Dispensaries Going After Caregivers (Again...)

[+Malamute]

Maine: For those who never believe what scumbags dispensary interests are; I will start by posting items that happened in the last 3 days and we can go from there(even ignoring the last 10 years the commercial interest groups horrific assaults on caregivers and homegrowing)

 

 

 

 

http://bangordailynews.com/2015/05/08/politics/dhhs-wants-to-tighten-reins-on-maines-small-medical-marijuana-growers/
 

DHHS wants to tighten reins on Maine’s small medical marijuana growers

By BDN Staff
 

Posted May 08, 2015, at 4:02 p.m.
Last modified May 08, 2015, at 7:37 p.m.

 

AUGUSTA, Maine — The state agency charged with running Maine’s medical marijuana system wants more oversight of the more than 1,700 people who cultivate small amounts of medicinal marijuana for patients.

The small cultivators, known as caregivers, can serve as many as five patients, and grow no more than six plants per patient. In most cases, they must register with the state.

But the Department of Health and Human Services has no means of enforcing rules that require caregivers to follow the medical marijuana law, said Ken Albert, a former DHHS regulator who now runs the Maine Center for Disease Control.

 

For example, he said, DHHS can’t do random inspections of caregiver facilities, the way it can with other medical facilities, unless the caregiver approves. Even then, the caregiver isn’t obligated to turn over any information to the agency, he said.

 

DHHS has drafted a bill, LD 1392, which would tighten the rules under which caregivers operate, grant the department authority to enforce those rules and enact civil and criminal penalties for violations.

Rep. Deborah Sanderson, R-Chelsea, who submitted the bill on the department’s behalf, told the Health and Human Services Committee on Friday that the bill is necessary to deal with caregivers who could be breaking the law — and who are getting away with it because of a lack of oversight.

 

“I strongly support the department having the teeth and the ability to bring more compliance and oversight into this program,” she said. “I think it’s a good program, [but] I think more oversight in this program will only make it better.”

 

Under Maine’s medical marijuana law, any qualified patient can grow his or her own marijuana. There are two types of commercial providers: the caregivers, who are meant to serve small numbers of patients who cannot grow their own plants or who choose not to, and dispensaries, which operate retail stores and can serve as many patients as they want, but who face much stricter scrutiny from DHHS.

 

Representatives of dispensaries told the committee Friday that they believe the measure would “level the playing field” between what they described as the Wild West of the caregiver system and the structured regulatory environment of the dispensaries.

 

The relative freedom enjoyed by caregivers “puts our entire state at risk of unwanted attention from the federal government,” which still sees marijuana cultivation as illegal activity, said Laura Harper, a lobbyist for the Maine Association of Dispensary Operators.

 

Caregivers, however, told lawmakers that there was no need for further regulation, and decried several specific provisions in the department’s bill.

 

For example, the measure would remove the provision of the medical marijuana law that allows family or household members to grow marijuana for qualified patients without obtaining a caregiver’s license, saying the cost of licensure would be too much for some low-income families to bear.

 

Caregivers also opposed civil and criminal penalties, a proposed limit of 2.5 ounces of marijuana per patient for any half-month period, and a prohibition on giving away medical marijuana for free, or from giving it to anyone other than their contracted patients.

 

“If I’m trying to find a patient, or a customer, my favorite thing to do is to give them a sample of my medicine,” said Brandon Boatman, a caregiver from Frankfort. “If I’m unable to give them a sample of my product, and we have to sign a contract just for them to try it, that’s not fair from a consumer point of view.”

 

Some caregivers also said the emphasis on penalties and investigations unfairly casts suspicion on the industry, treating them like potential criminals rather than medicinal agriculturalists. Others took issue with the idea that the system somehow favored them over the larger-scale dispensaries that can make much more money than they can.

 

State law allows for only eight dispensaries, which can serve an unlimited number of patients, while caregivers can serve six patients at most, including themselves.

