Just Sacrificed A Plant To The Borg...

[Wild Bill]

i mean... if you can, just carry the plant into the shower and blast it ? right ?

 

If you can, use a hand held sprayer so you can get underneath.

[imiubu]

I had recently had thrips and used

 

3% h2o2 @ 30ml

70% iso @ 20ml

Ivory liquid @ 2ml

in a quart spray bottle.

 

I understand that this solution can be used up to 4 weeks into flowering.

 

 

It took a few weeks as I didn't pay due diligence. My bad 

They are gone now (I think?)) but I still spray regularly.

 

Learning the life cycle of the critters + regular preventative measures are key.

I've thought I killed the buggers in the past and stopped spraying... mistake!

 

Hope you get em dead Zachw

 

 

A side note;

I noticed that Meijers now sells their Iso in 32oz bottles for the same price

as they used to sell the 16oz bottles of 99% before they stopped selling it.

[mibrains]

oh my. ok...did you set up a control, like a sample bug to watch die? reason I ask is because these insects cannot survive in 24 hours of 20k ppm nor can their eggs. I know this for fact. I've watched them die in half that ppm in jars. Other insects die at around the same time. please share any details about when you saw live or dead bugs after your c02? I suspect a reintroduction somehow, but that will be near impossible to pin point. when these bugger don't have enough 02 to breathe they die. High enough ppm and so would we.

 

ok so...

i decided last june to combat my outbreak of mites i would improve a new space.

i sealed the two rooms and added a passive airflow system between them. (veg and flower)

after tons of research i found that anything that breaths air cannot survive extended enhanced co2 enrichment.

the first week my control unit was not hooked up and the burner ran all the time a week straight... i started feeling light headed and decided not to use it until i finished the remod and got the controls hooked in.

so after another week i had all systems ready.

fire up the burner and unplug it from the controller so it runs constantly just like the first week.

i was blown away to see the ppm sneak up to 20k and then cutoff.

it takes a good 6 or maybe 8 hours i wanna say to get to that concentration in both rooms.

i figured nothing that breaths oxygen would be able to survive.

 

the recommended amount was i wanna say 15k for 3-6 hours and you should be good...i far exceeded that amount.

its recommended to repeat the procedure once every 3 days to ensure if any eggs do survive then any young mites will be nuked before reaching the age of maturity thereby ending the life cycle.

 

so after the ninth day...

 

the third application...

 

its the morning of the tenth day... and after i shut down the burner and ventilated the space so i could breath i started my normal routine....

f u c k m e

an hour into the day what do you think i see?

a prime plant in maybe her 6th week of flower....COVERED IN WEBS.

 

i could not believe my eyes...

i had been watching close.

 

nothing... no signs and i actually thought i won against the mites..

 

for an hour or so...

 

webs.

 

turns out i found more webs on another plant next to that one...as well as in the corners of the plant stand on a third plant.

 

my theory you ask?

well i think the co2 pissed them off... stressed them out but didn't kill them all and the few that lived went into mad overdrive.

 

they cannot be resistant to not breathing so...

 

the other idea is that plants produce oxygen...at their leaves it is transpired into the air and exchanged... maybe a couple little borg managed to hang out at the o2 bar and survive the impending miteocolypse.....

 

no clue.

 

as of the past 90 days the co2 burner is off... the room has been chilled and humidity increased to attempt to make the enviroment less desirable to the pests.... it does not work in it of itself... but it helps a little bit.

[medmanmike]

 

Grassmatch, how do I physically dip plants in a 5 gallon bucket in water?

Found this at Lowes. Selections 22.3-in W x 22.3-in H x 16.5-in D Blue Plastic Basket. $8.

 

http://images.lowes.com/product/converted/051596/051596080167.jpg

 

This will hold a 7 (trade) gallon pot.

[imiubu]

I bought 4 like that ^^ only half the size (2.5 gal) 8.5 H x 10 W for a buck each at Dollar Tree.

 

Removed the handles and drilled some holes.  Works great for veg and I like the larger

lips on them.

[medmanmike]

Spray your flowering plants with cold water at least once a day. If you have the time do it three times a day. Even if there are a few mites they will not be able to cause any damage. You can wash your buds, dunk then in a bucket of water just before you trim them to make sure no bugs, scat or eggs are in your finished buds.

Rest, great ideas. To quote my favorite grower:

 

"Healthy plants resist pests and disease better, across the board. My rooms have mites and a few thripes. Rarely do they cause a problem other than some spotted leaves when they're at their worst. They all get washed off at harvest."

 

"Acidic soil attracts insects, while alkaline soil attracts molds, rusts, fungus, etc. Higher Brix=resistance to disease and pests, including PM. I have mites and thripes for sure. I ignore them, mostly. Every now and then, especially when it's just days before harvest and the plant is slowing down, I'll see some webbing. It all gets washed off. I have no fear at all over insects in my garden. Some growers I know haven't had any sign of mites since going High Brix."

