Abrogate Prohibition Michigan Ballot Question Committee Amendment...

[Timmahh]

Hate to say it, but thanks for nothing Larry Gabriel. People spend $10,000 on stupid stuff A LOT, and make all sorts of boozy ways to get high: foods, etc. He could have used his space as an opportunity to explore why anyone would even propose this; why does anyone feel it needs to be done this way. Instead he decided to mock and deride. I'm disappointed. He just made it about over the top use, which it is not about at all, of course. A blunt arrow, shot off direction.

 

Unless the whole article was to castigate the YouTube channel? Pretty trivial approach and a waste of a read.

He wanted an interview. I returned his call.  3 times.  

I guess making up his own facts is good writing today.  So much of that going around in this community it is just norml.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Timmahh

[Timmahh]

While I understand what you are saying, that does not seem to really be the point of his article. While there is certainly a tie to the content of the YouTube channel, all of his examples are of things others are doing that make real legalization impossibly unpalatable for those that don't use cannabis.

 

He totally fails to get the point that all those videos are published while cannabis is prohibited in one way or another. Keeping criminal restrictions on cannabis hasn't stopped Snoop from smoking a single blunt, let alone 81 per day. The criminal restrictions are successful at negatively impacting hundreds or thousands of lives each year, however.

 

This article is so dumb it is difficult to come up with the words. A great disappointment, for sure, but even beyond that, this shows some real weakness in his thought pattern too, and a total failure to see the forest for the trees.

Just goes to show you, Yellow Journalism and Propaganda is alive and well, even right in the Cannabis Community Fountainheads.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Timmahh

[Timmahh]

A possible unintended consequence of Abrogate is the likely increase of out-of-staters trying to make big bucks growing unlimited MJ in Michigan and then shipping it to other states.

 

We have already seen this effect with dispensary owners from other states setting-up shop in Michigan and mailing meds from their state of origin to sell here in Michigan.

 

If/when this occurs, there is a pretty good chance that the federal government will make Michigan a bug under a microscope, as current federal "hands-off" policy (which could drastically change anyway with a new president in the White House in a year) emphasizes the need for state MJ laws to prevent criminal syndicates and out-of-state exports.

 

There is a good chance that Abrogate will put Michigan in a situation where the DEA goes whole-hog against any MJ activity and lets the courts sort it out.  And if Abrogate essentially kills the MMMA, then we won't enjoy the benefits of the recent federal legislation to prevent the DEA from using funds to bust medical MJ growers and users. 

 

Maybe this is why Bill Schuette said that the voters in Michigan should decide.  He is waaay too anti MJ to give up so easily.  He probably already has a roadmap to use Abrogate to leverage his anti-MJ position. 

Abrogate Didnt become recognized by the State until August,  Hate to break it to you, but Billbong said that around June or July, thus he was not speaking about the only Proposed Amendment to the Constitution that would fully Abrogate all Prohibitions, thus make them Nugatory, aka, null and void.

 

Abrogate put a big Monkey Wrench into that pre-ordained plan of theirs...

Edited January 8, 2016 by Timmahh

[Timmahh]

Just Imagine the Future of the Political Career of Bill Schuette, and all the rest of the didn't get it done types, when they have lost 8 to maybe 10 yrs worth of work, money, and investment into this issue, only to lose it to a set of Flapping Lips. lmao


Oh Irony, you can be so Bitter-Sweet.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Timmahh

[+Malamute]

Maybury vs Madison is Dead on its face.

 

 

The Supreme Court CAN NOT Give itself Authority it was Never allowed to have per the Constitution that Allows the Court to exist.

 

SMDH.  Do you live under a KING?

 

Well, since you cant even get the name right, I will assume your knowledge ends there.

 

It is Marbury, not Maybury.

 

And if you want to understand Constitutional law as used in this country, that is where to start, as I said.

 

Even to this day, it is not agreed upon.

[Timmahh]

This is how real writers articles read.
 

