I’m back!!!

[Kingdiamond]

Well im adjusting  to two 1500 panels and don't want to fry my  girls so im thinking a light meter will help me better determine  where the panels should hang above  the top of the plants.

[semicaregiver]

I bought the hydrofarm hand held quantum par meter and found that there are a number of issues with trying to measure par.

First is the accuracy of the meter.  I saw online that the majority of par meters go for 300-500 and the hydro farm unit is 100-150.   At this point I am not confident in the accuracy.  My interest was in trying to come up with some objective decision point as to when my gavita bulbs need changing.    I measured 8 new ones and my 8 year old ones to create a baseline.    I also experimented with changing out the reflector (Gavita claims the aluminum gets so hot it oxidizes and needs to be changed with the bulb).  It made a slight difference.   The reason for my lack of confidence in the accuracy of the meter is I am getting readings in the 1500 to 1000 range and there is no reports of numbers that high in any of the literature.   That said I just want to compare new vs. old so "absolute accuracy was not a problem, but it would be nice.

The second issue with a hand held is positioning.  A slight tilt in your hand held probe yields significant differences in readings.  Also you want repeatable locations.   I ended up setting a series of screws in the ceiling at different distances from the bulb and mounting the probe on a stick (end of the stick fit over the screw) so that I was always in the same location for every measurement going forward.   Most of the magazine reviews you see of lamps use a grid that is laid on the floor and they then create a series of reading on the grid.   This is a nice lab approach, but I used the ceiling as my measuring point since I wanted to be able to measure with plants present and using the floor was just impractical.

Anyway, hope my personal experience helps with your plans going forward.

 

[Willy]

I have the hydro farm but it measures candles to watts. I love it ,, has a 10x feature for HID and 5x for low outputs. cost was 90.00 ebay. seems accurate for HID not sure it measures par but can likely be converted..

[Kingdiamond]

I bought a cheap unit to start out can always upgrade later.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DIGITAL-Color-ILLUMINANCE-LIGHT-METER-200000-LUX-PHOTOMETER-LUXMETER-Temperature/263794324833?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D1049e6600c174dae9577ec6d96a4d31d%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D263794324833%26itm%3D263794324833&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Aa59bd765-7902-11e9-9004-74dbd180ed12|parentrq%3Ac84f1aea16a0a9cd81e4e252ffc16415|iid%3A1

[Restorium2]

On 5/15/2019 at 9:28 PM, Kingdiamond said:

Well im adjusting  to two 1500 panels and don't want to fry my  girls so im thinking a light meter will help me better determine  where the panels should hang above  the top of the plants.

You can treat these like you would an air cooled 1000 HPS. Same distance to tops.

[Restorium2]

On 5/16/2019 at 10:41 AM, semicaregiver said:

I bought the hydrofarm hand held quantum par meter and found that there are a number of issues with trying to measure par.

First is the accuracy of the meter.  I saw online that the majority of par meters go for 300-500 and the hydro farm unit is 100-150.   At this point I am not confident in the accuracy.  My interest was in trying to come up with some objective decision point as to when my gavita bulbs need changing.    I measured 8 new ones and my 8 year old ones to create a baseline.    I also experimented with changing out the reflector (Gavita claims the aluminum gets so hot it oxidizes and needs to be changed with the bulb).  It made a slight difference.   The reason for my lack of confidence in the accuracy of the meter is I am getting readings in the 1500 to 1000 range and there is no reports of numbers that high in any of the literature.   That said I just want to compare new vs. old so "absolute accuracy was not a problem, but it would be nice.

The second issue with a hand held is positioning.  A slight tilt in your hand held probe yields significant differences in readings.  Also you want repeatable locations.   I ended up setting a series of screws in the ceiling at different distances from the bulb and mounting the probe on a stick (end of the stick fit over the screw) so that I was always in the same location for every measurement going forward.   Most of the magazine reviews you see of lamps use a grid that is laid on the floor and they then create a series of reading on the grid.   This is a nice lab approach, but I used the ceiling as my measuring point since I wanted to be able to measure with plants present and using the floor was just impractical.

Anyway, hope my personal experience helps with your plans going forward.

 

I have been using the hydrofarm PAR meter for almost a year now and it works perfectly.

These meters work for the experienced grower who understands how the lights they have been using work with the plants they have been growing.

The experienced grower has tried everything as far as light distance and plant growth with their HID lighting. They know what their plants like.

These meters put numbers to results so you can cross reference to new sources of lighting, like LED. 

