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Most Efficient And Easiest Way To Extract


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You're killing me, I've been hunting for trim to use my bubble bags for months! Everyone up here uses everything except the main stalk :( Eventually I will prevail

The only buds that get put in my bho is the tiny ones no one would bother to trim!  I use all leaf, I smoke or vape buddz, I guess if I had enough I would use some budds, the only dif I notice is amount I get back from leaf vs budds, I have done some with all budds for some one, and Yea I did get alot more back from the budds than I would have the leaf, but It was no different as far as potency as mine made from the same strain but only leafs!

 

keif hash dont do it for me (im not saying it isnt good)  bubble hash is better than keif hash to me, and bho is better than all of them, I would so much love to be just using oil and not smoking anything, it is the best pain med I have ever had the pleasure to use!

 

Peace

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I second the pollen shaker/sifter. Just cut up the trim and put it in the sifter and put it in the freezer for a half hour.  Shake for a few minutes and then let the shake sit overnite.  It will dry out more since the freezing breaks the cell walls and you can make another sift tomorrow for edibles. 

I've done iso extractions and it seems easier to dry the heck out of trim/buds and shake them instead.  I personally don't like wax/oil/shatter as it seems like it's missing something compared to hash/kief.  Sure works well and is potent but seems like somethings missing to me.

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depending on the polarity of the solvent, temperature of the material used, and temperature of the solvent used... many constituents of cannabis oil could potentially be washed away or destroyed.

 

I love the taste of the "wax" in my dry shaker gold dust too, even though it may or may not be active, it contains the essence of flavor to me.

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I second the pollen shaker/sifter. Just cut up the trim and put it in the sifter and put it in the freezer for a half hour.  Shake for a few minutes and then let the shake sit overnite.  It will dry out more since the freezing breaks the cell walls and you can make another sift tomorrow for edibles. 

I've done iso extractions and it seems easier to dry the heck out of trim/buds and shake them instead.  I personally don't like wax/oil/shatter as it seems like it's missing something compared to hash/kief.  Sure works well and is potent but seems like somethings missing to me.

 

I can relate.

 

I am not too familiar with kief, but I must say the best tasting stuff I ever had was finger hash. To achieve the premium taste with extracts is not easy. A lot of the flavor gets stuck in the filters, especially when you winterize it.

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@grassmatch -

 

Yes I have. When it came to RSO I did, but didn't notice a difference. That is my fault, the stuff is so potent those differences are difficult to detect.

 

I never tried to extract from fresh "wet" bud though. It does interest me due to the fact that they are heavily loaded with terpenes.

 

 

Edit: Now that I think about it, trying the fresh dried buds, it was heat decarbed so that probably ruined any noticeable differences. I have never tried fresh bud oil for vaping or smoking. Any differences would probably be more obvious then. If I happen to use fresh dried buds again, I will make sure to set aside some to smoke or vape and see if I notice the difference you mentioned.

 

There are probably many different methods that produce a higher medicinal quality product, just don't notice them which makes it difficult to realize things need to be done a certain way. I AM JUST SO FRUSTRATED WITH THE LAW. It is not safe to have buds or oils tested. I am at that point to want to have my products tested to better achieve quality and medicinal properties. I just cannot compute that oil-resin is illegal for patients.

 

Going by the COA ruling and people currently facing charges, technically speaking, smoking joints and using a vaporizer is illegal. Those are heat extractions, just like rosin extractions, using a hair straightener or iron to extract. If that oil is illegal, then vaping and smoking buds is just as illegal since those are heat extractions. I guess the only legal way to use cannabis is to eat straight buds then. That is insane. The punishments we face if violating is just as insane, complete tyranny.

 

sorry for the rant! :D

Edited by GrowGoddess
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  • 6 months later...

 

I will offer my two cents!

 

I notice you mention quality (potency) and quantity. That is kind of irrelevant without knowing more details. What is it you want the product (concentrate or oil) for? What would the purpose be? Profit, novelty, medicine, recreation? Those questions must be answered first to be able to properly answer your question.

