Will Caregivers Still Be Needed

[Willy]

Dude you obviously never had to live on disability. what a crock of sheit.. Asking for free meds is begging to meet a crappy caregiver. So you likely have never grown your own. and have no idea what it entails. you sound like such a newbie.. dude get you shiet together and quit pointing fingers in something you obviously know little or nothing of.

. 

AND BY THE WAY, IF IT WAS IN MY POWER.. I'D BAN YOUR AZZZ AND I HAVE NEVER SUPPORTED BANNING,, BUT FOR YOU I'D MAKE AN EXCEPTION!!!

Edited September 25, 2016 by Willy

[t-pain]

37,000 current registered caregivers in michigan, an all time high number.

 

http://wlns.com/2016/09/15/michigan-house-passes-medical-marijuana-laws-and-regulations/

 

Approximately 211,000 patients registered with the state obtain their marijuana from 37,000 designated caregivers grow or their own under the current law.

 

(if anyone cares, i keep the history of the patient numbers since the program started, here on this blog post, http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/blog/626/entry-1167-michigan-medical-marihuana-registered-patient-counts-over-the-years/ )

[+Malamute]

Caregiver by year:

 

FY 2015: 34,269

FY 2014: 22,966

FY 2013: 27,046  <-- 2 year cards start, McQueen Decision, Crappy Cgs falling away

FY 2012: 50,188

FY 2011: 45,289

FY 2010: 21, 730

 

Ya  have to remember the 2 year card issue with the numbers the last couple years. It throws it off.

[t-pain]

lara really was playing with the numbers hard. they figured they could hide the number of patients and pretend mmma didnt exist.

 

fun question, has LARA registered more active MMMA patients and caregivers than active dentists, barbers, nurses, pharmacists, drs etc , combined ?

 

200,000 patients is 2% of michigans' entire population. i dont think there are more pharmacists and drs than that...

[+Malamute]

The other problem is what was the average number of patients per CG.

 

 I wish they would show how many Cg's have one patient, two patient etc.

[Restorium2]

This has been my personal experience over the last 7 years.  Every patient I came across looking for a CG had one bad experience after the other.  And much of that was before there were dispensary options on this side of the state.  I believe that is why the CG market has shrunk down to what it is; patients either grow for themselves or know patients who do.  For example: there are about 4,000 patients in Muskegon County and 40 caregivers.  That's a 100 to 1 ratio, yet, you'll be darn luck to find a patient especially one willing to sign over the plants, for free.

 

As I pointed out earlier, you're splitting hairs on the law.  I am more concerned with what is right, moral, and fair versus might currently be legal.  If you complain about others not paying their fair share of taxes but then hide your own earnings - you're a hypocrite POS.  If you claim you can no longer work and support yourself, take the disability benefits, and then spend 20 to 40 hours a week growing, selling, and otherwise supporting your home based business - you're a hypocrite POS.

You wouldn't need to hide anything. You wouldn't make the minimum to even file taxes. 

 

Working while on SS is encouraged for very good reasons. 

 

POS? Really? Where does all that anger come from? 

[westmich]

Muskegon:

Patients: 3,991

Caregivers: 683

 

Most caregivers are just patients. Rip on caregivers, you are only ripping on patients, and family members of patients, and close family friends of those  patients for the most part.

 

Your stated facts are completely wrong as well as your opinion.

 

My caregiver number was off apologies.  41 is the rank of patients per 100,000.

[westmich]

Dude you obviously never had to live on disability. what a crock of sheit.. Asking for free meds is begging to meet a crappy caregiver. So you likely have never grown your own. and have no idea what it entails. you sound like such a newbie.. dude get you shiet together and quit pointing fingers in something you obviously know little or nothing of.

. 

AND BY THE WAY, IF IT WAS IN MY POWER.. I'D BAN YOUR AZZZ AND I HAVE NEVER SUPPORTED BANNING,, BUT FOR YOU I'D MAKE AN EXCEPTION!!!

 

I've been a patient and caregiver and member of this site since 2009.  I have personally helped a couple dozen patients and the amount I've sent through the dispensaries has helped at least 100 more.  I've never made a killing off of it and my renewed effort of getting into the caregiver business only to have it pulled out from under me has left me about $6,000 grand in the hole.  I have no regrets of low prices, though.

