Dispensaries Going After Caregivers (Again...)

[beourbud]

You have to realize that the free market encourages competition. It's everywhere not just with cannabis. For example; Drug companies are ALWAYS trying to carve out a monopoly against their competition.  Face it, caregivers are the direct competition for dispensaries. Dispensaries will ALWAYS try to take market share from caregivers. To think otherwise is just not understanding the big picture. Most caregivers are just too nice to try to take/keep their market share from being taken from them. They will not go as far as a dispensary will for profits. Put on your adult pants and protect your market share or be on the outside looking in. It IS us against them. It's no one's fault it's like that. It is what it is. Get used to it and then it will not be so painful when they stick the knife in your back AGAIN. Nothing personal, they just want your money because they are just a business. Oh yeah, quit listening to pretenders trying to muddy this simple situation. It's not complicated at all. 

Right ON

 

Where you been....slacker

[AbominableDro-Man]

Too Many out of state "entrepreneurs" trying to exploit and monopolize our Good Law.

 

The real problem is the out of state product flooding the dispensaries.

 

 

What if they didn't accept out of state meds? legitimate question here.

[Highlander]

We have seen what happens when we allow unlimited profit for health care-related businesses, such as insurance companies, doctors, hospitals, pharmacies, and pharmaceutical companies. That dam has already been broken, and it is nearly impossible to roll-back the clock. Costs are through the roof and increasing all the time.

 

With the MMJ industry in its infancy, we actually have a chance to prevent similar sky-high costs that result when big business enters the picture and tries to squash competition. The purpose of a business is to derive profits for the shareholders. Sure, maybe some "little guys" will try to enter the business for altruistic reasons, but as long as there is unlimited profits to be had, big business interests will try to squash competition and maximize profits.

 

A "nice guy" might try to open a pharmacy next to wal mart, but he isn't going to have any better chance than the two or three hometown pharmacies that closed after Walmart moved in. It is a losing battle because the current laws favor big business.

 

The MMJ industry won't be any different. To think otherwise is to be far too naive.

 

The Canadian prairie plant systems people got a big-business MMJ bill passed in record time, and yet us little guys struggle to even keep the protections we have today and have actually been pushed backwards since 2009. The trend has been towards helping big business at the expense of the individual. Once people recognize that problem, we might be able to make some progress.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Highlander

[+Malamute]

I suppose I should have titled this thread, Going after Home growing and Caregivers. Heh...

 

 

Anyhow,... Arizona is fighting over this right now as well.  Home growing is banned if you live within 25 miles of a dispensary.

 

MPP wants to legalize with home growing and no caps on dispensaries. The commercial business interests wish to keep the cap ondispensaries at the number they currently are under medical(surprise surprise) and ban home growing altogether etc etc.

 

 It is rather ugly down there I must say...

 

 

Marijuana group executive says he will target rival group

 

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona/2015/04/01/marijuana-group-executive-says-will-target-rival-group/70757272/

 

The director of a group behind an initiative to legalize pot in Arizona threatened to target the business affairs of a marijuana dispensary medical director who joined a competing legalization effort, documents obtained by The Arizona Republic show.

 

Two groups have filed paperwork with the Secretary of State to pursue initiatives legalizing recreational marijuana: the influential Washington, D.C.-based Marijuana Policy Project and the newly created Arizonans for Responsible Legalization.

 

The conflict focuses on Gina Berman, medical director at the Giving Tree Wellness Center marijuana dispensary and an emergency room physician. Berman worked with the Marijuana Policy Project's campaign committee before joining Arizonans for Responsible Legalization.

 

The documents shed light on conflicting philosophies behind the proposed ballot measures and offer insight into how the 2016 ballot initiatives may be pitched to Arizona voters.

 

In an e-mail Sunday, Rob Kampia, co-founder and executive director of the Marijuana Policy Project, which has helped with legalization efforts in other states, expressed surprise at Berman's departure.

 

"Obviously, I was shocked to learn that you formed a campaign committee to compete with your own campaign committee," Kampia wrote. He later added that if she filed a competing marijuana initiative with the Secretary of State, "we will specifically launch a series of actions to harm your business, in the spirit of what social-justice movements do to boycott bad companies or bad business owners."

