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Patients Can't Smoke In Parked Cars At Public Places, Court Rules


t-pain

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The central problem is the system and incentives in place to promote illicit behavior by LEO and the courts. When we have one law that only offers exemption from others, it is extremely easy for LEO to abuse law-abiding citizens. For the average citizen, not knowing the law isn’t an excuse; but for LEO it is. Officers of the law no longer need to know the actual law and can use this ignorance to their advantage.

For example, let’s say a city has local ordinances against paraphernalia or marijuana. You could be fully covered by the MMMA and exempt from such charges, but that does not stop you from being charged, arrested and taken to court. We could have a law that says to transport usable marijuana in the trunk in a container, but that doesn’t stop LEO from making up laws such as a “locked” container. How long has the unconstitutional transport law been going without any actions as to removing it? What do we think will happen as the public further pushes for decriminalization? Most likely additional fines, violations, unconstitutional laws, misinterpretations of the law, ect. I’m sure if LEO was actually punished for not knowing the law or violating basic civil rights they would be significantly more careful. Instead, we have the opposite where LEO can confiscate personal belongings without a crime commissioned and then financially benefit from it.

So no, I don’t think people are wasting their time collecting signatures, but simply legalizing marijuana will not solve the underlying problems. This country has evolved into a prison system with an insatiable hunger for police/drug enforcement funding and militarization. The “system” consists of individuals with specific ideologies, which are unlikely to change regardless of the majorities view. So in addition to legalizing, we need to dismantle the war on drugs, the profit to be obtained by harassing/stealing from law-abiding citizens, the profiteering in American prisons, the individuals who hold their ideologies above the will of the people, and the immunity that those in the judicial and executive branches have when breaking their oaths by ignorance/wrongful-interpretation of the law.

 

In other words, vote Democratic. We need a change.

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The central problem is the system and incentives in place to promote illicit behavior by LEO and the courts. When we have one law that only offers exemption from others, it is extremely easy for LEO to abuse law-abiding citizens. For the average citizen, not knowing the law isn’t an excuse; but for LEO it is. Officers of the law no longer need to know the actual law and can use this ignorance to their advantage.

 

For example, let’s say a city has local ordinances against paraphernalia or marijuana. You could be fully covered by the MMMA and exempt from such charges, but that does not stop you from being charged, arrested and taken to court. We could have a law that says to transport usable marijuana in the trunk in a container, but that doesn’t stop LEO from making up laws such as a “locked” container. How long has the unconstitutional transport law been going without any actions as to removing it? What do we think will happen as the public further pushes for decriminalization? Most likely additional fines, violations, unconstitutional laws, misinterpretations of the law, ect. I’m sure if LEO was actually punished for not knowing the law or violating basic civil rights they would be significantly more careful. Instead, we have the opposite where LEO can confiscate personal belongings without a crime commissioned and then financially benefit from it.

 

So no, I don’t think people are wasting their time collecting signatures, but simply legalizing marijuana will not solve the underlying problems. This country has evolved into a prison system with an insatiable hunger for police/drug enforcement funding and militarization. The “system” consists of individuals with specific ideologies, which are unlikely to change regardless of the majorities view. So in addition to legalizing, we need to dismantle the war on drugs, the profit to be obtained by harassing/stealing from law-abiding citizens, the profiteering in American prisons, the individuals who hold their ideologies above the will of the people, and the immunity that those in the judicial and executive branches have when breaking their oaths by ignorance/wrongful-interpretation of the law.

 

 

 

Wow ! 

 

Thanks for replying  thats a great post that makes a lot of sense to me as long as Leo is allowed to take people's stuff the War will go on sad but true 

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yea white collar and most of them dont even do time! the court system works for rich people and smart people, no one else, I know of people who have had no choice but to cop a plea for a msd or face a trial that could give them 15 yrs in prison, Im telling you im gonna cop the plea if it isnt a fellony and take the misd instead of putting my life in the hand of a judge!