 

“I’m tired of hearing dispensaries whine like we have some kind of advantages,” Boatman said. “I could sit here on my soapbox and complain that I’d like to be a dispensary.”

 

The Health and Human Services Committee will hold a work session on the bill at a later date.

[+Malamute]

Hawaii:

 

Full bill: https://legiscan.com/HI/text/HB321/2015

 

On the plus side, Out of State patients can use the new dispensaries starting in 2018:

 

Beginning on January 1, 2018, this section may apply to qualifying patients from other states, territories of the United States, or the District of Columbia; provided that the patient is verified as a patient in their home state and registers with the department through a registration process established by the department.

 

But at what cost to the states patients and caregivers?:

 

Authorized sources of medical marijuana.  (a)  After December 31, 2018, a qualifying patient shall obtain medical marijuana or manufactured marijuana products only:
 

     (1)  From a dispensary licensed pursuant to chapter     ; provided that the marijuana shall be purchased and paid for at the time of purchase;

   

        After December 31, 2018, no primary caregiver shall be authorized to cultivate marijuana for any qualifying patient.

[GrowGoddess]

They don't have anything to gain by putting restrictions or whatever on me, they would only have something to lose. What they will lose is the money they are currently getting from my patients and I. I supply my patients with the amount they need for free. I will not tolerate any inspections. My patients only require a small amount and I am enjoying growing as a hobby. I see it as an even trade. If the government wants to invade my privacy and interfere any further with my hobby of growing and helping my patients, then I will have to quit. No biggie to me really. No problem to get away with a 600Watt flower set up, nobody would know the difference in the community where I live anyway. Going underground again would be no big deal to me, I have done it before for my own personal use. Heck, I felt much safer before the law actually. 

 

IT IS ILLEGAL TO HAVE COMPASSION THESE DAYS.

 

Why should i tolerate inspections when I am barely breaking even. Free is free. Seems to be quickly turning to be illegal these days. They mess up the law, it will be disappointing to me and will screw those who need medicine. What comes in the end via heavy regulations is non-medicinal low grade crap at a high cost.

 

Just my opinion.

[trichcycler]

this illustrates the importance of supporting our own  Act outlined caregiver/patient registration  for provisions within our state. 

There will be the issue of patients needing small amounts or ones unlikely to be tolerable without alternatives.

[trichcycler]

I will not tolerate any inspections.

then I will have to quit.

No biggie to me really. No problem to get away with a 600Watt flower set up

nobody would know the difference in the community where I live anyway.

Going underground again would be no big deal to me, Heck, I felt much safer before the law actually. 

 

IT IS ILLEGAL TO HAVE COMPASSION THESE DAYS.

 

Why should i tolerate inspections when I am barely breaking even.

Seems to be quickly turning to be illegal these days.

 

 

Just my opinion.

Right On !!

[+Malamute]

Yea.  This is the stuff I see and deal with all around the country, for years now.

 

Remember, this is the dispensary and "Safe Access" people lobbying the government for these restrictions.

 

As if a Cg, who most often is merely a husband, wife, father, mother, daughter, son, relative or family friend; is dangerous or needs inspecting.  That covers the vast vast majority of who a "Caregiver" is.  So a husband grows marijuana for his wife at home and they want to inspect?  It is disgusting and commercial dispensary/growers should be ashamed. 

 

Then throw in the GW pharm people and half these parents who say "crude marijuana and smoked marijuana" is not medicine...."CBD only".

 

sigh'...

 

And who say marijuana must be tested because it is dangerous.  Dangerous?  Prove it...  That is nonsense.

 

Anyhow,... just figured since certain people think that commercial is looking out for the little guy and it is just some ma and pop thing...

[+Malamute]

The relative freedom enjoyed by caregivers “puts our entire state at risk of unwanted attention from the federal government,” which still sees marijuana cultivation as illegal activity, said Laura Harper, a lobbyist for the Maine Association of Dispensary Operators.

 

 

 

 Those are the statements that drive me crazy.  As if HER growing marijuana for her dispensary is ok,.. but at home in your closet?  No go! All illegal and you are making the Feds come in.... Heh.