 

Kampia said the group's retaliation would be completely legal.

 

"For example, I'm already budgeting $10,000 (as of Friday) to pay people for 1,000 hours of time to distribute literature outside of your front door, and the literature will not portray you in a kind way," Kampia's said in an e-mail. "We will not target any other dispensaries; we will only target you. (There are other legal actions I have planned, so please just assume that distributing literature will be one of four or five tactics to disrupt your business; again, this will all be legal)."

 

Kampia wrote that the competing initiative would not affect his group's plans.

 

Kampia did not immediately respond to The Republic's request to discuss the dispute.

 

Berman, now chairwoman of the Arizonans for Responsible Legalization, responded Tuesday and urged him to "reconsider this path." Instead, she wrote, he should work with ARL to advance that group's marijuana legalization idea.

 

The groups, she wrote, "disagreed on several" key points on the planned campaigns, most notably, the number of marijuana dispensaries that would be allowed to operate and home-grow provisions. Both groups are finalizing their initiatives.

 

Berman wrote MPP has proposed its legalization initiative allow "an unlimited number of marijuana dispensaries" throughout the state. Such a proposal would be bad, she wrote, because voters "do not support such a radical departure from current law.

"An incremental approach, that caps the number of dispensaries at or slightly above the current number of licensed dispensaries, is the only politically feasible approach," Berman wrote. She added that oversight and monitoring of an unlimited number of dispensaries by public officials would be impossible.

 

Berman also wrote that MPP had proposed "a dramatic deregulation of homegrown marijuana," but speculates that voters would not support that.

 

She wrote it would be a mistake to have competing measures on the 2016 ballot because they would "inevitably dilute the financial resources available to the decriminalization effort in Arizona."

 

She wrote the ARL measure would "carefully regulate and tax adult use" of pot.

 

If Kampia pursues the threat, Berman wrote, "it is very likely that both MPP as an organization and you as an individual will be liable for tortuously interfering with business expectancies."

 

She warned that ARL may also pursue legal claims against MPP if he retaliates.

 

MPP officials have said their initiative might be modeled after the marijuana program in Colorado, which was approved by voters and allows adults age 21 and older to use and possess up to an ounce of pot. The marijuana is purchased at marijuana shops allowed to operate under the law.

 

Such marijuana use remains illegal under the federal Controlled Substances Act, but in 2013 the U.S. Department of Justice said it would allow laws regulating recreational use of marijuana.

 

Mason Tvert, MPP's communications director, declined to discuss Kampia's letter. However, he said, the group was disappointed that Berman abandoned the group, saying "it came out of nowhere."

 

Arizona is among a couple dozen states and the District of Columbia that allow marijuana use for medicinal or recreational reasons. Arizona voters approved the use of medicinal marijuana in 2010 for conditions such as chronic pain and cancer, but the program didn't gain momentum until last year, when dispensaries began to open.

 

About 65,000 people participate in the program, and the state Department of Health Services, which oversees the program, has limited the number of dispensaries to 126 statewide.

[+Malamute]

All over California, cities and counties are banning home growing... or putting insane restrictions on at minimum due to lobbying from groups such as Americans for Safe Access and so many business and commercial interests just like them lobbying with law enforcement to cut out all the little guys in the world from growing their own herb.

 

 

Personal marijuana cultivation likely to be banned in San Joaquin County

 

 

 

Only commercially licensed marijuana growers will be allowed to cultivate the plant in San Joaquin County.

 

At its April 7 meeting, the San Joaquin County Board of Supervisors unanimously approved the introduction of an ordinance that would ban personal cultivation of medical marijuana.

 

The ordinance, proposed by San Joaquin County Sheriff Steve Moore, is scheduled to be adopted by the board at an April 14 meeting.

 

“This is not something that has been a quick reaction to an ongoing issue,” Moore said. “This is a result of a year’s worth of interaction with the public, county staff and the board. It’s a well thought-out, well-prepared and well-planned solution that will benefit law enforcement.”

