Marijuana Quality Testing Going Mainstream‏

[Norby]

Probably a little overamped.  My dog is going in for surgery today and I can't be there. I have issues with that.

Not much off the mark though.

[Restorium2]

Probably a little overamped.  My dog is going in for surgery today and I can't be there. I have issues with that.

Not much off the mark though.

Best wishes to your dog.

[Norby]

She made it.  I have an easier time empathizing with animals than I do humans. Humans you can say something to and animals it's all about actions.  Not being able to be there until they put her under and be there when she woke up was killing me.  As you can probably see.

  Makes me react a little more when people try and spread misinformation about me whether it be from not knowing or not caring, all the same to me.  I work hard at being who I am so when people lie about it I take it personal.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Norby

[Restorium2]

She made it.  I have an easier time empathizing with animals than I do humans. Humans you can say something to and animals it's all about actions.  Not being able to be there until they put her under and be there when she woke up was killing me.  As you can probably see.

  Makes me react a little more when people try and spread misinformation about me whether it be from not knowing or not caring, all the same to me.

Great! I remember when you were naming that dog. 

[Wild Bill]

Name        Test Date     Δ9-THC       Δ8-THC    CBC        CBD          CBG       CBN         Total

OG Kush   2015-01-07 22.37 %      0.05 %     0.37 %     0.28 %      1.53 %    0.10 %     24.70 %

Bubba OG 2015-02-26 16.29 %      0.00 %    0.19 %    0.07 %        0.21 %    0.00 %    16.76 %

This is an example of one test for a Provisioning Center's site today. The test was done at Iron Labs. Iron Lab has a link to all the customers for whom they perform tests and authorize results to be revealed. Not going to link here because there is open hostility towards testing centers and I'm not gonna feed in to it like that.

 

So what do these results tell us? What do these numbers translate to as far as efficacy?

 

How large of a sample was used to test? One gram out of two kilos or one gram out of two ounces? Were the samples picked at random or cherry picked from the top cola? How would we know?

 

How much of a difference makes a difference? Is there any noticeable difference in effect between 16.29 and 22.37? Or .07 and .28?

 

Wouldn't I still have to sample each strain to see what worked best and if so what's the point of testing?

 

Not trying to be hostile, Just trying to understand how to interpret the information and how it would be beneficial to me.

 

As an added note I think the CBD furor is primarily about placating those who object to medicine that makes you feel good. (It might lead to more dangerous things, like dancing.) "Look it's good for kids and doesn't get you high!"

[YesMichigan]

So what do these results tell us? What do these numbers translate to as far as efficacy?

 

How large of a sample was used to test? One gram out of two kilos or one gram out of two ounces? Were the samples picked at random or cherry picked from the top cola? How would we know?

 

How much of a difference makes a difference? Is there any noticeable difference in effect between 16.29 and 22.37? Or .07 and .28?

 

Wouldn't I still have to sample each strain to see what worked best and if so what's the point of testing?

 

Not trying to be hostile, Just trying to understand how to interpret the information and how it would be beneficial to me.

 

As an added note I think the CBD furor is primarily about placating those who object to medicine that makes you feel good. (It might lead to more dangerous things, like dancing.) "Look it's good for kids and doesn't get you high!"

 

Is there a noticeable difference in the 16 to the 22 (I round off the numbers)? Great question since there is a $10 per gram price difference. Having sampled both I found the 22 (not the one listed) had a very quick and light headed effect that made me stupid quickly but lasted not so long. The 16 had no punch but lasted quite a while at a consistent tone.

 

That gives me something to think about as I ponder and reflect upon strains I've used in the past for relief and strains I would like to use in the future.

 

If people want less information or discount all information presented to them that is a personal choice and one I support. If people want the best data that can be generated given "State of the Practice" techniques and technology then I support that choice of an option. This discussion asked about "free testing" and if reasonable people would find benefit. Now it would appear "rationale" thought is to eschew all testing because there is no positive result possible. I don't subscribe to that theory but plenty obviously do and that is their right as humans.

