Will Caregivers Still Be Needed

[beourbud]

Right on imiubu

 

No one buying wholesale would accept tumble weed.

 

Dispensaries tumble weed to increase profit

 

Greedy bass turds

 

Pis on anyone throwing shade on Patients or Caregivers......literally if you can muster the stream

Edited September 27, 2016 by beourbud

[t-pain]

tumble weed, thats hilarious

[imiubu]

haha @ t-pain.  It is a funny term, I agree.

The results are less than humorous though 

 

If tumble weed has been present from the few stores I've been to...

then I speculate that it is more the norm than the exception.

 

 

People... if you must shop retail, take your magnifying glass and call them out when you find the dreaded tumble weed!

[CedarSpringsCG]

Most patients and caregivers could give a holy hell less if dispensaries exist.  The problems lie elsewhere.  At what cost? At what harm? etc.

I don't know about most Mal...  I have 2 PT's that prefer dispensaries, but have issues with them getting raided, closing, quality issues, etc.

 

There's a place by me (SW MI/GR Area) that has magnifying cases so you can see the trich's without a loupe on you, and don't just stick the whole jar in your face when you ask to smell it.  Also, it is more of a CG experience, they sit with you and discuss it, every time.  This is what I think a true medical dispensary would be like, not a retail store where you pick from a rack, pay and go.  Instead it should be like a clinic, where you discuss what's there, what you need help with, and they take the time to ask what your last experience was.

 

The issue to me is greed.  I hear a lot of dispensaries in the area will reuse tests from other growers instead of testing each time.  I'd rather them say "It's not tested yet" than give me a lie.  I know the new bill, it will all be tested, but currently we aren't operating under these laws yet.

[+Malamute]

I am just going by experiences in other states.  The percentages are even lower in many.  And yes that is a lot of people still. Even if 1/3rd use a dispensary regularly. that is 75,000 people.

 

 But it is still the minority, as it is in any state. Except like new York and Illinois.

[Willy]

They prefer dispensaries except for raids, closing, and poor quality? On what basis do they prefer dispensaries, then? Are you sure they just don't like you?

lol  ouch!

[+Malamute]

I don't know about most Mal...  I have 2 PT's that prefer dispensaries, but have issues with them getting raided, closing, quality issues, etc.

 

 

They prefer dispensaries except for raids, closing, and poor quality? On what basis do they prefer dispensaries, then? Are you sure they just don't like you?

 

 

 

[CedarSpringsCG]

They prefer dispensaries except for raids, closing, and poor quality? On what basis do they prefer dispensaries, then? Are you sure they just don't like you?

LOL.  Well, they like the convenience, and the idea of a dispensary, and at least one doesn't mind the extra expense... 

 

As far as liking me, I have a waiting list.  And they keep coming back. 

 

If they didn't like me, then there is a huge problem in the CG/PT program, as PT's are unable to find good quality CG's.  To me, this is really the problem and has been for a while.  And what happens when your CG gets infested and has to tear down everything (as opposed to using pesticides, which in my opinion isn't an option).  The PT NEEDS their medication for quality of life, and shouldn't be restricted because a bug flew through a fan.  Sometimes they just need a week or 2 until harvest (for PT growers).  I think Dispensaries are useful for that stopgap, and that's where they should be.

 

And this is really the problem in my eyes.  If good CG's could pick up 20-30 PT's, maybe less, they could make a living off it, and reasonably assist that many people.  I have picked up more than 1 PT that showed me what their last CG was providing, and I have on one occasion refused to try it.  It was the worst looking, worst smelling bud I've seen since mexi brick weed 20 years ago.  Can't really even call it bud, it was cannabis material that they wanted to smoke, but it wasn't bud.

 

So many of us, especially growers, don't realize the pains that some of these patients go through to get meds.  Dispensaries are one solution, many of us don't like, but some do, expanding the CG ability to get PT's, that's another solution, but the state has no way of regulating or making money on that, so good luck... 

 

I like dispensaries, it should be obvious.  But I also like the PT/CG system and would rather see it expanded.  I've discussed this on this board before, and some, I'd call them greedy, but I won't name them, say "Free market" will make sure bad CG's go away.  I've also talked to patients who have no option to grow, don't know any growers, and can't seem to find a semi-decent CG, so here regulation is keeping the bad CG's in the system.  There is no free market here, and that is allowing bad CG's to thrive.

 

Anyway, long enough post. 

[Restorium2]

 There is no free market here, and that is allowing bad CG's to thrive.

 

How does a bad caregiver thrive? Can you describe it? Seems to me if they were bad they would just be ignored. That's how it's always been. All hat no cattle only lasts a short time.