 

I have not tried or made all of the different types of oils or concentrates, but I have pretty much made and tried every type of alcohol extraction. I haven't been growing for 40 years, but do have more than 15 straight years of experience in growing and 5 of those years of experience in making concentrates. My first goal was potency, I had to try it for myself to believe it. After watching Run From the Cure, I decided to give it a try and make the best oil I could with the best product I had. As far as I am concerned, it exceeded what the people in the video were saying in regards to potency. Although, Rick was using outdoor grown buds, I only used top shelf, organically grown, indoor garden buds which were very well manicured. I found that eating or ingesting oil is way more efficient than smoking or vaping buds or oil or dabs. Most people just want only a 2-4 hour buzz, for relief. Following the RSO method, my end product provided about 6-8 hours of feeling medicated. Switching to half naturally decarbed oil, that provided a medicated feeling for up to 24 hours. Now that I don't use any heat in my process, minimal filtering, no winterizing, and 100% organic (utilizing 200 proof organic ethanol as a solvent) I call it ND Sap or naturally decarbed sap, now it can provide 48-72 hour medicated effects. All were the same size dose, about a rice grain size dose, with the exception of the last type of oil (ND sap), where the doses have been smaller. Also, the doses have been taken either every day or at least every other day to produce these effects. Just taking a single dose for the first time, it would probably require more to get the same or similar effects. Myself and one of my other patients have both had the same experience with the different oils.

 

When it comes to medicinal use, you will not get the full effects from bubble hash. You will be missing one of the best, most important ingredients, which I believe is at least comparable to THC and CBD. There are at least 133 known terpenes in cannabis and with a cold water extraction, you will not be extracting the terpenes, at least not the majority of them. Alcohol does extract the terpenes as well as additional elements. Alcohol doesn't extract a lot of the additional unwanted elements if done correctly. It will also extract the THC and CBDs. Isn't that a good thing? You can get all three medicines with one solvent, alcohol. I highly recommend 200 proof organic ethanol (KleenXtract). Yes, it is only safe to use the product after the alcohol has been fully evaporated or purged. I like to keep my final product in a diluted state. After I purge off the 200 proof alcohol, I will add a touch of 192 proof polish vodka so dosing with a dropper can be utilized. I am getting three of the most important medicines my grow room can provide, terpenes, THC, and CBD. There are at least 66 known CBDs. The terpenes, which I have personally seen them work better than any other medicine for certain issues, such as scrapes, cuts, and tooth pain, there is great potential for so much more. I also believe they assist the THC in passing the blood brain barrier, not 100% sure of that, but just what I believe from what I have experienced.

 

Sadly the majority if the terpenes evaporate out with the alcohol in an etoh extraction method according to this research paper. Perhaps its not as much of an issue if you dont use heat though.

http://www.cannabis-med.org/data/pdf/en_2013_01_1.pdf

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Sadly the majority if the terpenes evaporate out with the alcohol in an etoh extraction method according to this research paper. Perhaps its not as much of an issue if you dont use heat though.

http://www.cannabis-med.org/data/pdf/en_2013_01_1.pdf

I have extracted with oil based substances like butter and olive oil and compared the product with a proper alcohol extraction using temps at or below 220 F and found the active results of the extracted cannabinoids relatively the same. I have done hundreds of extractions every which way you can think of and most all products remain the same if the extraction is done properly. BHO leaves the least plant matter, followed by alcohol, and then you have oil based extractions that leave the most plant material behind. There are ways to selectively remove just about anything you want gone from your extraction product. 

First you decide what you need out of your extract and then choose the appropriate method to fit the circumstances. I can make a extract intended for oral use. Then put it through a winterization filtering process and make it so it's good to vape in an oil vaporizer if that's the need. 

You shouldn't hang your hat on one research paper and decide from that what you are looking for out of your extract would be missing because you will find that there are many ways to extract and most ways are very much good enough for your needs. 

There's a lot of theories out there you will find to be worthless once you have entered into actual real world extractions. Cannabinoids are relatively tough, check the boiling points and see that the molecular bonds are fairly strong with the terpenes. Just as strong as THC so if you have THC you still have your terpenes. You can prove that some terpenes are leaving. But if you brought a lot of them to the reaction then a lot of them will remain after gentle heating below their boiling points. Boiling points determine the strength of the bonds that hold them from completely escaping your extraction.

That's my opinion from doing a lot of extractions and working with a lot of patients. 

Edited by Restorium2
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Education is very important on this issue. The police are floating a couple of truly stupid legal theories right now based on the Carruthers ruling, and nobody wants to get caught up in these type of test cases. The most disturbing case is in Ottawa County, where a patient has been charged with possession of synthetic THC, which is still schedule 1 in Michigan, for a thumbprint of "residue." Last week, the lab technician testified in the case to what seem like political shenanigans based on the Carruthers ruling regarding cannabis oil. It is an evolving problem.

I think we need cases to proceed through the courts to resolve the COA's assholeness. It will happen one way or another. Maybe the Ottawa County case can help. If it proceeds to appeals, perhaps amici laying out the issue will pique the interest of the SC, which I'm betting will be reasonable and allow for them.

Edited by GregS
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I think we need cases to proceed through the courts to resolve the COA's assholeness. It will happen one way or another. Maybe the Ottawa County case can help. If it proceeds to appeals, perhaps amici laying out the issue will pique the interest of the SC, which I'm betting will be reasonable and allow for them.