[Norby]

So what do these results tell us? What do these numbers translate to as far as efficacy?

 

How large of a sample was used to test? One gram out of two kilos or one gram out of two ounces? Were the samples picked at random or cherry picked from the top cola? How would we know?

 

How much of a difference makes a difference? Is there any noticeable difference in effect between 16.29 and 22.37? Or .07 and .28?

 

Wouldn't I still have to sample each strain to see what worked best and if so what's the point of testing?

 

Not trying to be hostile, Just trying to understand how to interpret the information and how it would be beneficial to me.

 

As an added note I think the CBD furor is primarily about placating those who object to medicine that makes you feel good. (It might lead to more dangerous things, like dancing.) "Look it's good for kids and doesn't get you high!"

Depends on what your looking for?  The difference between a 12% THC and 24% THC is a bong hit more.  The terpenes are what is important to some.  If your looking to make oil to cure cancer you may want the highest THC strain you can get a hold of.  I'd then choose a 28% over a 12% if the cost plays out.  If the cheap hi THC buds were scrappy but coated it wouldn't matter because it was being made into oil.  It all depends, it's only a tool.

For me I use it to estimate the mg level in the caps I make.  If I test a top bud at 20% then I can estimate about 16-18% over the whole plant since I grow mostly tops.  This way I have a starting point for each patient for caps.  If it's 12% THC then I make 5/gram and if it's 20% I make 8-10/gram.  Some people get antsy with too much THC. 

For me I needed a certain amount of CBD to overcome anxiety and confusion for the amount I was taking for my stomach.  The anxiety was making things not get better for me.  When I added the CBD it helped not only by curing the candida but relieving the anxiety when I have to smoke a lot.  So i needed to test for CBD to get my mg close for the amount of pills I take a day.

I'd like to try some 50/50 THC/CBD strains to smoke if I can find some flavorful enough.  I won't know unless I test, where to start. 

There are reports for MS that say a 50/50 mic of THC and CBD did best in clinical trials.  While it may not work best for everyone, how can you explore that route if your guessing?  How can you recommend new strains which match that profile to see if your on to something or not?

Most people are on the MMJ program for pain relief.  For them the difference between a 12 and 20% is another hit if they get good relief from the THC alone and the rest is in the terpenes that aren't tested for.  For these people the test is useless and a lot of people who go to dispensaries don't care as it doesn't do them any real good for the cost of a test.

It's a tool, for me it tells me the approximate range my material falls in to.  It helps with dosing medibles and may help in the future with tracking what works for some of my harder patients. For me it's just more information to help guide me.  For me it doesn't have to be precise because the cannabinoids change over time and over the whole plant.  For me it's a starting point to learn.

[Norby]

Is there a noticeable difference in the 16 to the 22 (I round off the numbers)? Great question since there is a $10 per gram price difference. Having sampled both I found the 22 (not the one listed) had a very quick and light headed effect that made me stupid quickly but lasted not so long. The 16 had no punch but lasted quite a while at a consistent tone.

 

That gives me something to think about as I ponder and reflect upon strains I've used in the past for relief and strains I would like to use in the future.

 

If people want less information or discount all information presented to them that is a personal choice and one I support. If people want the best data that can be generated given "State of the Practice" techniques and technology then I support that choice of an option. This discussion asked about "free testing" and if reasonable people would find benefit. Now it would appear "rationale" thought is to eschew all testing because there is no positive result possible. I don't subscribe to that theory but plenty obviously do and that is their right as humans.

I agree, but saying there is no use because there is no use "to you" is disingenuous to the members here.  If all I heard is I have no use and this is why, no problem, but telling people there is no use when there obviously is is wrong.  There are parameters that it works for and some testing is just entertainment because of the technology, but again, saying it's all junk is wrong.

[t-pain]

The only reason the CBD mantra has become popular is:

1) It helps SOME people with epilepsy(not me).

