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If I remember correctly from last night's show, the 2.5 mg/lb was actually the effective dose that Jim arrived at for his son Ryan. They found high-CBD low-THC medicine ineffective for him, so that 2.5 mg dose is actually very little CBD.

Huh?  2.5mg per dose is a small amount.  2.5mg per lb, which is what they said for Ryan, is comparable to 350+mg per dose or per day for me.  I've never gone over less than half of that and my patients have come nowhere near that amount.  And for him saying that too much causes problems with autistic patients, of course it would.  Anytime you go outside the ratio that someone has zeroed in on to work is going to cause problems.  Just like it would with THC making you dizzy, etc.  Like I said it's all about finding the correct ratio for your disease.  For some that's a hi ratio of CBD compared to THC.  But I don't remember him saying that the CBD ratio needed to be changed just that they gave him too much.  Kinda hard to hear with people coughing in the background and the sound fading in and out.

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http://4cornerscannabis.com/different-grades-cbd/ 

CBD is likely the most abundant cannabinoid, nearly 40% of a cannabis plant’s resin.   where do they get this number? i havent seen any plant with 40% cbd so far.

GW pharma thesis paper said they got their cbd plant from commercial mj seeds. not hemp.   hemp has been bred for fiber and seed-oil production. its not bred for flower resin like mj is.

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This thread is about the marketing of CBD and the people who post here saying they can't get what they need. What they have carefully explained to me as their patient needs. That's what is important. That's what I started it as and that's what I will continue to bring it back to. 

How did that happen?  The thread started as an explanation of the entourage effect. The study cited showed that both THC and CBD have different medicinal effects.  Some need THC and some don't and some need CBD to be effective and some don't. 

 

Maybe you should frame the outline of what you'd like to discuss if it's different than what the studies you cite profess?

  The other post turned into a bashing of CBD, which was originally about something else and someone sidetracked to bash CBD and then it turned into bashing the people trying to sell it.  Lots of switching of arguments in these threads.

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Maybe it's the correct ratio, or maybe just the correct dosage. The correct dosage is really important. The most important thing. So many patients get way more than what they need to help them medically. Some of the patients that don't want the high could back way down on their dosage. You don't necessarily have to 'hammer' people with cannabinoids. Some need just a touch. Not even enough to get you high. 

 

How did that happen?  The thread started as an explanation of the entourage effect. The study cited showed that both THC and CBD have different medicinal effects.  Some need THC and some don't and some need CBD to be effective and some don't. 

 

Maybe you should frame the outline of what you'd like to discuss if it's different than what the studies you cite profess?

  The other post turned into a bashing of CBD, which was originally about something else and someone sidetracked to bash CBD and then it turned into bashing the people trying to sell it.  Lots of switching of arguments in these threads.

You have to remember that I started this thread and I know what I was thinking when I started it. So there's really no question about that. I started this thread to help people who were thinking they can't get what they need and Michigan is behind California on the strains people need. 

I saw a need and was addressing that. You guys can say whatever you want in this thread, but I say why it was started. 

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The dose was 2.5 mg/lb with a normal strain, rather than a low-THC strain. 

No that's definitely not what he said, he said that they gave tehm way too much CBD off the bat and it made things worse then when we started playing around with the doses 2.5mg/lb was what worked.   What that 2.5mg represents sounds like hi CBD extract unless he changed meanings without defining.

The Dr? said that when you test cannabis there is usually 17%THC and .?? % CBD saying you don't need much CBD.  First off he's talking about manipulted genetics and not talking landrace strains and he's not talking about mixes with higher cbd ratios that come from landrace strains.  Most have been bred to have no CBD. Then he said CBD has been shown to work fine on epilepsy.

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Maybe the thread was started because of the marketing of CBD, but I feel it has moved on to try to explain why high-CBD low-THC stains are so useless to most, and so valued for the rest.

 

I don't think it is really about no-high marijuana, despite the dumb marketing of CBD retailers. The no-high medical marijuana thing is silly to me, as anyone using medical marijuana daily will simply get used to the effects of THC and not worry about it.

Wrong.  Some people have no tolerance for THC and it doesn't "get better" for them no matter how you see the world.

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I understood it as 2.5 mg/lb of cannabis oil. The high-CBD low-THC variants were tried and found ineffective, but I don't know the ratio of the current regimen. I can find out.

Please do because from his statement, he never said hi CBD didn't work just that giving too much made things worse and once he started playing with exact dosing the 2.5mg per lb worked fine.  Never said he switched extracts or went for hi THC extract.  I've listened to it 3 times this am.

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Don't forget that high THC strains also work well for epilepsy. Doesn't that make you wonder if we are looking at the wrong things here? Just guessing around and getting false ideas from guessing about the little they actually can tell from the lab testing we are seeing? It's obviously not so simple as CBD works better for epilepsy. That's false.