 

San Joaquin Sheriff’s Capt. Bruce Wuest, a member of the Sheriff’s narcotics task force, said personal cultivation has created a public safety issue, as deputies spend more time than necessary trying to determine if any marijuana found is legal or not.

 

“A lot of times, someone we find growing marijuana makes a medical cultivation claim, and after we investigate it turns out that (the claim) is just a cover for what they’re actually doing,” Wuest said.

 

Over the last two years, Wuest said the Sheriff’s Office has destroyed about 100,000 marijuana plants seized during investigations.

 

There were about 45 cases of firearms found during marijuana investigations as well, he said.

 

In addition, Wuest said there has been one homicide related to marijuana cultivation in the last six years.

 

He said those incidents are usually the result of robberies or growers trying to protect their crop from intruders.

 

“This ordinance would call for a complete ban (on personal cultivation of marijuana),” he said. “It’s simple for law enforcement to investigate and mitigate when we go out to investigate. This will give law enforcement the tools we need when we go into the field.”

 

Local police departments and cities have already begun tackling the marijuana cultivation issue.

 

In January, the Galt City Council approved an ordinance banning cultivation of medical marijuana both indoors and outdoors.

 

Last October, the Lodi City Council adopted an ordinance prohibiting the outdoor cultivation of marijuana, and limited indoor cultivation to the residence or garage of qualified patients or caregivers.

 

“Marijuana cultivation is a public nuisance issue,” Supervisor Bob Elliott said Tuesday. “We’ve heard the reasons here today. This is absolutely the right action to take.”

[GrowGoddess]

Greed is a powerful motivator. People will lie, cheat, and steal in the pursuit of money.

 

Whatever...

 

You are right and it is worse than any of us can imagine. The greatest threat to our country is the power grids going down. They are unprotected, completely open to terrorist strikes, there has already been one strike and the government chose to call it vandalism. Completely ridiculous, underground fiber lines were cut, very professional job and they got away with it. We were very lucky that there was minimal damage. That is the only reason the government claimed vandalism, they know our power grids are unprotected. If all of the power grids were to go down 90 percent of the population would suffer and potentially die within 2 weeks. They still choose to leave the grids unprotected.

 

Sorry for the rant, but here is a whole new definition of greed and evil. See the federal reserve in full operation here. Sorry if it blows your mind and confuses you, but it appears to be the real deal to me.

 

In my opinion, the greatest threat to our country is the federal government, just as our forefathers warned.

 

Edited to fix video link

Edited May 11, 2015 by GrowGoddess

[GrowGoddess]

This is the way I see things

 

[ozzrokk]

You are right and it is worse than any of us can imagine. The greatest threat to our country is the power grids going down. They are unprotected, completely open to terrorist strikes, there has already been one strike and the government chose to call it vandalism. Completely ridiculous, underground fiber lines were cut, very professional job and they got away with it. We were very lucky that there was minimal damage. That is the only reason the government claimed vandalism, they know our power grids are unprotected. If all of the power grids were to go down 90 percent of the population would suffer and potentially die within 2 weeks. They still choose to leave the grids unprotected.

 

Sorry for the rant, but here is a whole new definition of greed and evil. See the federal reserve in full operation here. Sorry if it blows your mind and confuses you, but it appears to be the real deal to me.

 

In my opinion, the greatest threat to our country is the federal government, just as our forefathers warned.

 

Edited to fix video link

 

 

Very true GG..................... And the video is very shocking................ Why it shocks me I do not know but it is very unreal and crazy.................... These people get asked the questions and they either lie, stumble or simply answer honestly and the honest answer is the most shocking...............

[beourbud]

What if they didn't accept out of state meds? legitimate question here.

Michigans Law provides for Patients and CarGivers with up to 5 Patients

 

Dispensaries are Illegal.

Transfers outside your 5....illegal

 

That's what We the People Voted for.

 

Dispensaries are simply the vehicle drug dealers and criminals use to usurp or Good Law

 

Like I said...the dispensaries are flooded with out of state Meds.