2) It doesn't get you HIGH!(main reason)

 

It is just a destructive and false premise raised to make people think it is 'ok' because no euphoria occurs.  *shrug*.

 

 And yes, preachin to the choir, but it seems I have to. :-)

yes exactly.

just to repeat this, cbd and thc seperate or together is just like every single other epilepsy medication.

 

cbd or thc works for some people and not others.

topamax works for some people and not others.

Carbamazepine works for some people and not others.

 

having cbd, thc and all other possible cannabinoids and other epilepsy drugs available is most important for saving lives. cbd-only laws are disgusting, especially the ones that are useless to people and still make criminals out of people who buy cbd out of state or want to grow it themselves.

[+Malamute]

Thank you.

 

An over focus has been put on CBD thus creating a propaganda campaign which has passed cbd only laws in I believe 12 states so far.  Big picture problems here folks. ;-) None of those states allow you to produce it, buy it or possess it really though.  This is a direct result of an over zealous propaganda campaign by many many people for CBD only.

 

I may(don't) happen to think Tetrahydrocannabivarin to be the most important for people. Why? Because it is fast acting, stronger and can settle down panic attacks, stabilize anxiety disorders(Norby), deal with PTSD issues, reduce muscle tremors, soothe parkinsons shakes, possibly increase bone growth, reduces appetite, and etc.

 

And guess what? It is more potent than thc!!! :-) Quicker break down of carbon chains. only 3 instead of 5.

 

Want to know what strain to get? 

 

 Well without testing, I can tell you that the African landrace strains are typically the highest in THC-V. They suck to grow, are lankier than hell and produce not well and take a long time mature.  But I am sure if you look at heritage of modern strains, you can find some African strain crosses.  Look for the ones ya really don't want to grow, likely the highest THCV. ;-)  Not that a lesser amount of THCV matters when it is 3-4 puffs instead 2. :-)

 

Anyhow, I think I got lost and sidetracked.

 

 

post anyway.

[Norby]

Quantum Kush tests hi in THC, THCV and CBG.  CBG also is an anti anxiety.  TGA lists that it's no anxiety because of the hi CBG and THCV levels and has the test levels on his Quantum Kush on the TGA site.  Mine didn't turn out but 50% of the THC level that TGA Boasted on his site.  It was the highest CBG plant I've tested so far. He has a few strains that test hi in THCV.  I think Chernobyl and querkle also had hi THCV levels.  It's all on his site.

THCV isn't quantified in Iron Labs test.  I don't know if it's lumped in with THC or left out altogether.  I was a bit disappointed to find they didn't give THCV levels. It was the most relaxing/antianxiety strain I had till I ditched it.  I may pheno hunt thru another pack eventually though.  Just picked up some Quantum Kush that tested at 20% but I didn't ask about CBG levels.  Trying it tonite.

Thanks for the recommendation but i think i've licked the anxiety.  It was all candida and Vit b and D deficiency.  I've gained 5-7 lbs and have been lowering the CBD dosage and smoking sativas and hazes without much side effects.  Can drink 3 cups of coffee in a day without a tinge of anxiety.  I still have the "genes" but curing those 2 things made it like dropping weights I've been jogging with for 35 years.  I was able to eat today while my dog was in surgery, that never would've happened before.  And it was CBD's antifungal effect(coupled with the coconut oils antifungal effect) that cured the candida.  That's why I craved salad(active B vitamins) when I took the CBD caps.  The CBD didn't make me crave the right foods, it killed the candida overgrowth which was making me crave sugars and carbs(what it eats) and let my bodies real cravings come thru.  Neat stuff.

Always interested in hi anything(cbc,cbg,cbd,thcv,etc.) as it'd be nice to see what qualities you can discern from different things just that the anti anxieties seem to make me more sleepy now that I'm not anxious.  The less CBD I take the less that happens though.

