Prayers For Dr Tarzan

[trichcycler]

Fact of the matter is that strengthening any part of the act............ Strengthens the entire act.............. Why we are always so divided is and has always been beyond me............... I can't even count how many years I have been saying it that we SHOULD ALL be on the SAME FUKKING SIDE.....................

I used to feel the same way. We(not you an me, but all of us) may have different motives concerning medical marijuana and our Act.

Some hide behind a card, some open dispensaries, some don't even register. Some spend oodles of cash and time to be compliant, while others sit behind vendor table all day cashing in(jealous?)

I wonder how could the guy that pimps buds all day to anyone who answers the CL ad, be on the same team as the sick man providing legally to himself and his sick friend? While he sick watch the profiteers pervert the very laws that are protecting the sick, and cashing in on the system designed for the sick. We all have one thing in common maybe, and that's to decriminalize cannabis and stop the arrests. But that's so some can cash in, and some can safely medicate. I never judged my dealer for my provisions in the past, but maybe some do now?

 

peace

[beourbud]

Decriminalization IS the solution.

 

Sure the corporations won't be able to monopolize the law, Cartels could not monopolize, Leo won't be able to exploit the law, dirty politicians won't be able to take kick backs or inside trade, registered card holders would not be arrested, lives and families and children won't be ruined , doors won't be kicked in, dogs won't be killed.

 

If you opperate outside the law all your gear, cash and product confiscated and auctioned off and funds go to public health programs for the poor.

 

Any other system funnels the $$$ to a chosen few and the rest get screwed

 

We need to unite and conqour....WE CAN DO IT

[mibrains]

Tarzan gave freely to everyone he knows.

 

he has one of the largest hearts i have ever known.

 

he changed all his ways several years back and as far as i know without discussing any of the particulars in the case.

 

i used to go and vend at the farmers market also years ago before the supreme court ruled on mcqueen... many of us have had to change our ways many times to remain compliant.

 

i sincerely believe Tarzan is being hit because of other issues in his life and this is just someones way of getting to him.

 

i pray for his safety and hope this mess gets resolved quickly.

 

Bob if your aware of an existing Gofund me account please post it here.. i talked to Tarzan on the phone yesterday but forgot to ask about it.

[Norby]

Well, if people are breaking the law to help patients then.....  It's completely insane to have a law that protects patients in a transaction but doesn't protect the source.......  If it wasn't for the source, whatever it is, there would be no help for the patient.  And letting the gov't tell you who can be a patient or not is also insane.  So we have to look to our gov't to sort out who to help?  The same gov't that has it as schedule 1 and do I need to list the others below that scheduling and over the counter meds that can kill you?  It's another system set up for division.  The way I see it is that there are a BUNCH of people who have been left behind by the law!

Edited April 24, 2015 by Norby

[Norby]

Mal is backing the gov't stance that different people deserve different protection or consideration.  The law is working really well to divide people and without the dispensaries it wouldn't be working.  So a shout out to the people who take care of patients no matter the risk, that is the spirit of the law, to help people.  LEO is the one using the law for it's benefit.  Health concerns should be beyond LEO's reach, esp if you choose a less toxic med.

[cristinew]

Section  8  does not cover sales to an informant or undercover officer,

[Norby]

Section  8  does not cover sales to an informant or undercover officer,

What if they had a card and signed an agreement?  What if they just had a card and transferred before paperwork?  Didn't know you were judge and jury?

[cristinew]

Mqueen   COA  then Supreme court have already  decided this  You can only sell to your 5 connected patients threw the registry, its clear and simple,  If they were connect threw the registry there would of been no cause for an arrest ,

[Norby]

I'm glad not all judges jump to that conclusion without knowing the facts of the case.  And then there is jury nullification.

 

drs. get out of murder while drunk and kill a teen, OJ got out from murder, I don't think you are the person to judge before trial.  Anything is possible, just hasn't happened yet.  Unless these things are pushed it shrinks instead of expanding the protections.  I think they are there and the judges won't allow.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Norby

[cristinew]

 And then there is jury nullification.   Name one case please.      I do not know the facts to the  case  but  two counts of delivery  tells me a little ,, He could get out of it  but he needs to hire a dream team  like OJ did ,  And i do not think he has that kind of money,  A plea bargain  is in the future  i can see it,

[Norby]

You missed the "just hasn't happened yet" part, I think.