Legalization or Abrogation?
Posted on January 6, 2016 by Evan Farmer in People, Features, Legal & Politics


Since the spring of 2015, two groups have been petitioning to place an initiative on the Michigan ballot for the legalization of recreational marijuana. Both the Michigan Cannabis Coalition (MCC) and the Comprehensive Cannabis Law Reform Initiative Committee, or MILegalize, have been running petitioning campaigns in order to get their respective initiatives placed on the November 2016 ballot. And now, amidst the efforts to put a legalization vote before the people, another campaign is gearing up to actually change the Michigan Constitution in order to repeal prohibition all together. Abrogate Prohibition Michigan has recently announced that their group will start gathering signatures to put an initiative on the November ballot for voters to decide whether to amend the state constitution in order to end prohibition.



Abrogate would undoubtedly be the most aggressive measure in the effort toward legalizing cannabis, as it would completely abolish prohibition. According a recent article about this new effort in fight for legalization that was published in the Detroit Free Press,


“Abrogate Prohibition Michigan must collect roughly 315,000 valid voter signatures to qualify the constitutional amendment for the November 2016 statewide ballot.

The petition, whose form was OK’d Tuesday, would fully legalize the use of the cannabis plant in Michigan, allowing for recreational, medicinal, agricultural and other uses. It would not allow marijuana taxes or any regulation to diminish use.”

This step would take cannabis legalization one step further than what the other ballot initiatives are working toward. While both the MCC and the MILegalize proposals would effectively legalize cannabis for adults over 21 years old, there would still be many regulations in place, and the Michigan legislature will still have the ability to complicate whatever decision the voters make, and add new layers of arbitrary legislation upon whatever the people vote to initiate.



As for the legalization initiatives, the Michigan Cannabis Coalition proposal would be the most restrictive, should voters choose to enact this legislation into state law. The short title of the act would be the Michigan Cannabis Control and Revenue Act, and even though it would legalize cannabis for adults 21 and over, and allow for the cultivation of only two flowering plants for personal use, the real control would be placed in the hands of state legislators. This act would also create a “Michigan Cannabis Control Board” to oversee the licensing and regulation of commercial cannabis operations, three of which “shall be appointed by the governor, one by the speaker of the House and one by the Senate majority leader,” according to the official language.



MILegalize is the more promising of the two legalization initiatives that voters may see on the November ballot this year. It has been described as the “craft beer” approach to legalization, and not only allows for individuals to grow up to twelve plants for personal use, but also leaves the regulating authority in the hands of local municipalities. In an assessment of the campaing performed by MLive.com in July of last year, it is noted that,

“In addition to setting up their own licensing and rule structure for marijuana establishments, local municipalities could establish an ordinance to prohibit them altogether. However, if a municipality does not allow marijuana establishments by June of 2017, local voters would have the option to decide the issue in a general election.”

Although neither of the the two legalization ballot initiatives would alter the current medical marijuana law, they each have their own very unique approach to the legalization and regulation of cannabis for recreational use. Clearly, MILegalize puts much more of the power in the hands of citizens and local governments, but some would say that they both miss the mark when it comes to providing full decriminalization. That is one of key differences between the MCC and MILegalize initiatives and the Abrogate Prohibition Michigan campaign, which would put an amendment to the Michigan constitution before the people to vote on.



It is clear that Michigan’s Medical Marijuana Program (MMP) has had plenty of issues since its inception, with much back and forth on dispensaries, taxes, rules, and regulations. According to a recent article from Michigan Radio about new proposal for a new distribution system,

“The legislation is stalled in committee after heavy opposition from caregivers and patient groups. They worry the regulations would be overly burdensome, are designed to generate profits for middle men, and would drive up costs. In addition, many criticize new taxes on medical marijuana sales proposed under the bills. They say cannabis could become unaffordable for many patients if the proposals are signed into law.”

If we’ve learned anything from the Michigan MMP, it is that cannabis legislation leads to more legislation, and more rules and regulation. And while the legislation proposals for legalization would provide business opportunities and taxes for the State of Michigan, it’s quite unclear how the legal system and law enforcement will respond. If cannabis is regulated like alcohol, then it will primarily be treated as such. Whereas, if voters decriminalize completely and prohibition is effectively repealed, the people will be more free to decide how to approach the other aspects of its use, distribution, and regulation. There will still probably be some issues with the courts and police, especially until the Federal government decriminalizes cannabis. But some day soon we will free the weed, one way or another, we will continue to fight every step of the way.

