Dr Eden Wells And Flint's Poisoned Water

[Highlander]

I think hundreds or thousands of kids with permanent brain damage, especially when caused by government cost-cutting measures, is a bigger issue than any of these.

 

I agree that Flint has a major issue with clean drinking water.  But the issue isn't confined to the source of the water.  A bigger issue is that Flint has an aging municipal water network, and an aging housing stock.  You could deliver pure RO water to Flint homes, but many would still suffer from elevated lead (not to mention copper) in drinking water.  Providing clean water is only the tip of the iceburg.  Efforts need to be made at the individual home level.  It would be fairly easy and inexpensive to give lead filters to people in Flint to purify water.  Other issues are not so easily solved.

 

Unfortunately, most of the people who rent older homes in Flint are low-income and have little education.  Even landlords seem to fall into this boat.

 

The EPA requires that any landlord who rents a home or unit in a multi-family complex (built before 1978) provide the informational lead pamphlet regarding addressing lead in homes.  Few comply.  And that said, even if a landlord gives the pamphlet to a new renter, there is little chance that the uneducated renter will even understand the issue.   I've done inspections on probably over 1,200 rental homes and rental units in Flint for various investors and other groups, including the Mott Foundation, UM-Flint, MSU, HUD, FHA, and Habitat for Humanity.  In just about every case, I've found high levels of lead dust due to window sashes abrading on each other and the effects of doors sliding into door jambs.

 

Almost invariably, I've found issues regarding elevated lead in soil due to years of rainwater leaching lead from exterior paint.

 

I think it's great that Flint is getting some attention for the drinking water issue.  But there seems to be a lack of emphasis on what, in my opinion, is a larger issue, which is lead exposure at individual homes related to lead paint.

 

And don't even get me started on asbestos.  I've been through many rental homes in Flint where the copper pipes thieves stripped asbestos insulation off the piping looking for copper and just left heaps of asbestos insulation on the basement floor.  Then the landlord simply sweeps it up and tosses it in the trash, leaving asbestos fibers floating around to be inhaled for years to come.

[Restorium2]

We need to focus on the fact that Snyder tried to save money by switching to the Flint River as a drinking water source for the public. There were certainly mistakes made that can be verified. He already fired the guy he hired to do the job of deciding if the water was safe. So guilt has been assumed. Anyone who can prove their children had high lead levels because of that is needing some serious help from Snyder. Their children will deserve to have every advantage to overcome what he did to them. Snyder has been known to hand out special high salaries to his buddies he puts in positions. Upwards of $300,000 a year. He's easy with our tax dollars when it comes to his buddies but cheap when it comes to children's drinking water. 

[t-pain]

remember, the people of michigan rejected the emergency financial manager law.

 

the legislature quickly made it back into law. so their hands have this blood on it too.

[solabeirtan]

    Here is the gist of  their grand scheme to abscond with the City of Detroits' Water* Services including the in place portions  that were already serving over 4 million customers including Flint who I believe then sold it* to Lapeer and Genesee Cos.    Incidentaly this was already attempted in 1963 when George Romney was Governor but never materialized due to 'profiteering' !

 

   Here is the real slap in the face, back in 2002 (Granholm as gov)  Genesee County (Flint is in) had already bought 326 acres of land on Lake Huron from Detroit Edison for the purpose of installing a new water source for $2.7 million presumably in Sanilac County next to Lapeer Co which is next to Genesee Co. Still the key piece and for reference I will just call it the Genesee Beach or just G.Beach.  

 

Here's where it gets a little cloudy In May 2007 the Genesee Co Drain Commissioner and surprize! the Oakland Co Drain Commissioner come up with the name Karegondi Regional Water Planning Commision with their only asset being G.Beach, besides pipe dreams or in their lingo " fore runner planning group for the future 'Authority' " a Municipal Corporation to be  known as the 'Karegondi Water Authority'. 

 

need some sleeep , more later...

 

   ...In my opinion this is the sole property of Genesee County. It was paid for with the money generated by the property owners who pay property taxes and possibly the citizens who pay income taxes because thatis where the money came from. 

Edited January 8, 2016 by solabeirtan

[knucklehead bob]

Arrest of Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder Urged After Contaminated-Water Scandal Implicates Top Staffers

 

Calls for Michigan Governor Rick Snyder’s ouster—and arrest—are growing after internal emails showed that his high-level staffers were aware of lead poisoning in Flint’s public water supply six months before the administration declared a state of emergency - See more at: http://www.healthnutnews.com/arrest-of-michigan-gov-rick-snyder-urged-after-contaminated-water-scandal-implicates-top-staffers/#sthash.CJTZiIw1.dpuf

[Wild Bill]

I think hundreds or thousands of kids with permanent brain damage, especially when caused by government cost-cutting measures, is a bigger issue than any of these.

 

They can always get jobs in the Michigan Legislature and Court of Appeals.