[Willy]

Patients: 3,991

Caregivers: 683

 

3991 /683 = 5.88888  

 

Seems to me, a pretty fair dispersion of patients vs caregivers. They can 't be locking up the market, i see a pretty solid free market scenario there. I believe there would be less caregiver to patient ratio's if the service lacked in too many ways. wouldn't the patients find alternate sources, and like it was said most patients do know someone they can get their meds from. Not always with the long term dependability but  with enough ability  to skew the numbers. these numbers work out exactly as I would expect them too.

 

Its more likely to me that these patients with bad experiences, developed that attitude 

 

The biggest complaint I hear is that dependability and availability is lacking. There old caregiver was always out when they needed meds, and that the quality was lacking. either cured was non existent. Or they felt that they got the bottom of the barrel of meds. Thinking that the best was going somewhere else but not to them..   could it be that the cg they chose wasn't the best when it came to growing so maybe  CG's were learning on the patients dime.  

[CedarSpringsCG]

I talked to a gentlemen today who is growing his own, not because he wants to, but because he can't find a decent grower.  He spent months looking and finally did it himself.  I say good for him, but what if he wasn't capable?  I meet people all the time who are in apartments and disabled, can't grow.

 

My experience may be different than yours, but at least 4 of my patients felt stuck with bad caregivers for a long time until they met me.  But I am going with the literally dozens of patients I have met that had a CG, who didn't do their job, didn't care about quality, and these PTs had no resources to find a good CG.  I have a PT from this very site who couldn't find a decent CG in her area.  She's been with me for over 4 years now.

 

These crap growers stay full 100% of the time, mostly with lies and what not of great meds, free meds, and first month, maybe they get it, then after that quality and consistency decline.  If you want to know how easy it is to get a PT, put up a craigslist post with a picture of a really nice nugget and then put in looking for patient, 1 free oz per month, $200 after that.  You will get flooded with requests, some just want to "sample" but a lot will be looking because their current situation isn't good for them.

 

If I am so wrong, then why are the dispensaries thriving?  If all of the CG's out there are amazing and give good service, then why is there even a market for hundreds of  dispensaries?  If the CG's were so amazing, why aren't they putting all Dispensaries out of business?  The answer is pretty obvious if you open your eyes.

 

Restorium, Bad CG's do well because they sign someone up, promise great meds for free, then don't produce.  They sell it all blackmarket, claim that "something went wrong" with the grow, and it will only be a little while, then when the patient FINALLY gets fed up and leaves 6 months later, they just pick up a new patient from craigslist, because there are literally thousands of PTs out there with a card with no idea where to go or what to do.

 

I spoke to a woman last week, going to get her card, had no idea what to do, didn't even understand what a caregiver was.  Another woman a week before asked me how she was supposed to find any, and asked if she should just drive out to a shady area and ask people at street corners.  I mean it is seriously that bad for some people.

 

Yes, you can argue that this isn't the case. but I can show you where these people are lining up.  You can argue that if they just open their eyes and look around there are tons of patient advocacy places to help.  But if you aren't in the scene, a lot of these resources are hidden from you.

 

Anyway, if you can't see how a Bad CG, with no morals can thrive in a situation like this, then there is nothing I can do to help you.  But maybe you should talk to some people, not people you know, just random people.  Go to a dispensary, and chat with a few people, no need to sign up or buy, just get into a conversation with the PTs.  It is really eye opening.  I found a "smoking" group where it's just a bunch of PTs and CGs who get together and chat once a week.  It has really enlightened me.

 

Willy: I think your logic is flawed.  Just because you have a 5.88 ratio, doesn't mean that 3000 of the 3900 patients you listed aren't happy and just feel stuck because they don't know of any other options.  The more random people I speak to about this, the clearer it becomes.

[Willy]

Willy: I think your logic is flawed.  Just because you have a 5.88 ratio, doesn't mean that 3000 of the 3900 patients you listed aren't happy and just feel stuck because they don't know of any other options.  The more random people I speak to about this, the clearer it becomes.

 

It also doesn't mean that 3000 of them are unhappy.  As far as i know your a decent cg, as most of the others I personally know are... I know your position on a dispensary, but slaggin on CG's doesn't justify a better option for disp. for patients. I dont mind their existence but i dont support them across the board either. another thread is mentioning that disp, tumble there meds to remove the trics for hash. I can't swear to that but the bud i have been offered from folks to try, were substandard to me. And im not that picky. can't imagine a pot snobs view. anywho there is just as many decent CG's as there as a-hole ones. Like all business,,Caveat emptor  (buyer beware).. not all disp are above board either. Why is it that everyone that wants to have a disp, seem to have to make CG's the enemy?  what is the justification for that. Singular competition? 

[t-pain]

i dont even know what you guys are arguing about anymore.

[Highlander]

I talked to a gentlemen today who is growing his own, not because he wants to, but because he can't find a decent grower.  He spent months looking and finally did it himself.  I say good for him, but what if he wasn't capable?  I meet people all the time who are in apartments and disabled, can't grow.