 

These criminals won't stop until the monopolize the market and eliminate our Good Law

 

Hell No......Shut thes criminal enterprises Down

 

They have brought the Blue Pox on US

 

They Must and WILL Be Purged

 

Help Keep Michigan and The Children Safe

 

Shut the Dispensaries DOWN

[Norby]

Well it's been fun but I can't take the negativity.  The stress level in the US is already into chronic disease stage and I just don't need anymore.  I am a PATIENT before I am a caregiver.  I WILL NOT try and take away a resource that other PATIENTS rely on and be part of yet another war, especially when this one divides us, the ones the original war was set on.  I am not whining I am just making it known exactly why I won't be here often as I assume if it affects me it affects others.  You should REALLY take a hard long look at what you are trying to accomplish and look to some generals ideas on how to win a war.  They are fragmenting us by danging greed in front of peoples face and saying there can be only one model and people are falling for it.  I can not stand by and watch and I am not eloquent enough whenm I am angry.

Could someone please pm me if the internal war ever ends?

Maybe if we focused less on legal to cut others out and realized this is about EVERYONE getting what they deserve.  Legal only matters when someone is worried about going to jail, other than that it should not divide us.  Unfortunately there are members drivin by greed in the movement.  and the gov't can us that against us by fragmenting us.  remember what " no one shgould go to jail for a plant means".  It menas no one, greedy or not.  Remember that.

I will never give up my goal of freedom for everyone when told that is not one of the choices.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Norby

[suneday11]

Edited May 12, 2015 by suneday11

[beourbud]

Ya Mon Be Happy it aint 2007

 

Be Happy You can Now Grow Your Own  

Edited May 12, 2015 by beourbud

[AbominableDro-Man]

Michigans Law provides for Patients and CarGivers with up to 5 Patients

 

Dispensaries are Illegal.

Transfers outside your 5....illegal

 

That's what We the People Voted for.

 

Dispensaries are simply the vehicle drug dealers and criminals use to usurp or Good Law

 

Like I said...the dispensaries are flooded with out of state Meds.

 

These criminals won't stop until the monopolize the market and eliminate our Good Law

 

Hell No......Shut thes criminal enterprises Down

 

They have brought the Blue Pox on US

 

They Must and WILL Be Purged

 

Help Keep Michigan and The Children Safe

 

Shut the Dispensaries DOWN

Like a politician, you skirted around the question.  I'm well aware of the legalities behind the amount of patients one is allowed to serve, but for some reason I can't help but think this internet lynch mob you're leading is being drummed up for some other reason.

 

Personally, I follow each of the laws, but why is it so impossible for a dispensary to coexist with growers? 

 

Suppose what I'm asking here- If dispensaries are made legal and the like, but you are allowed to maintain your grows etc, what is so wrong with them? What if they aren't allowed to accept out of state meds but are instead required to stem from local sources? Sources that SHOULD be tested if they are going to be consumed by people in my opinion, just like the food on the shelf in the grocery store and knowing what's in it, I like to know what's in what I'm smoking.

[trichcycler]

(stem from local sources) :Ppun

[t-pain]

food in the grocery store isnt even tested for e. coli!

 

its only after someone (or really, at least 20-50) gets sick that they go looking for the food that caused the sickness.

[pic book]

greed trumps all, as described in econ 101.  rippers are the rule not the exception.  Gordon Gecko was not a fool.  If you doubt it, fool, just leave your garden unfenced....whether out of lazienss, stupidity or compassion, the whole thing will be gone and you won't have a bud to your name.  laws place limits on greed (no trespassing, no home invasions) to apportion how much each party gets of the universal pie, and keeps.  the shape of those laws depends on who has the better-connected lobbyists and sharper lawyers and the bigger bankroll and a better spin on their story to dupe fools who think everybody wants a level playing field...after they have theirs.  everybody wants to f the pretty lady, to pissss, to eat, and to take advantage, until they have enuf and have their own foundation.  Compassion was what Christ walked, and look at what compasssion got him.  The peeps who give, do so out of excess largesse, usually via the tax advantages of foundations. And those who do self-less acts of compassion are generally tainted by the gospel of tax advantage...AFTER the fortune has been made; and it was not made by compassion.  Show me fortunes made by compassion?  They were made by operators taking advantage of every edge, legal as well as those edges for which they were not caught.

Yeah their are exceptions, for a minute.  then it's back to greed as usual.