You are probably aware that Michael Kooman et al have discovered shenanigans going on between the AG's office and the State Crime Lab. There is a hearing on Nov 5 in Ottawa County (does anyone have the time/location of the hearing? I haven't been able to locate it) to dismiss the case due to the "politically motivated influence" of the AG's office in this matter.

 

basically, LEO found a smear of "oil" on the defendants kitchen counter. The lab tech testified that they couldn't determine whether it was plant based or synthetic (reallr?) and labeled it "origin unknown" or something similar. Plant based is a misdemeanor, synthetic a felony. Defendant was charged with a felony. Speculation is the AGs office put pressure on the lab to come to the 'origin unknown' conclusion, giving the prosecutors office the option of charging the defendant with a felony. This could huge!

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Sadly the majority if the terpenes evaporate out with the alcohol in an etoh extraction method according to this research paper. Perhaps its not as much of an issue if you dont use heat though.

http://www.cannabis-med.org/data/pdf/en_2013_01_1.pdf

 

That is what I have been trying to tell everyone. No heat, loss of terpenes is not an issue. Something I have never seen before. The terpenes have a great effect on the buzz, and I suspect the same for medicinal effects. Some medicinal effects I have witnessed first hand that a heat decarbed oil cannot compare to.

 

Exceeding 110F damage will be caused to the terpenes and the evaporation of them will increase drastically. If heat is to be used, the recommended temperature is between 95F and 110F.  This is based upon recent research. 

 

I assure you, an oil made and decarbed without utilizing heat, is much different than any other method I have seen. The effects last longer and are more comfortable. The downside is the decarb process takes a minimum of 100 days. Natural decarbing is much different, a night and day difference. I have made a lot of RSO as well as naturally decarbed oil. However, I can see someone preferring the RSO buzz, it is more intense, but does not last as long.

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66 known cbd's wtf?

 

I assume you are referring to my comment, but not sure where you are going with WTF. You don't believe there are that many or you think the 66 amount is too few?

 

I realize 66 known CBDs is an understatement. I don't know the actual amount, but I do know it is over 80. The reference of 66 came from one of my books by Mel Frank, he was citing research done by one of the colleges that was approved to study marijuana back in the 80's.

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I assume you are referring to my comment, but not sure where you are going with WTF. You don't believe there are that many or you think the 66 amount is too few?

 

I realize 66 known CBDs is an understatement. I don't know the actual amount, but I do know it is over 80. The reference of 66 came from one of my books by Mel Frank, he was citing research done by one of the colleges that was approved to study marijuana back in the 80's.

 

I took it as a "wtf, there is only 1 CBD not 66 - and that's cannabidiol".

 

But it's obvious that you are referring to cannabinoids.

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Sorry if i offended you grow goddess.

Zach is right i was confused since cbd is one of more than 66 cannabinoids.

Ill try to be more respectful

No offense taken.

 

I took it as a "wtf, there is only 1 CBD not 66 - and that's cannabidiol".

 

But it's obvious that you are referring to cannabinoids.

 

LOL zachw, you are 100% correct. It is funny that in over 5 years, nobody has questioned me on this.

 

I do have a reason why I made the statement referring to 66 CBDs. CBD is the most common known cannabinoid in cannabis that is non-psychoactive.

So, it is more simple to just refer to all non-psychoactive cannabinoids as CBD. I know it is wrong, but I have seen scientists, dispensaries, professors, et. al., also refer to the non-psychoactive cannabinoids as CBD. Again, I know it is not the correct way to put it. Kind of similar to THC. What type of THC? there are different ones, but it is more simple to say THC.

 

Also, all of the oil making of CBD oil is referred to in the same manner. At least those I have researched. Which is in the hundreds due to patients requesting my opinion. They call it CBD oil, which is not the proper term. The proper term would be, cannabis extract, non-psychoactive cannabinoids, but that is not what they call it. The oil makers, sellers, and patients all call it CBD oil. Not a good excuse for me, I guess you could say I have been lazy. Kudos to you for correcting me!  

 

No harm, no foul. My apologies if I have confused anyone.

 

:D

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there are some tasty waxes and plant lipids to help pad the final product with. These are gathered when we use the "whole plant" to extract from. The result is usually better than the buds the extractor is growing so nobody notices. Truth is by weight the "potency" is dropped when anything but the contents of the individual trichomes are collected.

 

Most people don't winterize their bho, but often winterize their iso extract, to remove the plant materials that are not desired, but targeted by the alcohol.

A butane extraction of whole plant would be more potent by weight than an iso extraction of whole plant material, but similar once unwanted constituents are removed most likely. I enjoy variation, some dry sift, some bubble, some iso, some ntane, depending on the mood I may be in. With so many options for the med to be utilized its no wonder the world seems to be rediscovering this miracle plant from ancient times.   its about time!