Use your experience as a baseline and then put numbers to what has worked for you.

Write it all down as a reference and you will be able to switch lights without so much guess work.

 

[Highlander]

I just bought 4 Yehsence lights on Amazon (recommendation from Resto).  Cost was about $580, and the products should be at my door Friday.  Based on KD's and Resto's experience/recommendations, I'm very excited about this transition.  I'll give some updates as things progress.  If the new lights do what they are said to do, between lighting and AC costs, these LED lights will pay for themselves before labor day.

[blackhorse]

2 hours ago, Highlander said:

I just bought 4 Yehsence lights on Amazon (recommendation from Resto).  Cost was about $580, and the products should be at my door Friday.  Based on KD's and Resto's experience/recommendations, I'm very excited about this transition.  I'll give some updates as things progress.  If the new lights do what they are said to do, between lighting and AC costs, these LED lights will pay for themselves before labor day.

I was close to purchasing a Yehsence but shutting down the grow for summer. I will make a decision later on before winter after updates from you and others. Thanks

[Restorium2]

On 5/15/2019 at 9:28 PM, Kingdiamond said:

Well im adjusting  to two 1500 panels and don't want to fry my  girls so im thinking a light meter will help me better determine  where the panels should hang above  the top of the plants.

I'm finding that about 12" is perfect for when the buds are growing rapidly. 

The HEAT is GONE!!!! WOOHOO! 

Can't believe how cool my rooms are now. What a freakin' relief!!

[Kingdiamond]

I really like how instead of stretching they are bushing out im going to do one last run with my hoods at the same time im  flowering with the panels to get a finished weight comparison.

[Highlander]

Well, I received the 4 new lights on Friday and replaced my veg room lights.  (1,000w MH and 8-4' T5) over about 20-25 square feet with one Yehsense 1500.  (I usually only use 1,000w MH in my veg room, but at the moment, my perpetual grow is a bit heavier on the veg phase than usual)  I'm starting out with both the veg and bloom switches on because I have a hard time believing that just the veg option is enough light for my space.  Depending on growth rates and plant health (should be apparent within a few days) I might install a second light and then just run both on the veg switch in my veg room.  So far, things look fine.

My one complaint so far is that the power cord is very short and it appears that there was a miscommunication because I thought I'd be getting 220v cords.  I have some 220v cords I can use, but I'm going to need more length, so while I figure that out, I'm unable to use these in the flower room.  Bummer.  So I either have to find or make 220v extension cords or rewire my 220v (8 plug) switch to extend it closer to where the lights hang (which will be a pain).   Or, I could run them on 110v volt circuits because my amperage needs will be dropping about 75% and don't really need to be running lights at 220v at this time (if ever again).  No big deal.  I'll adapt.

So I have some decisions to make and work to do, but it's always fun to figure-out new equipment/technology for one's indoor garden.  The continual learning/improvement is part of what makes this so much fun.

I appreciate Resto and KD taking the plunge and reporting back to the community.  I used LEDs years ago with poor success and would not have gone back had they not shared their experience.  If/when these lights work as promised, consider this:  I bought the four Yehsence lights on Amazon for just under $600.  I signed-up for a new Amazon credit account, so I'm getting 6 months with no payments and no interest.  By my calculations, my electricity savings on lights alone will be about $200/month.  That doesn't include the probably additional $100/month saved by less need for AC and not having to run my RDWC chillers as much.  So, I'll have saved about $1,800 by the time I even have to pay for these lights.  It's almost like Amazon is paying me $1,200 and giving me four new LED fixtures for free.

It's getting hard to see the downside.  But, the harvests will tell all.  Like KD, I'll probably still run some HPS in flower during this transition.  

 

[semicaregiver]

I am looking forward to seeing how this works out for everyone.    

What makes this particularly interesting is the price point.   I have read lots of forums and talked to many growers over the years and I came to the conclusion that the cost of the light units was too  high to justify switching.  This seemed particularly crucial when all of the suppliers have only been in business for a couple of years and there was no warm fuzzy feeling that they will still be in business two or three years from now when I might need some repairs to their proprietary circuit boards or leds.   Now at a cost of less than $150 they are the price of two HPS bulbs.   

One thing that puzzles me is the two price points in the marketplace.   You have Yehsense and several other suppliers at around $150 and then you have another group at $500-1,000 for units that purport to have roughly the same input wattage and output par.   Is the manufacturing quality the difference?  Cheap led's that will go bad sooner?   Corners cut on cooling design?  

