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In another thread, I mentioned that I started using Monterey Insect Spray (spinosad / spinosyn) to control a minor mite problem. It seemed to work ok, even though the product booklet says nothing about mites.

 

But I should have done additional research. And spinosad is generally safe to use if you are using beneficial predatory mites!

 

Here is a very good rundown on treatments against mites. Quoting http://web.pppmb.cals.cornell.edu/resourceguide/pdf/resource-guide-for-organic-insect-and-disease-management.pdf

 

Spinosad is principally toxic to plant-eating insects in the orders Lepidoptera (caterpillars), Coleoptera (beetles), Thysanoptera (thrips), and Diptera (flies). It is not a plant systemic, but will penetrate leaves to some extent and, therefore, has activity against some leafminers.  Spinosad is not effective at controlling mites at normal use rates (Thompson et al. 2000; Cowles et al. 2000; Tjosvold & Chaney 2001), although at high rates or in combination with some adjuvants, it has miticidal activity (Gilrein 2004).

 

So it's mostly the suspension that kills any mites, not the spinosyn itself!

 

Indeed, spinosad is often the way to go when you DON'T want to kill mites as is mentioned in Compatibility of spinosad with predaceous mites

 

A soft soap water spray is very effective against spider mites according to Effects of soft soap and abamectin on the two spotted spider mite

Tetranychus urticae Koch (Acari: Tetranychidae) and predatory mite Phytoseiulus persimilis A-H (Acari: Phytoseiidae) under laboratory conditions.

 

Anyway, though not 100% eliminated from the second grow, the mites are very sporadic and not of major concern due to regular inspection to keep them in check. Just can't get lazy about 'em.

Edited by zachw
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Too little too late.

 

I bought and tried monterey because someone said it worked in the borg thread...made the eggs shrivel up they said... they will look like raisins

 

Two days after spraying....the webs were out. ,it's as if it is actually a fertilizer and booster for spider mites or something...

 

Made them go crazy...they exploded with life...not death.

 

F u c k this s h i t.

 

Monterey with spinosad is crap as it pertains to control of spider mites.

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Too little too late.

 

I bought and tried monterey because someone said it worked in the borg thread...made the eggs shrivel up they said... they will look like raisins

 

Two days after spraying....the webs were out. ,it's as if it is actually a fertilizer and booster for spider mites or something...

 

Made them go crazy...they exploded with life...not death.

 

F u c k this s h i t.

 

Monterey with spinosad is crap as it pertains to control of spider mites.

Your right it was too late..It has worked perfectly for me. no explosions or even a little bang.. killed them off in a couple weeks. you did something wrong.. It takes more than over night and two sprays. Here's afew more opinions about spinosad.. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=70895

And your kinda right before they die they lay eggs like crazy.. 

 

http://www.2ndchance.info/fleas-spinosadGarden.pdf ,

 

to control caterpillars, thrips, leafminers, borers, fruit flies, spidermites, aphids, and more. Spinosad must be ingested by the insect, therefore it has little effect on sucking insects and nontarget predatory insects. Spinosad is relatively fast acting. The pest insect dies within 1 to 2 days after ingesting the active ingredient. Spinosad will not persist in the environment. Sunlight and soil microbes break it down into carbon, hydrogen, oxygen and nitrogen. It is classified as an organic substance by the USDA National

 

Buy hey use what ever you want to.. its a free world sorta ... 

Edited by Willy
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Willy, glad it worked for you, but as stated in the first post it was probably not due to the action of the spinosyn (unless you used it at a "high rate") but rather the suspension that was sprayed onto the plant. Note that the product info page you pointed to is self-contradictory. They claim at the beginning & end that it can be used for spider mites. But then in the technical info, it states:
 

Spinosad has been shown to be highly active on insects including species from the orders Lepidoptera,Diptera, Hymenoptera, Thysanoptera, and a few Coleoptera.

 
Those orders are butterflies & moths; mosquitoes & gnats; wasps & ants; thrips; and a few beetles. NOT included in the list is Trombidiformes, the order for mites.

 
It seems pretty clear from agricultural pest management experts that soap spray works better on mites than spinosad.

Edited by zachw
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Willy, glad it worked for you, but as stated in the first post it was probably not due to the action of the spinosyn (unless you used it at a "high rate") but rather the suspension that was sprayed onto the plant. Note that the product info page you pointed to is self-contradictory. They claim at the beginning & end that it can be used for spider mites. But then in the technical info, it states:

 

 

Those orders are butterflies & moths; mosquitoes & gnats; wasps & ants; thrips; and a few beetles. NOT included in the list is Trombidiformes, the order for mites.

 

It seems pretty clear from agricultural pest management experts that soap spray works better on mites than spinosad.

