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De-carb before extraction or after for Vaping purposes.


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Just purchased an extraction machine and I'm going to start making my own distillate for vaping. Have just a couple questions I'm having trouble getting clarified and wondering if anyone on here would know.

1. Should I decarboxylate before extracting or after, or does it not matter? I know that vaping will heat the oil and do some decarboxylating itself, but is there any advantage to decarboxylating before extracting? I.e. will you release more THC - A by decarbing first?

2. Grind or leave whole? I know grinding it smaller gives more surface area allowing the solvent to gather more oil as it passes over the plant. However, to my surprise I've seen many say you should never grind as it destroys trichomes and can remove some of the terpenes. However I don't see how leaving bigger chunks would be better, seems like the solvent wouldn't be able to penetrate into the plant as far.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated as I am a newbie to this process. Thanks!

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Dry, grind, take your time extracting and you will get all the cannabinoids. If you are going to vape no need to heat it BUT you do need to winterize for a smooth hit. 

Remember that our legislature made rules against extraction so keep it on the down low. They will not even let you extract with alcohol you would have in your liquor cabinet. It seems they got in the hater line twice and missed the brain line. If they would have thought about it they would have realized their martinis are more dangerous than our alcohol extractions and would have accommodated us real medical caregivers and patients. We need to vote in more real people that think for themselves (and are not so pickle headed).

Edited by Restorium2
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In my experience, it is much better to decarb after, with one exception, if the buds were already naturally decarbed. 

Decarbing before vaping, I do not recommend. Vaping oil that has been decarbed first will be more harsh and gag you, and most of the terpenes will be gone due to the heat decarbing process. Winterizing can smooth the hit, but also removes flavor, terpenes, and other medicinal properties. When ingesting winterized oil, it alters the buzz effects, for me, it is more visual. 

As far as grinding or leaving whole before solvent, that depends on your extraction method. I have never used one of those extracting machines, so I cannot comment on that process. I do everything by hand and leave the buds whole. My buds are bone dry, jarred, and placed in the freezer at least 2 days before extracting. I also put the solvent in the freezer so the temperature will be the same. When I add the solvent to the buds in the jar, they pretty much dissolve off the stems when I shake the jar. Then filter and continue the process. 

All in all, it boils down to personal preference. Try different methods, and stick with what you like. 

I have more detailed information about my extracting methods and experience with vaping oils in my blog. 

Edited by GrowGoddess
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18 hours ago, GrowGoddess said:

In my experience, it is much better to decarb after, with one exception, if the buds were already naturally decarbed. 

Decarbing before vaping, I do not recommend. Vaping oil that has been decarbed first will be more harsh and gag you, and most of the terpenes will be gone due to the heat decarbing process. Winterizing can smooth the hit, but also removes flavor, terpenes, and other medicinal properties. When ingesting winterized oil, it alters the buzz effects, for me, it is more visual. 

As far as grinding or leaving whole before solvent, that depends on your extraction method. I have never used one of those extracting machines, so I cannot comment on that process. I do everything by hand and leave the buds whole. My buds are bone dry, jarred, and placed in the freezer at least 2 days before extracting. I also put the solvent in the freezer so the temperature will be the same. When I add the solvent to the buds in the jar, they pretty much dissolve off the stems when I shake the jar. Then filter and continue the process. 

All in all, it boils down to personal preference. Try different methods, and stick with what you like. 

I have more detailed information about my extracting methods and experience with vaping oils in my blog. 

I think you might be confused about the winterization process. Winterizing, when done correctly, only removes fats and waxes, not cannabinoids, not flavors, therefor you don't lose any medicinal properties. That's why it's different only when you ingest it orally (without heat) because fats help the digestion of the cannabinoids when not heated. I recommended to winterize ONLY for vaping. But if you do have some winterized oil you want to ingest orally then all you have to do is ingest some fat with it. Butter would be good. Then it's the same. 

Another misconception is about the heat decarbing: Take some primo buds, vape them in a Volcano, use that duff for an extraction and find that it's the smoothest vaped hit you ever had. 

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I guess what I left out is you definitely can make some terrible oil that doesn't work good for anything....

Some blame the process if they haven't had success with that process. 

If you haven't made a lot of oil a lot of different ways you might have some misconceptions about what works and what doesn't from failures due to things outside the process.  It's easy to make oil that gags you or makes you feel bad. But that's what we are trying to avoid with advice from people who have had success. 

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My apologies GrassMonkey for the hijack. 

However, I am very confident in my statements. How about we get together with our "successfully made concentrates", natural and winterized,  and have a comparison event? Get a few of us together, including those who would offer an unbiased opinion and have a sample party? Let's say late spring early summer 2019? You in Resto?

