Guns And Mmm Patients

[Restorium2]

See, this just ahppens here.  You have me arguing AGAINST guns.  We just go further and further since no one will acknowledge it's complicated and we generally agree.  Everyone pushes to the extreme. 

First you didn't read the thread and were arguing. Now you realize that you were on the wrong side all along. 

[trichcycler]

In other words, in the context of the discussion here; Quit hunting and driving until you quit cannabis. Gotcha. That's your opinion and we understand where you come from.

 

In other words you would like to see patients pay money for their defense in this matter so you can do what you feel is acceptable?

 

why would you choose to put words in my mouth as opposed to simply acknowledging what it is I said?  Oh wait, I know, we coul deasily argue about the words you made up, but mine are sensible. I see. carry on.

[Norby]

Yes, the politics that AbominableDro-Man posted are some of what divides us. That is why he is gone. Anybody else that insists on doing similar will be gone too, as I stated above. If somebody comes here thinking they force all the patients to "face reality" that they are just potheads getting high (or whatever the point is) and then starts spewing unsupported drivel that is anti-patient, they'll get the boot. I think that is fair, and what is desired from most members of our website.

Ya but your comparing a patient to Bill Shuette. You just don't get it.  Wow, now worrying about dangers with guns is like Bill Shuette saying patients are getting hi and aren't sick.  I can't deal with the "logic" here and I have things to do.  Might as well kick me out as I feel patients need protection from SOME caregivers out there.  Reality is that you can medicate enough not to be able to drive, ask Phaq. He couldn't be woke up by his wife, thats reality and you seem to have a problem with it.  Now you have me arguing against taking too much oil and driving.  WTF!

[trichcycler]

Yes, the politics that AbominableDro-Man posted are some of what divides us. That is why he is gone. Anybody else that insists on doing similar will be gone too, as I stated above. If somebody comes here thinking they force all the patients to "face reality" that they are just potheads getting high (or whatever the point is) and then starts spewing unsupported drivel that is anti-patient, they'll get the boot. I think that is fair, and what is desired from most members of our website.

 

why keep referring to us as "potheads" when nobody else is?

 

Back on topic, thank you for pasting the law concerning maintaining rights with a medical card, now  will you share  a copy/paste of the MI gun laws concerning using drugs while  shooting guns?

 

I do not feel "drunk" or "high" after medicating with cannabis. Are you suggesting then that going to the range after medicating is legal?  Or smoking a joint in your deer blind with a loaded gun?  

 

I dont like it either, but fact is the law says we cannot be under the influence of drugs while shooting right?  it sucks for patients sure, because a prosecutor could say we were "high" during ANY infraction, and that does suck, but breaking the law wont get us closer to what we want will it?

[Restorium2]

Ya but your comparing a patient to Bill Shuette. You just don't get it.  Wow, now worrying about dangers with guns is like Bill Shuette saying patients are getting hi and aren't sick.  I can't deal with the "logic" here and I have things to do.  Might as well kick me out as I feel patients need protection from SOME caregivers out there.  Reality is that you can medicate enough not to be able to drive, ask Phaq. He couldn't be woke up by his wife, thats reality and you seem to have a problem with it.  Now you have me arguing against taking too much oil and driving.  WTF!

Bill Schuette's talking points, not the person. 

[Restorium2]

why keep referring to us as "potheads" when nobody else is?

 

Back on topic, thank you for pasting the law concerning maintaining rights with a medical card, now  will you share  a copy/paste of the MI gun laws concerning using drugs while  shooting guns?

 

I do not feel "drunk" or "high" after medicating with cannabis. Are you suggesting then that going to the range after medicating is legal?  Or smoking a joint in your deer blind with a loaded gun?  

 

I dont like it either, but fact is the law says we cannot be under the influence of drugs while shooting right?  it sucks for patients sure, because a prosecutor could say we were "high" during ANY infraction, and that does suck, but breaking the law wont get us closer to what we want will it?

You are going to have to define 'under the influence' to make this a cohesive discussion. You are advocating for zero tolerance here. 

[Restorium2]

I mentioned the motor skills test, the field sobriety test, before all the bullying and excuses.

[Norby]

What about the 2 guys who took medibles and transported pot thru wyoming and pulled over and started flagging down teh "unmarked vehicles" that were following them to turn themselves in. Then they called the cops on themselves and got busted.   Think they should've been driving or having guns that paranoid?  and they were patients, just to clarify.  Don't want to radicalize this talk anymore.  You need a lot of words to get a point across and I don't think people use all of them here which creates division thru interpretation.