Edited May 12, 2015 by pic book

[trichcycler]

Just In !!  

Forum opinions matter more to posters than politicians. Some will support dispensaries and some will not.  Some will demand tested meds, others wont.  

 

Who do we think is supporting the big bad wolves anyways --with their cash?  Its not caregivers !

 

Dispensaries seem to be fully funded by patient purchases. Patients are already supporting the dispensary model.  A few caregivers seem  concerned for their well being in the matter.   Exchanging insults between a few posters who have solid opinions on the matter is futile. If millionaires want cannabis money, they will buy the opportunity. They already have patients in their pockets supporting the whole model, and the patients just want it cleaned up and safe.  

  I have never seen the wealthy allow us to vote their wealth away, and I suspect the wealthy will again get their way with our Act, regardless of how much we push our opinions on (caregivers) here.  I've seen similar threads get totally smashed by leaders here, and that is not inviting to patient opinion.

 

But, I do see  a better opportunity for understanding if we allow all patients to freely share their reasons why they would forego our home grow rights for their club provisions, if they want to pay more for tests, and a whole bunch of other concerns too.

 

I see valid points on both sides of the issues. I don't know what the answer is. I do know that "answers" in the cannabis communities can change from day to day. Have no worries, like MI weather, if you don't like their opinion on Monday, check again in an hour

 

I hope this thread does not go awry with the few adamantly opposed bullies. I  am interested in the supporters' views today.

 

Peace

[Norby]

Then caregivers and dispensaries better get together for the sake of the patients.

There is only one model that will work.  Caregivers sell to dispensaries who can't produce.  I could sell 2 oz at refg price and sell 1 oz for less to go to fixed income.  Dispenses could have a list of fixed income so that everyone can afford their meds.  If a caregiver gives 5 oz free to his patients to supply a dispense than some patients get free meds to sign.  If the dispenses won't buy from the caregiver then the caregiver will go out of business and protect the patients by checking med quality.  This way people like me who produce top shelf meds can knock out the lowest quality by serving more patients.  Some get the convenience of a store at a reduced rate for ssi etc. and then rich people can get the benefit of any store they want, oils, has, medibles etc. and caregivers who don't do that stuff won't matter.  Does anyone not realize that this is the model that serves EVERYONE.  If it isn't doable then the gov't WILL make the decision and no one wants that.  Patients dispenses or caregivers.  This is the only way that everyone but the bad growers and dispenses want.  Some dispenses test and people who want testing can go there.  people who want it cheaper can go to places that don't test.  I do not understand why no one is pitching this.  Anything else SEEMS to me to be greed.  It cuts someone's wants out of the picture. I don't understand the logic.  IF we could all come together and get the word out this is what we could get.  If not then it's time for a revolution, period.  Because the problem is way too deep then.

[trichcycler]

 because the whole thing is highly suspicious and most likely illegal, maybe?

 

it can only work if its transparent, not back alley brick swaps again.

 

it is not working in spite of illegal sales to illegal dispensaries. it does need to get it's Act together soon, before someone does it for us as Norby suggested.

[+Malamute]

Then caregivers and dispensaries better get together for the sake of the patients.

There is only one model that will work.  Caregivers sell to dispensaries who can't produce.  I could sell 2 oz at refg price and sell 1 oz for less to go to fixed income.  Dispenses could have a list of fixed income so that everyone can afford their meds.  If a caregiver gives 5 oz free to his patients to supply a dispense than some patients get free meds to sign.  If the dispenses won't buy from the caregiver then the caregiver will go out of business and protect the patients by checking med quality.  This way people like me who produce top shelf meds can knock out the lowest quality by serving more patients.  Some get the convenience of a store at a reduced rate for ssi etc. and then rich people can get the benefit of any store they want, oils, has, medibles etc. and caregivers who don't do that stuff won't matter.  Does anyone not realize that this is the model that serves EVERYONE.  If it isn't doable then the gov't WILL make the decision and no one wants that.  Patients dispenses or caregivers.  This is the only way that everyone but the bad growers and dispenses want.  Some dispenses test and people who want testing can go there.  people who want it cheaper can go to places that don't test.  I do not understand why no one is pitching this.  Anything else SEEMS to me to be greed.  It cuts someone's wants out of the picture. I don't understand the logic.  IF we could all come together and get the word out this is what we could get.  If not then it's time for a revolution, period.  Because the problem is way too deep then.

