the meantime I have to fight for access to medicinal marijuana for all people and not just those fortunate enough to be one of the first five to approach you or GM.

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With out provision centers there isn't a need to accept out of state qualified patient's medical marijuana cards. Why do we allow This if we're not allowed by law to transfer meds to them patients. They have the same right to quality meds as well as you do. As a registered caregiver through our state we should be allowed to make such transfers so long as it don't interfear with our own patient needs.

There are a lot of reasons to have dispensaries. We are not lacking reasons. We are lacking the political position to better ourselves. 

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Didn't you prove my point with this? I couldn't have researched it and outlined it better. Well done.

 

Dispensaries are not legal today, prosecutors could shut them down but it is being done on a local level dependent on regional factors as opposed to State mandates.

 

You said, "You've made me see that Prosecutors see dispensaries as legal so maybe 4271 isn't needed"

 

So I guess I don't know what your point is.

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I agree with you completely here. 4271 doesn't do what you are afraid of but you know the NEXT bill will and I am not stupid or hypocritical enough to disagree with that. You have my PROMISE that I will stand arm in arm with you when they come for your growing rights. In the meantime I have to fight for access to medicinal marijuana for all people and not just those fortunate enough to be one of the first five to approach you or GM.

Did you watch the evolution of a bill that got signed a 4:20 a.m.? Until you learn that history you do not understand any bill in front of you. You are showing that when you say you know any bill, including 4271. You watch intent of the sponsor and then you know which way a bill will be heading. You never know the wording just the politicians involved. You have to guess at the wording from intent of the people who influence the bill.

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You might infer "compassion" from the Findings, yes, but compassion has nothing to do with how the law is applied, which was my point.  "I was just trying to help people when I opened my dispensary" vs. "I was trying to get rid of overages"  - the law doesn't provide for different outcomes based on compassion or greed.

 

And your point I concede to an extent (as my follow-up post addressed, sorry to put it in two). We come back to infractions and penalties. The law provides for compassion every time it drives past an open dispensary. Law actually mandates the Officer stop the "crimes" being committed. Instead we saw the story of the Prohibitionist who had to "Show" the police officers the dispensaries on 8 mile.

 

Is it Pollyanna to think some in LEO have hearts and are human? Probably. Which means we're back to Prosecutors having a hard time prosecuting the case which is where you and Restorium disagree because you illustrated a "reality" as you document it in Genesee County where they say they can and will if given opportunity.

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You said, "You've made me see that Prosecutors see dispensaries as legal so maybe 4271 isn't needed"

 

So I guess I don't know what your point is.

 

I was replying to Restorium not you with that. You and he disagree, hence the confusion.

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I was replying to Restorium not you with that. You and he disagree, hence the confusion.

Highlander was there with me/us from the beginning of the Act, we understand things and agree. Like I said, you are just lacking the experiences we have had or you would also agree with us. We have no evil agenda and know what has went down.

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I think you are confusing a prosecutor who tolerates a dispensary with a prosecutor who thinks dispensaries are legal.  David Leyton, Genesee County PA, is probably one of, if not the most tolerant PA in the state.

 

Here is what he said about the legality of dispensaries:

 

Genesee County Prosecutor David Leyton said that many prosecutors around the state already took the position that dispensaries are illegal prior to the court’s ruling.

“It just confirms what many prosecutors already knew,” said Leyton. “I always thought it was quite clear.”

 

Here is what he said about closing them down:[/fonts

Not true about genesee county. One dispensary was raided (5 star meds). They raided her club and all employees homes that worked there. Charges were dropped

 

“If police bring a warrant, we’ll prosecute,” said Leyton.

 

http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2013/02/michigan_supreme_court_medical.html

 

So we have a PA who was convinced that dispensaries were not legal from the beginning, and we have yet to see a single dispensary raid in Genesee County, despite that there are many in operation even today. 

Not true about genesee county. One dispensary was raided (5 star meds). They raided her club and all employees homes that worked there. Charges were dropped. Now we have provision centers popping up all over. We still have the only compassion club left in the state I believe.

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With out provision centers there isn't a need to accept out of state qualified patient's medical marijuana cards. Why do we allow This if we're not allowed by law to transfer meds to them patients. They have the same right to quality meds as well as you do. As a registered caregiver through our state we should be allowed to make such transfers so long as it don't interfear with our own patient needs.

 

Yes, we should be able to help out-of-state patients who visit.  But there is a huge valley being "should be" and "can."  Are we discussing what is legal or what we want to be legal?  If we want dispensaries to exist and CGs to safely be able to sell overages, this requires new legislation.  Many of us fear this new legislation because we have read and heard dispensary advocates say they want to do away with all of these "unsafe" home grows.

 

Too many people don't see writing on the wall.  A business is in business to make money.  Name one business that isn't.  If we allow dispensaries unlimited money-making opportunities, they will increase their own ability to lobby for legislative changes, local ordinances, etc. to squeeze out the home grows.  It is no different that the long-time local pharmacy closing down when Rite-Aid comes to town.  Case in point, the original "dispensary" bill (SB 660?), backed by a huge Canadian company and quickly passed by the Michigan legislature - near record time for any bill passing. 

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And your point I concede to an extent (as my follow-up post addressed, sorry to put it in two). We come back to infractions and penalties. The law provides for compassion every time it drives past an open dispensary. Law actually mandates the Officer stop the "crimes" being committed. Instead we saw the story of the Prohibitionist who had to "Show" the police officers the dispensaries on 8 mile.

 

Is it Pollyanna to think some in LEO have hearts and are human? Probably. Which means we're back to Prosecutors having a hard time prosecuting the case which is where you and Restorium disagree because you illustrated a "reality" as you document it in Genesee County where they say they can and will if given opportunity.

 

I do think many LEOs have a heart and are human.  I just can't imagine even a big-hearted LEO thinking "Oh, they are just taking donations; I'll let them be."  That was my original point.  I don't think using the term "donation" helps anyone at all, and, it likely hurts people, because some people think that calling a sale a "donation" provides a safety net and encourages them to do something they might otherwise never do.  Any discussion beyond that point is tangent to my original point.

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Not true about genesee county. One dispensary was raided (5 star meds). They raided her club and all employees homes that worked there. Charges were dropped. Now we have provision centers popping up all over. We still have the only compassion club left in the state I believe.

 

Fair enough.  I didn't see that.  Good to know.

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I do think many LEOs have a heart and are human.  I just can't imagine even a big-hearted LEO thinking "Oh, they are just taking donations; I'll let them be."  That was my original point.  I don't think using the term "donation" helps anyone at all, and, it likely hurts people, because some people think that calling a sale a "donation" provides a safety net and encourages them to do something they might otherwise never do.  Any discussion beyond that point is tangent to my original point.

 

Do you think the dispensaries came up with the idea or that they have been advised to use the phrase?

 

Do you agree that euphemisms are a major part of society and exceptionally pervasive in the legal community and thus not any more "dastardly" when used here?

 

LEO drives past the locations all day, you posted the evidence that they do. Why don't they arrest? I don't think "donation" has any impact (my point on page one) but they are all doing it and all got the same "advice" even if it was terrible advice.

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