 

Statistically speaking, I don't the know what the make up of caregivers overall is.  I'd like to think I am one of the good guys.  I have heard so, so many horror stories from patients, patients that could not afford to be ripped off or dragged through the dirt the way they were.  I have also met many fellow caregivers on disability who could clearly provide a living for themselves.  Like helping one guy in his outdoor garden at night because he was pretty sure the neighbors called on him when he re-roofed his house.

[westmich]

You wouldn't need to hide anything. You wouldn't make the minimum to even file taxes. 

 

Working while on SS is encouraged for very good reasons. 

 

POS? Really? Where does all that anger come from? 

 

My anger is directed solely at those who would rip off patients and/or SSI.

 

I also had a friend (patient) diagnosed with MS at a relatively young age.  As if that wasn't bad enough, he had to fight SSI and hire a lawyer before he got his first check several years later.  Why, you might ask, is so hard to get SSI?

[Highlander]

Myself, I have no problem with anyone who doesn't claim income for legitimate sale of MMJ. I'm not a big dispensary fan, but I don't care if they don't pay income tax either.

 

Our entire federal enforcement of MMJ is whacked for the following reasons:

 

1. MJ is not recognized as having any medical value, despite a federal cannabis patent, a near majority of states recognizing MJ as medicine, and the evidence generated in the U.S. and abroad.

2. Federal banking laws prevent most banks from dealing with MMJ businesses. This puts people at risk who are forced to deal in cash. (Thieves know that significant amounts of cash leave dispensaries probably daily.)

3. The IRS will not allow a state legal MJ business to claim expenses against income.

 

Growers (and others) who aren't paying income tax have lower expenses than they otherwise would. Growing is a competitive endeavor. This leads to lower prices to the patient.

[pergamum362]

Would just like to point out, that colorados mm program is taxed at 2.9 percent plus any local taxes, but they allow an unlimited number of patients to register to a CAREGIVER, forming "collectives", while there recreational market is taxed around 29 percent....

[phaquetoo]

i bet he means those cg's that pimp patients for their count only to sell off the remainder of what that patient doesnt need= (example) cg business model

That resembles my c.g lol!  yea my business deal may be over, or he is gonna find another way to get rid of it,,,,,man he has alot of cash into it to quit,,,he may try to be a lower tier grower, which will still leave me out if he follows the rule of law,,seed to sale,,,,,,bawahahahahahahahahaha!   I dont think I have anything to worry about!

 

Peace

[phaquetoo]

Because that model is based on selling overages to your local dispensary.  They will no longer be buying from caregivers and patients.

which model the legal or ilegal model?  None of it was every legal, no one is losing anything, how can you lose something you never had!

 

Peace

[Restorium2]

Dispensaries never followed any rules. So why would they start now? It's still going to depend on the investigations. If a dispensary is being investigated it will go down. This just gave the cops another tool for their investigations. To make it a little easier for them, less man hours to bring them down. And who ever they buy from will be going down too. Just like always. 

[phaquetoo]

#PotMeetKettle

 

Seriously, you are splitting hairs on legality?  I take it you never experienced marijuana until you got your license in 2009?

 

The dispensaries I worked with all had the approval of local elected leaders, the sheriff, and the community (that's not to say they were technically legal at the state level and certainly not at the federal level).  Patients got the ability to walk into a clean, safe atmosphere and pick from two to three dozens strains at any one time.  The patients were never charged more than $10 a gram and less if they bought in bulk.  They could pay even less (in some rare cases) going directly with a CG, but had had multiple bad experiences with CGs and preferred using the dispensary.

 

If I were a patient looking for a CG and came across the typical basement grower living on disability making extra money, but not claiming it to the IRS - I would expect free ounce as well.

Im a pt on disability!  does that mean I cant tend to a garden?

 

The c.g pt system up and running is not a make money business, it is a recoup cost biz, you can recoup electricity, nutes, medium, time spent, it is all cash, the state says it is a cash biz, no taxes to file if you are a c.g taking care of pt's and yourself!

 

people on ssdi dont exactly have much money, usualy they are in debt and cant even afford pay t.v!