[Restorium2]

With no real test their are no real rights for us. Just stay home until you quit cannabis. Game over. They win and we lose.

[Restorium2]

What about the 2 guys who took medibles and transported pot thru wyoming and pulled over and started flagging down teh "unmarked vehicles" that were following them to turn themselves in. Then they called the cops on themselves and got busted.   Think they should've been driving or having guns that paranoid?  and they were patients, just to clarify.  Don't want to radicalize this talk anymore.  You need a lot of words to get a point across and I don't think people use all of them here which creates division thru interpretation.

You can find criminals everywhere, but we are not criminals. We don't need our rights given away because there is a criminal doing this or that and they have some pot on them. That would be the straw man argument by our opposition (not mentioning a name this time but you know who).

[trichcycler]

Defense for what? What did they do, why did they get arrested?

um, shooting a gun while using cannabis for instance. Is this legal according to MI firearm laws and lara?

[Restorium2]

um, shooting a gun while using cannabis for instance. Is this legal according to MI firearm laws and lara?

Read the Act.

[Norby]

And thanks for getting my mind off what I had to go thru with my dog yesterday!  This helps.  I like conversations, they try to find out what's right, in arguments you try to find out who's right.  Seems to be too much argument and not enough conversation.  And maybe you should vote on what patients want from this site.  Bill Shueete should'nt be allowed unless he's come to learn, any patient should be able to speak their mind here, esp. with the way arguments go.  NO ONE PERSON is at fault, there is what's said and then there is REACTION, both are equal, their just words and thoughts not actions.  Anyone remember the adage sticks and stones?

[trichcycler]

. Grassmatch seems to believe they should,

 

 

you must have missed the part where I said "it sucks" ?   then why do you post such rubbish about me personally ? if you want me to leave, I will, just ask.

[trichcycler]

If the Michigan Gun Laws call for punishment of those possessing or using firearms under the influence of medical cannabis, as allowed by the MMMA, then they are simply nullified by section 7(e), which I posted.

 

 

got it, thank you.

 

Is there one offense that a card holder could commit where the card would not serve to protect them?  card holders are arrested and charged all the time. feds wont even allow the mention of the card. courts are (edit-successfully)prosecuting card holders for much simpler issues than smoking while shooting right?  

Edited August 4, 2016 by grassmatch

[Norby]

Actually, it is you guys that just don't get it. AbominableDro-Man's arguments lead straight to patients being punished for possessing firearms. Grassmatch seems to believe they should, too. A clear constitutional right they deny patients and caregivers have, with no basis whatsoever in law or science.

 

And why would they do this when they personally believe they can determine when they are impaired or not? (Ever checked your THC blood levels? Would a rogue prosecutor agree?) Anybody paying attention a little bit should understand what happened when the Koon decision was issued by the Court of Appeals: it became a criminal act for patients to drive.

 

That was wrong, and reversed by the Michigan Supreme Court. This is the exact same issue.

WHAT?  how can what some one person SAYS here lead to punishment of patients?  It's a fuking post on a website, you really are dillusional on what this is.  It's not cops on the street, abomb is NOT responsible for people getting locked up.  The thought is and you can't keep a thought from politicians by banning someone from this site.  Sorry that things don't work that way.

 

So you are saying that a patient who can't pass, or anyone, a field sobriety test won't be taken in for dui? That sucks and is dangerous.  I agree that Blood level, saliva etc. aren't accurate but anyone can be tested to see if they are impaired. MJ or not, I dont think anyone should be able to drive impaired or SHOOT a gun(they can own for defense and shoot in their property but I don't want some one who can't see strait or may be paranoid because the mis dosed on the range next to me)

[trichcycler]

Read the Act.

I have, then called a lawyer, one you know even, and was clearly told NO SHOOTING GUNS WHILE SMOKING CANNABIS.

 

Do you know of any other firearm laws that were crimes before 2008 in MI that are no longer considered a crime to commit as long as you have a card while committing said crime?  gun law is federal?  do they even care if you have a card while hunting with a gun?

[Restorium2]

People do weird stuff when they drive or shoot. I wouldn't be surprised if someone might text while shooting. Sounds ridiculous but the example is there to show you that medical cannabis patients are not some special case that needs to be carefully watched more than some idiot that wants to be stupid while driving or shooting. It's a red herring to mess us up as a group. They know we will always test positive so they know they can kick us with this anytime they want to. It's not right and it's not going to be good for any of us to bend over for it. 