[trichcycler]

[solabeirtan]

  Bank Bailouts to patch the hole they blew in the housing bubble. Which was more like blowing out all four tires in a brand new 4 wheel drive truck with a couple a  1800hp motors at the starting line of Detroit Dragway before the christmas tree hit the green light. We bailed em out bought em some new tires then threw in like a free tank of Quantative Easing to the tune of a 40 billion check every month for about six years. Just so they could do a lil joy ridin, on our dime of course.  What did we get? Not much! Property taxes inflated as a set of Dick Cepek 40" Monster Mudders and stayed inflated for several years as the banks butts were growing bigger than ever. Meanwhile we couldn't even get 2 cents on a C-note for interest on our dwindling savings.

 

   Then we get these hoodlum vulture capitalists masquerading as politicians to come in and turn off our water, extorting money that nobody has and then hook the pipe up to a sewer so they can abscond with our water lines and sell off our Lake Water to their rich freinds.   

 

    One things for sure this game is rigged and it's high time we got even a little fare play. Fact it's lonnnnnnggg overdue.  Time for us to do a little Bern, Like in Bernie!

 

    So what time is it? The Ricky Time show is looking pretty sad. It's time to change the channel!  He new all along what the score was.  He appointed the EM in Flint the day the new mayor was to take office. Thing is he wasn't the only one...   The nuts and bolts it: If your building a new line from the Lake, what was the sense in cutting off the spigot till you bring in the new line.  

Imagine?  a State of Emergency...  and no water...   Help Flint ... cause Ricky won't...  

Edited January 10, 2016 by solabeirtan

[t-pain]

ordinary lead in water maybe safe for bath water (i have my doubts), but the corrosive water that flint was pumping out was definitely NOT SAFE for baths/showers.

 

here it is right from cdc

 

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/csem/csem.asp?csem=7&po=6

 

Today almost everyone is exposed to environmental lead. Exposure to lead and lead chemicals can occur through inhalation, ingestion and dermal contact.

 

Dermal exposure plays a role for exposure to organic lead among workers, but is not considered a significant pathway for the general population.

 

Organic lead may be absorbed directly through the skin.

Organic lead (tetramethyllead) is more likely to be absorbed through the skin than inorganic lead.

 

Dermal exposure is most likely among people who work with lead.

 

 

 

heres a case study of a teacher in 1932 who used a hair dye which had lead in it.

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=292889

the lead was absorbed via skin. from a liquid source.

 

 

http://www.lead.org.au/lanv4n4/lanv4n4-18.html

 

The family then purchased a home lead test kit called LeadCheck Swabs to test their ceramic ware. When her dishes tested negative for lead, Mrs. Thomas then used a LeadCheck Swab on the bathtub the only remaining item in the house not yet tested for lead. The swab immediately turned pink, indicating the tub was leaching dangerous levels of lead. Every time the children bathed in the tub and played with their toys, they ingested lead simply by touching the tub and putting their wet fingers and toys in their mouths. The children ceased using the tub for their baths and within a few months their blood lead levels returned to nearly 10 micrograms per decilitre.

 

remember when children take baths they will touch the water with their hands and then touch their eyes/nose or mouth. getting lead contaminated water into their bodies quite by accident.

 

lead in water? stay far away.

[t-pain]

http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2016/01/governor_wants_to_give_flint_m.html

 

"The other thing that I want to work with the mayor on very closely is how we can transition additional authorities to the mayor," Snyder said. "Because my view is I want to be partnering with the elected official, which is the mayor.

so what is snyder doing exactly?

 

running a state or running flint? why is he talking to a mayor at all?

this, this is what michigan elected snyder to do? run flint? what the flower is going on?

 

it reads like he is following the playbook he wrote two or three years ago.

 

install emergency manager, privatize whatever can be privatized, declare _insert city_ a winner, then show up in the press to give control back to the democratically elected mayor and smile for the cameras.

 

except for the whole poisoning of the city's water supply.

 

now its like hes trying to declare flint a winner in the middle of it being poisoned.

 

whats the over/under on snyder moving away from michigan when his term is up?

[trichcycler]

maybe, if you just dipped and rinsed. what about the wash cloths put back on the sink, or kids drinking bath water, or worse yet, or maybe atomizing the lead via shower bath steam.   lead is bad. A dust particle the size of a grain of salt will show up in a childs' lead test. don't expose the largest organ of your body to one of the most toxic items known, please.

[Restorium2]

whats the over/under on snyder moving away from michigan when his term is up? 

 

At least he will not be able to go around bragging about the awesome job he did here in Michigan. A few months back he was doing that. Even going to run for president. I think this emerging crisis is what stopped him from going on the campaign trail. 

[cristinew]

http://michiganradio.org/post/listen-not-safe-drink-special-documentary-about-flint-water-crisis#stream/0 

[GrowGoddess]

We have been sold out across the country. This is leading up to mass genocide.

 

Check out California's water supply: http://www.desmogblog.com/2014/10/07/central-california-aquifers-contaminated-billions-gallons-fracking-wastewater?utm_content=buffer94d53&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

[Restorium2]

Just get a whole house filter if worried. Take charge of your own destiny/water. 