 

My experience may be different than yours, but at least 4 of my patients felt stuck with bad caregivers for a long time until they met me.  But I am going with the literally dozens of patients I have met that had a CG, who didn't do their job, didn't care about quality, and these PTs had no resources to find a good CG.  I have a PT from this very site who couldn't find a decent CG in her area.  She's been with me for over 4 years now.

 

These crap growers stay full 100% of the time, mostly with lies and what not of great meds, free meds, and first month, maybe they get it, then after that quality and consistency decline.  If you want to know how easy it is to get a PT, put up a craigslist post with a picture of a really nice nugget and then put in looking for patient, 1 free oz per month, $200 after that.  You will get flooded with requests, some just want to "sample" but a lot will be looking because their current situation isn't good for them.

 

If I am so wrong, then why are the dispensaries thriving?  If all of the CG's out there are amazing and give good service, then why is there even a market for hundreds of  dispensaries?  If the CG's were so amazing, why aren't they putting all Dispensaries out of business?  The answer is pretty obvious if you open your eyes.

 

Restorium, Bad CG's do well because they sign someone up, promise great meds for free, then don't produce.  They sell it all blackmarket, claim that "something went wrong" with the grow, and it will only be a little while, then when the patient FINALLY gets fed up and leaves 6 months later, they just pick up a new patient from craigslist, because there are literally thousands of PTs out there with a card with no idea where to go or what to do.

 

I spoke to a woman last week, going to get her card, had no idea what to do, didn't even understand what a caregiver was.  Another woman a week before asked me how she was supposed to find any, and asked if she should just drive out to a shady area and ask people at street corners.  I mean it is seriously that bad for some people.

 

Yes, you can argue that this isn't the case. but I can show you where these people are lining up.  You can argue that if they just open their eyes and look around there are tons of patient advocacy places to help.  But if you aren't in the scene, a lot of these resources are hidden from you.

 

Anyway, if you can't see how a Bad CG, with no morals can thrive in a situation like this, then there is nothing I can do to help you.  But maybe you should talk to some people, not people you know, just random people.  Go to a dispensary, and chat with a few people, no need to sign up or buy, just get into a conversation with the PTs.  It is really eye opening.  I found a "smoking" group where it's just a bunch of PTs and CGs who get together and chat once a week.  It has really enlightened me.

 

Willy: I think your logic is flawed.  Just because you have a 5.88 ratio, doesn't mean that 3000 of the 3900 patients you listed aren't happy and just feel stuck because they don't know of any other options.  The more random people I speak to about this, the clearer it becomes.

Of those people you meet all,the time, who live in apartments and can't grow, how many of them can afford dispensary prices for their meds?

 

You have two choices in your MMJ advocacy. You can either advocate for dispensaries where patients pay $10+ per gram or you can work to support the original compassion club model, where patients are either taught how to grow their own or how to connect with a CG who will supply meds around $5 per gram.

[pergamum362]

Unlimited patients registered to a caregiver...sign me up, wish we could make THAT happen.

[+Malamute]

I have always said if we could get it to 10 patients per caregiver it would solve most the problems. Then allow a patient to have 2 caregivers.

 

 Um yeap.... So simple.

[trichcycler]

When I encounter a patient who monopolizes our introduction with complaints about their other caregiver I pay close attention to the remainder of the exchange.

Thats my first flag. Unhappy people are unhappy people sometimes and cant be pleased, and when I recognize this type i move along and waste no more time.

 A common complaint I hear from "pre-interviewed patients is their difficulty in finding a cg that will deliver grams.

 

I gift samples of EVERY strain that a patient does not request with each delivery. This keeps the whole "sampling" thing a non issue here. With consistency I can guarantee that the next time that strain is in you'll get the same experience if you choose to select it  from the menu, no need for small deliveries under an ounce, a delivery I wont make. My one ounce deliveries are no less than 1/4 ounce over weighted with every delivery.

 

 

the dispensary is a gap filler I figured. we could talk about those patients that simply wont find a suitable cg too, for different reasons. When one girl needs 2.5 per month, takes good care of herself, communicates well, is respectful to me and their own family......while another interviewee   patient yells and screams, is dirty, doesnt understand normal thinking, needs a gram once in awhile, pys in quarters, and only one spot is open......the choice is obvious to me. The few times I've been to a dispensary for a look see, these are the types I've seen at the counter, heckling the bud tender, who acts like he could be related to the customer sometimes...lol

 

I find maintaining the patient needing a few grams here and there is more work than the heavy user is and so avoid them mostly.

[Willy]

Grams and CL Wow now thats a combination for a win Patients dont buy grams, that is like buying one antibiotic pill.. I know many are poor as am I ,,  but a CG can adjust his/her price to meet most of there needs... But adverts on CL  ... too funny.. Thats like a frog crosing the highway....  Just asking for a hit..