[cristinew]

And Judges will put anyone in jail that even brings up  jury nullification.  or dismiss them from the jury,m,

[trichcycler]

Mqueen   COA  then Supreme court have already  decided this  You can only sell to your 5 connected patients threw the registry, its clear and simple,  If they were connect threw the registry there would of been no cause for an arrest ,

and added , if the supplier waits for the card to arrive, saying LARA approved the provision to undercover X patient, supplier would be covered. But an officer would not be trying to get into your legal registry, rather he is trying to get you to sell outside of your legal registry, because he knows the prosecutor will take the case and tens of thousands of dollars will change hands because of it, or at least another notched conviction. This was clear to me before I applied to the LARA. I am not protected from arrest if I sell to someone who is not part of my registry. I don't aim to dare the courts, only to stay out of their radar. Why not wait for the card, to see if even the patient is qualified to be mine and I am legally allowed to sell marijuana to them. Any other interpretation by the average joe is a gofundme score or a guilty plea deal to avoid jail imo.

[Norby]

So you're saying patients without caregivers don't deserve meds?  See this is why I'm bringing it up.  The law specifically allows for this division.  We all know selling outside your 5 is either illegal or interpretted wrong.  So you think there should not be protections outside the card, even though the law states it?  The law is FLAWED or the interpretation is flawed.  If it wasn't for patients selling outside the law I'd never have cannatonic right now and I wouldn't be able to test for CBD and I won't throw ANYONE under the bus who has helped me or helped other patients or entrapped by LEO by thinking they were selling to someone in need.  Law be damned, anyone within or outside the law getting arrested is what no one should be arrested for a plant means.  It means EVERYONE who uses and has some dr somewhere who thinks MJ will work for their headache or just wants to relax after work means.  It means no division, whether selling or shoving it up their arse.  NO ONE SHOULD GO TO JAIL FOR A PLANT, yet people want to think the law somehow priviliges them.  We ALL know selling MJ is illegal unless you paid your money to LARA and they say it's ok. Speculation is just that, speculation and I don't think it's needed on one of our own, if there is an "our own".  How about speculating how the cops could've fuked him?

[trichcycler]

no problem, constructive conversation is delightful, thank you.

 

You know how I feel about marijuana surely, but the laws are written differently than how I/we feel. Even within the law I know patients without caregivers are protected and I know how silly it is to not offer protection to the ones who provide to them. I blame those few that admit to writing this law, but who knows, there may be a bigger picture I don't yet see, and good reason for every single word as written, not sure, we'll see how it plays out. Sorta looks like a cop wrote it to me sometimes.

 

I like talking about the way I wish it was, but talking about the way it is will go farther to keep us safe. I only say that having a hard card and following the Act rules will keep us safer than treading on the outskirts into the defendable areas of protections. Why is it written this way, time is telling.

 

I assume the cops fkukkuk the op, regardless of what his actions and charges are. They often ftuk all people they raid, no surprises there. I feel bad for anyone wrapped up in a medical cannabis charge. I think the relentless actions of courts, judges, leo is ridiculous, but I feel that way on many of the goings on in the court house as well as the cop shop. I think there are plenty of dispensaries on purpose, and patients are lined up at them. Are they getting quality meds? I don't know, but that's on the growers dumping garbage or not. NO shortage of buds in jars though,  seen at my small slice of four dispensaries./clubs.

[ozzrokk]

I agree mibrains............ Tarzan has always been a stand up guy and I truly hope things work out for him.......

Edited to add...... That I remember Tarzan talking about this rift he and his neighbor had........... I would say that all has something to do with this whole situation.............. Truly sad..............

 

Cristinew............... Do you not remember the SC saying that they DO NOT ANSWER if a section 8 covers this? Mcqueen was not a criminal case so that part was not before them.................. An unregistered caregiver and section 8 has NOT yet been answered.............. I am sure it is for a reason because the courts know what the answer is and do not want it answered........

 

People say pimping patients, etc and how someone is doing something so wrong............. How is providing patients meds that they want and need hurting patients? We are not talking about providing meds to any tom dick or harry we are talking about carded patients or doctor recommended unregistered patients.

Edited April 24, 2015 by ozzrokk

[+Malamute]

Tarzan gave freely to everyone he knows.

 

he has one of the largest hearts i have ever known.

 

he changed all his ways several years back and as far as i know without discussing any of the particulars in the case.

 

i used to go and vend at the farmers market also years ago before the supreme court ruled on mcqueen... many of us have had to change our ways many times to remain compliant.

 

i sincerely believe Tarzan is being hit because of other issues in his life and this is just someones way of getting to him.

 

i pray for his safety and hope this mess gets resolved quickly.

 

Bob if your aware of an existing Gofund me account please post it here.. i talked to Tarzan on the phone yesterday but forgot to ask about it.

 

 

 I will say it again, I hope Tarzan can successfully present his Sec. 8 defense.

 

I hope he has changed, and if he did, then Sec. 8 should be in the bag for him.

 

Unfortunately for him, we will all know. 

 

Many times an arrest is wrong and we may find out he is sec 4 compliant or the police falsified documents or maybe the police didn't have a physicians recommendation or whatnot.

 

 We will find out.

 

Regardless of what happened, I hope Tarzan gets a sec 8 or any other defense that keeps him from conviction.

