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Guns And Mmm Patients


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Wow, banning an idea and relating it to abuses of power to drive your point(hint: no matter how hard you try you can't stomp out an idea no matter what it does in the wrong hands of power or how much you "dislike" the idea, you can only keep level headed and try to explain(read up on the mutual arising of opposites).  He's a person with no power, Bill Shuette is the comparison you make?  Well maybe he should apologize to you as I didn't see any pms.  You want to let an idea flow and make an enemy or deal with it. you may want to think more how your framing this and if any other inconsistencies may apply.  Maybe I should read the thread but if what resto posted as a threat is the worst I won't bother.

Edited by Norby
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Wow, banning an idea and relating it to abuses of power to drive your point(hint: no matter how hard you try you can't stomp out an idea no matter what it does in the wrong hands of power or how much you "dislike" the idea, you can only keep level headed and try to explain(read up on the mutual arising of opposites).  He's a person with no power, Bill Shuette is the comparison you make?  Well maybe he should apologize to you as I didn't see any pms.  You want to let an idea flow and make an enemy or deal with it. you may want to think more how your framing this and if any other inconsistencies may apply.  Maybe I should read the thread but if what resto posted as a threat is the worst I won't bother.

Ya think?

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You shouldn't be taking your medications and hunting at the same time. Handling firearms is best done in a clear state of mind, so lets avoid being a newspaper article/headline that ends up being used against the movement in the future, k?

This is what first bothered me. I find it different than my opinion. My mind is clear enough to use a gun responsibly when I use my medications because I'm used to them.

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You know resto, I'm pretty sure that's the same sort of justification that drunks and alcoholics used for themselves. Maybe if they're in a bit of a stupor they should adjust their beer dosage before hunting, eh? But hey man, I'm sure double standards are just a passing fad, am I right? 

 

Phaq you may have read a little too much into it-go smoke another one and chill before hopping onto some trolls D.

Then this comparo between cannabis and alcohol is bogus.

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It isn't an opinion resto. It's a fact that you cannot seem to comprehend. Try to understand, you'll get it one day.

 

Zap, I can't go rounds on the subject because it'd be deleted. Like it has been before. Multiple times.

Then he states his opinion is FACT. Not willing to just have differing opinions. My opinion is worthless and his is fact. So much so that I need to get beat up a couple times over it. 

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Then he states his opinion is FACT. Not willing to just have differing opinions. My opinion is worthless and his is fact. So much so that I need to get beat up a couple times over it. 

I have to say,  I realy think abom was having a bad day!

 

You know I have done the same s hit too many times :yahoo-wave:

me and you have talked pm, we have alot in common,  we argue on here like crazy, or we used to,  I guess im in a much better place than I used to be,  Im thinking when I used to realy lash out on here it was because of what was going on at home,  I have since gone thru a big change as far as homes and who I devote my time and energy too!

 

Im not making up any excuses for abom,  the graphic head pounding most def was disturbing,  I seen myself in some of them state ments,  I honestly can only feel bad for the guy, I feel for you too!

 

I would be willing to bet something is not right in abom life at this time, I will keep him in my thoughts!

 

 

some of us are quick to jump on people who disagree(im one of us) I am going to start reading my post before I press the button, alot of times I just dont post it when I do that,,,,,especialy when Im having  stinking thinking lol!

 

 

abom what did you mean for me to burn one before I jump on some troll,,,,,,,,what is a troll lol!

 

Peace

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I have to say,  I realy think abom was having a bad day!

 

You know I have done the same s hit too many times :yahoo-wave:

me and you have talked pm, we have alot in common,  we argue on here like crazy, or we used to,  I guess im in a much better place than I used to be,  Im thinking when I used to realy lash out on here it was because of what was going on at home,  I have since gone thru a big change as far as homes and who I devote my time and energy too!

 

Im not making up any excuses for abom,  the graphic head pounding most def was disturbing,  I seen myself in some of them state ments,  I honestly can only feel bad for the guy, I feel for you too!

 

I would be willing to bet something is not right in abom life at this time, I will keep him in my thoughts!

 

 

some of us are quick to jump on people who disagree(im one of us) I am going to start reading my post before I press the button, alot of times I just dont post it when I do that,,,,,especialy when Im having  stinking thinking lol!