 

Untill we can get a grip on this law, we need jury nullifications, any one that voted for the law should make sure they dont get kicked off of the jury and make sure they find the defendent innocent, no matter what (unless they are child molester mm pt's or selling to kids, or letting their kids sell the wares to kids) you would be surprised how many kids my daughter tells me about who's dad's and mom's let them sell grams so they can make profit!

 

We have to draw a line some where, the only time I sold to kids in school is when I was a kid in school!

 

I have been using mj since 5 dollar nickles that were measured as 2 and 1/2 finger, and 10 buck lids that were measured with 5 fingers making them very close to an oz if not more, and we still got some pretty good smoke, jamican, columbian gold, red, rainbow, tighe sticks, hawaiian, cali sensi, norther lights from canada! and of course the nasty mexican crap!

 

The first time I could get some one to sell me a 1/4 lb it cost me 60 bucks and sold for 30 and oz!

 

Peace

Thanks Jim

 

I have been using mj since 5 dollar nickels that were measured as 2 and 1/2 finger, and 10 buck lids that were measured with 5 fingers making them very close to an oz

 

Imo the biggest reason that was the way it was back then was because it you where to get raided you wouldn't have a scale around because a scale to Leo would mean you are selling 

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By all means vote Democratic if you think that any party line vote will make a difference.

 

Witness the bipartisan antics in our MI legislature when addressing changes to the MMMA. Any Democrats involved in those?

 

Voting for Democrats because their party isn't as bad as the alternative isn't a ringing endorsement.

 

Keep in mind however, it is the same logic that has resulted in the Republican resurgence in state and national elections post-2008.

Edited by outsideinthecold
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By all means vote Democratic if you think that any party line vote will make a difference.

 

Witness the bipartisan antics in our MI legislature when addressing changes to the MMMA. Any Democrats involved in those?

 

Voting for Democrats because their party isn't as bad as the alternative isn't a ringing endorsement.

 

Keep in mind however, it is the same logic that has resulted in the Republican resurgence in state and national elections post-2008.

Did you see that the Michigan Republican run legislature is trying to make it so you can't vote a straight D ticket any more? hmmm

 

Yes, it's Republican run for sure.

 

And Schuette will be running for governor on the Republican side.

 

It does sound a little overly simple to say that voting democrats in will help. When you place that template over the current political situation in Michigan we turn out to be quite a bit better off by simply doing that. Simple plans are sometimes a great starting point. 

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Bipartisan antics?

 

Could you please explain?

 

Have democrats written the bills or gotten their amendments?

 

There is absolutely  no one to blame in Michigan except republicans.  Noone. Democrats have zero control over anything in Michigan.  Nothing.

 

If something is annoying or bad,it is republicans fault. Period. Hell, the republicans even overruled the will of the people in blanket form when they overrode the city manger loss  in the election by placing funding into the bill so we could not referendum it again.  Scummy.

 

If democrats had any control, things would be MUCH different in Lansing. much.

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Perhaps my memory has failed me yet again, but Bipartisan antics referred to the super majority changes to the MMMA in the last MI legislature. Didn't some Dems vote with the Republcan majority on those bills?

 

Regardless, I would question the strategy of voting for Democrats in places like Detroit for Democrats like Kwane Kilpatrick. Or Republicans in SWMichigan for that matter. Any time either party gains an unassailable majority prepare for impact.

 

Ever been wrong before? I ask myself that question a lot. And my follow-up is "what makes you think you are right this time?".

 

Really, I don't care much for the Dems good, Repubs bad approach to politics. There are elements of good and bad in each from my perspective.

 

I like to reflect on the ideas shared here. I am grateful no one has banned me lately because we all share a common interest as part of the most widely abused minority in America. Regardless of our personal beliefs on religious, economic, or political matters, that shared interest should unite, rather than divide us.

 

As one of the folks who I admire here wrote so eloquently, "no one should go to jail for pot".