[Restorium2]

15 hours ago, Highlander said:

Well, I received the 4 new lights on Friday and replaced my veg room lights.  (1,000w MH and 8-4' T5) over about 20-25 square feet with one Yehsense 1500.  (I usually only use 1,000w MH in my veg room, but at the moment, my perpetual grow is a bit heavier on the veg phase than usual)  I'm starting out with both the veg and bloom switches on because I have a hard time believing that just the veg option is enough light for my space.  Depending on growth rates and plant health (should be apparent within a few days) I might install a second light and then just run both on the veg switch in my veg room.  So far, things look fine.

My one complaint so far is that the power cord is very short and it appears that there was a miscommunication because I thought I'd be getting 220v cords.  I have some 220v cords I can use, but I'm going to need more length, so while I figure that out, I'm unable to use these in the flower room.  Bummer.  So I either have to find or make 220v extension cords or rewire my 220v (8 plug) switch to extend it closer to where the lights hang (which will be a pain).   Or, I could run them on 110v volt circuits because my amperage needs will be dropping about 75% and don't really need to be running lights at 220v at this time (if ever again).  No big deal.  I'll adapt.

So I have some decisions to make and work to do, but it's always fun to figure-out new equipment/technology for one's indoor garden.  The continual learning/improvement is part of what makes this so much fun.

I appreciate Resto and KD taking the plunge and reporting back to the community.  I used LEDs years ago with poor success and would not have gone back had they not shared their experience.  If/when these lights work as promised, consider this:  I bought the four Yehsence lights on Amazon for just under $600.  I signed-up for a new Amazon credit account, so I'm getting 6 months with no payments and no interest.  By my calculations, my electricity savings on lights alone will be about $200/month.  That doesn't include the probably additional $100/month saved by less need for AC and not having to run my RDWC chillers as much.  So, I'll have saved about $1,800 by the time I even have to pay for these lights.  It's almost like Amazon is paying me $1,200 and giving me four new LED fixtures for free.

It's getting hard to see the downside.  But, the harvests will tell all.  Like KD, I'll probably still run some HPS in flower during this transition.  

 

Use 110. 220 is a thing of the past. One day you will just shake your head when you think about using 220 for plant lights. Crazy. 

 

[Restorium2]

14 hours ago, semicaregiver said:

I am looking forward to seeing how this works out for everyone.    

What makes this particularly interesting is the price point.   I have read lots of forums and talked to many growers over the years and I came to the conclusion that the cost of the light units was too  high to justify switching.  This seemed particularly crucial when all of the suppliers have only been in business for a couple of years and there was no warm fuzzy feeling that they will still be in business two or three years from now when I might need some repairs to their proprietary circuit boards or leds.   Now at a cost of less than $150 they are the price of two HPS bulbs.   

One thing that puzzles me is the two price points in the marketplace.   You have Yehsense and several other suppliers at around $150 and then you have another group at $500-1,000 for units that purport to have roughly the same input wattage and output par.   Is the manufacturing quality the difference?  Cheap led's that will go bad sooner?   Corners cut on cooling design?  

They are already working out. The testing is done and they got an A+. I'm coming up to my 3rd harvest now. They have better cooling with fans than the expensive ones that just use heat sinks. 

I think you should be asking why the expensive ones are expensive rather than asking why the cheap ones are cheap. 

You said that before the cost was too high to justify switching. I was there. Now what should be said is the cost is so low and the advantages so high that keeping the dinosaur lights of the past isn't justified. 

 

 

[Restorium2]

When new technology comes out we always have these transition periods where we ask ourselves questions:

Why do I need a computer?

Why do I need a cell phone?

Why do I need to switch to LED lights?

Why do I need to augment my intelligence with AI?

How is that guy winning millions on Jeopardy and making it look so easy? lol

 

[semicaregiver]

Resto,   You say the results are in.   Is there another thread that has results?

I see back in March posters, including yourself were reporting results on $800-1,500 units, but nothing on the bargain units.  I see you rec'c that people consider buying the Yehsence units, but no grow test results were reported, just mfg. par claims.    At the same time you were rec'c that folks purchase the Yehsence you were posting how you would like to build a unit that cost $420 in parts.   

My post was a reflection on the information that is in this thread, i.e. there are wonderful results reported for units in the $800-1,500 range.  I am looking forward to Highlander's actual results from growing with the Yehsence.  

 

[Restorium2]

8 hours ago, semicaregiver said:

Resto,   You say the results are in.   Is there another thread that has results?