I would say let's do it after December 6,  2018 but I need to make some of my ND sap first, and that process takes at least 100 days. RSO would not offer a fair comparison, regular or winterized in my opinion because many terpenes are absent due to the heat decarbing process. 

How I know the difference between winterized (no terpenes), and not winterized (with terpenes) is by doing a comparison of a naturally decarbed product that contains all terpenes. I have done this on multiple occasions, side-by-side comparisons, to prove the theory is correct. Not just myself, but my patients as well.

Are you able to explain your processes in which you came to your conclusions to say the terpenes have no effect, it is only the fats or is that only based on articles written by others? I am honestly curious. 

I think a sample party would be fun. We would need some volunteer testers though and a private location too. 

This constant blowing of hot air in regards to concentrates is getting old. Let's do a real comparison, complete with prepared charts and enough samples to allow for a week's worth of testing. 

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3 minutes ago, GrowGoddess said:

My apologies GrassMonkey for the hijack. 

However, I am very confident in my statements. How about we get together with our "successfully made concentrates", natural and winterized,  and have a comparison event? Get a few of us together, including those who would offer an unbiased opinion and have a sample party? Let's say late spring early summer 2019? You in Resto?

I would say let's do it after December 6,  2018 but I need to make some of my ND sap first, and that process takes at least 100 days. RSO would not offer a fair comparison, regular or winterized in my opinion because many terpenes are absent due to the heat decarbing process. 

How I know the difference between winterized (no terpenes), and not winterized (with terpenes) is by doing a comparison of a naturally decarbed product that contains all terpenes. I have done this on multiple occasions, side-by-side comparisons, to prove the theory is correct. Not just myself, but my patients as well.

Are you able to explain your processes in which you came to your conclusions to say the terpenes have no effect, it is only the fats or is that only based on articles written by others? I am honestly curious. 

I think a sample party would be fun. We would need some volunteer testers though and a private location too. 

This constant blowing of hot air in regards to concentrates is getting old. Let's do a real comparison, complete with prepared charts and enough samples to allow for a week's worth of testing. 

I would rather just share my successes and how I did it. Very simple and positive. That's how I like to live. 

If you have problems and make some oil that you don't like I can help you improve it. 

I have had great success with all types of oil and processes.

Some ways are a little more challenging than others.

I felt bad for you when you wrote about your failures. That's why I gave the advice. Not for some sort of 'measuring contest'. Just honest to goodness free help.,

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7 minutes ago, GrowGoddess said:

My apologies GrassMonkey for the hijack. 

However, I am very confident in my statements. How about we get together with our "successfully made concentrates", natural and winterized,  and have a comparison event? Get a few of us together, including those who would offer an unbiased opinion and have a sample party? Let's say late spring early summer 2019? You in Resto?

I would say let's do it after December 6,  2018 but I need to make some of my ND sap first, and that process takes at least 100 days. RSO would not offer a fair comparison, regular or winterized in my opinion because many terpenes are absent due to the heat decarbing process. 

How I know the difference between winterized (no terpenes), and not winterized (with terpenes) is by doing a comparison of a naturally decarbed product that contains all terpenes. I have done this on multiple occasions, side-by-side comparisons, to prove the theory is correct. Not just myself, but my patients as well.

Are you able to explain your processes in which you came to your conclusions to say the terpenes have no effect, it is only the fats or is that only based on articles written by others? I am honestly curious. 

I think a sample party would be fun. We would need some volunteer testers though and a private location too. 

This constant blowing of hot air in regards to concentrates is getting old. Let's do a real comparison, complete with prepared charts and enough samples to allow for a week's worth of testing. 

That is just wrong and not helping anyone. Winterizing involves freezing, not heating. From what you are writing you are showing that you are confused about winterization. 

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11 minutes ago, GrowGoddess said:

My apologies GrassMonkey for the hijack. 

However, I am very confident in my statements. How about we get together with our "successfully made concentrates", natural and winterized,  and have a comparison event? Get a few of us together, including those who would offer an unbiased opinion and have a sample party? Let's say late spring early summer 2019? You in Resto?

I would say let's do it after December 6,  2018 but I need to make some of my ND sap first, and that process takes at least 100 days. RSO would not offer a fair comparison, regular or winterized in my opinion because many terpenes are absent due to the heat decarbing process. 

How I know the difference between winterized (no terpenes), and not winterized (with terpenes) is by doing a comparison of a naturally decarbed product that contains all terpenes. I have done this on multiple occasions, side-by-side comparisons, to prove the theory is correct. Not just myself, but my patients as well.

Are you able to explain your processes in which you came to your conclusions to say the terpenes have no effect, it is only the fats or is that only based on articles written by others? I am honestly curious. 