Edited by outsideinthecold
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Bipartisan antics?

 

Could you please explain?

 

Have democrats written the bills or gotten their amendments?

 

There is absolutely  no one to blame in Michigan except republicans.  Noone. Democrats have zero control over anything in Michigan.  Nothing.

 

If something is annoying or bad,it is republicans fault. Period. Hell, the republicans even overruled the will of the people in blanket form when they overrode the city manger loss  in the election by placing funding into the bill so we could not referendum it again.  Scummy.

 

If democrats had any control, things would be MUCH different in Lansing. much.

Could someone pull up the votes on the transport bill?

Never mind, looks to be 24 ya and 22 nay on the transport bill.  Considering how bad a law it is and it's only to shakedown patients and caregivers it looks like we have to get rid of over half of the democratic legislature too(cause they seem to want to shakedown caregivers and patients for cash too).  So that's over 75% of the legislature we have to vote out and get the RIGHT dems in.  Since it seems like less than 50% of the current dems vote our way, you don't even have a 50/50 chance voting strictly dem.......

Or we could hand write letters and stand on the steps of Lansing.  One seems a little more achievable than the other, even if it's no guarantee.  It's the only real hope we have.

Edited by Norby
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If dems were in control, the bill would never had existed.

 

I agree it is more complicated than good/bad dem/rep.

 

But to overlook the insanity of a republican run government and a judiciary that is gobstoppingly republican crazy and to try to equate that to democrats is just being disingenuous.  Sure... 25% of democrats suck(ex cops, prosecutors) but 90% of republicans totally suck.   There is no equivalence.

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http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?2011-HB-4856

 

Sponsors

Ben Glardon - (primary)Joe Haveman, Dave Agema, Kevin Daley, Paul Opsommer, Dale W. Zorn, Bruce Rendon, Kenneth Kurtz, Joel Johnson, Mark Ouimet, Roy Schmidt, Gail Haines, Nancy Jenkins, Matt Lori, Ken Yonker, Kenneth Horn, Kurt Heise, Sharon Tyler, Phil Cavanagh, Rick Olson, Rick Outman, Ken Goike, Kevin Cotter, Amanda Price, Timothy Bledsoe, Mike Callton, Marty Knollenberg, Lisa Lyons, Brad Jacobsen

 

most of those people who sponsored the bill are republicans...

 

 

12/13/2012 SJ 80 Pg. 2637 PASSED; GIVEN IMMEDIATE EFFECT ROLL CALL # 1000 YEAS 38 NAYS 0 EXCUSED 0 NOT VOTING 0

 

12/14/2012 HJ 83 Pg. 2876 Senate amendment(s) concurred in Roll Call # 895 Yeas 96 Nays 10

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If dems were in control, the bill would never had existed.

 

I agree it is more complicated than good/bad dem/rep.

 

But to overlook the insanity of a republican run government and a judiciary that is gobstoppingly republican crazy and to try to equate that to democrats is just being disingenuous.  Sure... 25% of democrats suck(ex cops, prosecutors) but 90% of republicans totally suck.   There is no equivalence.

It's over 50%, I looked it up and edited, sorry.

http://www.mmmd.org/michigan-house-vote-on-hb-4834/

So you are grossly underestimating and the bill would've still passed just on the d's there.

You have to see the actual problem to be able to solve it.  Being disingenuous only muddies what has to be done.  Voting d won't do it you HAVE to take the fight to them and in their face.

Edited by Norby
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It's over 50%, I looked it up and edited, sorry.

http://www.mmmd.org/michigan-house-vote-on-hb-4834/

So you are grossly underestimating and the bill would've still passed just on the d's there.

You have to see the actual problem to be able to solve it.  Being disingenuous only muddies what has to be done.  Voting d won't do it you HAVE to take the fight to them and in their face.

So D's are at least 50% better than the R's. I would be willing to accept a 50% improvement. That would be very good. 

