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Helping by saying I overdosed my patients, that patients are brainwashed thinking they need CBD.  Just stop already resto.  you are in a good mood so I'm all of a sudden supposed to just treat you like you've never tried to hurt my feelings, paint me as a bad guy or mislead people by highlighting one sentence of a post I made and take it out of context?  What was that crap about different personalities yesterday?

 Stop trying to make it look like your only here to help.  you know it's not the truth.  Most of your posts are egocentric and now I'm just supposed to "play nice" cause you are in a better mood?

No. Helping by trying to give you some ways to help the poor lady, of course. 

 

I'm the same every day. SSDD Just helping. No reason to do anything else. I'm not selling anything. 

Edited by Restorium2
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http://4cornerscannabis.com/different-grades-cbd/ 

CBD is likely the most abundant cannabinoid, nearly 40% of a cannabis plant’s resin.   where do they get this number? i havent seen any plant with 40% cbd so far.

GW pharma thesis paper said they got their cbd plant from commercial mj seeds. not hemp.   hemp has been bred for fiber and seed-oil production. its not bred for flower resin like mj is.

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No answer needed.  You think her liver has been bad for 30 years and she never found out about it?

First off you didn't say 30 years went by. Second, I didn't say that her liver was bad, I said it might be irritated causing these symptoms you were talking about. You check that with a blood test.

 

You also mentioned that you thought people with mental problems might have swelling on the brain, inflammation. And you thought CBD was helping with that. There's a blood test for that too. You could do a before and after to confirm your idea. Like they do for people with severe arthritis inflammatory disease. 

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Can you believe doctors still test their patients to see if the medicine they prescribe is working, even though they know precisely what's in it? Makes you wonder.

Part of the actual approval of the drug's use requires regular blood testing due to the potential for serious side effects. They look for liver irritation. It's easy for them to also include the test for inflammation at the same time to see how the drug is working. It's a fairly cheap and easy test for a patient. I take two different drugs I have to have a blood test for. 

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First off you didn't say 30 years went by. Second, I didn't say that her liver was bad, I said it might be irritated causing these symptoms you were talking about. You check that with a blood test.

 

You also mentioned that you thought people with mental problems might have swelling on the brain, inflammation. And you thought CBD was helping with that. There's a blood test for that too. You could do a before and after to confirm your idea. Like they do for people with severe arthritis inflammatory disease. 

First off, you didn't ask. You generally don't, you tell without getting all the info.

 

Secondly, I didnt say I thought people with mental problems had swelling on the brain, inflammation.  And Autism isn't a "mental problem" although it can cause problems.  There are many highly functioning ASD's and Aspie's out there.  It's a different way of looking at the world and who are you to say it's a mental problem?

  I said it was a possibility but doesn't account for CBD reducing anxiety for people who just smoked THC, unless you are saying THC causes swelling of the brain. I said it didn't explain people who had anxiety speaking in front of crowds being affected.  I said that it wouldn't explain everything that CBD does with anxiety, probably by a long shot.  Scientists like the one on PGT are looking for a unifying principle when it's usually a number of different means and variables.

Personally I just had blood tests done in feb and again this monday and I had no inflammation markers so.........  But I did have hi Bilirubin, yet no problem taking MJ. And I had an MRI for liver lesions yesterday and I'm having no problem getting in over 3000 cal a day and i have stomach problems and I'm using MJ every day without loss of apatite.  Not sure if the liver growths or hi bilirubin levels or lesions qualify  for irritation but I'll find out if it's cancer on Wed. Then I can ask teh doc if what I have is considered irritation.

My cancer patient has his blood tests done 2x a year and he hasn't mentioned anything.

 

Either the tests are more specific than you understand or it's bunk science.  Personally I think it's more complicated than you understand and the doc isn't exactly sure what he's talking about.  He may be on to something but still misses a bunch of pieces of the puzzle.

Edited by ANHEMP
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It fits in well with what's been said on this thread regarding the effects on the patient being far more important than what's in the herb. It's pretty obvious, I was just pointing out that doctors do this even when they know precisely what is in the meds they've prescribed.

They are both equally important.

How can you repeat or fix side effects or problems in treatment if you don't know what's doing what?

  How can you surmise what MAY work well on other patients if you don't know what's happening or what's in what you are using? You realize everyone is different but we are close enough to the same that you can figure things out and build on the knowledge to make things better in the future?