 

 

http://michican.us/showthread.php?8334-Legalization-or-Abrogation-January-6-2016-by-Evan-Farmer-Writer-for-hybrid-life&p=9321#post9321

 

 

 

http://hybrid.life/legalization-or-abrogation/

[Timmahh]

Well, since you cant even get the name right, I will assume your knowledge ends there.

 

It is Marbury, not Maybury.

 

And if you want to understand Constitutional law as used in this country, that is where to start, as I said.

 

Even to this day, it is not agreed upon.

OMG I misspelled a name and didn't care enough to notice because the argument is proven in my statement, so the only thing you could pick apart is my lack of care for pin point spelling of a name? How dare I.

[Timmahh]

How many Petitions have you driven through the BoC to Amend the Constitution pretty much by your self Mal?

[+Malamute]

Abrogate hasn't done anything yet. Nothing. Zero Zilch.

 

 Do you even believe the VOTES are there for such language?

 

Have you even done ANY polling on it? Even one?

 

Anyhow,.. I would quit worrying about preaching to the choir and work on a campaign that can get non marijuana users to vote for your proposal. If not, even if by some miracle you did make the ballot,  you will lose worse than Ohios initiative.

 

I enjoy watching how cocksure you want to be, but I see only a couple dozen people getting sigs by your social media presence.

 

You need to do these interviews and put on a better face.

 

I of course want this type of thing, but it doesn't matter what I want.

 

Your campaign is already dead by most estimations.

 

....p.s. Any moron can get approved by BoC.  Even yourself. It just means you dotted your Is and crossed your T's on the form you produced.

 

Heh.

 

See you in 6 months to say I told ya so. 

[+Malamute]

Maybury vs Madison is Dead on its face.

 

 

The Supreme Court CAN NOT Give itself Authority it was Never allowed to have per the Constitution that Allows the Court to exist.

 

SMDH.  Do you live under a KING?

 

Fine.

 

Dead on its face?

 

It is still the basis of the Court determining the constitutionality of congressional legislation. Even though it determined the court couldn't issue writs of mandamus in the Marbury case, it created the basis that has been used for 200+ years for legislative Constitutionality.

 

I would say it is a good start to understanding Constitutional law as used in this country.

 

It is emphatically the duty of the Courts to say what the law is. Those who apply the rule to particular cases must, of necessity, expound and interpret the rule. If two laws conflict with each other, the Court must decide on the operation of each. If courts are to regard the Constitution, and the Constitution is superior to any ordinary act of the legislature, the Constitution, and not such ordinary act, must govern the case to which they both apply.

 

 

 

 So yea Timmah.

 

And no, we don't live under a King. We have 3 branches of government. If the Legislature disagrees with the Courts decision on Constitutionality, they can amend the Constitution. 

 

So Marbury:  The court cannot write writs of mandamus against officials in that manner, thus not expanding the powers of the court over Article III of the Constitution. The court is the final arbiter of Constitutionality of congressional legislation.

 

 Seems important.... ;-)

[jamieuke]

MILegalize does not require testing for anything other than infused products that are sold commercially. Local ordinances allowing for commercial activity could include more testing requirements, however, but will still only be restricted to product destined for commercial sale.

 

The patients and caregivers, or adults wishing to grow for whatever personal reason they may have- who choose to not be involved in the commercial market- will not have any mandates for testing.

 

Many patients and caregivers choose to have product tested for a variety of reasons. Testing labs such as Act are able to perform a variety of tests to determine the basic profile, to look deeper into the composition of cannabinoids, and for contaminants.

 

Act will perform an actual culture to determine mold. All mold cannot be seen by visual inspection and it is irresponsible to offer results based on just a visual observation.

 

MILegalize took input from members of the community from all over and considered the input- contrary to the baseless claims being made here. If an idea was not used, it does not mean that it was not considered.

 

The end result is what is believed to be the best chance to significantly move things forward. Meaning it covers a lot of important ground and still has the ability to pass when it makes it to ballot for the 2016 election.

 

Abrogate will not have enough signatures in time for 2016. Others have claimed that the language contains some fatal flaws that would render it useless via a legal challenge, and voters have not been keen on approving constitutional amendments in recent elections.