Have the Malawi Gold.  Supposedly the most psychoactive though.  I don't know if that equates into calm.  Maybe a different part of Africa.  I think it differs from desert to forest to mtn as do the strain qualities.  Durban is supposed to be really racey and that's African, correct?

Edited March 6, 2015 by Norby

[garyfisher]

 Well without testing, I can tell you that the African landrace strains are typically the highest in THC-V.

So how are you so sure?  Without testing you wouldn't even know THC-V existed.

 

Look for African sativas. Lab results show that THCV is most abundant in sativas, particularly landrace strains from Africa. Durban Poison is one of the more common high-THCV strains, but other options can be found in the strain list below.

 

It seems you ARE right... and you found this out through scientists who tested the product (evil scum scientists) using their GC.  Wow.  I'm so glad we have both agreed that testing afterall IS an important piece of information.  I commend thee.  *claps hands*

 

 

 

 

and zap, why do you think testing terpene profile is some 'unproven' technology?  It's not new technology.  It's basic chromatography and has been used for over a millennia.   It doesn't change because it's a voodoo plant rather than any other plant.  People have consistently quantified essential oils in plants for a very long time.

 

None of you anti testers have any experience with quantitative analysis and it's obvious.  They don't call it ANALytical chemistry for nothing. 

 

Instead of trolling you should focus on facts rather than emotions.  If you want to ignore data, that is your choice but your reasoning behind so is foolish. "them lab testers are capitalist SCUM"  give me a fracking break!

 

It's no wonder all of the original core members have left this forum. 

Edited March 6, 2015 by garyfisher

[garyfisher]

It's not the same for everyone so you can't use a machine to place us in all in the same box. You can quantify all day long for what works for one patient and help that one patient. There's no universal ratio that fits everyone. Cause and effect do not repeat across the masses. It's a painstaking testing of each patient that works. Most of that testing does not involve machines. I say 'most' so there is some value to machine testing. Just not what it's made out to be by testing companies and their advocates. When testing starts to become a real help to real patients the real folks will get on board. Right now testing is a a patient's enemy because of the false/bad information being put out by labs

 

. Labs/testing are just a propaganda tool used by the opposition and falseprofiteers right now. 

No.  You are the one who has went to far and acting like a HO.  Lab testing is not just a propaganda tool.  How did Malmute figure out that THCV is badass for so many different things?  Oh thats right, he smelled a jar.  NO.  He knows this information because several labs have published the data and it has been verified.

 

 

Noone said you can group ALL people in the same group.  For example THCV cures everything for everyone.  No.  I never said that.  Noone on this forum is saying that.

 

However,  If you are a patient and have access to this information, you may be able to determine that super high THC strains with no CBD may work great for you.  Or you may decide that its the LOW thc strains that cure your ailment.  Hell, you may find that only THCV cures your ailment.  Now that you have this information, you can use it to make the best purchase.

 

[garyfisher]

to say this information is useless or novelty purpose only is quite ignorant.   and for the record, i give no fracks what iron labs is doing.  If people pay some scumbag lab to provide them with numbers and no raw data then they too are fools just like you resto.

Edited March 6, 2015 by garyfisher

[+Malamute]

It seems like if I just repost my previous posts it answers accusations and makes clear what I have already said...(maybe).

 

 

 Also, the research of medical uses is a far cry from supposed quality testing being done at these labs.  Different field. Different research. No comparison IMO.

 

 When people denigrate the plant as dangerous I lose respect. When people say they know people are getting very sick from marijuana, I ask for proof.  When people say growing marijuana in your home is absurd, dangerous and folly to expect to get quality medicine that is safe, I see only dollar signs in their eyes.  I see greed and cluelessness, and if not cluelessness, a destructive intent beyond my moral acceptability.

 

We do not expect every tomato to have the same amount of Vitamin C in it nor do I expect each batch of tomatoes to be tested for Vitamin C, Vitamin K, Molydenum, manganese and Vitamin A.  I may know that hothouse tomatoes have less of all those vitamins and nutrients and prefer organic, but I do not expect exact counts on each tomato I buy.

