Simpson Oil Please Help

[Stargazer056]

Hello... My dad has stage 4 prostate cancer which basically means it has spread like wildfire. But it hasn't spread to organs. He is on chemo and has done radiation. It looks to me like the chemo and other drugs are killing him. So I started investigating alternatives. Rick Sinpson oil came up repeatedly. I have no idea if it can be purchased in MIchigan or not (I have read conflicting information). I know nothing about MJ at all but I think this oil might help him but I don't know how to get my hands on it! Anyone have any thoughts or experience. I put growgoddess in the title because I saw she has some experience. I guess I could try to make it myself but I don't even know which part of the plant to use! Thank you for your help. Cancer sucks!

[suneday11]

Sorry about the news. Growing your own and making the oil is best and safest. Typically an alcohol is used to extract cannabinoids, terpenes, waxes, and other little junk and fats.

 

You can find info in different threads on this forum. lots of links to articles and videos. Good luck. I hope GG can direct you to the right place.

Edited July 20, 2015 by suneday11

[Stargazer056]

Thanks Suneday... I don't have time to grow my own. It's a little overwhelming given I know virtually 0! But I will search....

[suneday11]

Caregiver could be your answer, but I'd caution you in that search. Find someone with experience.

 

I should mention(if you don't already have it worked out) that your dad needs to get his paperwork in asap. The faster he and/or a cg get his card, the better.

Edited July 21, 2015 by suneday11

[t-pain]

right. get him registered and get his hard card fast.

 

then , if you cant wait for a grow, get some money ready and buy buy buy, either bud or oil.

i recommend buying bud and making your own oil, that way you know exactly whats going into it and you know it has medical properties instead of just some olive oil snake oil.

 

you can buy oil from someone reputable, but the only person i'd say was reputable in this wild world would be growgoddess, and i believe she is not currently giving oil to anyone due to the stupid coa decision.

 

if you do decide to buy oil from someone, try asking if you can watch them make it. just so many people have been taken, its terrible.

[Willy]

simple test, light it ,, if it fizzles and sparks its got contaminants, or excess iso/alcohol....just a thought.. put it on   foil and put the lighter under it.. it should melt and smoke.. nothing more..

Edited July 21, 2015 by Willy

[Stargazer056]

I was a little confused on if oil is legal in MI. I guess the answer is no:/. I was hoping it could be purchased at a dispensary.

[t-pain]

oil is legal in michigan (i am no lawyer, dont take this as legal advice), but the courts and police are having a field day with it. so thats why some members here are staying EXTRA safe.

 

you will be able to find oil in dispensaries and from caregivers though. stay safe.

[trichcycler]

an ounce of oil may yield 4-8 grams of oil. I've read of cancer patients ingesting 1-2 grams daily. A pound or more a month may be necessary unless only palliative relief is sought. I've seen oil sell for as little as $35 and as much as $100 per gram. Its recommended that you grow your own to offset those costs..... or find a generous experienced caregiver to supply it.

 

It could take weeks to get a doctor appointment/certification for medical cannabis. Name your city and we'll go to work to find you a doctor, and maybe some help.

[phaquetoo]

oil is legal in michigan (i am no lawyer, dont take this as legal advice), but the courts and police are having a field day with it. so thats why some members here are staying EXTRA safe.

 

you will be able to find oil in dispensaries and from caregivers though. stay safe.

The coa ruling makes it ilegal in this state, and that is what you should say not that it is legal, and your right your not an attny but it sounds like you are working for one!

[phaquetoo]

I was a little confused on if oil is legal in MI. I guess the answer is no:/. I was hoping it could be purchased at a dispensary.

Although it is ilegal in the state at this time, some folks will make it for a cancer pt such as your father, it does take quite alot of flowers and sugar leafs from the plant to make enough to keep up the regimine a person at stage 4 would need!  You came to the right place and we have a personal message system in place here so you can ask questions to people in private instead of open forum,

 

alot of people and maybe even gg will not answer this thread because you are new here and po po likes to come in here and find stuff out, im sorry to say to call gg out in  your title may not have been wise, ask the mods to remove that quickly, gg will see this thread.

 

Peace

some one who realy cares!

