Michigan Senate Approves Medical Marijuana Tax, Regulations

[cristinew]

but when it was just me I kept my geo metro and only charged $5 a gram. Dude, I completely respect your need and right for oil. I don't think this is a good way to get it, but I understand. I hope you're not taking offense to my. I'm just a beard behind a screen that doesn't want to see my wife pay over $30,000 a year for oil. That's not right no matter how you slice up the pie. And I get that if the law passes, I have more room to make oil....but it's no guarantee that I'll be around. No promises that the next cg will be as kind.

 

Wet

competition drives prices down, and the consumer's dollar has the most power

When you're no longer the only dealer on the block, 

Understand you can make your own oil or buy it,   Soon the more dispensaries  the more pot on the market, You people do not understand simple economics 

if the law passes, I have more room to make oil....but it's no guarantee that I'll be around.  ?? YOU cannot make oil now 

[Greg Rx]

Shoot! Looks like it would be a great time to have a packaging facility or armored truck. F-ing hacks.

 

Wet

Still time to get in on the ground floor

[Greg Rx]

I believe this needs to be signed by the Governor which i don't see happening,also law enforcement is against it. 

Gives them many new tools to search, seize, and arrest.

[Greg Rx]

Guess I was more wondering about the forfeiture of the cg status if becoming licensed. Why was that important?

Dispensaries did not want competition and caregivers do not collect taxes.  

[Greg Rx]

Not seeing where it is going to hurt patients outside of a slippery slope fallacy.  I think, if anything, it is a step towards outright legalization.  Republicans will lose seats this Fall.  If Democrats can get young people and minorities to the polls in 2018, we may again have a majority of Democrats who would expand this or possibly another run at MILegalize in 2018.  The caregiver system will continue to work if enough patients support it.

If it took 75% to amend the act, does it take 75% to change it back? Dems are never going to be 75%

[Greg Rx]

I can't wait for $100+ grams of extract. Jeezus....anyone on the rso regimen would be down $3000 or more a month. Good and bad? I missed the good I think. I'm also an donkey rectum. That could be a part of it. flower them. When this passes and I can make oil....it's fooking free.

Oils and edibles are not really illegal. Doesn't mean they won't try but a good lawyer (do we know any?) will beat it.

[CedarSpringsCG]

I can't wait for $100+ grams of extract. Jeezus....anyone on the rso regimen would be down $3000 or more a month. Good and bad? I missed the good I think. I'm also an donkey rectum. That could be a part of it. flower them. When this passes and I can make oil....it's fooking free.

Have you seen the price of Chemo?  With insurance it can cost $3000 a month and it is proven to be 12% effective on most cancers.  My wife was in Chemo for 6 months, total cost of $180,000, and they said she would need it again in 3 years, every 3 years until it eventually kills her.  Cancer costs WAY more even with insurance than $3000 a month, and you don't have to kill yourself with Chemo/surgery/radiation just to get rid of cancer.

 

Insurance covered most, but if MJ was legal, it would be covered as well.  She's been off Chemo for almost 9 years now, mostly because of oil.  I make a 80% oil and I have never charged over $50 a gram... Well once I did for $75, but that was before I purchased some recapture equipment saving me time and money in supplies.

 

Full disclosure: I plan on opening a dispensary, not because of money, but because I really believe that this can save lives, or at least make them better.  there are some that really want to do things right for the right reasons.  I don't expect people like Mal to come in, simply because he is all set, and I don't want people like that.  But I have a waiting list, and know other CG;'s with waiting lists because they can't find a good CG.  a collective dispensary like this would allow us to reach more people with good quality MEDICAL marijuana, and not just shake and brick weed.

[WET]

Have you seen the price of Chemo? With insurance it can cost $3000 a month and it is proven to be 12% effective on most cancers. My wife was in Chemo for 6 months, total cost of $180,000, and they said she would need it again in 3 years, every 3 years until it eventually kills her. Cancer costs WAY more even with insurance than $3000 a month, and you don't have to kill yourself with Chemo/surgery/radiation just to get rid of cancer.

 

Insurance covered most, but if MJ was legal, it would be covered as well. She's been off Chemo for almost 9 years now, mostly because of oil. I make a 80% oil and I have never charged over $50 a gram... Well once I did for $75, but that was before I purchased some recapture equipment saving me time and money in supplies.