 

 

abom what did you mean for me to burn one before I jump on some troll,,,,,,,,what is a troll lol!

 

Peace

The first thing, first and foremost, is that he doesn't understand us at all. Doesn't understand cannabis and patients at all. Compares us to drunks. It's a really ignorant stance. Just like someone like Schuette would say. Then make sure it's not just his opinion, it's a fact, and don't forget it (you filthy animals) I'll pound it into you. You are all drunks and stay away from firearms while you are drunk on cannabis. It's offensive. Worse than the threat of a beat down. 

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The first thing, first and foremost, is that he doesn't understand us at all. Doesn't understand cannabis and patients at all. Compares us to drunks. It's a really ignorant stance. Just like someone like Schuette would say. Then make sure it's not just his opinion, it's a fact, and don't forget it (you filthy animals) I'll pound it into you. You are all drunks and stay away from firearms while you are drunk on cannabis. It's offensive. Worse than the threat of a beat down. 

I totaly agree that mm and alcohol cant be compared,  I never drank and went deer hunting,  we used to go hunting and than get drunk after dinner when it was dark and hunting was over and guns were unloaded and put in their cases!

 

I beleive I can do anything and even some things better when im on mmj!  I used to do alot of commercial wall coverings (union) and when a hard spot was coming up,  I would actualy go burn one and come back and whip right thru the hard part w/o even thinking,,,,,,I have alot of awsome letters of recomendations from some realy famous people!  Ernie banks, the Fords (i have worked on most of the fords homes that are in grosse pointe) scott mitchell lol the lions clumsy quarter back of yester year!  any one that is any one up here where I live I have done work for!

 

marijuana dont make me uncomfortable in front of others, it is just an every day part of my life and has been from a very young age lol!

 

I dont think I ever went deer hunting or pat hunting or fishing or anything not under the influence of mmj!   If I have to do something important I dont even think about not smoking one before, it is just normal for me,,,,,,,,,,but I have to say, I cant stand seeing younger people 17 thru maybe 23 smoke, they get all giggly and idiotic, some people cant handle life on mm and wait until nite time when they dont have to do anything to medicate,  my lady is like that, I just laugh and dont understand why it is an issue for some, but it is.

 

I dont object to people waiting to medicate untill after they hunt, it is their choice,

 

I have come out of the woods and had the dnr stop me so many times to check my weapons and liscense and not one time did they acuse me of being high on mm, and I was beleive me!

 

Peace

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^^^ Right. Some folks just don't understand hunters or patients.

 

Hunting, for some, is a life experience that can last days, weeks, months, all day long. Cannabis, for some, is a life experience that can last a lifetime. To eliminate the cross section of the two would be denying a right or privilege that is one of our inalienable rights. 

 

It's the same BS that we hear about driving. If you think you can't hunt or drive while consuming cannabis then take a nap. Those of us used to our medicine will carry on without you. 

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This is what first bothered me. I find it different than my opinion. My mind is clear enough to use a gun responsibly when I use my medications because I'm used to them.

Ya, everyone is different, are you saying you can't be too stoned to use a gun recreationally.  Personally I wouldn't have a bunch of my friends over, smoke them down and pull out the pistols but......  Whatever floats your boat.  Do you think that people should be able to go to a busy range stoned?  These are complex subjects do you think that EVERYONE is going to be on the same page?  Seems like you want EVERYONE here to think the same.  When really both ideas are wrong and right at the same time, depending on the situation.  you kick out everyone who doesn't think like you and, well I can see why the politicians are winning.  you guys couldn't get together to save the whole program!

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two kinds of people, gun nuts and everyone else

 

gun nuts are the ones you see protesting for the ability to open carry in schools, protesting in city halls and senate hearings and are loud mouth jerks.

 

everyone else, including people who carry concealed or carry open but arent loud jerks about it, or people who dont like guns, go on with their lives.

 

which one are you?