[phaquetoo]

Sorry, phaquetoo, but the Carruthers ruling is far more nuanced than you'd expect. The situation is certainly not as clear cut as you claim, and the COA specifically allowed for these materials under affirmative defense, and patients are at risk today on this subject.

so are you saying it is legal to a new pt?

[phaquetoo]

I am saying that what t-pain said is accurate at this time. It is legal, but very risky due to confusing and erroneous case law that has been established by the COA, and is being tested in a truly ignorant and illegal manner in a few areas in the state. Any patient that needs oil for medicine should be aware that patients have ongoing cases on this subject, and the law is not yet settled.

zap no offense but to me it sounds like you are talking out of both sides of your mouth.  I dont want this person to not be able to get oil for her father, but she needs to know the coa ruling techicaly made it ilegal over nite, is it so hard to say if you get caught you will get arrested?  Im a big fan of oil!

 

I dont like to tell people that dont know our law that it is ok and and it is legal, if the coa said it is ilegal like all of the other thing. ie tinctures, butter, brownies, they should be told the court of appeals says it is ilegal!

 

I like oil and would love it to be legal and beleive it will be one day, maybe not to make at home but to purchase from a despense or what ever the gov is gonna pick to screw the pt's

 

http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/topic/47405-i-would-just-like-to-share/

 

I beleive in oil and have been experimenting for yrs, but I dont sell it or give it away because of the ruling!

 

Peace

 

edit= what do I have to do make a report about you to you?

Edited July 21, 2015 by phaquetoo

[phaquetoo]

The poster has the real information to make the decision now. As we all know, there are various risks of using cannabis as medicine under certain circumstances, and this is no different. Patients and their caregivers must be aware of the current issues to help define their own personal limitations.

 

 

Remember, there was a significant period of time after the COA's Koon decision that it was "illegal" for patients to drive in Michigan also.

Fair enough!

 

Peace

[t-pain]

I dont like to tell people that dont know our law that it is ok and and it is legal, if the coa said it is ilegal like all of the other thing. ie tinctures, butter, brownies, they should be told the court of appeals says it is ilegal!

hi

 

the coa opinion is such a big mix of crap its hard to fully understand it.

http://publicdocs.courts.mi.gov:81/Opinions/Final/COA/20130711_C309987(37)_RPTR_105o-309987-FINAL.PDF

 

first, butter and edibles are specifically allowed by the coa, as long as they are made from dried leaf or flower:

Our interpretation also does not preclude the medical use of marijuana by ingestion of

edible products; to the contrary, that use is authorized by the MMMA, within the statutory limitations, provided that the edible product is a “mixture or preparation” of “the dried leaves and flowers of the marihuana plant,” rather than of the more potent THC that is extracted from

marijuana resin. MCL 333.26423(k). Again, we find that judgment of the drafters of the

MMMA, in so defining “usable marihuana,” to be an appropriate exercise of their duty to define

the parameters of the legal use of marijuana for medical purposes.

see, you think in your head that "more potent thc extracted from resin" comes from the flower. but the coa thinks that comes from the stalks.

Additionally, the MMMA separately defines “usable marihuana” as follows:

“Usable marihuana” means the dried leaves and flowers of the marihuana

plant, and any mixture or preparation thereof, but does not include the seeds, stalks, and roots of the plant. [MCL 333.26423(k).]

second, the coa took the word "resin" uttered by the defendants lawyers as meaning RESIN, as in the resin from the mature stalks of the plant.

V. THE BROWNIES WERE NOT USABLE MARIJUANA UNDER THE MMMA.

As noted, the MMMA separately defines “marihuana” and “usable marihuana.” Notably,

the definition of “marihuana” includes “all parts” of the cannabis plant, as well as “the resin

extracted from any part of the plant; and every compound, manufacture, salt, derivative, mixture,

or preparation of the plant or its seeds or resin.” MCL 333.7106(3). The definition specifically

excludes the “mature stalks” of the plant “except the resin extracted therefrom.” Id. By virtue of that exception, therefore, resin extracted from mature stalks is also expressly included within the definition of “marihuana.” There is no dispute that both the raw marijuana and the brownies

found in defendant’s possession constitute marijuana under the MMMA

 

By contrast, however, the definition of “usable marihuana” under the MMMA does not

include “all parts” of the cannabis plant. More to the point, it specifically does not include “the resin extracted from” the cannabis plant.