 

I paid into ss and I will collect it untill I drain it dry!  and Im phaqing proud of it and I deserve it!  and I can grow some plants in my basement and not hurt myself to much!

 

This has been my personal experience over the last 7 years.  Every patient I came across looking for a CG had one bad experience after the other.  And much of that was before there were dispensary options on this side of the state.  I believe that is why the CG market has shrunk down to what it is; patients either grow for themselves or know patients who do.  For example: there are about 4,000 patients in Muskegon County and 40 caregivers.  That's a 100 to 1 ratio, yet, you'll be darn luck to find a patient especially one willing to sign over the plants, for free.

 

As I pointed out earlier, you're splitting hairs on the law.  I am more concerned with what is right, moral, and fair versus might currently be legal.  If you complain about others not paying their fair share of taxes but then hide your own earnings - you're a hypocrite POS.  If you claim you can no longer work and support yourself, take the disability benefits, and then spend 20 to 40 hours a week growing, selling, and otherwise supporting your home based business - you're a hypocrite POS.

Your a POS!

 

I dont have to file taxes butt head, people who are on ssdi dont file taxes, I pay property taxes and sales taxes just like every one else,

 

The system thru lara is not set up for c.g's to make money, it is set up for them to recoup their money and time spent growing your fine meds!

 

My anger is directed solely at those who would rip off patients and/or SSI.

 

I also had a friend (patient) diagnosed with MS at a relatively young age.  As if that wasn't bad enough, he had to fight SSI and hire a lawyer before he got his first check several years later.  Why, you might ask, is so hard to get SSI?

It took my 8 yrs and 2 seperate filings to get ssdi,  I am not a quitter,  when I first applied I was 38 yrs old, white and male, unfortunatly they make people who are like me fight harder than any one else, male , female, etc,

 

I hired an attny the 1st time thru, went thru all appeals, I imediatly hired a different attny, he filled out my 2nd app to collect ssdi, 8 yrs later, 8 yrs more in debt, 8yrs of being a burden on my family and friends (Thank you so much to my Family and friends during that horrible time in my life) Im not into banning people from this site, but you just knocked probably 3/4's of this site by calling people who collect ssi POS!

 

I say vacation time, coming from me, lol, I will probably be joining you or beating you to vacation, because if I have to read more of your b.s im prob gonna unload on your arse!

 

go find a place where people like you hang, your in the wrong place!

 

 

I was self employed most of my adult life, I paid my taxes, I paid self employment tax (ssi) now that I need it im sure glad im finaly getting it, I had clinical proof from day 1 and should not have had to fight for it as long as I did, most people would quit, not me, I deserve it and I am not a quitter!

 

Peace

[trichcycler]

I hope there is a misunderstanding westmi. "typical basement grower" may be describing the bulk of us posters. I really dont think there are many of us here posting that sell to a dispensary, its not worth it in the long run I've seen. I understand the cash run but the growers I know here are not in it for that. while it might seem like it to some we know that any "extra" cash on hand will be absorbed back into the garden eventually. Ac units fail, those cost me near 500 bucks!, dehumidifiers, bulbs, all kinds of stuff happens. Patients get jammed and dont take deliveries as scheduled, on and on. At first i thought it was going to be legal to sell off overages, and even sell to anyone with a card, but only able to grow for five patients. I thought they were concerned with making sure you grew under 76 plants and only sold to "connected", as in with a lara issued card" patient. This was a benny to to me I thought, like so many others. I would grow anyways even if only for myself, but this would allow me to further my interest in hobby farming and organic food production. It didnt work out like that I found. A quick call to an attorney or two and the facts were explained to me, I got it. Its not worth a few hundies here and there for me to provide to anyone else but my card named patients.

 

as far as taxes.....anyone telling you to pay taxes on your caregiver proceeds, a ridiculous notion imo....should consider the cost of preparation will be more than any benefit you may gain from small money earned to big money spent, now you gonna claim losses quarterly forever...good luck with that// and lying to the irs about the ocurse of your income is fraud. the irs wont accept income gained from the proceeds of federally illegal drug sales, nor will it allow you to "write off" light bulbs to produce them. I could be wrong, I'm not a tax attorney, or a commercial grower, and lara told me my proceeds are not to be considered income. surprised me of course, but I abide by the letter of the law, mostly.

