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Marijuana 'clones,' Or Cuttings, Count As Plants Under Medical Marijuana Law


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http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2016/08/marijuana_clones_or_cuttings_c.html

 

Marijuana 'clones,' or cuttings, count as plants under medical marijuana law

 

on August 17, 2016 at 11:06 AM, updated August 17, 2016 at 11:07 AM

 

GRAND RAPIDS, MI – The state Court of Appeals says "cloned" marijuana plants count against the number of plants a medical marijuana caregiver can legally possess.

 

The clones, or cuttings from a mature plant, were at issue in a Grand Rapids case after police found 21 marijuana plants and 22 clones in a grow room.

 

The ruling is the first in Michigan to determine what constitutes a marijuana plant, a Court of Appeals panel said.

Lorenzo Enrique Ventura, as a medical marijuana caregiver and patient, was allowed to possess up to 24 plants.

 

He was convicted in a bench trial of possession with intent to deliver marijuana and manufacturing marijuana. He was sentenced to two years on probation and ordered to perform 120 hours of community service.

 

The defense argued that the cuttings were only leaves, not independent plants.

 

The issue before the court: "(W)e must determine at what point does a cutting from a mature marijuana plant that is placed in 'grow material' become a 'plant' itself that may be separately counted as a plant for purposes of determining how many plants defendant had in his possession."

 

The appeals panel said the medical marijuana law did not provide a definition of "plant," and there are no other published opinions in Michigan that interpret the word.

 

The panel said that the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals in Cincinnati, in determining what constitutes a plant for purposes of sentencing guidelines, determined that a cutting is a plant if it has "readily observable evidence of root formation."

 

The panel affirmed Kent County Circuit Judge Donald Johnston's determination at trial that Ventura possessed 43 plants.

 

"Probably the key ingredients in any plant would be some leaf material, some kind of stem, and some sort of root material. ... And it seems to me once you have those components in place, you have a plant," Johnston said in his ruling.

 

He said clones that shriveled up and died did not count.

 

"So it seems to me the 22 so-called clones that had root structures and leaves and are green and are alive constitute plants. They're not very big plants and they're not mature plants, but the statute doesn't address that. It just says plants."

 

A police officer testified that some of the clones, pulled from grow material, had hair-like fibers growing from the main root, court documents said.

 

Court of Appeals judges David Sawyer, Christopher Murray and Patrick Meter signed the opinion.

 

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OK, so here's my question.  If you grow 3 clones of a strain in separate 1 gal containers,

but then plant them together in a single 10 gallon pot, is this one "plant" or three?

 

If I put this in a tent next to a 10 gallon pot with only one clone, each will grow and

create roughly the same canopy, since they are limited mostly by light space.  Each

would seem to me to represent one "plant".

 

Does anyone know what the actual legal interpretation has been here?

Do they count stems or containers?

 

-iwombat

Edited by iwombat
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In a single 10 gallon pot, the roots of all three would shortly combine into a single root tangle.

 

If you are counting roots, you would have to count just "one" in this pot.  Would they count the

number of stems in a pot instead?

Seems like it would up to the PA to prove three plants instead of one. Obviously it's three plants. But will a PA go to the trouble of trying to prove 3? But why even bother with such a project? Just grow bigger plants.

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In a single 10 gallon pot, the roots of all three would shortly combine into a single root tangle.

 

If you are counting roots, you would have to count just "one" in this pot. Would they count the

number of stems in a pot instead?

So what your saying is just do a big grow bed put 100 plants in there let the roots and canopy grow together then you only have one plant....
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So you are saying they count the number of stems?  Ug.

 

In certain other medical states, they avoid this whole muddled discussion by giving medical users a canopy size.

It was 10' x 10' in Santa Cruz.   You could add up the floor footprint of your grow tents or outdoor spaces and

just grow in there without regard to how many shoots you have rooting.

 

In others, they count the number of plants so outdoor growers play games like this:

 

bushescanna

 
624 ounces?  Yea, but it was one plant officer!
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those are 10 jade plants

 

source: I have a jade plant, I've transplanted jade plants, they are separate plants, jade is not a multi stalk plant, neither is cannabis.

 

to answer your question further, after watching forensic files, in one case the pa asked a university to get the dna from tree seeds in order to prove that some fallen tree seeds in a truck came from a specific tree that was near the murder.