[+Malamute]

Mal is backing the gov't stance that different people deserve different protection or consideration.  The law is working really well to divide people and without the dispensaries it wouldn't be working.  So a shout out to the people who take care of patients no matter the risk, that is the spirit of the law, to help people.  LEO is the one using the law for it's benefit.  Health concerns should be beyond LEO's reach, esp if you choose a less toxic med.

 

 

 Backing? really?

 

 How about explaining the law in the hopes people avoid arrest and conviction in the simplest manner possible.

[Norby]

no problem, constructive conversation is delightful, thank you.

 

You know how I feel about marijuana surely, but the laws are written differently than how I/we feel. Even within the law I know patients without caregivers are protected and I know how silly it is to not offer protection to the ones who provide to them. I blame those few that admit to writing this law, but who knows, there may be a bigger picture I don't yet see, and good reason for every single word as written, not sure, we'll see how it plays out. Sorta looks like a cop wrote it to me sometimes.

 

I like talking about the way I wish it was, but talking about the way it is will go farther to keep us safe. I only say that having a hard card and following the Act rules will keep us safer than treading on the outskirts into the defendable areas of protections. Why is it written this way, time is telling.

 

I assume the cops fkukkuk the op, regardless of what his actions and charges are. They often ftuk all people they raid, no surprises there. I feel bad for anyone wrapped up in a medical cannabis charge. I think the relentless actions of courts, judges, leo is ridiculous, but I feel that way on many of the goings on in the court house as well as the cop shop. I think there are plenty of dispensaries on purpose, and patients are lined up at them. Are they getting quality meds? I don't know, but that's on the growers dumping garbage or not. NO shortage of buds in jars though,  seen at my small slice of four dispensaries./clubs.

Sorry if some seemed like shouting and repetitive, just emphasizing.

[trichcycler]

Sorry if some seemed like shouting and repetitive, just emphasizing.

not at all, all good

[+Malamute]

Look pal. Townsend argued long and loud, and you supported him every inch of the way and until you were sternly told to knock it off, that sec. 8 only protects registered patients and caregivers who color outside the lines. That is dead wrong, and the Supreme Court is considering the degree of protection due to unregistered individuals under the AD. You could not ban me the last time, although you promised you would, and zap set you straight about it. Do you really need to be reminded? Townsend deserved to be banned and was permitted here long past what was reasonable.You are wrong about this too. To suggest that we withhold support from your friend Tarzan, as Mal, who supports Townsend and his hooey, has done, is a slap in the face to those who would take the law to a more complete end. If no one had pushed the limits we would still be in a pre 2008 predicament, and those who continue to push should be admired rather than condemned.

 

So raise funds for Tarzan's defense. But don't suggest, and I will argue against anyone who insists, that any part of the law be ignored or diminished.

 

 

 Noone has said ignore the law Greg. Seriously. wtf dude.  Take some pills an chill out.

 

I never said WE should withhold support for Tarzan. I said people that purposefully and publically  operate under sec 8 protections should not be eating up pro bono work.  They knew and know the risk. You would think they would have planned for it. 

 

 Your fetish over a doctor is insane. Seriously greg. Like wow. And how long ago was this? Let it go. 

 

 I support my own opinions and I have laid them out extensively for years and anyone can go read them anytime they want by the thousands and thousands of posts I have made publically. 

 

 I do not hold you , greg, responsible for Joe Cains opinions or the support you gave him that you can sell marijuana to anyone.

 

I have never given support to  Dr bobs alleged opinion that unregistered cg's do not have some protection.  The problem for tarzan will likely come down to proving his patients were legal. Informants tend not to come in and testify that indeed, they were a legal patient with a physicians recommendation.  I believe it is insanely difficult for an unregistered CG to get a sec 8 defense.  No doubt about that.

 

 And, as far as Dr bob goes on sec 8 defenses,... how many physicians regularly show up in court to defend people on Sec. 8 defenses?  Pull out one hand. That is all you will need and dr bob has done it more than anyone. Period.

 

 So of course Dr Bob supports sec 8,... he testifies for people regularly for it.

 

And actually, I would say Dr Bob probably has a better idea of what happens to unregistered cg's in court than you do sitting at your computer all day. He is actually there.  You know, doing what you would hope a physician would do for his patients. 

 

 I mean, if I judged you by how often you have been wrong about the law, I would have disowned talking to you in like 2010.  Hahaha... Endless topics of wrongness.

 

 And again Greg, why do you not push the limits like you tell everyone else to do?  You are just another chickenhawk waiting for others to push past the law and prove you wrong again.  Go to jail and support your own opinions in court to a judge.  Other people are not your play toys and other people get in and got in trouble from when you said, on this forum, that anyone can sell to anyone under sec 8. WRONG.