 

If I could spit in her face I would.  >:-)

[GrowGoddess]

 Those are the statements that drive me crazy.  As if HER growing marijuana for her dispensary is ok,.. but at home in your closet?  No go! All illegal and you are making the Feds come in.... Heh.

 

If I could spit in her face I would.  >:-)

 

I would spit in her face too for being anti-patriot and a self centered pig! She is bowing down to an organization (the federal government), which going by the graphs I have seen, the federal government and congress have 5% or less approval rating. That rating to me, and to other people that have spoken it in the courtroom, is considered operating under levels of treason.

 

Bowing down to a treasonous organization? I would spit in her face twice. What, our current state law is not good enough for her? The federal government is not even 100 years old with a 5% or less approval rating. I don't give a darn what their fear mongering threats are. My state laws are more important to me than those of the federal government. The citizens are supposed to rule this country, not a 5% approved federal government.

 

(Edited for typo)

Edited May 11, 2015 by GrowGoddess

[AmishRnot4ganja]

Greed is a powerful motivator. People will lie, cheat, and steal in the pursuit of money.

 

Whatever...

[+Malamute]

Yea.

 

 Sometimes ya just have to shine a light...

 

These same arguments against caregivers are regularly being made in Lansing.

 

And even the dispensary owners who want to keep the caregiver system, they will only shed a crocodile tear or two when caregivers get hamstrung and claim it as the price of progress.

 

Heh.

 

And the beat goes on..

 

p.s.  And game of thrones,... woohooo!

[Norby]

So ALL dispensaries don't want to buy from caregiver s and they should all be in the same boat?  So we should be against dispensaries so we can have it all to ourself?  How is that any different then their view? 

This is how you loose support and make people choose between a personal relationship and convenience, and you loose.  Does anyone go to someones house for eggs?  In the idea of caregivers AND dispensaries, everyone gets their way.  How does this division start?  Greed?  Cause the dispensaries I've gone to ALL want to buy from me when I bring in samples FOR TESTING so I'm just trying to figure out how this all makes sense?

 

Funny, in my view everyone wins.  Dispenses buy from caregivers, caregivers sell to their patients, and patients get the real benefit, they get to choose.  how does a gov't become successful in getting the greed of groups to work against each other so no one or only one or the other gets what they want when everyone can be happy?

Edited May 11, 2015 by Norby

[+Malamute]

They are currently discussing cutting caregivers out....

 

 The vast majority of caregivers will never sell to a dispensary because they are just helping out a family member or a friend.

[+Malamute]

  In the idea of caregivers AND dispensaries, everyone gets their way.  How does this division start?  Greed?  Cause the dispensaries I've gone to ALL want to buy from me

 

 

 

 Blinders, intentional ignorance and myopic view.

[trichcycler]

maybe dispensary owners are not in it for compassion, like rite aid or cvs. Maybe they are looking at this from a business pov?  In business its their responsibility to

produce profit, at any legal expense.   Rite aid turns sick people away daily, when they cant afford their medication. Drugs for cancer, pain, lupus, MS etc, to the street until you have the cash.

I wondered why we would believe that everyone involved with cannabis is a cool, compassionate person or business?   I used to think that too, until I got my card and met some of

you at these "Compassion Clubs", then I saw clearly that the cannabis crowd has a new face. Its not the face of those people I knew throughout my life.   No other industry is compassionate with goods and services involving drugs, why would a dispensary be expected to be?    When a business proposes to sell a million dollars of cannabis a month to the public, we will continue to set ourselves up for disappointment when we believe that the model is "not about the money". Of course it is, open the eyes man, its America.  Do we think the pharmacist opens his business because he wants to make sure every sick person has access to safe affordable medicine?