 

That's how you figure out stuff like this.

http://ireadculture.com/cannabis-terpene-can-kill-cancer-cells-terpineol/

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It fits in well with what's been said on this thread regarding the effects on the patient being far more important than what's in the herb. It's pretty obvious, I was just pointing out that doctors do this even when they know precisely what is in the meds they've prescribed.

Right. A sed rate test can tell you a lot. Along with a safety test for liver enzymes. I think you can get those for around $25. When I have an alcoholic patient, or even a pain meds patient, I always ask them if they have had one of these blood tests recently. They could have serious liver and/or inflammation problems that will effect their treatment with cannabis. It's definitely a tool in our arsenal to help patients. 

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Considering its anti inflammatory properties maybe that's why they recommend it to reverse the damage caused to the brain by alcohol.

 

http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-medical-marijuana/2013/11/cannabidiol-the-side-of-marijuana-you-dont-know/

 

And recommend it to reverse effects of liver damage

 

http://www.medicalmarijuanainc.com/cirrhosis-medical-marijuana-research/

 

CBD has lots of uses you may not know about since you don't see CBD as a medicine.  What you say may be a problem for THC but CBD seems to be recommended in those cases.

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Just because you say it doesn't make it true, you've said a couple times patient who think CBD is medicine are brainwashed and people pushing CBD are snake oil salesman.  You are acting just like Trump.  You just deny you ever said anything bad even though it's written out on this very site!

 

So fuking ironic I'm trying to get people to believe CBD is medicine who have been denied the thought that THC is medicine for so long.  You'd think you would AT LEAST get the benefit of the doubt but instead get fought tooth and nail. And then repost that they'll always fight for it, right in the same thread they made to disprove it's use and that THC rules.  What a joke.

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What's So Great About Cbd?

 

It works great with THC and all the other cannabinoids. There's nothing else on Earth that can do what CBD does. But it doesn't rule the roost. It's a welcome member in the band. 

 

 

LOL.  And this in the same threrad you cut and pasted to leave out it's efficacy. LOL

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I am pretty sure that the information I posted on this thread states and supports only the ideas that marijuana is not medicine for most patients when the THC is removed, and that high-CBD low-THC varieties will be ineffective for most people. While I will admit that I am skeptical of attributing medical efficacy to any one cannabinoid (other than THC, which has still proved itself less effective in isolated pharmaceutical preparations than cannabis oil or herb), I think we are likely just scratching the surface here of why so many people have absolutely no effect, or negative effects, from CBD, while few others find it life-changing and essential. I know that Dr. Bogner's statements have given me pause to reconsider my skepticism. We also previously had Karl Ebner on the show, who is our expert toxicologist. I recall him saying something similar regarding the creation of cannabinoid receptors around joint inflammation or injury sites, but need to learn more.

At least you admit it.  I respect that.

Although I believe the opposite, that every compound found in cannabis is medicinal and together they make a myriad of medicines.  Individually they all have uses.

Personally I have seen a larger percentage of people who have found it useful than not so maybe you just haven't been around people who have got a good cut or grown it well or something.  Only one used them as medibles who had it cancel out the painkilling effects, none other had "negative" effects, so I don't know what you're talking about there.  But these are all people who incorporated it with THC. I don't know many who wanted only hi CBD meds.  they mixed it in with hi THC strains.

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You know that seems like a spam link, right? Also, it has the "CBD causes headaches" thing in that article.

 

5th link on the page is Buy Now! at $200 for 30 mL.

No, it said HEMP causes headaches.  Read it again.

 

"there is an old saying".  Could refer to people smoking the hemp with seeds still in it.

  What it does say is that mj contains few phytotoxins since it is bred for consumption.  Seemingly pointing to the phytotoxins as reason for a headache.  CBD is not a phytotoxin.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I'm a newbie to medical marijuana and have been unsuccessfully searching in my area for a high CBD strain that's not psychoactive. Everybody I talk to either doesn't have it or they had it at one time but discontinued it. One question I have is the Cannatonic strain just as good as the AC/DC and Charlotte's web strains you hear so much about? Another question is do you guys see these CBD strains reversing brain damage as they mention in the CNN Weed documentary almost at the very end?

 

GUPTA: And it's research that could give hope to patients like Charlotte Figi. Scientists in Israel are learning that marijuana use might actually protect the brain, not damage it.

They've been able to show that it can decrease the amount of brain damage from head injuries in mice.

HOLLAND: Right. To be able to give a medicine after the injury to reverse some of the damage, that's huge.

P. FIGI: You want to paint your nails? I'll paint your nails.

M. FIGI: I literally see Charlotte's brain making connections that haven't been made in years. It's almost seeming to build her brain where before it seemed broken.