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Well, it seems they may have been using too few words to desccribe their ideas and well, you know resto, he's chicken little around here and tends to escalate things, crap a bunch of you do.  I just put to sleep the closest thing on earth to me and have been dealing with that the last few days and I'm nowhere near as mean as you guys are to each other. I hope you guys find peace and understanding, really.  That is the exact reason i haven't been here much since I've got better, I just can't.  Either tolorate someone having a bad life and deal with ideas or fuk, just start booting people out like you would have me over mandatory testing, and I wasn't even for it other than 3rd party sales and resto was all over me, like my thoughts matter, so I can see both sides, whos MOST at fault, I really dont care.  if you guys can't work it out best to all of you.

 

Life's too short to look only at the differences between you, start looking for the sames.

Edited by Norby
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In Michigan more people are prosecuted each year for the charge of operating under the influence of drugs.  These charges continue to be difficult for prosecutors to prove.  This is because unlike alcohol, there are no legal limits for drugs.


In Michigan, there are two ways to prove the charge of OWI – Drugs.  The first is to show the mere presence of the drug.   This crime is called OWPD (Operating with Presence Drugs).  This legal theory applies when a person has any amount (mere presence) of certain types of illegal drugs, including drugs like marijuana, heroin and cocaine. 


Another theory for OWI – Drugs in Michigan applies for nearly any other type drug that has any affect on the human body.  The only proviso is that prosecutor must show that the drug has impaired your ability to drive or has otherwise caused intoxication.  This theory is called OUID (Operating Under the Influence of Drugs) and applies to all prescription and non-prescription (over the counter) drugs.


The problem with most non-presence OWI – Drugs (OUID) cases is that it is difficult or impossible to show that a blood level of a particular drug actually caused any impairment or intoxication.  If the prosecutor can’t otherwise prove this, then there can be no conviction.


The trouble comes when a prosecutor tries to suggest (as they often do) that there is in fact a relationship between a blood drug level and intoxication.  This is simply not possible.  Because of this a prosecutor must show actual driving impairment and show that there is a correlation between the drug and the impairment.  Neither is an easy task because there is no legal limit for drugs.


This inability to set a legal limit for drugs is due to the fact that impairment by controlled substances is not nearly as well characterized as with alcohol (i.e. evaluated by way of controlled studies).  There are many factors of significance all of which can affect a drugs influence on function.  These factors include the dose, time since last ingestion, presence of other drugs (including alcohol) and history of use.  Thus, correlating levels of drugs with degree of impairment is subjective. 


http://winbackyourlife.org/operating-under-influence-of-drugs/


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You are not booted over mandatory testing; here you are. To me there is a large and obvious difference here. I may not be communicating it effectively.

 

Make no mistake; the daily struggles patients face are directly related to cannabis's popularity as a supposed intoxicant. After all these years I believe very few people use cannabis as an intoxicant. The reason I believe this is that it simply doesn't work very well. If you use it every day, especially the same strains and similar dosages, it no longer has an intoxicating effect.

 

Compound that with the fact that every patient selects strains differently, and assuming a patient is impaired or high even immediately after using cannabis is an error. You know this as much yourself: you can smoke a gigantic joint of high-CBD herb and have no impairment or psychoactive effect whatsoever.

 

Patients understand cannabis impairment intimately, as most are attempting to avoid it in their daily lives. To compare a patient who understands their dosage and medicinal use and claims they are not impaired with a drunk rationalizing getting behind the wheel, for instance...well I hope I've communicated it better at this point.

 

It's really offensive and I refuse to allow it to be posted here, much as I would ban a persona that continuously tries to convince members that they are not really using cannabis as medicine and really just want to get high, or a host of other BS that is thrown at patients on a daily basis all over the country.

After all these years very few use as an intoxicant?  You should really get out more Zap.  Patients are different than people enjoying a smoke to wind down.  And you seem to think I'm sticking up for what Abomb said and what I'm doing is trying to point out both sides dug in their feet and became more radicalized because it was a fight.  I'm on a NY page about MMJ and these first timers are getting dizzy and not reacting the way most do after getting their dose strait.  Your rationalizing because you are like a politician, only seeing ONE side. 