 

I want legal dispensaries, I want to sell my overages to them. I want them to host meetings for me to attend. I want a place I can meet like minded people, share stories and genetics. I want to sample other great grower gardens. I want to meet trustworthy adults.  I want to sign petitions and donate free supplies to the needy. I could care less if the place makes huge profits or not. The minute they bad mouth my home growing craft, and compare their deeds with compassion, I'll walk, and indeed, I have.

 

we need to get real, real quick.

[t-pain]

need to come up with a simple guide that explains what happens if the medical marijuana movement fractures.

 

just a simple document that explains pros and cons of each idea. also consequences of each action that any particular group of mmj lobbies takes.

 

for example:

 

when california went full legalization in prop 19, the dispensary lobby voted against it.

result: prop 19 failed.

further result: cities cracked down on dispensaries because marijuana and dispensaries arent legal in california

end result: dispensaries made a bad call and many were shut down and raided.

 

dispensaries arent the only ones making mistakes.

 

another real life example:

parents with sick kids testify before the legislature asking for cbd oil because they heard cbd on CNN.

result: highly restrictive cbd-only laws are enacted that help no one.

further result: parents wasted a year or more time in many states working on legislation that helps no one, including their own children.

end result: parents still cant get cbd for thier children, and they arent protected from arrest even if they get cbd from another state.

 

this is not the fault of the parents. but with some education, some history lessons from other states, and some educated guesses, we can guide people into a more cohesive and beneficial (for all) system of medical marijuana that protects more rights while taking considerations from all parties.

 

its not a fight of caregivers vs dispensaries, its not potheads vs sick kids.

its everyone vs the prohibitionists. the quicker you realize this and stop fighting amongst yourselves, the quicker we can achieve freedom and our rights.

Edited May 11, 2015 by t-pain

[Norby]

maybe dispensary owners are not in it for compassion, like rite aid or cvs. Maybe they are looking at this from a business pov?  In business its their responsibility to

produce profit, at any legal expense.   Rite aid turns sick people away daily, when they cant afford their medication. Drugs for cancer, pain, lupus, MS etc, to the street until you have the cash.

I wondered why we would believe that everyone involved with cannabis is a cool, compassionate person or business?   I used to think that too, until I got my card and met some of

you at these "Compassion Clubs", then I saw clearly that the cannabis crowd has a new face. Its not the face of those people I knew throughout my life.   No other industry is compassionate with goods and services involving drugs, why would a dispensary be expected to be?    When a business proposes to sell a million dollars of cannabis a month to the public, we will continue to set ourselves up for disappointment when we believe that the model is "not about the money". Of course it is, open the eyes man, its America.  Do we think the pharmacist opens his business because he wants to make sure every sick person has access to safe affordable medicine?

 

I want legal dispensaries, I want to sell my overages to them. I want them to host meetings for me to attend. I want a place I can meet like minded people, share stories and genetics. I want to sample other great grower gardens. I want to meet trustworthy adults.  I want to sign petitions and donate free supplies to the needy. I could care less if the place makes huge profits or not. The minute they bad mouth my home growing craft, and compare their deeds with compassion, I'll walk, and indeed, I have.

 

we need to get real, real quick.

Why would you put everyone in a business in a box just because rite aid is a business?  The TRUTH is there is good and bad everywhere, caregivers, politicians, cops, doctors, dispensaries.  Why do you think MJ is any different.  You are being very disingenuous thinking all of anything is anything.

Maybe a story of a bad caregiver started the dispensaries thinking this way and they were actually concerned about a patient.  Why do you think you hold the view of ALL CAREGIVERS EVERYWHERE.  See we can put all caregivers in one box because of an action, but you don't like when that happens because you know you are an individual and what all caregivers do isn't you.  What happens when a caregiver gets busted for selling outside the law?  Do you go and talk to them to keep them all in line?  No you distance yourself.   So why would you think all dispensaries are the same.  you are doing the same thing to them that YOU don't like to be done to you.  Karma complaints.  If all dispensaries are bad then all caregivers must be bad and selling outside the law and making the bad meds you see at dispensaries.  Do you really know how many patients you are throwing under the bus going after dispensaries?  Do you?  Do you really want to cause this split?  PATIENTS WANT CAREGIVERS AND DISPENSARIES.  THE POLICE CAN"T CLOSE THEM DOWN IF THEY DON"T WANT TO GO.