 

MCC is rumored to be reviving its dead campaign to take advantage of the discovery, made by MILegalize, that the 180 window does not have the same limitations for valid signatures as previously believed. The expected statement to announce MCC's revival- however- has not happened. As of right now- there is no confirmation that MCC has resumed its effort. They may be back on the street and we just haven't heard of it yet.

 

MCC is ultimately useless anyway, if not dangerous, because it relies on the corrupted and inept legislature that has demonstrated no ability to do anything reasonable on this issue- to implement the law and expand government in order to facilitate whatever unknown set of rules it may create. The lobbying frenzy we see now over the stupid distribution bill will only get worse, if MCC were to be successful.

 

Although, not considered ideal in some ways- MILegalize is currently the only viable choice with which to move forward in 2016.

 

In my opinion- MCC should just go away, the Abrogate group should use the 2012 repeal language, or language that has been thoroughly vetted by legal counsel that would result in the same goal- and begin collecting for a 2018 or 2020 run.

 

For this year- any realistic chance of achieving better policy- rests with MILegalize. www.MILegalize.com

[Restorium2]

 the Abrogate group should use the 2012 repeal language, or language that has been thoroughly vetted by legal counsel that would result in the same goal- and begin collecting for a 2018 or 2020 run. 

 

If MiLegalize passes it's going to be much easier to get Abrogate through because people will realize they didn't really vote for what they thought they were getting. That's what it takes to get a constitutional amendment through. People will feel burned by MiLegalize because they thought they would be able to grow and have a substantial amount of cannabis around their home. It's just a pot store law. 

Edited January 8, 2016 by Restorium2

[+Malamute]

I think people have forgotten that legalization barely passes even if in the same form as the current mmj law.

 

I don't think Abrogate stands a chance in the general public.

 

 How about apoll to find out get an idea?

[+Malamute]

 

MILegalize took input from members of the community from all over and considered the input- contrary to the baseless claims being made here. If an idea was not used, it does not mean that it was not considered.

 

 

 

Just wondering if you ever even seen my submitted suggestions to multiple members of MILEGALIZE?

 

 

 The lobbying frenzy we see now over the stupid distribution bill will only get worse, if MCC were to be successful.

 

 

 

 

 Let us not forget who started this dispensary lobbying frenzy there Jamie....

 

Isnt this bill basically the same starting bill you were pushing for MACC back in 2011 or wtvr?

 

And basically, everything we told you would happen has happened because of it?

 

 Some of us don't forget.  This is basically the Jamie MACC bill.... I think your baby grew up to be a monster there.

 

 

 Too late for you to runaway from your responsibility in the fiasco.

[Greg Rx]

 the Abrogate group should use the 2012 repeal language, or language that has been thoroughly vetted by legal counsel that would result in the same goal- and begin collecting for a 2018 or 2020 run. 

 

If MiLegalize passes it's going to be much easier to get Abrogate through because people will realize they didn't really vote for what they thought they were getting. That's what it takes to get a constitutional amendment through. People will feel burned by MiLegalize because they thought they would be able to grow and have a substantial amount of cannabis around their home. It's just a pot store law. 

Brilliant anylasis, NOT

[Greg Rx]

I think people have forgotten that legalization barely passes even if in the same form as the current mmj law.

 

I don't think Abrogate stands a chance in the general public.

 

 How about apoll to find out get an idea?

Too many people are in favor of legalization if we can tax it like alcohol.

[t-pain]

"tax like alcohol" and "pot for potholes" polls very well among a lot of people.

 

everyone likes hemp right? you do know that all hemp products sold in the usa are taxed?

what makes you think those currently-taxed hemp products do not need to be taxed?

 

we all agree we all hate taxes, lets not have that "no taxes" argument, i want to know why hemp specifically should not be taxed.

[bobandtorey]

I was telling everybody when i was asking for their signatures " Pot for Pot Holes " Imho we need to replace the money that Leo will lose if cannabis is too  becomes Legal  inn any way 

 

But again Imho the war on cannabis isn't just about Marihuana it's about getting into people's Homes and taking their stuff 

[Wild Bill]

One thing that I think most of us forget is that outside of regular users not many people care one way or the other about legalizing cannabis. If you think there's going to be a great outcry because no one got what they thought they were getting then think about how much the average voter is upset because the medical law has been twisted so badly.