Edited September 27, 2016 by Willy

[Restorium2]

Restorium, Bad CG's do well because they sign someone up, promise great meds for free, then don't produce.  They sell it all blackmarket, 

 

Maybe where you are but black market prices around here are not that much higher than what a patient would pay. Like I have always said, good meds at a good price and everyone is happy, the grower and the consumer, whether the consumer is a patient or not. No gimmicks. No incredible promises. Just the real deal at a good price. It's universal in whatever market, white, black, green, red, the whole cannabis market. 

[Restorium2]

I have always said if we could get it to 10 patients per caregiver it would solve most the problems. Then allow a patient to have 2 caregivers.

 

 Um yeap.... So simple.

What a beautiful path to go down ....... Go down that path a ways and you see that government interjected into the cannabis market just messes it up. In fact, it's probably the only messed up part. The part that messed it up in the first place. The mother of all cannabis wrongs is the dam put up by the government. The great enabler of all cannabis wrongs, the government. 

[phaquetoo]

cg's relying on that type of business model will dry up I suspect.

 

Oh sure. And they come here biotching and moaning, pointing fingers and making excuses about how it's everyone else's fault they didn't get rich. 

I have a great c.g, He is very good, I have been smoking the best mm for over 5 yrs now!

 

The bad part is coming,,,,,,,the last time I seen him he asked me to cover for him at a despense for 10 bucks an hr, and he also wanted me to do the farm market at the same place every weekend, (his dad is very sick)  I said im not selling mm to strangers, no way no how!  my c.g wont even talk on the phone to me his pt, and he wants me to sell to strangers,,,,,I dont think so,,,,,in fact I NO I wont do it!

 

so my ride is going to be over soon im sure lol, been a good ride, I dont sell my mm, I would rather dig a hole and bury it than sell it or give it away,  Im only gonna have to get more if I run out right?

 

my c.g will sell it all and run us all out, I keep on him so it dont happen to me, Im calling now, it usualy takes a few days to get back to me, but when I call he knows what im calling for, may be my last visit to him,,,,I suppose I should bust out the tents and gear and clean it all up again!  I cleaned it before I put it away, and I will clean it good when I set back up,,,,man im glad I saved every thing but the pro mix, and now I can get that any where!

 

Peace

[phaquetoo]

Last wknd I hosted a young lady who is new to Mi mj.

She wanted the experience of shopping at dispensaries, so I assisted her.

We visited 2 local farmers markets and 2 retail shops.

Both of us forgot our loupes and were unable to examine the flowers b4 purchase.

She called me after scoping her buds to let me know that they had no trichomes!

At that point I reinterated as to why I do not support the dispensaries.

They tumble off the medicine from the plant matter, sell the flowers at avg. $15g

THEN... sell the kief (the medicine) back to said patients @ avg $25g.

 

I have found this at every dispensary I've visited since I started scoping the flowers.

 

Dispensary lobby does not look to enhance patients with compassion and safe access...

they are looking to fleece patients and make big bank in the process.

 

I get out and about A LOT and base my comments and opinions upon what I experience personally only.

 

Anyone who thinks that these dispensaries have patients best interests in mind, really need to get out more IMO.

 

Oh... another thing... customer service is paramount to me in any industry.  Poor customer service will

result in me taking my business else where. 

Out of 4 places we visited... 1 yes... only 1 had knowledgeable/ very helpful bud tenders.  This is not my first

experience with poor CS at dispensaries... sadly it's the norm.  IME

This last shop carries meds from local CG's for an fyi.  Some of which I know personally.

Sadly though,  these buds were also kiefed

Not to stick up for despenses, but my c.g tumbles his before he sells to them, I know that for sure, that is why I get plants not zips!

 

im not so sure the despenses are all doing that, but I know of one c.g who is!

 

Peace

[phaquetoo]

lol  ouch!

Man i am wishy washy this morning, I keep agreeing with both sides!

 

Im bettting the c.g's are tumbling, mine bought one just to do that, he wants to dry my plant for me, I told him that is not our deal, I got a zip last month (plants were not ready) and no tric's lol!

 

my money is on c.g's selling to despenses tumbling, maybe the despensed dont even know what tric's look like, they never seen them before,,,,,,,,,bawahahahahahahahahaha!

 

Peace

[imiubu]

I just lost respect for said CG Jim.

 

I didn't say all or most of etc... I said possibly and probable.

 

The few will always ruin things for the many, sigh.

[imiubu]

Any shop that is taking in pre tumble weed needs shut down.

 

This is utter bs, knocking the medicine off the flowers and selling patients plant matter w/ very little medicine left.

 

Deplorable practices will catch up to these folks and the ones who don't tumble weed will be those who stay open.

 

IMHO