[trichcycler]

No, not right. This is nearly as simple an issue as you can get under the MMMA, and the question has even been to the Supreme Court in People v Koon. Patients and caregivers have their firearms returned by law enforcement after a winning case, but not their marijuana, for instance. It is absolutely clear that patients and caregivers have the right to possess and use firearms in Michigan.

yep, but can they shoot while smoking cannabis in their deer blind legally we wonder. Was Koon shooting at something under the influence of cannabis when arrested?

 

and the 1st question was "Is there one offense that a card holder could commit where the card would not serve to protect them?  card holders are arrested and charged all the time. feds wont even allow the mention of the card"

[Restorium2]

I have, then called a lawyer, one you know even, and was clearly told NO SHOOTING GUNS WHILE SMOKING CANNABIS.

 

Do you know of any other firearm laws that were crimes before 2008 in MI that are no longer considered a crime to commit as long as you have a card while committing said crime?  gun law is federal?  do they even care if you have a card while hunting with a gun?

You called an attorney? And got the whole answer you wanted from this phone call? You bend very easily. I'm not so bendy when I understand when things are not right. I'm not going to shoot my gun WHILE smoking. That would be like texting and driving. 

[phaquetoo]

Constructive Possession

An interesting situation can arise if one person of the household has a CPL and another member has a Michigan Medical Marijuana Card. There is a theory called “constructive possession” where even if the person does not have the firearm on their persons, if they are able to access it easily it can constitute possession of said firearm. Therefore, say a husband has a pistol. He takes the pistol off of his persons and lays it down on a dresser. His wife has a Michigan Marijuana Card. If he does not secure the pistol in a locked container (safe, locked drawer) which prevents the wife from accessing it then she could be charged with constructive possession thus putting her in violation of the law. Therefore it is always important that a person with a CPL be cognizant at all times of the location of their weapon so as to avoid any potential problems stemming from a “constructive possession”.

 

http://michigan-marijuana-lawyer.com/medical-marijuana-card-cpl-michigan/

bob there was always a loaded pistol or 2 in my home while growing up, so in theory my mother, myself, brother and sister were in constructive possession all of our youth and my mom for 58 yrs!

 

Every where my old man goes he carry's his pistol, so when he is in a hotel and it is not on his waiste or shoulder strap any one with access to the room is in constructive possession!

 

Im glad I have never been prosecuted for his weapon, especial when I was younger and cops used to bring me home and put me in bed lol!

 

I dont  think I have ever heard of a person getting charged for constructive possession because some one else had a ccw and a loaded gun, man I have been in possession since the day I was born!

 

anal sex is ilegal also but men can marry men, ummm are they gonna start arresting people for things they do in there bedrooms next?

 

There are alot of bad laws on the book that dont get policed any longer!

 

Peace

[trichcycler]

People do weird stuff when they drive or shoot. I wouldn't be surprised if someone might text while shooting. Sounds ridiculous but the example is there to show you that medical cannabis patients are not some special case that needs to be carefully watched more than some idiot that wants to be stupid while driving or shooting. It's a red herring to mess us up as a group. They know we will always test positive so they know they can kick us with this anytime they want to. It's not right and it's not going to be good for any of us to bend over for it. 

 

bravo!

 

totally understood. I hate to rile up patients to "not bend" while the courts fill up with plea bargaining court appointed lawyers though.  Yelling here about what should be is cool, but maybe not good advice to keep patients safe?

[trichcycler]

Only laws that punish medical use of marijuana in accordance with the MMMA. Those laws are explicitly nullified by section 7(e) for patients and their caregivers.

the state marijuana laws nullify federal firearm laws?

[trichcycler]

zap-on topic, "taking your meds and hunting at the same time"

You shouldn't be taking your medications and hunting at the same time. Handling firearms is best done in a clear state of mind, so lets avoid being a newspaper article/headline that ends up being used against the movement in the future, k?

[Restorium2]

bravo!

 

totally understood. I hate to rile up patients to "not bend" while the courts fill up with plea bargaining court appointed lawyers though.  Yelling here about what should be is cool, but maybe not good advice to keep patients safe?

Who is yelling? Only you. We are resolute and in the right. Calm, cool, and confident, against a wall of obfuscation and wrongness.