 

"If and when you need to use something for mites try Takedown Spray. Put on some gloves and spray like you're trying to blast them off."

[imiubu]

If you can, use a hand held sprayer so you can get underneath.

 

I love my 360 degree sprayer.

 

I have a 3gal pressure sprayer but I like the smaller 360 nozzle better.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Precipitator-360-Spray-Bottle-32-Ounce/dp/B002OUCMWI

[zachw]

There are also mite predators such as Phytoseiulus persimilis that can be used inside. They gobble up the mites and mite eggs and then die when they run out of food. Not cheap. And probably not appropriate during late flower.

Edited March 2, 2016 by zachw

[mibrains]

hey zach..

 

i tried lady bugs during the beginning of my infestation last summer.. no avail.

 

i am sorry if i hijacked your thread with my borg stories...

 

i only wanted to share my experiences for those who read your title and think to try the things we are discussing.

 

also i am now trying a cold water spray as suggested by our forum.

 

i will happily post pictures and results for anyone interested..

 

i tried to get my pump up garden sprayer serviceable this afternoon...it was/has been contaminated with outdoor flea and tick poison so i decided to grab a brand new one tomorrow and start this off with a splash.

[zachw]

hey zach..

 

i tried lady bugs during the beginning of my infestation last summer.. no avail.

 

i am sorry if i hijacked your thread with my borg stories...

 

i only wanted to share my experiences for those who read your title and think to try the things we are discussing.

 

also i am now trying a cold water spray as suggested by our forum.

 

i will happily post pictures and results for anyone interested..

 

i tried to get my pump up garden sprayer serviceable this afternoon...it was/has been contaminated with outdoor flea and tick poison so i decided to grab a brand new one tomorrow and start this off with a splash.

 

No no, no hijack. Important for folks to keep informing others about their borg experiences.

 

Never considered lady bugs for an indoor grow.

 

 

For folks interested, here is a link to an academic study of predatory mites: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Andreas_Walzer/publication/11181480_Population_dynamics_of_interacting_predatory_mites_Phytoseiulus_persimilis_and_Neoseiulus_californicus_held_on_detached_bean_leaves_Exp_Appl_Acarol/links/546f21940cf2bc99c215c43c.pdf

[mibrains]

excellent article...

 

thanks for the link

 

N. californicus persisted three to five times longer after prey depletion than did P. persimilis. Regarding the crucial interactions in the predator combination systems, we conclude that intraguild predation was a stronger force than food competition and finally resulted in the displacement of P. persimilis.

[zachw]

Decided to bring in a mite leave from the garage where it has been sitting overnight. Put it under a microscope to check it out. Found a few and set the magnification higher. 

 

SHEE-IT what is that crawling across the slide!!!!

 

It's not dead, it's only resting!

 

Quick spray with iso and at least had the satisfaction of watching a couple critters twitching in their death throws. 

[mibrains]

wish i could watch live video....

 

i am jealous

[imiubu]

So, the below freezing temps did not kill them.  Good to know.

 

 

It would be awesome to have live video of each of these treatments and their results upon the critters.

 

When they do croak, we can all cheer!  Knowing what really works and not relying upon the manufacturers hype

would be incredibly helpful to frustrated gardeners in pest control and eradication.

[Restorium2]

When they sense death is near they squirt out all their eggs. 

[imiubu]

I've read that Iso causes the eggs and larvae to burst.

 

Would be cool to watch that

[Norby]

They don't work anyway. Diligence with the water will work. And it will make for a cleaner product because you keep washing off the bug stuff. Wouldn't hurt to dunk the buds in a bucket of water and swish them around as you trim. Wouldn't want someone ingesting them if you can just wash them off. 

Dr. Doom works. Pyrethrin, read up on it.  It gets into the nooks and crannies.  It's made from chrysanthemums. I should say it worked for me, so maybe if you don't use them right they don't work, although I haven't heard it not work.  All organic except the 1% piperonyl butoxide.  Although I'd never even spray neem or spinosad on buds that couldn't be sprayed off a week later(3 weeks or less in flower).

[Restorium2]

Dr. Doom works. Pyrethrin, read up on it.  It gets into the nooks and crannies.  It's made from chrysanthemums. I should say it worked for me, so maybe if you don't use them right they don't work, although I haven't heard it not work.  All organic except the 1% piperonyl butoxide.  Although I'd never even spray neem or spinosad on buds that couldn't be sprayed off a week later(3 weeks or less in flower).

Pyrethrum doesn't kill the eggs.

[Norby]

Pyrethrum doesn't kill the eggs.