Stone age people had it all figured out, and we just keep right at it. Yay us.

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Hey folks...looking for an opinion on the best way to extract from trim, or even whole bud. I've been growing for 40 yrs, fairly steadily, and got that part down to perfection. Have used bubble bags for decades (working on the 3rd set) and get AAA quality bubble that's always spoken for long before its even produced. Also have made up several dozen large batches of budder with good results.

 

Have NOT ever experimented with any other ways of extracting concentrates with solvents at all, and wonder if that could be a better way to get the best and most from say....a couple lbs of trim or bud?

Not interested in hiring an extraction company to have it done for a price...this has to be 100% my own project and equipment, and truthfully...am very happy with the bubble bags yield and quality, but am wondering if using a solvent method would yield more end product? There are a few new "buzzwords" for extracts and methods, so wonder if maybe any new super productive methods may be more productive and potent. 

 

 Solvents always scared me a little so stayed away from them. Danger of fire, and harmfull vapors and fumes seemed like more hassle than I wanted to undertake, but if some new extraction method is head and shoulders above making bubble hash as far as yield or potency, may give it a try. Have sorta checked out Shatter, BHO, and Simpson Oil methods, but not in depth, and wonder if its going to be worth the extra effort, and changing to a new method.

Rosin.

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  • 1 month later...

RSO twist. Instead of using rice cooker and losing all that alcohol into vapor I use an air cooled distiller and recapture the alcohol. To save the inside of my distiller I place the mixture into a stainless steel bowl. Put water in the bottom of the distiller because it has a boil dry sensor. Place stainless steel bowl of mixture into distiller (kinda like a double boiler). When recaptured alcohol tests at low proofing you are done with this step. Then proceed with the usual final purge process.

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RSO twist. Instead of using rice cooker and losing all that alcohol into vapor I use an air cooled distiller and recapture the alcohol. To save the inside of my distiller I place the mixture into a stainless steel bowl. Put water in the bottom of the distiller because it has a boil dry sensor. Place stainless steel bowl of mixture into distiller (kinda like a double boiler). When recaptured alcohol tests at low proofing you are done with this step. Then proceed with the usual final purge process.

Nice Work!

 

amount of alcohol in = amount of alcohol out by weight/volume ?

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RSO twist. Instead of using rice cooker and losing all that alcohol into vapor I use an air cooled distiller and recapture the alcohol. To save the inside of my distiller I place the mixture into a stainless steel bowl. Put water in the bottom of the distiller because it has a boil dry sensor. Place stainless steel bowl of mixture into distiller (kinda like a double boiler). When recaptured alcohol tests at low proofing you are done with this step. Then proceed with the usual final purge process.

Just like this machine here that has been around since the 70's; 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Thai-Power-ISO2-Oil-Extractor-Medical-Marijuana-Enhancer-/172027192150?hash=item280d9ea356:g:JO0AAOSwcBhWa6kV

 

Nice Work!

 

amount of alcohol in = amount of alcohol out by weight/volume ?

No, you lose some of the alcohol. Maybe aboul 10% by volume.

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Just like this machine here that has been around since the 70's; 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Thai-Power-ISO2-Oil-Extractor-Medical-Marijuana-Enhancer-/172027192150?hash=item280d9ea356:g:JO0AAOSwcBhWa6kV

 

No, you lose some of the alcohol. Maybe aboul 10% by volume.

Thanks resto, Im very interested in switching from my bho extraction to the type of extractor  you put a link to, I saved the selller on my ebay, one day I would love to recover the extraction vehicle, butane gets expensive and harder to find the purest stuff, I dont live real close to any dispense but have been to one that has the tane I have been looking for, still I would love to use shine to extract and recover it each time!

 

I just hope it is as good as what I already make, I dont find it a problem to do the bho extraction and always use the utmost caution so I dont give our community a black eye and a roof blowing to the moon lol!

 

Peace

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RSO twist. Instead of using rice cooker and losing all that alcohol into vapor I use an air cooled distiller and recapture the alcohol. To save the inside of my distiller I place the mixture into a stainless steel bowl. Put water in the bottom of the distiller because it has a boil dry sensor. Place stainless steel bowl of mixture into distiller (kinda like a double boiler). When recaptured alcohol tests at low proofing you are done with this step. Then proceed with the usual final purge process.

 

DIY? 

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Those are great, I've used one since the mid 70's.

They're made under the name Super Flower Tower now and are available here;

https://www.superflowertower.com/

 

The parts are interchangeable with the Iso 2 so if you need replacement parts for that you can get those there too.

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