GUPTA: And while scientists are still at the very early stages of knowing if this is actually happening, I can tell you it was remarkable to see her progress. In the three months since we first met her, we saw a change. She was now talking more.

 

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It doesn't reverse brain damage.

 

It acts as a neuroprotectant to minimize damage, lessen further damage, and help allow the brain to recover.

 

Much of that protection seems to also come from Flavonoids. Thus oil isn't the best way of going about it since the process generally destroys the good stuff.

 

Other neuroprotectants are like Berries that have Anthocyanins. Flavonoids like quercetin.  Also epicatechin that is found in dark chocolate. Green tea has epigallocatechin gallate. There's also stuff like Curcumin, alpha lipoic acid,  l-carnosine, and like fish oils.

 

THC and CBD both have neuroprotective qualities. But getting strains with certain flavonoids is important as well.

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I agree, that makes sense to me from what I've read about the neuroplasticity of the brain. A child's developing brain would be exceptionally malleable. But the documentary used the term reversal and stated that science has yet to understand the process.

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CV Sciences, Inc. Reports Growing Clinical Evidence for Therapeutic Value of Pharmaceutical-Grade Cannabidiol (CBD)

 

 

Company Developing Prescription CBD for Smokeless Tobacco Addiction

LAS VEGAS, NV--(Marketwired - July 05, 2017) - CV Sciences, Inc. (OTCQB: CVSI) (the "Company," "CV Sciences," "our" or "we"), today provided an update on published outcomes of recent clinical research on pharmaceutical-grade cannabidiol (CBD) pointing to its therapeutic potential as a prescription drug.

In The New England Journal of Medicine published on May 25, 2017, a clinical trial of pharmaceutical-grade CBD as an adjunct to standard anticonvulsive therapy sponsored by GW Pharmaceuticals in the control of a rare unremitting, drug-resistant seizure disorder, Dravet's syndrome, demonstrated a statistically significant reduction in the number of seizures in the patients receiving CBD versus placebo while both groups were maintained on standard anticonvulsants. A total of 120 children and young adults were randomly assigned to receive either CBD in an oral solution at a dose of 20 mg/kg or placebo and then followed for 14 weeks. The control group had a median change from baseline of 14.9 convulsive seizures per month to 14.1 whereas the CBD-treated group had a median change from baseline of 12.4 convulsive seizures to 5.9 per month (P<0.01). It seems then that CBD may be a useful adjunct to anticonvulsive medication in this syndrome.

Currently, there are no FDA-approved indications for CBD. The scientific basis for CBD's potential as a prescription treatment for diseases such as seizure disorders, schizophrenia, depression, anxiety, autoimmunity, drug addiction, and pain is suggested principally by in vitro and animal models of evidence of activity, but well-controlled human clinical trials are needed for substantiation of its anticipated therapeutic benefits.

Fortunately, pharmaceutical development companies are now pursuing diverse indications for pharmaceutical-grade CBD. The quality of human studies supported by these corporate sponsors is improving the confidence in clinical research on CBD significantly. In the past, albeit important contributors to the development of CBD, most clinical CBD studies were conducted by academic centers, typically using non-pharmaceutical-grade botanical CBD formulations with limited numbers of patients and limited trial designs, but more recent clinical studies are being conducted under corporately sponsored Investigational New Drug (IND) protocols sanctioned by the FDA using pharmaceutical-grade CBD in multicenter, randomized, double-blinded, parallel group trials with robust outcomes. These studies are beginning to provide meaningful support for the therapeutic benefits of CBD as a prescription drug.

CV Sciences, Inc. is devoted to the pioneering development of a prescription synthetic CBD as an adjunct to nicotine-replacement therapy (NRT) in the treatment of smokeless tobacco (ST) addiction. There is no approved therapy for smokeless tobacco addiction. Prior attempts to use NRT, for example, have failed in achieving abstinence for ST addiction. CV Sciences believes that its patent-pending approach to adjunctive use of CBD with NRT will be successful in achieving abstinence from ST based on CBD's effects on the molecular targets that are known to play a role in nicotine dependence. According to Statista, there was approximately $5.3 billion in retail sales of smokeless tobacco products in 2014 and approximately 1.3 billion units of smokeless tobacco products sold during that time. CV Sciences believes that its initial drug candidate to treat smokeless tobacco addiction can dramatically improve patient outcomes for millionsCurrently the smokeless tobacco cessation market is estimated at $2 billion, growing to over $4 billion.