 

 

 Earth to Norby. Earth to Norby.

 

Utopia doesn't exist...

 

There is no chance of that ever happening in this state under republican ;leadership, and likely democratic leadership at that.  They will not pass what we want.  We have to run a ballot initiative to get what we want, which wont last because of the republican led government in Michigan will change it by a death of a thousand cuts( or possibly one single bludgeon).

 

Right now, right this minute, the "community" is writing a legalization law that does not fit your agenda. It is mostly written by commercial interested people and no sales for the common joe/jane allowed.  This is what I fight against as a serious minority voice. 

 

Also, talk about regulations you just laid out Norby. Ikes.  That is an extensive law forcing people to do all those things. The administrative rules and oversight would be voluminous.  I prefer much less regulation than that even.  Forcing people to give away their product AND pay taxes. Yet no insurance coverage even?  The thought is nice. The reality is much different.

[+Malamute]

The discussion in Lansing is moving more towards cutting out caregivers and allowing large grows instead.  Which then leads to removal of home growing.

 

I am the last to make a slippery slope argument,... this is just a pre proven, pre done concept that has been happening over and over again across the country and no slope here. Smooth driving like going through Nebraska.

 

 

 We have 3 legalization initiatives brewing in this state, not one single one allows sales for the little guy. 

 

 One is insanely restricted corporate whoredom. Second one is so restrictive a boa constrictor even says WTF. Third one is the community in general and doesn't allow proper sales and comes with absolutely ludicrous regulations and requirements(imo of course).

 

 

 And lastly, Caregivers are insanely regulated as is.  Ever read the Act.  Enclosedlocked this and that and ONLY 2.5 oz a patient, and  only 5 pqatients and no felonies and etc etc etc.  I am so tired of people saying CG's aren't regulated.

[trichcycler]

Some say illegal, some say unregulated, who can be sure?

good point!

 

the registration process itself goes a long way in protecting caregivers when we sell to a patient. When they do not register patients they have no way of verifying the patient info, but who the heck cares anymore but the police really. I see.

 

If they are allowed to sell to more than five patients and a caregiver cannot, what is there left to say? I suspect dispensaries will be allowed to sell to more because it will be taxed, and a cg transaction is not.

[trichcycler]

I did say "if they are allowed". I mean legally allowed in the future, as now they are not allowed in all areas of the state, and those areas cite the law and say they are illegal.

 

but when they are no longer outlaws, they will be taxed no doubt, an incentive for the man to allow them to sell all of the mj taxed rather than some of it untaxed by caregivers. Patients have options, and those include relatively low cannabis costs from many caregivers. I've seen $150 ounce! that's less than I paid 10 yrs ago!

 

I think there are some sort of "taxing" efforts with the ones allowed to stay open personally. I see one raided before it even opens and another sets up shop in the same building with no issues. nepotism maybe? always good to build decks and clean pools for cops and prosecutors....

Edited May 13, 2015 by grassmatch

[Norby]

They are together, look outside. Why invite the government in?

I don't know if you noticed but they are coming whether anyone likes it or not.  Who's inviting?  I wish they'd just leave us the fuk alone but that doesn't seem to be happening.  And they will do as they please and noone but the dispensaries(some) and testing labs will win then.

Edited May 13, 2015 by Norby

[Norby]

In fact, if this model works to provide free medication to patients, why isn't it working now? The dispensaries are still operating all over the state, as are the labs, totally unregulated. Where is the flaw in the logic here?

They have to save for lawyers as do the caregivers supplying them.  Maybe they need to use it all in meds to deal with the stress?  Ask them.  And I THINK JC3 does.

It's funny.  the way they are treated around here keeps them from interacting here.  Where is everyone supposed to get together.  Right now only people who can deal with the illegality are in this relationship.  Not me.

your definition of "all over the state" intrigues me.  Did you mean in certain places in the state?

Edited May 13, 2015 by Norby