Pros & Cons: Soil Vs. Hydro?

[pic book]

haha ok its not much of a vacation, a long weekend is bout max.. you run into ph spikes an crashes.. next in line is a possible leak in the system 

Using sf organics nutes i set the rez once and change it out after flowering is finished.  60 days away is possible but with continuous monitoring via continuous phone reporting as to ph (4.2 is where i produce the most bud), ec (1.0-1.2), ppm (max 700), water temp (61f) and flow (is it?).   Wireless cameras would be next to add, but minus the cash to accomplish that, reporting sensors to my phone do totally suffice. 

Edited July 30, 2016 by pic book

[pic book]

This is always a pepsi/coke discussion. 

BS. That is head-in-the-sand arrogant ignorance.  

 

When u hydro organic and employ redundant pumps, depend on battery backup that runs one pump during a power outage so u still maintain flow, and have sensors placed that report continuously to ur phone, your only problem is to manage yield.  In Detroit, disps will take everything you need to dump.  So u need never have dry 'overages' on hand.  

 

U may be able to tell which bud is hydro but 23 of 25 testers at MOCC in 2011, could not get more than 5 of 10 correct.  

 

U don't need 72 plants to supply the needs of 6 patients and yourself.  You need only 10 in flower and 10 in veg.

 

U don't fight bud rot ever at 61f rez.  You get many fewer pests and less wpm.

 

U do spend on dehus and ac and co2 generation, expenses you may avoid in soil.

 

Set-up requires much more capital, and that is the disadvantage I'd cite, and I find it the lone disadvantage. 

[+Malamute]

Hydro cost is higher. Nutes cost more. Equipment costs more. Electric costs more.

 

 And my organic buds will always win a pepsi challenge.  Just ask anyone that knows me. :-) Its just better quality and it shows.

 

 Trust me I can argue this topic for years; I just know it isnt worth it.

 

The "best" is wtvr works best for you. Period. :-)

 

(but mine will always be better)

 

 

Heh.

 

 

Btw I am sure you can find me quoting those studies right here on this forum and more.

 

Organic is better.  Even organic "salt ferts" don't measure up and cause way more industrial waste.

[+Malamute]

Oh also, the only true test is to take clones and give one to a few people that grow differently and then do the test and compare.  Environent is crucial even when grown the same way they will turn out a bit different. 

 

Hydro increases speed a little(like I care if I veg for 2 more weeks or flower for 5 days more) and hydro tends to out quantity(like I don't already grow plenty) and I would never sell to any fukn dispensary.  No wonder the buds are always lower quality at dispenses across the country.  ;-)

 

I actually find it annoying to go to dispensaries across the country and not be able to find anything nearly as good as what i grow.

[+Malamute]

Also you have this issue.

 

What kind of organic is it? How is it labelled?

 

Categories:

 

Organic = contain at least 95–99% organic ingredients

100% organic = made with 100% organic ingredients(salt and water not included)

Made with organic ingredients = must contain 70–94% organic ingredients

Organic ingredient =  less than 70% organic ingredients

 

So what type of organic is your fertilizer actually?

 

 It can be very deceptive.

[+Malamute]

What I am saying is, you cannot grow 100% organic in hydro but you can grow organic.

[pic book]

I disagree on nute costing more for hydro.  sf organics is dirt cheap.  I got a 5-qallon pail shipped to me from illinois for for $210 delivered.  1 teaspoon per gallon of water.  It shud be stored in the dark at 40 degrees.  I bot it in April 2011 and have prolly 2 gallons remaining.

[pic book]

Also you have this issue.

 

What kind of organic is it? How is it labelled?

 

Categories:

 

Organic = contain at least 95–99% organic ingredients

100% organic = made with 100% organic ingredients(salt and water not included)

Made with organic ingredients = must contain 70–94% organic ingredients

Organic ingredient =  less than 70% organic ingredients

 

So what type of organic is your fertilizer actually?

 

 It can be very deceptive.

I challenge u:  look it up for yourself , mal. SF Organics in Illinois.

[pic book]

And post your findings here, mal.

[+Malamute]

You use more than just one fertilizer I assume right off the bat.

 

Right?

 

Other water treatment costs?

 

And fish fertilizer is great.  Just watch for mercury content. *shrug*

 

 I mean, their mixes are 2-2-0 and 2-5-0 (veg and flower respectively). Wheres the k?  the oh so vital k?

 

So that means ya need a k supplement, Maybe their kelp product. Cool, good stuff.  But, now your up to 3 fertilizers.

 

But even looking at those, you are still not getting a complete nutrient profile. Seems a bit short on the also ever important magnesium. So ya probably should also be boosting your magnesium levels a touch. 4 nutrients now...

 

 

 You get the idea...

 

 And there are 768 tsp/gallon.  I honestly cannot say how much water you use or how much waste water you create. Not sure what kind of hydro you run.

 

Oh and also, certified organic= contain at least 95–99% organic ingredients.

[+Malamute]

Just to add, you can do hydro for reasonable costs. There are ways to do it to save money for sure.