About CV Sciences, Inc.

CV Sciences, Inc. (OTCQB: CVSI) operates two distinct business segments: a drug development division focused on developing and commercializing novel therapeutics utilizing synthetic CBD; and a consumer product division in manufacturing, marketing and selling plant-based CBD products to a range of market sectors. CV Sciences, Inc. has primary offices and facilities in San Diego, California and Las Vegas, Nevada. Additional information is available from OTCMarkets.com or by visiting www.cvsciences.com.

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Leafly Investigation: Why Are CBD Prices So Confusing?

July 18, 2017
 
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Last summer I was hit with a nasty illness called gouty arthritis which caused my toes to swell to the size of gherkins. Walking was torture. Each step felt like a hot knife stabbing into the joints of my bloated digits. Even the weight of a single cotton sheet bearing down during sleep was unbearable.

 
Why the price disparity? Some products offer CBD at 5 cents per milligram. Others charge four to ten times as much.

I am an active, healthy man, but this condition left me feeling hobbled, unhappy and unfashionable. The only shoes I could comfortably wear were Birkenstocks, which just look wrong with a suit. I spent thousands of dollars on dozens of blood tests only to be told by the specialists at NYU’s Langone Medical Center that my best treatment option was Advil.

That was not a welcome prescription. Advil and other NSAID anti-inflammatories can, over time, can lead to damaged liver, kidneys, and, in extreme cases, death. An estimated 16,500 Americans die each year from complications related to these drugs.

The bigger problem for me was that NSAIDs offered spotty and unreliable relief.

So I looked into a cannabis-based solution.

On my next trip to Colorado, I bought some cannabidiol (CBD) tinctures, pills and salves. While CBD is no cure for arthritis—nothing can replace the joint lubricating synovial fluid once it diminishes—one 25 ml dose of tincture twice a day under the tongue, plus the occasional puff of CBD oil in a vape pen and the obligatory Omega 3 oils (which, I subsequently learned, optimize the cannabinoid receptors in the body) has noticeably reduced my pain. I am steadier on my feet and back in shoes.

But the fact is, when it comes to CBD medications I, like most patients, am groping in the dark. There are no reliable dosage guidelines for specific conditions, nor are there standard measurements, which is confusing when attempting to compare products. Most patients don’t understand which delivery system is optimal: Capsule? Tincture? Flower?

What’s more, the complete absence of federal safety regulations means the purity of CBD is always in question.

The most confusing and frustrating aspect, though, is the vast disparity in price. Some products offer CBD at 5 cents per milligram. Others charge four times as much—20 cents per mg. One company charges 60 cents per mg!

Here are the latest prices I could find online:

Brand Total CBD (mg) Price $ per mg
Green Mountain 600 $ 30 $ 0.05
CW Simply Hemp 2100 $ 120 $ 0.06
Infinite CBD 100 $ 8 $ 0.08
Endoca 300 $ 31 $ 0.10
Plus CBD Oil 600 $ 54 $ 0.11
Highland Pharms 450 $ 50 $ 0.11
Tasty Hemp Oil 450 $ 50 $ 0.11
Aunt Zelda's 600 $ 70 $ 0.12
RSHO Gold Label 750 $ 119 $ 0.16
ETST Earth Science Tech 450 $ 85 $ 0.19
Dixie Botanicals 750 $ 149 $ 0.20
Imbue Botanicals 300 $ 64 $ 0.23
Mary's Nutritionals Elite 150 $ 90 $ 0.60

Consider this: Pine Tsunami, a low-THC (4.5%), high-CBD (15.3%) strain of cannabis flower, sells at Vela in Seattle for $184 an ounce. Chanel No.5 Grand Extrait perfume retails online for $276 an ounce. An ounce of HP printer ink goes for about $75 at Staples. A bar of .999 percent pure silver costs $18 an ounce. Most medicinal dried herbs retail for under $4 an ounce.

Pure CBD, at 10 cents per milligram, carries a consumer cost of $2,835 an ounce—more than twice that of pure gold.

If you scatter plot the prices of CBD for sale online, you get a sense of the helter-skelter nature of the market:

 

What gives? Are some producers turning this medicine into the “weed of greed? Or is the still-lingering weight of prohibition driving prices skyward?

As a journalist with piqued curiosity, and a patient seeking reliable medicine at a reasonable price, I decided to investigate.

 
 
 

Are some producers turning CBD into the 'weed of greed'?