 

Rather, we hold, also as an issue of first impression, that an edible product made with THC extracted from marijuana resin is not usable marijuana under the MMMA.

what it boils down to , is the defendant and his lawyer said the word resin, which the coa read as a legal term found in the phc as being resin from the stalks.

 

These principles, and our reading of the MMMA, thus convince us that edible products

made with THC extracted from marijuana resin are not usable marijuana under the MMMA.

Simply put, the evidence before this Court indicates that the brownies were not a “mixture or

preparation” of “dried leaves and flowers of the marihuana plant.”

so without any evidence, relying only on testimony of words from the defense, the coa found that brownies were made from resin of the plant/stalks instead of from the leaves / flowers.

 

 

 

carruthers ruling probably wont be appealed because he was over the weight either way. better cases are forming for appeals.

 

just remember dont use those roots or stalks to make mixtures or preparations...

 

 

what it all all means is that what we know as "oil", which we know to be made from flowers, is considered usable marihuana in the mmma.

[t-pain]

an ounce of oil may yield 4-8 grams of oil.

grass needs to go easy on the oil

[trichcycler]

good spelling catch! I have no excuse for my misdeeds. I shall accept the flogging at sun down.

[Stargazer056]

Haha yes t-pain but I caught grassmatches drift:).

 

After reading all these posts I think making it myself is the way to go. I just need to double check legality. Thank you all for your help. I found a few doctors in Oakland County so I think I know what to do.

[GrowGoddess]

Thanks Suneday... I don't have time to grow my own. It's a little overwhelming given I know virtually 0! But I will search....

 

I would be happy to help any way that I can, but to reiterate what has already been mentioned, I don't sell oil and no longer supply it. After the COA ruling deeming concentrates illegal I shut down my grow room that was dedicated to making oil.

 

There are good caregivers that could potentially provide premium oil. Other than that, I only know of one way to get good, quality oil and that is starting with quality buds (flowers). Whether you grow it or buy it, it is best to have some that are high quality and potent. Best to mix a few strains together. I recommend the RSO method for beginners for the best success in treating cancer. I recommend using 99% isopropyl alcohol. If you wish to choose a more safe solvent, depending on the strains, I would recommend KleenXtract (200 proof ethanol). As long as you are using good product, use the correct equpment recommended, and don't over cook the product, you would have more success in producing a high quality product than what you would find available online or at a dispensary. I am confident in this.

 

I have a lot of information about making the oil in my blogs. If you would like more information, send me a PM.

Good luck to you, RSO can make a difference.

[phaquetoo]

hi

 

the coa opinion is such a big mix of crap its hard to fully understand it.

http://publicdocs.courts.mi.gov:81/Opinions/Final/COA/20130711_C309987(37)_RPTR_105o-309987-FINAL.PDF

 

first, butter and edibles are specifically allowed by the coa, as long as they are made from dried leaf or flower:

 

see, you think in your head that "more potent thc extracted from resin" comes from the flower. but the coa thinks that comes from the stalks.

 

second, the coa took the word "resin" uttered by the defendants lawyers as meaning RESIN, as in the resin from the mature stalks of the plant.

 

what it boils down to , is the defendant and his lawyer said the word resin, which the coa read as a legal term found in the phc as being resin from the stalks.

 

 

so without any evidence, relying only on testimony of words from the defense, the coa found that brownies were made from resin of the plant/stalks instead of from the leaves / flowers.

 

 

 

carruthers ruling probably wont be appealed because he was over the weight either way. better cases are forming for appeals.

 

just remember dont use those roots or stalks to make mixtures or preparations...

 

 

what it all all means is that what we know as "oil", which we know to be made from flowers, is considered usable marihuana in the mmma.

Ok thank you so much for defining what the coa said, or ment to say or what ever they said!

I had to take a break just to not understand it more!

 

Bottom line people are being arrested or blowing up their homes for oil, with the wording in that jibber jash I would not feel safe supplying  oil to any one other than my close imediate family would you?

