Dr Eden Wells And Flint's Poisoned Water

[Highlander]

Rachel Maddow again with a brief summary of Gov Rickys presentation with some Q&A after his promises of free water(out), filters(out)

 

and lead test kits(nonexistant) ...

 

re: Highlander the water seems to be quite acidic since GM has had to get an alternate source(since last Oct 2015) because they were corroding/rusting their crankshafts. This is going to cost Flint $400,000/yr in lost revenue. I would not bath my dog in this water let alone myself or a child.

 

The problem GM experienced was due ro high chloride levels in water. Chloride makes water less acidic. Edited January 12, 2016 by Highlander

[solabeirtan]

The problem GM experienced was due to high chloride levels in water. Chloride makes water less acidic.

 

FLINT, MI -- Flint drinking water is "very corrosive" and "causing lead contamination in homes," researchers from Virginia Tech University reported online Wednesday, Sept. 2.   m

 

Perhaps this might explain #1 where did the chloride come from #2 Why their crankshafts were becoming corroded...

also known as Ferrous Chloride this is also a very corrosive chemical.

Edited January 12, 2016 by solabeirtan

[Highlander]

Yes. Corrosive for sure. But not acidic. Strong bases are also corrosive, such as sodium hydroxide, which is commonly used for drain cleaner.

 

The important aspect of this as it relates to water used for bathing is that water that is acidic will dissolve high levels of heavy metals, which are then more easily absorbed through the skin. Water that is alkaline will cause metals to precipitate out. That's the purpose of using FeCl in water treatment.

 

Don't get me wrong. Flint's water is terrible to drink. But I do agree with the experts who believe that there is little risk using the water for baths or showers. Chemistry and physiology support this. That said, I'm sure that showering with RO water would be healthier than using Flint's water.

 

But anyone who is worried about showering with Flint water should worry more about other issues first. For example, most carbonated sodas have a pH that is so low that it would qualify as a hazardous waste. So every time you drink a beverage from an aluminum can, you are ingesting high levels of aluminum along with the acid, which is very bad for the human body. The same concern exists with eating foods from metal cans.

 

My overall point being that showering with Flint water presents a health risk that pales in comparison to other daily habits that people don't think twice about.

[t-pain]

For example, most carbonated sodas have a pH that is so low that it would qualify as a hazardous waste. So every time you drink a beverage from an aluminum can, you are ingesting high levels of aluminum along with the acid, which is very bad for the human body. The same concern exists with eating foods from metal cans.

got a source for that one?

 

The same concern exists with eating foods from metal cans.

well, most other metal cans are tin. so different metal concerns for sure.

[solabeirtan]

Yes. Corrosive for sure. But not acidic. Strong bases are also corrosive, such as sodium hydroxide, which is commonly used for drain cleaner.

 

The important aspect of this as it relates to water used for bathing is that water that is acidic will dissolve high levels of heavy metals, which are then more easily absorbed through the skin. Water that is alkaline will cause metals to precipitate out. That's the purpose of using FeCl in water treatment.

 

Don't get me wrong. Flint's water is terrible to drink. But I do agree with the experts who believe that there is little risk using the water for baths or showers. Chemistry and physiology support this. That said, I'm sure that showering with RO water would be healthier than using Flint's water.

 

But anyone who is worried about showering with Flint water should worry more about other issues first. For example, most carbonated sodas have a pH that is so low that it would qualify as a hazardous waste. So every time you drink a beverage from an aluminum can, you are ingesting high levels of aluminum along with the acid, which is very bad for the human body. The same concern exists with eating foods from metal cans.

 

My overall point being that showering with Flint water presents a health risk that pales in comparison to other daily habits that people don't think twice about.

 

Believe it or not brother, what you are saying is that these people shouldn't worry about the corrosive, polluted water that they have been mislead to believe is safe.  It's their own inherent stupid life/styles and choices that is a bigger problem!

 

While what you say may have a grain of truth to it, the job of running a State does not include circumventing already in place safety guidelines and putting peoples health and well being at risk to make a buck. Is this what we have become?  

[Restorium2]

Yeah, well, this one is Snyder's fault. He's pinned to it. With emergency managing, forcing your will, going around elected officials, if you break it you fix it, no matter how large the cost. 

[zaphod]

http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2016/01/city_hall_office_containing_wa.html

 

>>FLINT, MI – Officials say a recent city hall break-in occurred in an office containing documents related to the city's water system.<<

[Highlander]

got a source for that one?

 

 

well, most other metal cans are tin. so different metal concerns for sure.

My post wasn't based on google research. It was based on a 20+ year career of evaluating toxicological risks to human health based on basic chemistry and physiology. So I kinda think I'm an expert on the topic. Both of us can do Internet research on the risks of aluminum cans. I'm not going to take the time to do research and post links to articles. If you want to know more about the risks of aluminum cans, do your own research. If you don't believe that aluminum cans present a health concern, I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise.

[trichcycler]

politicians are sometimes easily spotted

[Highlander]

Believe it or not brother, what you are saying is that these people shouldn't worry about the corrosive, polluted water that they have been mislead to believe is safe. It's their own inherent stupid life/styles and choices that is a bigger problem!

 

While what you say may have a grain of truth to it, the job of running a State does not include circumventing already in place safety guidelines and putting peoples health and well being at risk to make a buck. Is this what we have become?

[Highlander]

For sure. Note that the head of the MDEQ resigned as a consequence of this scandal. This happened quietly on 12/29. It's a big issue

 

I'm just hoping that people understand the risks. Drinking Flints water is bad. Bathing in it isn't a huge deal.