 

But I still say. The *best way* is the way that works best for you. :-)

[Alleyenoisdope]

Oh also, the only true test is to take clones and give one to a few people that grow differently and then do the test and compare.  Environent is crucial even when grown the same way they will turn out a bit different. 

 

Hydro increases speed a little(like I care if I veg for 2 more weeks or flower for 5 days more) and hydro tends to out quantity(like I don't already grow plenty) and I would never sell to any fukn dispensary.  No wonder the buds are always lower quality at dispenses across the country.  ;-)

 

I actually find it annoying to go to dispensaries across the country and not be able to find anything nearly as good as what i grow.

 

Agreed. While I'm no botanist, I do know a thing or two about conducting a controlled experiment. By using the same clones or genetics, one could somewhat compare the quality of the produce based upon the method. But even then, with the seemingly countless number of variables involved with growing high-grade meds, basing the quality of the goods solely on any one factor is quite a stretch. 

 

Side Note: Sounds like you grow some pretty good stuff over there, Mal.   I'm curious...got any samples?? I'm always looking to broaden my high-rizon.

[Alleyenoisdope]

BS. That is head-in-the-sand arrogant ignorance.  

 

When u hydro organic and employ redundant pumps, depend on battery backup that runs one pump during a power outage so u still maintain flow, and have sensors placed that report continuously to ur phone, your only problem is to manage yield.  In Detroit, disps will take everything you need to dump.  So u need never have dry 'overages' on hand.  

 

U may be able to tell which bud is hydro but 23 of 25 testers at MOCC in 2011, could not get more than 5 of 10 correct.  

 

U don't need 72 plants to supply the needs of 6 patients and yourself.  You need only 10 in flower and 10 in veg.

 

U don't fight bud rot ever at 61f rez.  You get many fewer pests and less wpm.

 

U do spend on dehus and ac and co2 generation, expenses you may avoid in soil.

 

Set-up requires much more capital, and that is the disadvantage I'd cite, and I find it the lone disadvantage. 

 

A marijuana taste testing?? Sounds pretty cool to me. If I were given different samples of  MJ of the same strain and was TRUTHFULLY told which was grown organically and which was not, after a few days of "sampling" the produce, I could NOT be fooled. (Blindfolded, hands behind my back, whatever.) They say the devil is in the details, thus I am VERY observant. 

Edited July 30, 2016 by Alleyenoisdope

[pergamum362]

I still stand bythe notion that when grown right, you cant tell the difference bysimy using it.

[t-pain]

THIS POST (AT HUGE LENGTH) STATES CHEMICAL (synthetic) NUTES ARE BAD IN BOTH SOIL AND WATER GROWING.

Thanks for the post. the soil web is important to learn for everyone.

 

keep it real, keep it simple and non toxic and renewable and recyclable and local.

[Alleyenoisdope]

I still stand bythe notion that when grown right, you cant tell the difference bysimy using it.

Ultimately, I guess, that would be the answer to the question I was looking for. If there were to be a sort of pennacle (figuritively speaking) for high-grade medical marijuana, would it be more easily achieved with dirt/soil or hydro? Or do they both EQUALLY possess the same chance of reaching the summits peak?

[pergamum362]

Ultimately, I guess, that would be the answer to the question I was looking for. If there were to be a sort of pennacle (figuritively speaking) for high-grade medical marijuana, would it be more easily achieved with dirt/soil or hydro? Or do they both EQUALLY possess the same chance of reaching the summits peak?

it all comes down the skill/knowledge of the individual doing the growing as far as quality goes. Hydro really shines when your going for speed and yield, because really faster turn over, means more yield.

 

Quality wise, i have sample meds grown both hydroponically, organicly, in soil and both that were horrible, so your back to individual skill and knowledge of general growing and strain specifics. There is no instant win button lol.

Edited August 5, 2016 by pergamum362

[Alleyenoisdope]

it all comes down the skill/knowledge of the individual doing the growing as far as quality goes. Hydro really shines when your going for speed and yield, because really faster turn over, means more yield.

 

Quality wise, i have sample meds grown both hydroponically, organicly, in soil and both that were horrible, so your back to individual skill and knowledge of general growing and strain specifics. There is no instant win button lol.

 

Gotcha and agreed. It seems as if knowledge and skill are the only two "secret" ingredients used by master growers to produce high-grade cannabis......makes sense.  I guess it really does take a bit more than a paint brush and some watercolors to complete the 16th Chapel.   Shout-out to Michelangelo, btw.  

[Norby]

Yet most of the cannabis cup winners were grown organically and some veganically.

 

And 10 plants of what size?  Small clones right into flowering producing an ounce at most a week may not supply 2 patients. 

 

Aggreed that individual skill and knowledge is the most important variable.  Bt i'll always think that done by the best of each that organic has more terpenes and flavenoids because of the precursers and every plant has THC, it's the terpenes and flavenoids that make them shine.

Edited August 8, 2016 by Norby

[trichcycler]

I hear alot about  synthetic nutrients. Do astronauts use these?  why do we have to eat beef still?