Sorry Mal, still on ignore.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Norby

[Norby]

need to come up with a simple guide that explains what happens if the medical marijuana movement fractures.

 

just a simple document that explains pros and cons of each idea. also consequences of each action that any particular group of mmj lobbies takes.

 

for example:

 

when california went full legalization in prop 19, the dispensary lobby voted against it.

result: prop 19 failed.

further result: cities cracked down on dispensaries because marijuana and dispensaries arent legal in california

end result: dispensaries made a bad call and many were shut down and raided.

 

dispensaries arent the only ones making mistakes.

 

another real life example:

parents with sick kids testify before the legislature asking for cbd oil because they heard cbd on CNN.

result: highly restrictive cbd-only laws are enacted that help no one.

further result: parents wasted a year or more time in many states working on legislation that helps no one, including their own children.

end result: parents still cant get cbd for thier children, and they arent protected from arrest even if they get cbd from another state.

 

this is not the fault of the parents. but with some education, some history lessons from other states, and some educated guesses, we can guide people into a more cohesive and beneficial (for all) system of medical marijuana that protects more rights while taking considerations from all parties.

 

its not a fight of caregivers vs dispensaries, its not potheads vs sick kids.

its everyone vs the prohibitionists. the quicker you realize this and stop fighting amongst yourselves, the quicker we can achieve freedom and our rights.

THANKS!!!  The only way everyone wins is dispenses(stores, not production) caregivers(production not stores) and patients able to choose.  I want farmers markets but would that be a deal breaker with dispensaries because they'd feel taken advantage of since we could just never sell to them and open farmers markets?

United we stand, divided we fall.

Really, thank you, I needed some succinct wording and a positive post for the morning.  I just can not take all the negativity anymore.  Why can't we all just get along, we are all on the same side in this war, remember this IS a war, declared by our gov't against ALL OF US.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Norby

[trichcycler]

right, but here, in social media, we preach to the choir. Same conversations as 40 years ago. some seek to push limits, some are happy with the baby steps. some patients and caregivers actually  support companies who aim to remove cannabis from our gardens, even while enjoying the benefits of medical cannabis themselves.

Some invest cash into their success in hopes for the return profits.

 

we are our own worst enemies.  Our behavior must represent properly to educate the masses. We should seek to be the change we wish to see. Politicians wont listen to a cosplay tye dye, they never have. Each foolish antic we commit in our Act, defendable or not, speaks volumes to them. Court cases are not helping our cause. Plea bargains, pushing limits,  and discovering the defendable areas are  not helping patients get their meds. 

[AbominableDro-Man]

Have to agree with Norb here.

 

There is indeed good and bad wherever you look- sometimes finding the good is more difficult however.

 

But all in all, this isn't a war only again just patients, or just caregivers, or just dispensaries- this is about the governments repeated attempt to drive strife in between even the people who have been fighting for a simple plant to be legalized.

 

Recognize that there simply will not be an option that every single person settles on or agrees with, but that doesn't mean that the difference has to cause controversy.

Edited May 11, 2015 by AbominableDro-Man

[trichcycler]

Why would you put everyone in a business in a box just because rite aid is a business?  The TRUTH is there is good and bad everywhere, caregivers, politicians, cops, doctors, dispensaries.  Why do you think MJ is any different.  You are being very disingenuous thinking all of anything is anything.