 

Mibrains obviously believed the same thing despite the sane people telling him it was not ok under the law.  And if you are going to operate outside of the law, then do not do it publically you idiots... *shakes head* then expect free attorneys.

 

I do not admire those who push the law. I admire those who protect the law and do their best to keep people from arrest and jail.

 

 Noone is diminishing Sec 8 Greg.  Not one person I have seen posted in this thread has diminished Sec 8.  It is simply what it is.  It is not a golden key to the city. It is a desperate defense for those that have been arrested.  That is its intent. A backstop.  That is what an Affirmative defense is.  It isn't a mystery and anyone who has been to courts understands exactly what an affirmative defense is.   Sec. 8 does not prevent arrest. So I consider it a second line of defense.  One must go to jail to use it. 

 

I would love to hear from anyone here that thinks that Sec 8 is a better and "the best" option in our law. 

[mibrains]

Look pal. Townsend argued long and loud, and you supported him every inch of the way and until you were sternly told to knock it off, that sec. 8 only protects registered patients and caregivers who color outside the lines. That is dead wrong, and the Supreme Court is considering the degree of protection due to unregistered individuals under the AD. You could not ban me the last time, although you promised you would, and zap set you straight about it. Do you really need to be reminded? Townsend deserved to be banned and was permitted here long past what was reasonable.You are wrong about this too. To suggest that we withhold support from your friend Tarzan, as Mal, who supports Townsend and his hooey, has done, is a slap in the face to those who would take the law to a more complete end. If no one had pushed the limits we would still be in a pre 2008 predicament, and those who continue to push should be admired rather than condemned.

 

So raise funds for Tarzan's defense. But don't suggest, and I will argue against anyone who insists, that any part of the law be ignored or diminished.

 

check your meds greg i  was not wrong then and i am not wrong now.

 

i was not schooled... and you were banned for one week.

 

i won my argument and chad  and the staff backed me.

 

do not test me fool.  say something negative about Tarzan again.. i dare you.

 

i am in no mood.

 

NO ONE DESERVES TO BE PERSECUTED FOR HELPING A SICK PERSON

 

PERIOD.

 

thats what i have always argued.

you and Townsend argued a point about it not me... all i said is there will be NO NEGATIVE name calling or dont you remember?

 

Dr Townsend is an honorable doctor and is the leading medical marijuana licensing physician in Michigan.

 

I DONT CARE if you dont like him.

 

I DONT CARE if you dont like me.

 

you WILL NOT bad mouth him in my forums.

 

if you don't like it... push me and see what happens.

 

i told you

 

Last Warning.  next negative word you say about Dr Bob or Tarzan and your going to be banned for life.

 

if you don't believe me - try me.

 

Chad Mike all of us moderators are sick and tired of your ranting... whether or not you or they agree, disagree, like Dr Townsend or not it is not allowed for you to speak negatively of him or his practice.

 

if you can't handle it GET THE H E L L out of my thread for Tarzan He is my friend and he deserves respect not arguments from your ignorant a s s about Dr Townsend being Mals friend.

 

i will not say it to you again.

i will not edit your crap nonsense about Dr Townsend again.

 

ever

after today i will report it and we the management of the MMMA will decide if you are allowed to slander someone in our forums ever again.

 

have a nice day please

 

i beg you.

 

there is a whole lot more important things to be doing besides slandering people on our side.

 

please stop it.

[mibrains]

i did believe the same thing mal..

 

back in 2010 i LOVED beyond words going to Jackson Farmers market and meeting all these really amazing people and helping anyone who had a card.

 

things changed.

 

i changed

 

Tarzan changed.

 

i know now the only way to stay absolutely safe is to follow the section 4 guidelines and deal with your 5 registered patients only.

 

yep

 

took me a while to accept it.. but after years of stories of wrongdoings.. LEO is not our friend and they will not play fair. 

 

the only way to play this game fair is not to play.

[+Malamute]

Understood Mibrains. All good.

 

I want and hope farmers markets will be fully legal someday. I 1000% support the concept over just about any other commercial type operation by far.

 

I know Myself and hayduke are like the only 2 people rippin on the legalization language initiatives lack of allowing sales under a farmers market or in any form to anyone.  I am there. I do what I can to make sure it can exist.  It can be like banging my head against a wall, but at least I know I am actually there doing what I can to protect marijuana for the little guy/gals.

 

I truly do hope Tarzan avoids conviction. Regardless of what happened.

 

Please do put up a link to a donation page for us.  I have given money to many people in his exact circumstance. It is never much because I be poor, but I give a higher percentage of my income than most. :-)

 

 Send Tarzan my regards and concerns for him.  I will be supporting him from behind the scenes.

 

 Peace.

[ozzrokk]

Please everyone take a breather........................ We do not need this division......................... As a long time board member I ask that all involved in this conversation please take a breather............... For Tarzan and the sake of the entire board......... Please....