I dont know of synthetic gardening nutrients exist, but basal salts are not synthetic. Hydro nutrients are mostly water, often mixed in a garage

after a trip to the farm nutrient store.

chelators are a bugger though, and may be some alien tech synthetics.

 

More garbage enters cannabis plants from the bulk of watering hoses available(pthalates), recycled paint buckets at the dept(leaching chems from plastic), reservoir totes from the big box stores are anything but food safe. Plastic watering lines are guilty as helll, crappy water like that in Flint is cause for concern, dehumidifier watered reuse is scary. I care more of these things than of the established bottled nutrients at the grow store hiding in my supply.

[WET]

Yet most of the cannabis cup winners were grown organically and some veganically.

 

And 10 plants of what size?  Small clones right into flowering producing an ounce at most a week may not supply 2 patients. 

 

Aggreed that individual skill and knowledge is the most important variable.  Bt i'll always think that done by the best of each that organic has more terpenes and flavenoids because of the precursers and every plant has THC, it's the terpenes and flavenoids that make them shine.

^^^^this!! All the way!! Your first statement should be the beginning, the middle, and the end of this story. Organic or veganic soil produces superior medical cannabis and can surely be achieved with far less waste than hydro. No offense to the chosen path of op! I love dirt and poop!!!

 

Wet

[trichcycler]

I love hydro. I love dirt growing too. I love hybrids combining both.

I think it comes down to a matter of style, garden habits, space, dexterity, time, money,

and lots other variables .

 

 I loved the tinker factor when I was growing at first, 12 plants for myself. My harvests exceeded my

expectations of quality and quantity. I was nervous reading all the chit others were paddling through.

 

After a few months of great harvests I stuck a couple 5 gallon buckets with promix and organicare crumble ferts per directions.

I put a couple 18's in the buckets, in my top 5 then, and they grew along side the 18's in the flood and drain trays. I was using the technaflora

kit at the time and then the advanced nutrients line up$ once again.

 

I watched the real life difference evolve in real time. The dirt was winning hands down in every category. Except for vegetation speed, a 2 week lag without foliar feed, even steven with. I could smell the differences in both the techna and the advanced trays, both were awesome and much the same, compared to the dirt buckets.  then the colors, then the smells some more, and more, and more.............then the tastes........oh my.

 

I vouch for the environment being spot on, nutrients, temps, water quality, along the way and grew these first times in tents. Since then I've tried some other nute systems in hydro attempting the same results...nadda. they were all great harvests, nobody every complained about either, , but I knew, and I was already using my organics exclusively.

I settled on the DM Gold line as my favorite but enjoyed all of them. AN has some tricks, but I dont like tricks much in my product, chem chelators, alien tech...

I did find their Iguana line to be one of the only two able to take a flowering plant in hydro, almost to the end without deficiencies, almost, but not quite.

 

I started planning the change over immediately, packed and racked my 3x3 and 4x4 trays, said good riddance to my reservoirs-a huge savings in removing humidity from the room, until I got octopots that is....I went from three gallons a day removal with hydro to less than a gallon a week with all dirt buckets, then back up to a gallon a day with octopots' exposed grow bags.

 

I've sampled crappy organic  cannabis, and crappy hydro too. I've also grown grade A in both. I choose dirt for a umber of reason along with flavor and terpene profile exploitation. Power outs kill hydro cannabis before dirt does. Dirt produces less humidity in my room, a peeve of mine, hydro makes more noise than dirt, like wet vacs for instance....lol

 

I have a shelf of basal salts and can mix my own if needed, or tweak to my liking(see pic) go from 2-2-3 to 10-12-10 for fun visuals. I have a shelf of brand hydro nutes too, now using both in some hybrid octopots, organic above in the dirt and  hydro nutes in the small res. The results are awesome and a blast to work with. The best of both worlds. I need fungus in my plant root zone to be satisfied, hydro didnt give that to me in ways I appreciated--thats my verdict. I still love hydro, and have various hydro projects going full time. but my meds and my patients' meds all are grown organic style, because they demand it, like me.

  (pic is hydro, flood and drain, technaflora with added salts, grown in one gallon bag of rocks!)

[Alleyenoisdope]

Yet most of the cannabis cup winners were grown organically and some veganically.

 

Hmmm, very interesting. This speaks to me. I will do my much needed dilligence on the subject and come back to this one.

[trichcycler]

to be fair to dirt, these were grown in 1 gallon  bags too, organic style=safe water hoses, dedicated garden spring, cert organic feed, no sprays/dips/bombs/treatments. 

 

[pergamum362]

The only way to settle this age old debate, since places now do these things, is to distrubute the same cut to everyone, run it the way you intend, send in to psi or lab of choicing, and order thc/terpene etc profiles...and compare...oh plus you know the standard blind smoke test.

 

 

On another note, i highly doubt heavy 16 is watered down, these nutes are thick and highly concentrated using only 1ml/per gallon. I finally finished buying the line, took a few weeks as the 1 liter and 4 liter bottles are quite expensive, but with a 1 liter bottle doing 956 or so gallons of water, and that gallon of water(resevior) lasting about a week to 14 days, it was well worth it in my mind...plus the end results are on par, if not better than my exp with advanced.