[trichcycler]

tpain,

 

 

you don't have to trust highlander, trust me, he's right about the aluminum cans

[t-pain]

http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2016/01/city_hall_office_containing_wa.html

 

>>FLINT, MI – Officials say a recent city hall break-in occurred in an office containing documents related to the city's water system.<<

the fix, it is on.

 

but how are they going to blame a tv burglar when their email records ... get deleted?

[t-pain]

tpain,

 

 

you don't have to trust highlander, trust me, he's right about the aluminum cans

i didnt say anyone was wrong, or that i didnt trust either of you.

 

i'm trying to include sources whenever i make claims now. just something i'm doing when talking on the internet because theres a lot of people who wont even read or believe your opinion without a source. so i wanted it for myself when repeating you guyses opinions. google didnt come up with anything substantial in a quick search...

[t-pain]

theres going to be a protest march in ann arbor next week

 

https://www.facebook.com/events/722822711185382/

 

Monday, January 18

at 4:00 PM - 6:00 PM in EST

 

Next Week

pin Rally at 4 pm in front of the Rackham Building at 915 E. Washington St. in Ann Arbor.

 

4:30 pm: March west along Washington St. to Main St. Turn left and go 1/2 block to 211 S. Main St., Ann Arbor. At 5:00 p.m., Protesters meet up in front of the Governor's address, 211 S Main. Form a moving circle. 5:45 p.m. Optional march back to campus via Liberty St. for Questions contact organizers Colleen Crossey at ccrossey@umich.edu or PM Jan BenDor.

 

Michigan Rising-Washtenaw County

January 7 at 10:34am ·

 

 

Show your support for the people of Flint, Michigan, who have been subjected to lead poisoning by the Flint public water system, through the deliberate and criminal actions of Michigan Governor Snyder, his MDEQ, and his appointed emergency managers.

Bring: warm hat, coat, boots; your favorite protest songs; drums; LED (lighted) signs; protest signs.

We will have a volunteer in the giant Snyder head and a jail suit. "Fire Gov. Snyder" t-shirts will be available while they last.

Creative signs encouraged on the theme of arrest and imprisonment.

[t-pain]

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2016/01/legionaires_disease_spike_disc.html

 

10 legionaires deaths in flint, 80 cases.......

 

don't drink the water

[garyfisher]

For example, most carbonated sodas have a pH that is so low that it would qualify as a hazardous waste. So every time you drink a beverage from an aluminum can, you are ingesting high levels of aluminum along with the acid, which is very bad for the human body. The same concern exists with eating foods from metal cans.

 I disagree with this statement.  I work in the beverage industry and all of our cans are completely lined.  None of our liquid touches the aluminum.

[Restorium2]

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2016/01/legionaires_disease_spike_disc.html

 

10 legionaires deaths in flint, 80 cases.......

 

don't drink the water

Legionaires can live in water up to 122 F. That means if your hot water heater has a weak lower element, which is very common, your hot water heater may have Legionaires Disease living in it. It can be dispensed to your shower or bath tub when your water temps fluctuate at times of high water usage. 

[knucklehead bob]

EPA stayed silent on Flint’s tainted water

 

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency’s top Midwest official said her department knew as early as April about the lack of corrosion controls in Flint’s water supply — a situation that likely put residents at risk for lead contamination — but said her hands were tied in bringing the information to the public.

 

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/01/12/epa-stayed-silent-flints-tainted-water/78719620/

[Restorium2]

The Smoking Gun:

 

Starting with inquiries made in February, the federal agency battled Michigan’s Department of Environmental Quality behind the scenes for at least six months over whether Flint needed to use chemical treatments to keep lead lines and plumbing connections from leaching into drinking water. The EPA did not publicize its concern that Flint residents’ health was jeopardized by the state’s insistence that such controls were not required by law.

[Restorium2]

Maybe they were not required by law to do the right thing but it's a slam dunk for damages in civil court. 

[t-pain]

EPA silenced miguel, because he was supposed to get permission to talk as an EPA employee.

 

EPA has some blame. DEQ has a lot of blame. snyder knew about this months ago too so he gets some blame as well. Flint Mayor gets blame even , why was he talking to the EPA?

[Restorium2]

EPA silenced miguel, because he was supposed to get permission to talk as an EPA employee.

 

EPA has some blame. DEQ has a lot of blame. snyder knew about this months ago too so he gets some blame as well. Flint Mayor gets blame even , why was he talking to the EPA?

Flint emergency manager details;

 

July 2013 - October 2013 Michael Brown Rick Snyder October 2013 - January 2015 Darnell Earley Rick Snyder^[33] January 2015–April 30, 2015^[34] Jerry Ambrose Rick Snyder^[35]

[t-pain]

no, i mean from the article resto:

 

A week after the June 24 memo was circulated, an email exchange between Hedman and then-Flint Mayor Dayne Walling showed no sense of alarm over the threat to public health and more concern about procedure.

 

what i mean is, he could have gone public about the water in june/july...

[Restorium2]

no, i mean from the article resto:

 

A week after the June 24 memo was circulated, an email exchange between Hedman and then-Flint Mayor Dayne Walling showed no sense of alarm over the threat to public health and more concern about procedure.

 

what i mean is, he could have gone public about the water in june/july...

He was on TV drinking the water at the plant. From watching him on the news several times he seemed clueless about the pipes. This was after;

Starting with inquiries made in February, the federal agency battled Michigan’s Department of Environmental Quality behind the scenes for at least six months over whether Flint needed to use chemical treatments to keep lead lines and plumbing connections from leaching into drinking water. The EPA did not publicize its concern that Flint residents’ health was jeopardized by the state’s insistence that such controls were not required by law.