You still have them then? But hey not my plant, I got no mites and havne't for over 2 yrs. but if it dont work.. i guess the dance and voodoo worked :)

I used it at 4tlbs per gal. and did it for 2 days for 4 weeks or so.

Edited by Willy
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You still have them then? But hey not my plant, I got no mites and havne't for over 2 yrs. but if it dont work.. i guess the dance and voodoo worked :)

I used it at 4tlbs per gal. and did it for 2 days for 4 weeks or so.

 

My mites have been kept well in check for the current grow. There were mostly confined to the problematic strain mentioned in my original borg post. Vast majority of leaves are fine with zero mite damage. Did a couple sessions of spraying with neem water and a couple of applications of Monterey. Now it's just soap spray for the rest of the flower cycle.

 

I remain unconvinced that spinosad for mites is preferable over methods recommended by pest management experts, but it's great that you've been mite free so obviously whatever you did worked well!

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Zach... Do u keep moms and do cuttings, not a perpetual though (u flower all at once)?

 

Reason i ask is if you can get the flower room to go dry for 1-2wks (pref the full 2wks), and isolate the moms to a small size, then a single dose of well mixed horticultural oil will break the cycle once and for all, assuming complete and total coverage. There are some cautions that u must take, but it is as benign of a substance u can use, and kills all stages of mites, from egg to hungry adults. Works by simple smothering. And it really works. Just got to be careful w full emulsion/oil burn + heat. Breaks the cycle.

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Ivory liquid soap, cheap and effective.

 

Using Ivory soap requires a bit more time and due diligence though.

Every 2 - 3 days with out fail.  Clean water spray in between to wash off the dead.

Put a drop or two of olive oil in the sprayer too.

 

This method I learned in my youth and has not failed me.

 

For thrips though, I had to use something stronger, H2O2, Iso, Ivory.

 

I've burned my plants badly with too strong of a solution of horticultural oil,

esp. Rosemary Oil, that stuff is strong.

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Indigro - the springtime grow are all clones from the completed winter grow, except for one plant that I had vegging for a long time. The plants with the worst mite problems were all from the same strain. But again, I DON'T have a significant mite problem - they have been kept in check by close manual inspection & spraying and no plants will remain after the spring harvest. Not growing in the summer and will start from scratch in the fall.

 

Imiubu - yes, the soap approach is one of the most effective for mites according to a number of scientific studies. Soft soap without additional garbage such as dyes, fragrances, and especially anti-microbial ingredients. Ivory, Dr Bronner's (but not too much!), or a gentle Castile soap. Spinosad is for thrips,  white flies, and some other pests but not for mites. And DON'T use spinosad for outdoor grows if (especially) bees or butterflies have access to the plants within a few hours after spraying.

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The active ingredient in Captain Jack's Deadbug Brew is Spinosad insecticide, that is a naturally occuring soil dwelling bacterium. This unique bacterium was collected on a Caribbean island from an abadoned rum distillery in 1982 and has never been found anywhere else in the world. Spinosad pesticide Kills bagworms, borers, codling moths, spider mites and others. - See more at: http://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/     get this  spider mites,

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Indeed, spinosad is often the way to go when you DON'T want to kill mites as is mentioned in Compatibility of spinosad with predaceous mites

 

 

Copyright © 2011 Society of Chemical Industry.??   of course  Dow does not want you to use something natural as  Spinosad    

 

WTF are you talking about? DOW MAKES SPINOSAD! You are just having a knee jerk response to seeing  Society of Chemical Industry.

 

Not only that, but the part that you quoted states the exact opposite of what you are saying; it doesn't say not to use spinosad, but rather that it is safe to use in pest management when predatory mites are also being used. 

 

But I guess now that you know that Dow makes spinosad you'll stop using it?

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Predatory mites is the way to go I released some in my grow area 4 months ago it didnt kill them all but  now I see maybe one or two compared to before it was a major improvement back when I use to use azamax which proved to be disastrous on  my flowering plants ive since stopped using everything but neem oil in veg and my  bud is looking the best it has in years.

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Predatory mites is the way to go I released some in my grow area 4 months ago it didnt kill them all but  now I see maybe one or two compared to before it was a major improvement back when I use to use azamax which proved to be disastrous on  my flowering plants ive since stopped using everything but neem oil in veg and my  bud is looking the best it has in years.

Which species did you use?

 

Ladybugs?

 

Where did you get them?

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Your right it was too late..It has worked perfectly for me. no explosions or even a little bang.. killed them off in a couple weeks. you did something wrong.. It takes more than over night and two sprays. Here's afew more opinions about spinosad.. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=70895

And your kinda right before they die they lay eggs like crazy.. 