 

Full disclosure: I plan on opening a dispensary, not because of money, but because I really believe that this can save lives, or at least make them better. there are some that really want to do things right for the right reasons. I don't expect people like Mal to come in, simply because he is all set, and I don't want people like that. But I have a waiting list, and know other CG;'s with waiting lists because they can't find a good CG. a collective dispensary like this would allow us to reach more people with good quality MEDICAL marijuana, and not just shake and brick weed.

I understand what you are saying, trust me. I consider my out of pocket and deductible donezo when the first pharmacy opens on Jan 2nd. Insurance helps but they always seem to prescribe a new drug that has no generics available. Cancer with the standard of care does cost more than cannabis. For sure. I just want the folks that gave up their lives to help others to have a shot in this game. Most of us were not wealthy to start and playing by the rules did not bring us any income that will help demonstrate financial superiority as this new law requires. I don't want to jump into this new system, but it sure as hell would have been nice to get my cuts out into the world. It would be nice to make a few extra hundred from time to time. It'd be nice if I could do that without leaving the cg system. I just don't like it. I don't think this how legislature shoukd treat us.

 

I'd be happy to add another patient, but I have so far only dealt with folks I knew previously. I offer more cbd strains than any dispensary in the state. Take care.

 

Wet

 

Edit: I can't type well and it has been fixed...I think

Edited September 9, 2016 by WET

[CedarSpringsCG]

I understand what you are saying, trust me. I consider my out of pocket and deductible donezo when the first pharmacy opens on Jan 2nd. Insurance helps but they always seem to prescribe a new drug that has no generics available. Cancer with the standard of care does cost more than cannabis. For sure. I just want the folks that gave up their lives to help others to have a shot in this game. Most of us were not wealthy to start and playing by the rules did not bring us any income that will help demonstrate financial superiority as this new law requires. I don't want to jump into this new system, but it sure as hell would have been nice to get my cuts out into the world. It would be nice to make a few extra hundred from time to time. It'd be nice if I could do that without leaving the cg system. I just don't like it. I don't think this how legislature shoukd treat us.

 

I'd be happy to add another patient, but I have so far only dealt with folks I knew previously. I offer more cbd strains than any dispensary in the state. Take care.

 

Wet

 

Edit: I can't type well and it has been fixed...I think

Hey Wet,

It's cool, I reread my post and it was a little on the harsh side, overworked I think...

 

I don't have any money, I am taking out loans and mortgaging my house to make this happen, because I have that ability.  A lot of people don't have that capability.

 

I haven't read all of the changes they made to the dispensary bill, but yeah, if they really want to make it so a dispensary owner can't be a caregiver, I'll call and tell them I can't support it either.  The last version I read didn't have that, just that you couldn't have any drug convictions, and that the 5 roles had to be separate, but you could grow and process, or transport, or test lab. 

 

Anyway, I know it is frustrating that a plant costs so much, mainly because of stupid regulations.  Their seed to sale tracking does absolutely nothing to keep it off the street, yet it will drive costs up for sure.  I mean if I am a grower, how does their seed to sale prove my plants don't average 4 oz like I tell them versus 7 oz which is real?  It doesn't, that leaves 3 oz per plant that isn't in the system being tracked.  Of course this is hypothetical since the seed to sale tracking isn't in place yet...

 

Anyway, it sounds like we are doing different things for the same reason, to help people.  in 2008, I would have told you MJ was recreational only and had no medical benefit...  Today, I have seen people regain their lives, I have watched people who doctors said were already dead from cancer live 5 years near cancer free.  This is why I am going to apply for a license, and if I lose everything in the process, I am OK with that.  The smiles and hugs from the people I help will hopefully provide enough Karma that I will be OK. 

 

Peace man, I do not, and even when I am a dispensary owner, will never support taking away the rights we have today.  Everyone should be able to grow if they want to, and they should be able to work 1 on 1 with a caregiver.  Others who have different needs and want convenience should be able to walk into a store and get variety, consulting, and my plan more than just MJ.  Almost every plant has medicinal benefits, and I cant' wait to start exploring how MJ interacts with Basil, Rosemary, Usnea, and all of the rest of the 1000 herbs my wife just bought.

 

Dang, I can type a book if you give me a chance...  Sorry for the long post, most people won't read to here anyway

Edited September 10, 2016 by CedarSpringsCG

[pergamum362]

Maybe we will cross paths on our journeys cedar.

 

On a seperate note, i met up with some folks who own a couple different warehouses today. Previously we had arrangments, all be it verbal, to get something going if this thing was to take off. Now it seems, these people are hanging on, in hopes of the locations they purchased for pennies on the dollar compared to real market value, that someone is going to come along and offer sums in the million plus for them. Its possible. My dreams may be shattered before they start...time will tell????