 

Hard to Know What You’re Getting

Even as public awareness of CBD’s healing potential has grown, it remains difficult to assess the quality, safety, and, importantly, the origin of most CBD products, thanks to the 80-year federal prohibition of cannabis and the resulting lack of both research and regulation.

“God knows what toxins are in the hemp processed in countries like China or Romania.”
Dr. Ethan Russo, leading cannabis researcher

Even though the law does not classify CBD as a Schedule I narcotic, the DEA claims that it is. (CBD, unlike THC, is not psychoactive.) That discrepancy leaves a lot of gray area when it comes to knowing how to operate. “It’s why some manufacturers don’t list CBD on the label,” says Heather Jackson, CEO and co-founder of Realm of Caring, a patient research and advocacy nonprofit in Colorado. “They may list ‘hemp extract,’ which is code for the entire cannabinoid content, but not necessarily CBD.”

Until recently, hemp growing and production was banned in the United States. As a result, much of the CBD being used today is extracted from hemp grown in Europe, or in some cases, China. (Google “CBD powder” and Alibaba and see what comes up.) This is troubling. Hemp has an extraordinary ability to absorb toxins from polluted soils—it’s a natural soil remediator. After the 1988 Chernobyl nuclear reactor meltdown, hemp was planted around the contaminated disaster site for exactly that reason. Oils extracted from plants grown near soils contaminated by pesticides or industrial effluents may contain those impurities in concentrated amounts. In today’s CBD market, manufacturers are under no obligation to tell consumers where their hemp was grown or to test it for contaminants.

Screen-Shot-2017-07-18-at-1.48.43-PM.png Caveat emptor: Chinese-sourced CBD powder can be ordered in bulk for less than 2¢/mg on Alibaba.com.

“God knows what toxins are in the hemp processed in countries like China or Romania, which don’t have the same laws about pesticide use that we have,” says Dr. Ethan Russo, a neurologist, ethnobotanist, and one of America’s leading researchers into medical cannabis. “I don’t trust any of it and I don’t think anyone else should either.”

It's a tough choice for patients: $200/month for CBD or $11/month for Advil.

The good news is that it’s increasingly possible to source higher-quality, laboratory-tested CBD derived from organic hemp grown in Western European countries—Austria, Germany, the Netherlands—with strong environmental regulations. High-quality hemp oils from Europe now wholesale for 0.5 cents to 1 cent per milligram. If encapsulating, bottling, and labeling that oil doubles the production cost, a manufacturer filling a pill bottle with 30 20-mg capsules (a standard dose) and selling that bottle online for $60 (8 cents/mg) is realizing at least a 400% markup. 

While that may suit American manufacturers, it’s challenging for financially strapped patients who must cough up $200 to $300 a month—the equivalent of a monthly car lease—for CBD meds. In a rational world, health insurance would cover much of that cost. But the federal government still refuses to treat cannabinoid medicine with any sort of rationality. For people on fixed or low incomes, CBD isn’t a sustainable option, especially compared to an NSAID like Advil, which clocks in at about 6 cents per pill, or about $11 per month.

Dr. Lester Grinspoon, the renowned Harvard psychiatrist who wrote the 1972 best seller Marihuana Reconsidered, dubbed medical marijuana “the people’s medicine,” precisely because it could be made economically or grown at home. But at this price, CBD is more of a luxury product than an affordable treatment, less for the people and more for the pashas.

The Price of Risk

I’m a patient, but I’m also a small business owner. I understand the challenge of conducting business in the cannabis space, which in many states is still considered a criminal activity. The media crows about “marijuana millionaires,” but the weight of prohibition can often be crushing to a small business with high startup costs, low revenue, and a fair amount of risk.

Federal law doesn't directly address the status of CBD. But the DEA claims it's illegal.

CBD producers shoulder a greater risk than the maker of any “normal channel” medicine. With the Trump administration sending mixed signals on hemp oil—the DEA’s notorious December 2016 Federal Register rule had manufacturers fretting that the government would ban it outright—the risk could suddenly turn hazardous.

Still, it’s difficult to fathom why CBD, derived from an easily grown and processed weed, is ten times more expensive than a precious metal.

Is Green the New Silver?

Prohibition imposes a criminal risk factor, certainly. But cocaine carries a far greater risk factor than CBD. And at $100 per gram, cocaine sells for the same exact price—$2,835 per ounce. So legal risk can’t be the only reason.

As I asked industry manufacturers, retailers, consumers, and researchers to explain the high price of CBD, five answers were consistently floated: inefficient farming and production, the costs of introducing a new product into an unregulated market, insufficient consumer information, limited patient access, and greed.

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