I think a sample party would be fun. We would need some volunteer testers though and a private location too. 

This constant blowing of hot air in regards to concentrates is getting old. Let's do a real comparison, complete with prepared charts and enough samples to allow for a week's worth of testing. 

Of course I haven't ever said anything even close to that. I like to include all the cannabinoids in my oils. 

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3 minutes ago, Restorium2 said:

I would rather just share my successes and how I did it. Very simple and positive. That's how I like to live. 

If you have problems and make some oil that you don't like I can help you improve it. 

I have had great success with all types of oil and processes.

Some ways are a little more challenging than others.

I felt bad for you when you wrote about your failures. That's why I gave the advice. Not for some sort of 'measuring contest'. Just honest to goodness free help.,

I am suggesting to get together and compare for everyone. I have nothing to hide. 
As for failures? WHAT? explain in more detail please? Cataloging my experiences is learning from my mistakes, not a cry for help. LOL 
All in good honest fun. That's ok, I understand, I'm sure everyone else does too.

Winterizing filters, period, not all terpenes are created equal some float, others sink. A loss of flavor, is a loss of terpenes (flavinoids). A difference in "buzz" effects, 24-48 hour buzz vs. 12 hour buzz. 

There are only 2 ways to get terpene oil in a concentrate. 1. is naturally decarbing with no heat (heat destroys many terpenes), evaporates. 2. would be doing an essential oil extraction, removing terpenes, then returning them to the concentrate after the process has been completed. This is all in regards to a concentrate that is fully decarbed and intended for ingested.

 No more talk. I'm  ready to walk, are you?

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8 minutes ago, Restorium2 said:

If you think you understand winterization, explain why you think terpenes are leaving during the process. I'm curious as to where you picked up such bad info.

I know winterization requires freezing, the decarbing requires heating. 

Where do you get off saying I am confused. Do you not understand English or are you purposefully trying to confuse everyone else? You of all people know I understand the processes. 

Whatever 

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Just now, GrowGoddess said:

I know winterization requires freezing, the decarbing requires heating. 

Where do you get off saying I am confused. Do you not understand English or are you purposefully trying to confuse everyone else? You of all people know I understand the processes. 

Whatever 

You are confused because you wrote that winterization takes away terpenes. 

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5 minutes ago, GrowGoddess said:

I am suggesting to get together and compare for everyone. I have nothing to hide. 
As for failures? WHAT? explain in more detail please? Cataloging my experiences is learning from my mistakes, not a cry for help. LOL 
All in good honest fun. That's ok, I understand, I'm sure everyone else does too.

Winterizing filters, period, not all terpenes are created equal some float, others sink. A loss of flavor, is a loss of terpenes (flavinoids). A difference in "buzz" effects, 24-48 hour buzz vs. 12 hour buzz. 

There are only 2 ways to get terpene oil in a concentrate. 1. is naturally decarbing with no heat (heat destroys many terpenes), evaporates. 2. would be doing an essential oil extraction, removing terpenes, then returning them to the concentrate after the process has been completed. This is all in regards to a concentrate that is fully decarbed and intended for ingested.

 No more talk. I'm  ready to walk, are you?

I would rethink that. What you are doing is illegal in Michigan because of our terrible legislature and the rules they made.

That's why I'm not going to have some sort of 'party' comparing our illegal activity. That would be totally idiotic. 

 

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25 minutes ago, GrowGoddess said:

I know winterization requires freezing, the decarbing requires heating. 

Where do you get off saying I am confused. Do you not understand English or are you purposefully trying to confuse everyone else? You of all people know I understand the processes. 

Whatever 

I have no idea who you are or what you do.

Right now I'm wondering why you think you can do something in public that I know I would get busted for. 

I'm suspicious of people like that. Really suspicious. They are usually cops. 

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1 hour ago, GrowGoddess said:

I think a sample party would be fun. We would need some volunteer testers though and a private location too. 

 

 

34 minutes ago, Restorium2 said:

I have no idea who you are or what you do.

Right now I'm wondering why you think you can do something in public that I know I would get busted for. 

I'm suspicious of people like that. Really suspicious. They are usually cops. 

Enough now, you are making yourself look ridiculous. Nowhere have I suggested to do anything illegal. After December 6, 2018, with no money exchanged and all are 21 or over, it will be legal to share cannabis in Michigan, in a private location, period. I didn't realize that sharing test results was a crime, you know, publicly sharing the results, here on the forums. Get a grip dude.  

Similarly, I do not know you except for the fact that when I offer my opinion, when someone asks, you are the first to stomp all over it. The OP simply asked for other's opinions. Why could you not just let me offer mine? Apparently we are not allowed to have an opinion unless it is Restorium approved. Very sad, very sad indeed. I really hope others can see through all of these antics of yours. 