 

[+Malamute]

Actually, many of the dispensary interests who harped for testing because marijuana isn't safe, it can kill patients, basement grows are dangerous etc.  suddenly realized they were screwing themselves completely and the costs of doing all those tests was insane because of the size of testing batches in Michigan.(2.5-15 oz) 

 

The type of testing we are talking about can make sense in warehouse grows where SOP and pesticide standards are met prehand and then testing done across 5000 plants.

 

Anything beyond that is just insane.  General profiling is fine and dandy on a entertainment/interest reason. mandatory testing outside of safety(molds,fungs, etc) is a marketing tool only IMO.

 

Testing should be mandatory on packaged food items that correlate with current standards for all packaged food items.

 

[garyfisher]

I never advocated for mandatory testing. 

My only argument is that testing is more than meaningless number.  How did you learn about THCV again??? 

[garyfisher]

My other argument comes from working at a hydro store.  Have you seen the number of twats who come in and purchase every pesticide on the shelf to treat week 5-8 buds?  We have guys who buy mighty wash by the 5 gallons to treat week 8 flowers.  Avid, Imid, Floramite, all that bunny muffin is overused.  These are the greedy folks.

 

There is no way to tell by looking at the product on a shelf how many chemicals it has been laced with to kill pests.

[garyfisher]

I'm assuming many of the members on here, You, zap, resto, norby and I use high standards for growing cannabis.  (i dont spray plants with anything besides seaweed and organic teas that I make)

 

I know half of the other people out there are complete cheap @sses and only see $$$ when they are about to harvest.  It doesn't matter to them if they spray a crop with chemicals as long as they collect their check.  I've been to these houses and seen their nasty PM covered bud which they soaked in peroxide. You cannot ignore that this happens every day.  So the topic is much greater than a marketing scam by labs. 

[garyfisher]

Here is a quote from northernlabs:

 

Four samples of marijuana bought off the streets in Gaylord, Metro Detroit and Traverse City, however, contained pesticides upwards of 440 ppm of permethrin, 630 ppm of cypermethrin, and 485 ppm of beta-cyfluthrin. By comparison, for spinach, the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) sets residual limits of permethrin at 20 ppm and beta-cyfluthrin at 6 ppm. Tomaski said the USDA limit for cypermethrin is 14 ppm.

 

 

I'm so glad this information is totally useless except for entertainment only. *rolls eyes*

[+Malamute]

How did we ever survive for many many millennia without any deaths from marijuana...

 

 The sky is falling...

 

 And why would you sell those things then?  That makes zero sense.  You say Noone should use them, but I sold them. You say you have even specifically sold chemicals to people not licensed to buy them and who specifically said they would misuse them.  You sound like a real stand up person there. You say  I KNOW we need testing because I help people do things they shouldn't be, and I make money doing it!  Did you ever tell them not to do it? Is the store/employees telling these customers they should use the items? Little responsibility on the retail side?  Heh. 

 

 Anyhow, please just reread MY posts over and over if you like.  You seem to be attributing issues and traits and words to me that don't concur with what I have actually said.

[+Malamute]

Also, please reread the original article which started this thread. Most of this is addressed to this and those companies.

[+Malamute]

  For example THCV cures everything for everyone.  No.  I never said that.  Noone on this forum is saying that.

 

 

 

 First,  not everything is about you in this world. 

 

 Second, no one said you said it or that anyone said it.

 

 

 

I may (don't) happen to think Tetrahydrocannabivarin to be the most important for people.

 

 

 

I said it in comparison to the topic of CBD only propaganda and specifically noted,... I don't actually believe it.  I believe all are important, even the psychoactive ingredients and that the majority of health related issues helped by marijuana are not "cbd only" or cbd anything for that matter.  It is a piece of the puzzle(big view), it is a godsend for some people,  but an overzealous campaign for "CBD oil" by the RSO block, the phoenix tears block, the adolescent usage block(etc etc.) has resulted in impossible circumstances and zero help to people because of having such a narrow view.  It exists. It is rampant and I must smoosh it. :-)  As in, bust the reality bubble around it. 