 

http://www.2ndchance.info/fleas-spinosadGarden.pdf ,

 

to control caterpillars, thrips, leafminers, borers, fruit flies, spidermites, aphids, and more. Spinosad must be ingested by the insect, therefore it has little effect on sucking insects and nontarget predatory insects. Spinosad is relatively fast acting. The pest insect dies within 1 to 2 days after ingesting the active ingredient. Spinosad will not persist in the environment. Sunlight and soil microbes break it down into carbon, hydrogen, oxygen and nitrogen. It is classified as an organic substance by the USDA National

 

Buy hey use what ever you want to.. its a free world sorta ...

 

I want to use what works...

 

I will try anything.

 

I hear you when you say it worked for you...

 

I want those same results...

 

What's the difference?

 

Why do I now have webs and massive amounts of adult mites visible wih the naked eye all over one of my plants when I soaked the holy s h I t out of it with monterey.

 

I bombed the flower room today.

 

Nothing being harvested out of there for a month so it's a good time.

 

Killed all the adults.

 

Nothing is moving now in there.

 

I HATE using a bug bomb...it is the furthest thing from organic you can do...but desperate times call for desperate measures.

 

The webs on one plant are unreal..

you could see mites moving around with a naked eye...

 

Total loss?

 

At what point do you say f u c k the room and tear it all down?

 

My grow store guy said the only way to get rid of mites is to tear everything down and start over.

 

Nothing works.

 

Might get lucky he said..

 

But truth is mites are devestating

 

Good luck he said..

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I see those pest strips hanging in medical gardens in High Times magazine. I read somewhere they use the same dichlor?$%^&* in grain storage and such, and the gas goes away after some hours. Instead of tearing down and starting over......maybe kill some flowering shilled plants after a few days of pest stripping and keep vegging ones going? 

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I want to use what works...we dont agree with what works,

 

I will try anything. You know  my recommendation 

 

I hear you when you say it worked for you... Worked fine

 

I want those same results...Its work to rid them.. not even close to easy.

 

What's the difference? I would guess, being a bit impatient and improper spraying. IMHO  Or unfortunately they got away from U before you spotted them

 

Why do I now have webs and massive amounts of adult mites visible wih the naked eye all over one of my plants when I soaked the holy s h I t out of it with monterey.  Because when there gonna die females lay tons of eggs, I believe After mating, females lay eggs on the underside of leaves at the rate of 2-6 a day. Each female may lay as many as 100 during her lifetime. Eggs hatch in 2-6 days into young mites. 

I bombed the flower room today. I prefer organics, and when i bombed one time, they didnt miss a beat coming back.

 

Nothing being harvested out of there for a month so it's a good time. Ya pyrethins break down fairly quick.

 

Killed all the adults. good

 

Nothing is moving now in there.extra good

 

I HATE using a bug bomb...it is the furthest thing from organic you can do...but desperate times call for desperate measures. I thought that in the past as well.. not anymore.I gotta smoke that bunny muffin. 

 

The webs on one plant are unreal..

you could see mites moving around with a naked eye... Been there done that ..

 

Total loss? Could well be, 

 

At what point do you say f u c k the room and tear it all down? when you got no hair left to pull out .. :)

 

My grow store guy said the only way to get rid of mites is to tear everything down and start over. That could rear its head, speed is of the essence It gets out of hand fairly quickly

 

Nothing works.   I disagree

 

Might get lucky he said..I  agree..

 

But truth is mites are devestating  Yes they are! Big Time!!

 

Good luck he said..From me as well Good luck bro!!

 

I have to say im surprised to hear your having problems, this aint your first rodeo.. Your the last one i would figure would miss mites messin with you.. .. :) 

Edited by Willy
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I feel that an IMP is  serious business, and you run it with or without mites. on a schedule .one that fits your time availability,,, and never stop doing it...

 

And i would never use the no pest strips,, if you go in that room your risking your own health. once maybe not, but repeatedly i'm sure (IMO)..n that stuff is oily so it will settle on the buds..  its not safe for consumption for any one let alone a sick person. Label says no,,.. dont even use in a barn with animals

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I use to use the no pest strips for the first 3 years and never saw a mite but I read that they are highly toxic and can actually find the way into the medicine so I put them in a ziplock bag and stored them away .

Ditto.

 

They worked great the first couple years but now I am fearful of using such a toxic product.

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anyone have substantiated go/no go on those pest strips. i hear conflicting stories year after year. the last was they are used in food grain storage safely. aint enough for me to advise their use, like saying they're used in tobacco barns..

 

 

what part of tobacco's harms are inherent and which are added toxins, anyone?  I have oodles of ancient tobacco strains in culture. I dont use tobacco anymore. But I will smoke these when I decide to grow them out. I wonder if they make me cough, or cause cancers, or heart disease anymore than inhaling any other combustive plant material?  some ills have got be a result of the hundreds of chemicals applied to the tobacco plant right up to the day of harvest I'd think. I'll do a full smoke report on my findings, maybe this summer

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