 

 

so probably it would be possible to dna test cannabis. or just run the gcms and tell that the cannabinoid profiles were different.

 

I'd you want you run multiple strains just graft them together onto one plant.

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It is taking me a while to adjust to Michigan thinking, and it's sad.

 

Medically cultivating for many years in California, I witnessed up-front law enforcement that saw little value

in clogging the courts with small home growers.  They have walked through my garden while surveying a

fire and didn't give it a care.  If someone did come to investigate, and you were slightly over your plant count,

or whatever, they would just take it or tell you to get rid of it.  There were busts now and then, but you usually

discovered there was Meth or gangs involved.  There is no prohibition to smoking pot in the open, such as

at a park, as long as smoking cigarettes is permitted.

 

In Michigan, by contrast, it seems like law enforcement still looks at small time violators as valid 'busts',

helping rid the community of undesirables.

 

Ca prop 215 was passed in 1996, so they've had 20 years for the community to un-demonize medical

users and cultivate cops + families as 'underground' patients.  MMMP passed in 2008.  Therefore,

sometime between now and 2028 we can expect Michigan law enforcement to evolve.

 

Unless we manage to rip their oppressive laws out from under them early, that is...

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OK, so here's my question.  If you grow 3 clones of a strain in separate 1 gal containers,

but then plant them together in a single 10 gallon pot, is this one "plant" or three?

 

If I put this in a tent next to a 10 gallon pot with only one clone, each will grow and

create roughly the same canopy, since they are limited mostly by light space.  Each

would seem to me to represent one "plant".

 

Does anyone know what the actual legal interpretation has been here?

Do they count stems or containers?

 

-iwombat

I realy dont know why you would want 21 plants and 22 clones going for?  I mean if it is just you and one pt why wouldnt you have like 3 in budd maybe 4 or 5 but how ya truly gonna follow the weight law?

 

You could have like 5 in budd, 10 in veg and it leaves ya room for 7 clones,  You can change the amount of plants in each stage to suit your needs!

 

Im no master grower, but I usualy get 100 to 99% clones that live,  so basicly if you know how to clone you can pretty much be assured they are little plants (unless they shrivel and die which usualy happens pretty quick) and you are going to be over your limit!

 

unless some one is trying to earn a living behind the mask of being a c.g/pt there is no reason to have almost double the amount of plants you are allowed,  and 21 plants is going to be a whole lot more than what the weight limit is allowed, I get 1 plant from my c.g,  I go over to the grow, he gives me a choice of a few dif plants, I pick it he cuts it off at the dirt, we put it in a large plastic bag and I take it and do the triming, drying and curing myself, I have never got less than 3 oz's of budd, my last one had 7 zips of just the big cola's, not alot of leaf and around 4 zips of popcorn buddz and schit you just wouldnt trim (cannabutter ingredients!) so basicly just 1 plant put me and c.g over our weight allowance, lol!

 

Untill it is completely legal and even after that, leo is gonna always have people that find a way to break the law.  Because some people just are either stupid, ignorant or dont give a phaq!

 

Peace

 

p.s of course it would be 3 plants, even if they are in the same pot bawahahahahahahahaha! :lolu:

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It is taking me a while to adjust to Michigan thinking, and it's sad.

 

Medically cultivating for many years in California, I witnessed up-front law enforcement that saw little value

in clogging the courts with small home growers.  They have walked through my garden while surveying a

fire and didn't give it a care.  If someone did come to investigate, and you were slightly over your plant count,

or whatever, they would just take it or tell you to get rid of it.  There were busts now and then, but you usually

discovered there was Meth or gangs involved.  There is no prohibition to smoking pot in the open, such as

at a park, as long as smoking cigarettes is permitted.

 

In Michigan, by contrast, it seems like law enforcement still looks at small time violators as valid 'busts',

helping rid the community of undesirables.

 

Ca prop 215 was passed in 1996, so they've had 20 years for the community to un-demonize medical

users and cultivate cops + families as 'underground' patients.  MMMP passed in 2008.  Therefore,

sometime between now and 2028 we can expect Michigan law enforcement to evolve.

 

Unless we manage to rip their oppressive laws out from under them early, that is...

California and Michigan two way different  enviroments Cali law enforcement are use to seeing cannabis and are more likely to cut you some slack Oakland county and a few other areas of the state they are chomping at the bit to charge you with anything they can because they do not believe in medical cannabis and want it abolished.

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