 

Testing.  For large commercial/corporate products,  general safety testing, not beyond what is already currently accepted for other herbal products.  Mold. fungi, Best Practices etc.

 

 For commercial edible products. Previous testing plus large batch ecoli(plus a couple others) testing similar to all current testing standards for all commercial/corporate food products.

 

 Anything beyond that is for Entertainment/ Marketing/ scientific interest.

 

 Local small  growers/farmers/collectives who sell commercially are not subject to such testing.

 

Patients and Caregivers never ever test . As I said entertainment/interest.

 

Cannabinoid levels are scientific interest and marketing. 

 

 You may not realize, but these items we speak of will either be mandatory or not exist.  We will not be blessed with a middle ground.

 

Large commercial= simple basic safety testing. Period. Anything after that is boutique otherwise it will be mandatory.

[Norby]

 First,  not everything is about you in this world. 

 

 Second, no one said you said it or that anyone said it.

 

 

I said it in comparison to the topic of CBD only propaganda and specifically noted,... I don't actually believe it.  I believe all are important, even the psychoactive ingredients and that the majority of health related issues helped by marijuana are not "cbd only" or cbd anything for that matter.  It is a piece of the puzzle(big view), it is a godsend for some people,  but an overzealous campaign for "CBD oil" by the RSO block, the phoenix tears block, the adolescent usage block(etc etc.) has resulted in impossible circumstances and zero help to people because of having such a narrow view.  It exists. It is rampant and I must smoosh it. :-)  As in, bust the reality bubble around it. 

 

Testing.  For large commercial/corporate products,  general safety testing, not beyond what is already currently accepted for other herbal products.  Mold. fungi, Best Practices etc.

 

 For commercial edible products. Previous testing plus large batch ecoli(plus a couple others) testing similar to all current testing standards for all commercial/corporate food products.

 

 Anything beyond that is for Entertainment/ Marketing/ scientific interest.

 

 Local small  growers/farmers/collectives who sell commercially are not subject to such testing.

 

Patients and Caregivers never ever test . As I said entertainment/interest.

 

Cannabinoid levels are scientific interest and marketing. 

 

 You may not realize, but these items we speak of will either be mandatory or not exist.  We will not be blessed with a middle ground.

 

Large commercial= simple basic safety testing. Period. Anything after that is boutique otherwise it will be mandatory.

What do you mean they will be mandatory or they won't exist?  They exist now and are not mandatory.  This IS the middle ground, we can test for things or not.  The only thing I don't like is no repurcussions for selling flowers with that many ppm permethrin products.

Mal, have you ever heard of mesothelioma?  Do you think people feel what caused it?  Your ideas that no one has ever died from sprays on MJ, do you think no one has ever been hurt from it?  How do you know these sprays don't contribute to cancer or lung problems, because that's why there are limits on food which we don't smoke.

And before you cuse me, I AM NOT FOR MANDATORY TESTING, just repercussions for selling toxic product to sick folk.

 

Just read Zaps comment, any link to this study?  Why don't we solve this by going to the farmers market and dispensaries and getting testing material.

Everyone wants to argue, no one wants to find out.  We do have people saying they import from cali and we do have tests saying calis dispensary flowers are dirty.  Who knows.

Although if the flowers were in detroit does it really matter where they came from.  Still on the med mrkt in Mi.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Norby

[Restorium2]

What do you mean they will be mandatory or they won't exist? 

 

Because we are talking about Jone's Bills. If they mention testing at all it will be towards his intent to restrict. Which means it will be across the board testing for everyone in the most restrictive way you can think of. Actually, we can't even think that low, so you have to try to think like Jones. You have to apply his intention to ever aspect of these bills. Nothing good exists for us in his mind or his bills.