Maybe a story of a bad caregiver started the dispensaries thinking this way and they were actually concerned about a patient.  Why do you think you hold the view of ALL CAREGIVERS EVERYWHERE.  See we can put all caregivers in one box because of an action, but you don't like when that happens because you know you are an individual and what all caregivers do isn't you.  What happens when a caregiver gets busted for selling outside the law?  Do you go and talk to them to keep them all in line?  No you distance yourself.   So why would you think all dispensaries are the same.  you are doing the same thing to them that YOU don't like to be done to you.  Karma complaints.  If all dispensaries are bad then all caregivers must be bad and selling outside the law and making the bad meds you see at dispensaries.  Do you really know how many patients you are throwing under the bus going after dispensaries?  Do you?  Do you really want to cause this split?  PATIENTS WANT CAREGIVERS AND DISPENSARIES.  THE POLICE CAN"T CLOSE THEM DOWN IF THEY DON"T WANT TO GO.

Sorry Mal, still on ignore.

I've done no such thing with the valid questions I proposed.

Of course there are good and bad cannabis users, businesses, growers, etc. I suggested that I used to think all of them were good people, until I got my card, then I saw I was wrong. That doesn't throw anyone under the bus except those hurting our cause. I cannot excuse bad behavior just because a person has a marijuana card while in commission. I could have listed every commercial drug retailer as an example of a drug business that is in business to grossly profit from the ills of people, for profit. I mentioned no wrong or right.

If you remove the "right" and "wrong" from the mix I'd feel better. I didn't judge with right and wrong in my post.

I don't think it is wrong to open an illegal dispensary. I don't think its wrong to buy from a dispensary, until our grow rights are removed and the buyers complain of not being able to grow their own anymore.

 

most of the points you speak of are actually questions I proposed, not statements. I don't have the answers, but I do know that if we act responsibly our intentions may be realized more swiftly than the alternative.

[Restorium2]

You have to realize that the free market encourages competition. It's everywhere not just with cannabis. For example; Drug companies are ALWAYS trying to carve out a monopoly against their competition.  Face it, caregivers are the direct competition for dispensaries. Dispensaries will ALWAYS try to take market share from caregivers. To think otherwise is just not understanding the big picture. Most caregivers are just too nice to try to take/keep their market share from being taken from them. They will not go as far as a dispensary will for profits. Put on your adult pants and protect your market share or be on the outside looking in. It IS us against them. It's no one's fault it's like that. It is what it is. Get used to it and then it will not be so painful when they stick the knife in your back AGAIN. Nothing personal, they just want your money because they are just a business. Oh yeah, quit listening to pretenders trying to muddy this simple situation. It's not complicated at all. 

[trichcycler]

you all got my vote for legal dispensaries, legal farmers markets, legal 20 patients, legal marijuana for all. I vote YES!!

It would be great if growers could be legally compensated well for their efforts, awesome for patients to experience the genetic diversification, and the gathering of us all in the same place is powerful.

 

Fact is, they are not legal. Participating in their support today has not yet helped our cause, yet it has damaged us. Yes patients got some bud, I get it. But in the big picture some of these biz may have to join the bandwagon of the big players if they wish to continue making money in the biz. I don't think its wrong for anyone to make money in business, cannabis or otherwise.

[trichcycler]

Have to agree with Norb here.

 

There is indeed good and bad wherever you look- sometimes finding the good is more difficult however.

 

But all in all, this isn't a war only again just patients, or just caregivers, or just dispensaries- this is about the governments repeated attempt to drive strife in between even the people who have been fighting for a simple plant to be legalized.

 

Recognize that there simply will not be an option that every single person settles on or agrees with, but that doesn't mean that the difference has to cause controversy.

I agree with norby also, and you. But I didn't suggest that ALL dispensaries, ALL drug stores, or ALL businesses are bad. Norby suggested that , They are not.

[AbominableDro-Man]

No no, certainly not every single one is bad, we aren't talking about politicians here. I'm sure that there are legitimately compassionate dispensary owners in places.

[beourbud]

Too Many out of state "entrepreneurs" trying to exploit and monopolize our Good Law.

 

The real problem is the out of state product flooding the dispensaries.

 

We Local Folk just want to Grow Our Own or have a CareGiver help us with that.

 

Thats what We the People of Michigan Voted for.

 

Get OFF OUR GRASS

 

Progress = Decriminalization!