[+Malamute]

If you are going commercial, at least admit you are doing it for the money. :-)

[shishka]

Albeit.

[Indigro]

Well, lets not put the cart ahead of the horse here...

- still needs to go back to house and get signed, assuming no addtl changes

- then the 1yr to get things in order before anyone can even apply

- the board needs to get selected, rules created, systems put in place... For everything outlined and assigned in this bill, that is a whole bunch of work to do in one year, a whole bunch

- local municipalities will have to get their laws on the books

- all of that before anything real can be done, such as actually setting up a biz

 

Read it just now, and onerous is the one word that sticks out.

 

Its amazing how little was actually done in the bill... Mostly a bunch of finger pointing and saying, u do this, u do that... How? Well then you over there do that too, and another pointing finger to go along. They want a lot, and i bet the peeps they select to do it will be in way over their heads. Just the tracking requirements alone are nearly impossible to imagine, the depth of info they want collected and at all points of interest, with real time monitoring... The logistics alone are mind boggling. I dont think they thought any of the hows through on this bill. Just cut and paste from other sources. It's long, but hollow.

 

I honestly cant believe the transport biz... Like we are manufacturing weapons grade plutonium, between the tracking and transport. Man, talk about artificially creating a piece of pie out of nothing.

[SFC]

Exactly Indigro. Anybody thinking this is going to be a straight forward path has obviously not been paying attention. Also any of you wanting in on this better be ready to shell out some serious cash upfront.  I can foresee few if any existing dispensaries jumping on board with this, and why would they? 

[Indigro]

I may have to re read that bill but I think it double talks about how caregivers can transfer to a provisioning center than it says you can't.....

I just went through it again, and indeed, it makes clear that the prov centers can only purchase from other licensees... Which means there will be no cg:disp sales. But cg may buy from dispo's... Funny how that works, yeah?

 

Cg's are basically not allowed to participate in this scheme... Must give up the cg status for a license instead, assuming you qualify.

[+Malamute]

Even if things go smoothly as is, it will be about 1 year 8 months till the first joint is sold.

[westmich]

If it took 75% to amend the act, does it take 75% to change it back? Dems are never going to be 75%

 

I don't want to go backwards!  I want a) the Dems to expand these laws and/or b) to get MILegalize on the ballot and passed in 2018 to make this wide open.

[phaquetoo]

 

competition drives prices down, and the consumer's dollar has the most power

When you're no longer the only dealer on the block, 

 

It reads like the prices may go up,  because of the seed to sale, the testing of meds and the cost of liscenses and transport.  There will always be a black market,  leo will always have people to arrest even after the bills are signed, if they get signed.

 

 

competition drives prices down, and the consumer's dollar has the most power

When you're no longer the only dealer on the block, 

Understand you can make your own oil or buy it,   Soon the more dispensaries  the more pot on the market, You people do not understand simple economics 

if the law passes, I have more room to make oil....but it's no guarantee that I'll be around.  ?? YOU cannot make oil now 

 

People are and can make oil now,  If you are an oil or butter maker now why wouldnt you still be after the bills get signed?

 

The only thing I fear is having our pt/cg grow rights taken away!

 

It would be a good thing is c.g/pt's could do farm markets for their overages!  but we know that wont happen!

 

I used to just love the oil, Yes I can eat it but I cant smoke it, I can smoke it but it makes me cough so bad it is no longer worth it to me, With cannabutter I can use it on just about anything,

 

Im thinking alot of people (including me) are going to lose their c.g's,  I know my c.g is in it for the money or he wouldnt be dumping it at farm markets and despensary's,  I most likly will lose my c.g, even though he does get rid of overages, he still get electric shut off notices every month, he has been 2 months behind since the law began, and not just the electric bill, but all of his bills are behind,,,,,,,,All I want is to still be able to at least grow my own as a pt, either way I will not be getting my meds from a despense!

 

This is not to you cristinew.............ins will not pay for your mm, not untill it is being prescribed via a prescription from your dr. and these new laws have nothing to do with pharmacy's and rx's!

 

I dont consider myself a dem or rep, but I am going to have to be one or the other come this Nov!  unless of course I vote green party or libertarian!

 

I dont think anything would be any diff if the senate or house was all dem or rep,  We would still be getting the same crap from all of the crooked politcians!

 

I have 2 reasons why I dont want to be a dem or rep,,,,,,#1 Hillary,,,,,#2 Trump!