 

What does this old cogger have to do to get oil out of the stalk?  Is it like a maple tree put a spout in it and collect RESIN

I am very Sorry to the op for making a mess out of your thread, I hope you can get some one to help you get what your father needs!  I so feel for you!

 

Peace

Jim

[t-pain]

Bottom line people are being arrested or blowing up their homes for oil, with the wording in that jibber jash I would not feel safe supplying  oil to any one other than my close imediate family would you?

i personally would not worry about supplying 2.5oz or less of oil to my registered patient.

 

the only cases i am aware of are butter case in grand rapids, which is overweight (1 pound of butter is more than 2.5oz). and then the smudge max case which they are trying to say oil is an analogue because "unknown origin" was on the lab report.

 

I am very Sorry to the op for making a mess out of your thread, I hope you can get some one to help you get what your father needs!  I so feel for you!

its good to get these issues about oil out. newspapers even said edibles were illegal multiple times, its hard to convince people otherwise. who would you rather believe, the COA opinion or some newspaper reporter who cant even bother to read the coa opinion?

 

good luck to OP's father. it might be worth trying suppository form, i've heard from other patients that they get more of a body high than a head high when using suppositories. head high can scare off some people from further treatment, but then again so can suppositories! at least i remember someone else saying you absorb more thc/cbd etc from suppository vs smoking/eating, because it goes straight into the blood instead of being exhaled or processed by kidney/intestine.

[GregS]

I believe much of the concern over chemically extracted oil can be resolved by using kief hash instead. It may not be quite so concentrated, but is nonetheless very potent. It is necessary to bake it a little while to decarboxylize and sterilize it. There is no argument that it requires a less hazardous method, assuring that there are no adulterants remaining in the end product, which is a concern when using short chain hydrocarbons to perform an extraction if not adequately removed.

 

Tell me please, is there some chemical change that is arrived at using solvents that somehow make extracted oil superior to the naturally occurring and unadulterated compounds found on flowers and in trichomes? Sure it's great to go with the newest wiz bang methods, but is it worth the risk of harm, both in being burned or otherwise physically injured, and arguing the point with a police officer or a judge?

That being said, it is apparent to me in Carruthers that the court does not consider extract, in and of itself, to be illegal to use. It is a preparation thereof. I do think it twisted that they insist on counting cooking ingredients as part of the weight involved. A brownie mix is not a drug, last I checked.

[t-pain]

i still dont know why people just dont eat the raw buds.

 

eat the buds or eat the extracts, its the same to me

unless you want it to be portable in a pen, then obviously, the oil would win.

[trichcycler]

No chemical change is taking place, or making the concentrate more "superior" per say.  I love the dry sift personally, and my patients treat it like dessert. They should all have their own 13$ sifter and be making their own as needed.  

 

Using solvent will allow specific compound extraction leaving behind unwanted(?) constituents. This will account for a higher "potency" by weight.  I'm pretty sure today that the "whole plant" approach is the healthier alternative when ingestion is the mode of dosing. Ancients used simple olive oil, discarded the spent plant material and dosed freely with the activate oil, both internal and externally. The "whole dried flower tops of cannabis" were used. This included all of the plant waxes and chlorophyll  contained within. I am convinced nothing has improved with time in this area concerning very potent natural cannabis medicine.

 

When cannabis extract is to be injected directly into human cells I can understand fully why these compounds would need to be clarified and specific. While inhaling the vapors of either solvent extracted and dry sift the effects are the same for me, I think the waxes in the dry sift are a flavor treat.

 

I instruct my patients to ignore butane and alcohol all together until they can identify the amount used, compared to the amount reclaimed. No amount of solvent remaining in a finished product is acceptable. ( cannabis oil is never runny @ room temp fyi)  

I have ever heard of an injury happening while dry sifting, hash bagging.

 

Dry sift can be used in all recipe's, can be melted in a pat of butter before use, will dissolve in milk/cream too. theres already some in the rolling tray, on the scissors, and all over the trim areas. I can hardly help myself from consuming the stuff incidentally ! highly recommended !

[trichcycler]

when I eat buds my stomach turns inside out.

when I eat oil my brain does the same, but my tummy feels fine.

 

when I make my bhang(ish) its all the same to me, buds, oil, or kief, delicious and a pleasure.