I see back in March posters, including yourself were reporting results on $800-1,500 units, but nothing on the bargain units.  I see you rec'c that people consider buying the Yehsence units, but no grow test results were reported, just mfg. par claims.    At the same time you were rec'c that folks purchase the Yehsence you were posting how you would like to build a unit that cost $420 in parts.   

My post was a reflection on the information that is in this thread, i.e. there are wonderful results reported for units in the $800-1,500 range.  I am looking forward to Highlander's actual results from growing with the Yehsence.  

 

I wouldn't have recommended them if I hadn't tried them myself first. I have been using the Yehsense 1500's for two complete grows now. They both went better than with 1000 HPS lights. Better buds. More buds. Less heat. Less electricity. No malfunctions. My third grow is half way done and it looks great also. I'm just starting to really enjoy the lack of heat. 

Nothing to wonder about anymore. The results are in. 

 

[Kingdiamond]

My plants are growing like crazy under the veg lights in the Yehsense panels  im seeing way more bud sites then with the T-5  fixtures and the  lack of heat in my veg room is crazy  cool as a cucumber in there .

[Restorium2]

10 hours ago, Kingdiamond said:

My plants are growing like crazy under the veg lights in the Yehsense panels  im seeing way more bud sites then with the T-5  fixtures and the  lack of heat in my veg room is crazy  cool as a cucumber in there .

Even the color of the growth is better. Nice rich dark green. When you start budding you get some red hairs early on. Just so much healthier plants from these cheap lights. It's a blessing! I'm really happy something I brought to the table here is working so good. I feel really good about it. No one can shoot it down. It's a solid positive advancement we can share. 

[Restorium2]

22 hours ago, semicaregiver said:

Resto,   You say the results are in.   Is there another thread that has results?

I see back in March posters, including yourself were reporting results on $800-1,500 units, but nothing on the bargain units.  I see you rec'c that people consider buying the Yehsence units, but no grow test results were reported, just mfg. par claims.    At the same time you were rec'c that folks purchase the Yehsence you were posting how you would like to build a unit that cost $420 in parts.   

My post was a reflection on the information that is in this thread, i.e. there are wonderful results reported for units in the $800-1,500 range.  I am looking forward to Highlander's actual results from growing with the Yehsence.  

 

What I did was research all the new LEDs. Read reports about them. Went to the best plant store in Michigan and ask the people who hang out there. The owner has tried all the expensive lights. Picked his brain. 

Then I bought one cheap one. Did one grow side by side with a 1000 HPS. The plants under the cheap LED were better. 

So then I delved into the cheap LED market and found one that had good reviews and I could actually talk with a rep through emails.

Ran a grow with it and saw that it was as good as the other cheap one I had. 

Then I figured out how cheaply I could build an expensive one to have a comparison. I can build the best light out there for $420. That was just for comparison. 

So if you don't like cheap and want to have the best you can spend $420 and build an expensive one.

Or you can just throw money at it and spend $1500 on an expensive one. 

[semicaregiver]

Resto,  Thanks for the detailed reply.   I am impressed by your observations regarding bloom results.    My biggest challenge indoors has been heat removal in the bloom room.   Each of my blooms are under a pair of 750w gavita's.   At $150/panel, it would certainly be worth picking up three of the Yehsense panels and testing how they compare.  

[Restorium2]

This 1000 also works great if you want a little smaller one that's even cheaper.

https://www.amazon.com/iPlantop-Growing-Spectrum-Adjustable-Replace/dp/B07F872N6Z/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=iplantop+100&qid=1559046468&s=gateway&sr=8-1

[Wild Bill]

I just finished my first complete LED grow. I have never had healthier plants. The indicas grew like a shrubbery. The next grow I'll have to do some pruning. One of the plants was so dense I had to harvest in layers. The tops kept the middle of the plant from getting any light so I harvested them then got a second, smaller harvest from the bottom of the plant.

[Kingdiamond]

3 hours ago, Wild Bill said:

I just finished my first complete LED grow. I have never had healthier plants. The indicas grew like a shrubbery. The next grow I'll have to do some pruning. One of the plants was so dense I had to harvest in layers. The tops kept the middle of the plant from getting any light so I harvested them then got a second, smaller harvest from the bottom of the plant.

What leds did you use size ?

[Wild Bill]

On 5/28/2019 at 2:40 PM, Kingdiamond said:

What leds did you use size ?

Equivalent to 6500 wat for veg and 1000 watt for flower.