 

I like to see the glass half full. 

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Republican potential Governor Candidates in Michigan

 

Potential

Brian Calley, Lieutenant Governor of Michigan (horrible against marijuana, uniquely stopped the approval of autism)

Arlan Meekhof, Majority Leader of the Michigan Senate (OMG horrible against marijuana)

Candice Miller, U.S. Representative (Rated -20 by NORML, indicating a "hard-on-drugs" stance.  Yea,.. that is NEGATIVE 20 rating)

Bill Schuette, Attorney General of Michigan (Well, it is bill schuette, need I say more)

 

 

So, what about the democrats:

 

 

Potential candidates:

 

Debbie Dingell, U.S. Representative(voted to allow VA physicians to write recommendations for MMj for veterans)

Mark Hackel, Macomb County Executive (Against Marijuana, Law enforcement person)

Dan Kildee, U.S. Representative (voted for Veterans MMj access twice, voted to stop funding Federal anti MMj in states etc)

Barbara McQuade, United States Attorney for the Eastern District of Michigan ( I do not have any history on her)

Gretchen Whitmer, former Minority Leader of the Michigan Senate(Supportive of marijuana)

 

 

 

 

 It isn't the same nor is it an equivalent.

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Voting for the right democrat might help, but we also need to get rid of electronic voting because it is rampant in fraud and thus subverting democracy (http://www.snagfilms.com/films/title/hacking_democracy). I’ve always felt that the democrat verse republican battle is just a distraction from what a candidate actually stands for. Hillary and Bernie are definitely nowhere near the same ideologically, with one who is heavily funded by the establishment versus one that is not. It is quite entertaining to have a candidate take in millions from banks, prisons and pharmaceutical companies, but then claim to be fully against them.

Edited by Alphabob
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Found this in the Toronoto Star (via Cannabis News), apparently they were about to pass an ordinance allowing Medical Mj patients to light up or vape wherever they pleased. This didn't go over very well with restaurant  owners as well as other businesses there and will require some tweaking before being re-introduced.

 

"Ontario -- It’s okay, I have doctor’s note. Under new Ontario regulations, that’s what people puffing on medical marijuana — in a joint or an e-cigarette — can now say in any public place where smoking is otherwise banned.

 

The exemption includes everything from movie theatres to restaurants, offices, stadiums, playgrounds full of children and more – even the legislature, Dipika Damerla, Ontario’s associate health minister, acknowledged Wednesday."

 

...coming soon!

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And you have to take the votes in context of who is the majority in control. If they who are in the minority now were in control some of those D votes would have been different. There are a lot of things to factor in. 

And, it wouldn't surprise me if some of the D's "sold" their vote to the R's in exchange for something else.  "Represent the people"? - poppycock!

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So D's are at least 50% better than the R's. I would be willing to accept a 50% improvement. That would be very good. 

 

I like to see the glass half full. 

Less than 50% better.  It still would've passed strictly on dems votes by 2.  Dems voted 24 for teh bill and 22 against.

The legislature is not the way out of this unless you are talking about petitioning the legislature on teh steps with signs and letters telling them what we want.  Even if we could get a majority of dems it wouldn't work.  Even if we got all dems it wouldn't work.  If there isn't another way then we might as well roll over.

I too want to smoke outside.  I'd like to get a job.  I'd like to be treated just like any other American citizen on meds, just like it says in the opening statement of the act.  you know, the will of the people and all.

Edited by Norby
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And, it wouldn't surprise me if some of the D's "sold" their vote to the R's in exchange for something else.  "Represent the people"? - poppycock!

Bingo. A lot did. They have to live together under R rule. If the D's were the majority then some of the R's would bargain their votes our way. 

 

When R's rule the whole agenda is more 'restrictive' for marijuana and tilted towards the religious right and their fears of the devil weed. 

 

It's just going to get worse if they get their Schuette in there as governor. 

 

They have been doubling down on us as some have been pandering to them. 

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