[trichcycler]

Just get a whole house filter if worried. Take charge of your own destiny/water.

some of us have ! we own our own water supply with a backup to extract the water. I still use a water filter though, not a softener.

[Highlander]

A whole-house filter, or a filter at least for drinking water is a no brainier and is good advice.

 

Many residential wells, especially in southeast Michigan, have elevated arsenic (and other heavy metals) that occur naturally in the aquifer.

 

Even with homes on municipal water that use copper piping with lead-free solder will experience unhealthy levels of copper.

[trichcycler]

true^. when we bought our home water quality was a contingency. DNR tests are under 15 bucks and a yearly one is simple and cheap enough.

Farmers use a lot of nasty stuff on crops all over the place and it leeches from fields and ditches. 

[zachw]

Just get a whole house filter if worried. Take charge of your own destiny/water. 

 

True, but we're talking about an area with a high level of poverty. These should be supplied free of charge to the people of Flint. To pay for it, start with the money from Snyder's bank account - he's worth about $200 million.

[solabeirtan]

Just ran into this:

   Gov Ricky just spoke, now Flint Mayor Dr Karen Weaver speaking ...presentation starts at about 5:20

 

...update:

 

Tpain: Sorry to report Dr E Wells seems to contradict your previous comments regarding the safety of bathing in water with elevated   lead, citing CDC... 

 

 Gov taking questions... 

 

 

 

 ...Presentation just ended abruptly at 52:48... internet seems to be working...   stay tuned...

Edited January 11, 2016 by solabeirtan

[t-pain]

the cdc is talking about elevated lead levels in water while bathing.

 

but i'm talking about FLINTS water.

 

flints' water, which has been measured double that in which the cdc/epa calls industrial waste, along with other metals, such as copper, due to the corrosive nature of the water.

 

you cannot compare the "elevated lead water" as defined by the cdc to flints water. flints water was a disaster. it was corrosive on gm's engine parts. dr eden wells thinks thats safe to bathe in?

 

maybe the water now? who knows... cant trust MDEQ to test.

[Highlander]

Interesting to note that the MDEQ publishes a slew of exposure thresholds for soil and water, depending on the chemical and the exposure route, and these values are based on 20+ years of toxicological studies.  The exposure thresholds for residential land use are based on a 30-year exposure.

 

The MDEQ considers that that 4 parts per billion (ppb) lead in drinking water is the safe limit, again, based on a 30-year exposure.  So you can drink as much water as you want with lead at or under 4ppb over a 30-year period and not expect any significant health risks.

 

When it comes to contact with soil, the MDEQ has determined that 400,000 ppb is a safe limit.  So you can play in your yard every day for 30 years in soil with lead up to 400,000 ppb and not expect a significant health risk.  The 400,000 ppb limit is based on the likelihood of absorbing lead from soil dust, mostly through the eyes and mucus membranes.

 

Interestingly, there isn't a similar direct contact exposure limit for lead in water.  This is because toxicologists have determined that it is highly unlikely that humans will absorb a significant amount of lead from direct contact with bath (as opposed to drinking) water.  There are two reasons for this.  One, our skin is a great barrier to contaminants that are dissolved in water.  Two, any drinking water source (be it well water or municipal water) is of a pH higher than 7, so there is a very low chance that dissolved lead will cross the skin barrier.  In order for most heavy metals to be absorbed by the body, the pH of the carrying agent (water) would need to be below 7 (acidic, because acidic solutions dissolve metals, while alkaline solutions would cause metals to precipitate out.)

 

Think of it this way.  The human body's fluids (skin included) are alkaline.  So contact exposure presents a limited likelihood of metals absorption.  But the digestive system is acidic, very acidic.  So any water one ingests, alkaline or not, becomes immediately acidic as soon as it hits the stomach.  Therefore, any metals in the water are in solution and can and will be readily absorbed into internal tissues. 

 

This is why water that is unsafe to drink is still usually safe to bathe in.

[t-pain]

it almost seems like since they put lead pipes in a lot of drinking water, that there would be an incentive to downplay the absorption rate of lead in water via skin.

 

but thats just me being paranoids.

[solabeirtan]

Rachel Maddow again with a brief summary of Gov Rickys presentation with some Q&A after his promises of free water(out), filters(out)

 

and lead test kits(nonexistant) ...  

 

re: Highlander the water seems to be quite acidic since GM has had to get an alternate source(since last Oct 2015) because they were corroding/rusting their crankshafts. This is going to cost Flint $400,000/yr  in lost revenue.  I would not bath my dog in this water let alone myself or a child. 

[zachw]

Rachel Maddow again with a brief summary of Gov Rickys presentation with some Q&A after his promises of free water(out), filters(out)

 

and lead test kits(nonexistant) ...  

 

re: Highlander the water seems to be quite acidic since GM has had to get an alternate source(since last Oct 2015) because they were corroding/rusting their crankshafts. This is going to cost Flint $400,000/yr  in lost revenue.  I would not bath my dog in this water let alone myself or a child. 

 

Yep, and even if it's "safe" to bath in, kids & dogs are going to be drinking some of that water. After all, they're kids & dogs!