Great, protect them all from teh real world, your doing a good job.  make enemies because of their views, compare anyone here to Shuette that you'd like.  People have to face reality and be able to deal.  that's not happening here.  Keep people who don't think alike seperated.  You notice I'm not here often.  Your resto watch dog has a knack of playing victim when he and bb escalate things.  They can't take criticism, like others and can't let something go.  They escalate.  And if Droman didn't pm you to apologize he's at fault to.  You all are.  Except Phaq. :)

 

So it's always going to be an all or none with you guys, no one will ever get along here.  Realy putting hi CBD into it, man you are reaching.  If that's how politics work, if there is no distinction on anything, then were fuked.  cause it'll never be abrogate.  I see thhis place a lot better for what it is.  Love the people in person but the politics divides everyone.

Edited by Norby
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After all these years very few use as an intoxicant?  You should really get out more Zap.  Patients are different than people enjoying a smoke to wind down.  And you seem to think I'm sticking up for what Abomb said and what I'm doing is trying to point out both sides dug in their feet and became more radicalized because it was a fight.  I'm on a NY page about MMJ and these first timers are getting dizzy and not reacting the way most do after getting their dose strait.  Your rationalizing because you are like a politician, only seeing ONE side. 

Great, protect them all from teh real world, your doing a good job.  make enemies because of their views, compare anyone here to Shuette that you'd like.  People have to face reality and be able to deal.  that's not happening here.  Keep people who don't think alike seperated.  You notice I'm not here often.  Your resto dog has a knack of playing victim when he and bb escalate things.  They can't take criticism, like others and can't let something go.  They escalate.  And if Droman didn't pm you to apologize he's at fault to.  You all are.  Except Phaq. :)

 

So it's always going to be an all or none with you guys, no one will ever get along here.  Realy putting hi CBD into it, man you are reaching.  If that's how politics work, if there is no distinction on anything, then were fuked.  cause it'll never be abrogate.  I see thhis place a lot better for what it is.  Love the people in person but the politics divides everyone.

Medical marijuana. The kind people use in place of pain killers for chronic conditions. The kind you have to qualify for because you have a serious medical condition. We are not playing games here. This is our medicine of choice. We have used it for a considerable amount of time and are used to the side effects. We can drive and shoot guns. We are not under the influence or impaired by it. 

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Constructive Possession

An interesting situation can arise if one person of the household has a CPL and another member has a Michigan Medical Marijuana Card. There is a theory called “constructive possession” where even if the person does not have the firearm on their persons, if they are able to access it easily it can constitute possession of said firearm. Therefore, say a husband has a pistol. He takes the pistol off of his persons and lays it down on a dresser. His wife has a Michigan Marijuana Card. If he does not secure the pistol in a locked container (safe, locked drawer) which prevents the wife from accessing it then she could be charged with constructive possession thus putting her in violation of the law. Therefore it is always important that a person with a CPL be cognizant at all times of the location of their weapon so as to avoid any potential problems stemming from a “constructive possession”.

 

http://michigan-marijuana-lawyer.com/medical-marijuana-card-cpl-michigan/

Edited by bobandtorey
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This is our, medical cannabis patients, front line. This is where we show our back bone. This is where we stop them from making us sit at home for the rest of our lives because we don't have any rights left. This is it folks. The most important fight we have today.  It's a fight for our very lives because once you don't have any rights left you don't even have a life. 

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See, this just happens here.  You have me arguing AGAINST guns.  We just go further and further since no one will acknowledge it's complicated and we generally agree.  Everyone pushes to the extreme. 

 

I love you guys and gals, esp. in person, but I can't handle such division.  There's a country that needs saving and the groups keep getting smaller and smaller on each issue. I really don't think most understand what divide and conquer is?  It means radicalize everyone in their views so politicians can have control and then the groups start battling each other over views while the politicians walk all over us.  sticking up for our rights is needed and great but going to the extreme as to not acknowledge ANY "danger" is not doing the movement ANY good.  You have to see how other people are reacting or else you just argue what's right for you and everyone gets divided.

Edited by Norby
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I'm sure that a medical card holder with rights can make choices today that will negate those rights even with the card.

I highly advise patients to make choices that retain their rights and not choices that put their rights at risk. 

In other words, in the context of the discussion here; Quit hunting and driving until you quit cannabis. Gotcha. That's your opinion and we understand where you come from.

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