Don't be accusing anyone on these forums of being a cop unless you have a good foot to stand on. That is about the lowest of low. Accusations like that, with no footing, should be done in private, not on the public forums, that is twisted and evil. 

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5 minutes ago, GrowGoddess said:

 

Enough now, you are making yourself look ridiculous. Nowhere have I suggested to do anything illegal. After December 6, 2018, with no money exchanged and all are 21 or over, it will be legal to share cannabis in Michigan, in a private location, period. I didn't realize that sharing test results was a crime, you know, publicly sharing the results, here on the forums. Get a grip dude.  

Similarly, I do not know you except for the fact that when I offer my opinion, when someone asks, you are the first to stomp all over it. The OP simply asked for other's opinions. Why could you not just let me offer mine? Apparently we are not allowed to have an opinion unless it is Restorium approved. Very sad, very sad indeed. I really hope others can see through all of these antics of yours. 

Don't be accusing anyone on these forums of being a cop unless you have a good foot to stand on. That is about the lowest of low. Accusations like that, with no footing, should be done in private, not on the public forums, that is twisted and evil. 

Extraction is a crime in Michigan. You can't lure me into anything like an illegal extraction 'contest'. You are either stupid or a cop. Take your pick. 

All of my advice is hypothetical. But if I were to produce an extraction product to anyone I don't know, like you, it's going to be felony bait. I enjoy a super clean record because I use my head and stay away from felony bait. I would suggest you do the same or forget about ever being a real caregiver again, if that's what you do.

Funny how you would suggest doing one of the few things a Michigan caregiver can get in big trouble for. 

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Spoken like a true politician Resto, anything to make yourself look better. 


I did not suggest to make the oil in a group, I suggested to compare finished product, which we are allowed to posses and give away for that matter. 

Get a grip dude, and get over yourself. 

Sorry again GrassMonkey. If you would like more information, contact me privately. 

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No, you are not allowed to give away cannabis oil. It can only be given, by a caregiver, to a patient connected to them through the registry. Giving cannabis extract away to anyone else is illegal. Sorry, no extract parties for me with people I don't know are not cops. 

Thanks for providing solid examples of things not to do to help educate others. 

 

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23 hours ago, GrowGoddess said:

In my experience, it is much better to decarb after, with one exception, if the buds were already naturally decarbed. 

Decarbing before vaping, I do not recommend. Vaping oil that has been decarbed first will be more harsh and gag you, and most of the terpenes will be gone due to the heat decarbing process. Winterizing can smooth the hit, but also removes flavor, terpenes, and other medicinal properties. When ingesting winterized oil, it alters the buzz effects, for me, it is more visual. 

As far as grinding or leaving whole before solvent, that depends on your extraction method. I have never used one of those extracting machines, so I cannot comment on that process. I do everything by hand and leave the buds whole. My buds are bone dry, jarred, and placed in the freezer at least 2 days before extracting. I also put the solvent in the freezer so the temperature will be the same. When I add the solvent to the buds in the jar, they pretty much dissolve off the stems when I shake the jar. Then filter and continue the process. 

All in all, it boils down to personal preference. Try different methods, and stick with what you like. 

I have more detailed information about my extracting methods and experience with vaping oils in my blog. 

Awesome, thank you! Would love a link to your blogs if you had the time.

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6 minutes ago, GrassMonkey said:

I am using ethyl alcohol with extra craft Source One machine.

I watched the YouTube unboxing video. Looks good. The guy suggests a Buchner filter set up to make filtering quicker and easier. You can get all the parts for that on eBay. I use a seal-a-meal for a vacuum source.

You would want to make sure your cannabis is as dry as possible before the wash because the alcohol will pull water out of cannabis and that will/may end up in your oil.

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4 minutes ago, Restorium2 said:

I watched the YouTube unboxing video. Looks good. The guy suggests a Buchner filter set up to make filtering quicker and easier. You can get all the parts for that on eBay. I use a seal-a-meal for a vacuum source.

You would want to make sure your cannabis is as dry as possible before the wash because the alcohol will pull water out of cannabis and that will/may end up in your oil.

Okay! Great tip I would have never thought about drying out the medicine before adding the alcohol.

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Okay while we're at it, LOL, one more question that kind of popped up last night.

I have a patient who is requesting CBD oil for his anxiety. However I need to make sure he doesn't get high off of it as he will need it at work. I believe this is achieved by simply extracting the oil from the plant with the alcohol, then running it through the extraction machine? Then what I add a carrier oil to thin it back out? If so what should I use? And I understand as long as it's not heated from this point forward he will be getting CBDs but not thc's so it should not give him the high he doesn't want?

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