 

Peace

[CedarSpringsCG]

ok, so I went ahead and read this, and now I agree it is crap...  You can't be a grower and a CG?  but you have to have 2 years of CG experience to do it?  So you have to be a CG for 2 years, then tell all of your patients to screw off, and you can start growing...  that's crap.  And to have to use a secure transport, and even a CG driving to a PT has to have a transport manifest.

 

And yep, I thought we were making it easier for patients, but now we create a 1.5 year no dispensaries at all while we remove all of the CG's from the market.

 

Mal, my primary goal isn't the money.  But if I can't make a living off of it, then there is no capability for me to help more people.  So money is part of the equation of course, but do I ever expect to be filthy rich off of it?  No. 

 

Unfortunately reading the bills you are either doing it for money or not in the game.  THis is going to force a lot of people back underground for at least 2 years.

 

 

This is not to you cristinew.............ins will not pay for your mm, not untill it is being prescribed via a prescription from your dr. and these new laws have nothing to do with pharmacy's and rx's!

Yeah, which won't happen until it is legal.  It won't have to come from a pharmacy, insurance pays for massage as long as a Dr orders it, it can be the same with this...

 

Anyway, getting my letters ready to email to my representatives to tell them how I feel.  Unfortunately too late most likely.

 

Does anyone know if this leaves section 8 intact?  I wonder because they very specifically spell out transfers only to people connected through the registry, and this is just after Overholt/Bylsma where the CoA said you didn't need to register at all.  Are they changing that so you have to or have no defense?

[mibrains]

Tbh. Im just disappointed in the way the funds will be distributed. Didnt they put a section in there saying the balance will not move over to the general fund? Leo will continue to not have to tackle the real criminals via kickbacks from this program,the mmma, and people will still be subject to siezure laws.

I wonder how many commercial enterprise will pop up year one? How many will use this to come above board and still funnel product to the black market? Full disclosure, i intend to apply for a class a license.

As I understand it the break down of tax distribution is 30% to the township of operation, 40% to county of operation, 5% local county sheriff, and 25% to the state general fund.

 

If those numbers end up being accurate then 75% of the 3% sin tax will stay local.

 

Also as I understand it the 3% tax gets charged each time the cannabis moves from one tier to the next so in the end it will be 6% state sales tax plus 3% sin tax 5 times (each time it changes hands from grower to tester to blah blah blah) before a consumer touches the product.

 

Can you say $30 a gram resale?

 

Ouch...

 

I want to be a grower....i want 1500 plants....

 

I could never afford it under this system.

 

Bummer.

 

That's probably the way it's been devised from the get go.

[mibrains]

Are you sure it's a law enforcement database and not the regulatory agency that will be monitoring the data from seed to sale?

[mibrains]

I did read they will be tracking every sale and it will be connected to the patient.

 

However I read it as a oversight type of tracking not necessarily a law enforcement one...that being said I could see how law enforcement would most likely end up with access to the database.

[Wild Bill]

It's my understanding that the transport clause was paid for by Matty Moroun so his Central Transport company will receive the armored car contracts.

 

Oh boy! Taxed and regulated, just the way we dreamed it would be! 

 

BTW, a friend of mine who has been working on a large commercial grow in Washington just moved back here to grow.

 

I expressed my concern for his legal well being but he said he wasn't worried because he had his commercial connections and they were all set to move to Michigan and get their operation up and running here.

 

[CedarSpringsCG]

No, they have left that path explicitly open. In addition, they have created asymmetric protections again, this time for dispensaries to buy from patients and caregivers. Bizarre.

So a dispensary can buy from anyone, but a CG or PT can't sell it to them?  That's stupid...

 

AS far as taxing goes, I don't read it that it gets taxed at each transfer.  It is only taxed on the gross receipts from dispensaries, so no triple tax... We would have to have a Michigan Green tea party if they wanted to tax us 3 times.  I could be wrong, but I think it is just gross receipts. 

 

I am still in awe that we are unable to be a grower and a caregiver, but you have to have 2 years CG experience...  That's just beyond stupid.

[mibrains]

If you stop to think about it....it only makes sense that you cannot participate in both programs.

 

As a caregiver you could only supply cannabis to your five patients.

 

As a grower you can only supply dispensaries.

 

How could the state ensure you don't blur those lines?

 

The grower is watched on live video feeds and every gram is tracked from seed to sale...a caregiver is unregulated...what's to stop them from moving products between one venue or the other? Just the honesty system and quite frankly that would not be good enough to satisfy the naysayers...

 

Water and oil...

 

They can't mix.