That's why you spray neem on day 1 and 7 and set off a fogger on day 3-4.  Nothing kills eggs.  I've read that mites in stasis put on a shell layer which makes then impermeable to pesticides also. Supposedly the eggs are coated with a shell harder than any substance on a living thing also impermeable to pesticides.  You have to protect the plants with neem so that any bug ingesting it can not molt to an adult or it's sterilized from the neem, which will break down in seven days.  The bug bomb then kills any adults or bugs since the eggs hatch in under 3 days(less if dryer and warmer). Then another thorough spray with neem to sterilize anything that may have gone into hibernation and came out to eat after the bomb.  This way you have pyrethrin coverage on everything so they can't make it to a crack to hibernate and the plants are poison to them for 2 weeks.  Worked well for me.  I had them for a while while using neem.  When you use 2 products and make a plan to cover all the bases you are more successful.  So they work, just like anything does to kill or sterilize, etc. but they aren't a complete plan.  You have to look at the time for eggs to hatch, time to insect maturity, humidity and temperature, resistant stages and life cycle and space or else you are shooting in the dark.

 

If you are in a house closet and have a family your stuck as to what you can use.  I'd wait for vaca, kill everything and bomb so that anything still in the room doesn't hibernate.

[Restorium2]

That's why you spray neem on day 1 and 7 and set off a fogger on day 3-4.  Nothing kills eggs.  I've read that mites in stasis put on a shell layer which makes then impermeable to pesticides also. Supposedly the eggs are coated with a shell harder than any substance on a living thing also impermeable to pesticides.  You have to protect the plants with neem so that any bug ingesting it can not molt to an adult or it's sterilized from the neem, which will break down in seven days.  The bug bomb then kills any adults or bugs since the eggs hatch in under 3 days(less if dryer and warmer). Then another thorough spray with neem to sterilize anything that may have gone into hibernation and came out to eat after the bomb.  This way you have pyrethrin coverage on everything so they can't make it to a crack to hibernate and the plants are poison to them for 2 weeks.  Worked well for me.  I had them for a while while using neem.  When you use 2 products and make a plan to cover all the bases you are more successful.  So they work, just like anything does to kill or sterilize, etc. but they aren't a complete plan.  You have to look at the time for eggs to hatch, time to insect maturity, humidity and temperature, resistant stages and life cycle and space or else you are shooting in the dark.

 

If you are in a house closet and have a family your stuck as to what you can use.  I'd wait for vaca, kill everything and bomb so that anything still in the room doesn't hibernate.

Bleach kills eggs. 10% solution will do it without a doubt. 

 

Like was outlined; Wash off the bugs and eggs until harvest. When you have an empty room bleach it. Wear skin protection and a respirator. 

[trichcycler]

too easy of a step to skip....... Please share your surefire clone treatment guaranteed to kill all mites and eggs? what are the mite's most favorite plant conditions? I know of over watered, over fed, under lit plants always having issues with other pests, molds etc.

[zachw]

Well haven't seen any more mites reappear. It is quite strange. In veg the mites were confined to one plant - PK -  now sitting in the snow. Just a couple of mites in the flower room, and it happened to also on the only PK there. 

 

In any event, I am ready with Spinosad if any reappear on veg, and a nice pump up sprayer with cold h20 if any appear on the flower side!

[Indigro]

Want a single app mite killer, assuming one gets complete coverage, including the the places where they are walking around that isnt on a plant...? That kills eggs too?

 

Old fashioned horticultural oil. Works by smothering and is 100%, if u r 100% in application. Just have to be careful to not oil burn the plant tissue while under lights, and maintaining good mixture of the solution such that you dont have overly concentrated spray hitting the plants. As neutral of a product as u will find, read, wont cause cancer.

 

Really though, if u kill em all off, and run a tight ship, mites become a thing of the past. Over 7 years w/o a spider kite issue, and iv taken in clones from infested people over that time too... They always have mites, one trick after another, comes back up again, and again, and again... They just seem to live w it anymore. Simple solutions exist, best practices exist, mite free rooms exist.

 

bunny muffin, iv got a clover mite infested field/house where they overwinter under the house siding and come inside by the thousands during their spring bloom, and not a one gets on my plants. If i can do it, anyone else can too. And spider mites are easier since my exposure is only when i choose. Just to say, u can deal w them very effectively w/o toxic chems, or a continual battle that never ends.

[trichcycler]

Well haven't seen any more mites reappear. It is quite strange. In veg the mites were confined to one plant - PK -  now sitting in the snow. Just a couple of mites in the flower room, and it happened to also on the only PK there. 

 

In any event, I am ready with Spinosad if any reappear on veg, and a nice pump up sprayer with cold h20 if any appear on the flower side!

if you wait till you see mites in veg before you use spinosad(bacteria) you will be too late. Bacteria colonies take awhile to establish, especially with basal salt ferts, oils or other sprays. Preventative maintenance is key.

[zachw]

if you wait till you see mites in veg before you use spinosad(bacteria) you will be too late. Bacteria colonies take awhile to establish, especially with basal salt ferts, oils or other sprays. Preventative maintenance is key.

 

Thanks for the advice. I'll get to it.