I encourage those on disability to source other forms of non reported income, as much as they can. Spending a lifetime working and paying into a corrupt system believing you're going to be taken care of if you should fall ill or retire only to be swindled out of both.......A swell choice to make before eating cat food for dinner. I know of family members that collect their dis. ins, seen their check, and saw the reality.

 

its not those collecting welfare, or disability checks , or moms using wic coupons that are "taxing" us an dour economy, thats a lie told so you feel the way you do, and vote to grind these horrible sick and disabled scammers up. Its a lie, sure, some are corrupt, blame them? I used to, not any longer though with a better understanding. Its a shell game, keeps you from seeing where the ball really is. dont play, make some more money any legal way you can, life's short, painful, and needing often.

 

peace

Edited September 26, 2016 by trichcycler

[westmich]

I apologize if my comments offended anyone.  It was not meant as a blanket attack on folks on disability, especially patients.  It was aimed squarely at those abusing the system and abusing patients.

 

This thread went way off track for me after trying to honestly answer a question.  I explained my take on the 'business' model as it exists as best as I understand it.  This was not in relation to people caring for sick loved ones.  For compensating patients for the value of their license, I was called a pimp.  A f#cking pimp!  I was compared to someone who abuses women and enslaves children for a living.  I guess I should have considered the source and just walked away.

[Restorium2]

I apologize if my comments offended anyone.  It was not meant as a blanket attack on folks on disability, especially patients.  It was aimed squarely at those abusing the system and abusing patients.

 

This thread went way off track for me after trying to honestly answer a question.  I explained my take on the 'business' model as it exists as best as I understand it.  This was not in relation to people caring for sick loved ones.  For compensating patients for the value of their license, I was called a pimp.  A f#cking pimp!  I was compared to someone who abuses women and enslaves children for a living.  I guess I should have considered the source and just walked away.

No one called you anything. Pimping was used as a verb, not a noun. Pretending to be the victim isn't helping you crawl out from under your terrible attacks on the unfortunate. 

[Restorium2]

i bet he means those cg's that pimp patients for their count only to sell off the remainder of what that patient doesnt need= (example) cg business model

This is where the pimp started. 

[Restorium2]

I didn't like the wording either when I read it the first time. But if the shoe doesn't fit why wear it?

[+Malamute]

You have to pay taxes on earned income. Whether garnered legally or illegally.

 

If it is under a certain amount, no need to file.

 

Also, SSI and SSDI are two completely different programs.

[trichcycler]

You have to pay taxes on earned income. Whether garnered legally or illegally.

 

If it is under a certain amount, no need to file.

 

Also, SSI and SSDI are two completely different programs.

 

yep, so lara will release the cg's info the irs, show how many patients they've served over the years, assess a standard earning level, and arrest every cg in the state for tax evasion, all at once, nice.  lets get ready to see who saves receipts of their (federally)ill gotten gains

[Restorium2]

The reason it's so hard to qualify for SSD is so that nosy people will not be watching their every move to see if they actually are not qualified. Like they watch for someone on disability tending a small garden. Oh no, they shouldn't be able to do that ...... Mind your own business.... They already were put through the wringer to qualify. Let them have a life. 

[+Malamute]

yep, so lara will release the cg's info the irs, show how many patients they've served over the years, assess a standard earning level, and arrest every cg in the state for tax evasion, all at once, nice.  lets get ready to see who saves receipts of their (federally)ill gotten gains

 

 

 

Not going to happen.

 

 It just goes under "other income".  Just like any money you bring in right?  Everyone reports the 20 bucks cash ya made mowing ayard right or the 10 bucks someone gives for gas to give them a ride? That is income too aye.

[Restorium2]

yep, so lara will release the cg's info the irs, show how many patients they've served over the years, assess a standard earning level, and arrest every cg in the state for tax evasion, all at once, nice.  lets get ready to see who saves receipts of their (federally)ill gotten gains

There is no earning level. We can't sell willy nilly all over the place like a ruleless dispensary. We can collect from 5 sick folks then deduct our expenses off of that. This is reality, not imaginary now. No one following the rules is making much at all.