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Don't forget that high THC strains also work well for epilepsy. Doesn't that make you wonder if we are looking at the wrong things here? Just guessing around and getting false ideas from guessing about the little they actually can tell from the lab testing we are seeing? It's obviously not so simple as CBD works better for epilepsy. That's false.

Ya, you're lumping "epilepsy" all into the same group.  there are many different kinds of epilepsy and at least 2 different types of seizures.  you really think there is only one ratio or cannabinoid that works on all these different forms of the disease?  Be specific and we can learn more.  but if you just want to talk about epilepsy in general there will be a lot of different ratios that will work.

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Please do because from his statement, he never said hi CBD didn't work just that giving too much made things worse and once he started playing with exact dosing the 2.5mg per lb worked fine.  Never said he switched extracts or went for hi THC extract.  I've listened to it 3 times this am.

That's another problem I'm seeing, standardized dosing. That's something that is really false with cannabis. I think it's false for most drugs and doctors just want their job easier. Keep trying to go there. That's impossible for cannabis and doctors hate it. We know better than to go there from paying attention to patients. Everyone is different.

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I thought this post was about CBD?  Keep on track.  2.5mg per lb was what the parents of Ryan, talking on planet green trees came up with as what worked for them.  no dr. provided that.  And having a bunch of people with the same disease label their doses gives you a range of what to try.  Every piece of info has value in some way.  Unfortunately on PGT they didn't really frame any of their info and cite anything, just spouted off about how hemp oil sucks because you have to use more product to get the oil.  Never mentioned that if you were distilling that arsenic probably would not be in the final extract.  That hemp extracts can be purified.  Can they be dangerous, of course, but not laying out a precise course of how is pretty much fear mongering.  the more I listen the more I think the dr has an angle.  It's unfortunate because there is some good info there but once you've lost my trust it's hard to believe anything unless I back it up now.

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I'd like to hear a description of this, as I've never encountered it in the real world. I am not doubting it at this point, but I think we have moved into some real edge cases here.

 

The effects and side-effects of THC are well known, and documented, by the use of Marinol at least, and contradict your statement.

I've talked to people who throw up when using it(next door neighbor, may be CBD also) and I know 2 people, an RN and my cousin, who have become catatonic for over 1/2hr from just smoking a little puff or 2 and vowed never to try it again.  Makes them paranoid beyond belief. I'll let you know when I remember or hear of any others.  but if I know 3 people and I'm antisocial, I'm sure there are many more.

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I hate to say it and wish I didn't have to, but there are several reasons to avoid the hemp-based CBD extracts. You can read the cornucopia of issues in the letters sent by the FDA to several suppliers last year. Some of them were based on bogus legal stuff like interstate commerce, but the main issues were inconsistency or mismatch with labeling on CBD quantities, THC being present, and exaggerated claims of medical efficacy, which I think are all pertinent to this thread.

I didn't say they couldn't and I don't think anyone should ever vape that stuff.  But again he stated possibilities of how it could be dangerous but never layed out how they could also be perfectly fine if distilled correctly and ingested rather than vaping or smoking them.  Back on topic was for restos post before yours, sorry I didn't quote it.

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OK, I'll buy that (although the throwing up is really strange, and THC would be the last thing I'd attribute it to given its broadly-acknowledged antiemetic effect). But if they had kept it up daily for a week or so, that feeling goes away. Everybody has to get used to the effects of their medicine.

No this person was an extremely heavy smoker during their hs years and then it started happening every time she smoked.

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No this person was an extremely heavy smoker during their hs years and then it started happening every time she smoked.

Could have been some other sickness. For example; I can drink a lot of beverages with caffeine if I'm feeling fine but when I'm sick it makes me feel funny and I can't handle it like when I'm not sick. This could be an anomaly where a sickness has an effect on the cannabinoids' effects like with caffeine. 

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Liver aggravation can also cause these type of symptoms. Cannabis sensitivity can be a symptom of that. You can find out with a blood test. 

Well, she's still alive today and it's always happened.  Don't see why you are all fired up on disproving it.

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Just helping. Always just helping. Pretend you understand that while you are posting to me. 

Helping by saying I overdosed my patients, that patients are brainwashed thinking they need CBD.  Just stop already resto.  you are in a good mood so I'm all of a sudden supposed to just treat you like you've never tried to hurt my feelings, paint me as a bad guy or mislead people by highlighting one sentence of a post I made and take it out of context?  What was that crap about different personalities yesterday?

 Stop trying to make it look like your only here to help.  you know it's not the truth.  Most of your posts are egocentric and now I'm just supposed to "play nice" cause you are in a better mood?

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