[Restorium2]

One thing that I think most of us forget is that outside of regular users not many people care one way or the other about legalizing cannabis. If you think there's going to be a great outcry because no one got what they thought they were getting then think about how much the average voter is upset because the medical law has been twisted so badly.

Agreed. And some folks actually like it illegal until their kid gets caught and goes to prison. 

[Restorium2]

I totally disagree. If MILegalize passes, that will be it until the Feds take action. No more state-level marijuana initiatives. Unfortunately, Wild Bill is right that most voters don't understand and don't care about this issue.

Agreed. I had a moment of wishful thinking. 

[imiubu]

"tax like alcohol" and "pot for potholes" polls very well among a lot of people.

 

everyone likes hemp right? you do know that all hemp products sold in the usa are taxed?

what makes you think those currently-taxed hemp products do not need to be taxed?

 

we all agree we all hate taxes, lets not have that "no taxes" argument, i want to know why hemp specifically should not be taxed.

 

Isn't there already a tax structure in place, for sales/ income?

 

No additional "sin" tax needed on cannabis.

 

All hemp is imported atm, mostly from China. 

Why compare hemp (industrial) to cannabis (med /rec) at all?

They are different markets, different industries.

[trichcycler]

Thanks to Obama, anyone who tries to grow hemp will be raided at gunpoint by U.S. federal agents, prosecuted for felony crimes and thrown in prison.

 

So why is it okay for Barack Obama to buy industrial hemp grown in China, but keep industrial hemp criminalized in America?

 

Robert Scott Bell asked this question on the August 2, 2012 broadcast of the Robert Scott Bell Show. Download the MP3 here:

http://radio.naturalnews.com/Archive-RobertS...

 

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/036696_Barack_Obama_industrial_hemp_farmers.html#ixzz3wqoe8rRv

 

http://www.naturalnews.com/036696_Barack_Obama_industrial_hemp_farmers.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/gallery/articles/Barack_Obama_Hemp_Scarf.jpg

 

The hypocrisy is staggering

The scarf is listed as "made in the USA." What the Obama store doesn't tell you is that the scarf is made from imported hemp blend fabric made in China. Unfortunately the Obama administration has confused non-drug industrial hemp with marijuana and blocked American farmers from growing the crop. This outrageous policy has forced American companies to import hemp textiles, auto parts, building materials, nutritious foods and more from overseas increasing our trade deficit and offshoring farming and manufacturing jobs.

 

The world's largest market for hemp products is the United States with retail sales estimated to be $419 million in 2010 and growing annually at around 10 percent. All of these hemp products must be imported from the dozens of countries that allow hemp farming. Chinese farmers are growing 150,000 acres of hemp and planning to expand to more than a million acres due to demand. Farmers in Canada report turning a solid profit on their hemp crops and are expanding their hemp acreage. European farmers are selling their hemp fiber for use by Ford, Daimler Chrysler and BMW for door panels and interior parts. https://www.420magazine.com/forums/hemp-news/172065-obama-campaign-raises-money-hemp-products-while-administration-banning-hemp.html

[imiubu]

"The hypocrisy is staggering
The scarf is listed as "made in the USA." What the Obama store doesn't tell you is that the scarf is made from imported hemp

blend fabric made in China."

 

Made in USA does not mean the materials to make a product is sourced in the US, hemp or otherwise.

 

I had a thought the other day kinda on this subject;

The industrialization of China is destroying their environment in every way and no one is benefiting from all they produce/ export

except the gov't 1%ers.  In a way the US avoids the same pollution of our land/ water/ air with China producing all the dollar store chit.

The 'E' waste alone is mind bending.  I watched a documentary where the women recycling plastics take a lighter to each piece of

plastic then sniff it to sort the type of plastic.  wow.

 

I think the current administration knows full and well the difference between hemp/ cannabis sativa and are just playing the

same ole game. To blame it on this administration alone though is just more political folly imho.

[Restorium2]

Food for thought; We went through the same industrialization as China is now.