Caregivers Overage Path To Market

[shishka]

For what it’s worth when I mention PC’s in this thread I’ve been talking strictly about licensed MMFLA shops. Not temporary operators, not unlicensed, not recreational ect. 

Strictly those that have an actual license. Price is up around 4 now for top shelf wholesale. Most licensed shops don’t even have flower on any shelf. 

[Restorium2]

1 hour ago, shishka said:

For what it’s worth when I mention PC’s in this thread I’ve been talking strictly about licensed MMFLA shops. Not temporary operators, not unlicensed, not recreational ect. 

Strictly those that have an actual license. Price is up around 4 now for top shelf wholesale. Most licensed shops don’t even have flower on any shelf. 

You say "price is up around'. Where? You are very vague.

I'll be specific;

Here in Bay City there are about 20 licensed dispensaries.

The one I went to last was Dispo.

Twice in the last 5 days.

Nice flower for $200 an ounce.

They have plenty.

They are all close to the same around here.

Now where are you describing?

[Restorium2]

5 hours ago, shishka said:

For what it’s worth when I mention PC’s in this thread I’ve been talking strictly about licensed MMFLA shops. Not temporary operators, not unlicensed, not recreational ect. 

Strictly those that have an actual license. Price is up around 4 now for top shelf wholesale. Most licensed shops don’t even have flower on any shelf. 

Seriously, where are these dispensaries with empty shelves?

 

[Restorium2]

16 hours ago, shishka said:

For what it’s worth when I mention PC’s in this thread I’ve been talking strictly about licensed MMFLA shops. Not temporary operators, not unlicensed, not recreational ect. 

Strictly those that have an actual license. Price is up around 4 now for top shelf wholesale. Most licensed shops don’t even have flower on any shelf. 

So if I hadn't been to the dispensary I would think this is true. I would think a whole lota stuff you said was true that isn't. 

What I don't understand is how you get so far away from reality in my area. 

I'm truthfully expressing what I actually find. Then I post it.

No funny stuff dropped and then run and hide. 

Why don't you just square up with reality and post something a little less cryptic?

Then we could sort it out without guessing. 

[semicaregiver]

There may be an answer to this question that makes both Slappy and Resto correct.

The MRA held a public meeting this AM in Detroit..

https://www.facebook.com/michiganLARA/videos/2396936093721234/?__xts__[0]=68.ARALiqRY-bFdXvzXwUA7kAbpgK5Ed2OI47jgCLCsQhBLiVqNTACYmeKICJWONqUXE0E0hFoa6Jfr97GifMlbyolqWEHMwlhKj-V2965W48jOtorz_gbos8UwtUky1wTEpXxoXYqm2hVytC10_sDLNockHIlt6SqhMlGspOHGA9ouGL8FndMer2v7spvGNaaKH7SugrsRh69JKt8XVBm7ZD6ItdQUA0KJte-vB29g589CcyGw8ypyMsK07TIJ2VOF078tWLakIJzJjLeC0v2ImHp82yldQO0hVCr8nxnufEjiPfclqMDUgV9A7Yt22uydF9-iyOKBFshjkp9fHPH_C6AdzYEsRG-GLYfk1o_MOSeaSCRBqM6bnRq1YxLTYFWOAbc&__tn__=-R

During that meeting a dispensary owner testified that there was no flower available.   Also a new dispensary, Gage, had been promoting their grand opening in Ferndale this weekend, but suddenly announced ( Metro Times) that they were delaying the opening due to "limited supplies".  

The dispensary owner testified that flower was all staying internal to groups that owned both grow license and retail or in other cases product had been pre-purchased by dispensaries, i.e. futures contracts.   If you do not fall into one of those two groups, no flower for you w/o paying way too much.   

As a patient/caregiver I do not think in terms of futures contracts, although in a way that is what the relationship with our patients could be described as.  The reality is futures contracts in the commercial market is a big thing.   If you follow the metrics out of Colorado, they regularly report futures pricing.   One might think of this as some sort of monopoly play, but the reality is it is standard agricultural practice.

Anyway, just a thought after watching the hearing.

[Restorium2]

Yeah. So someone who listened in on a court case thinks they know what's happening because of testimony. That would explain it.

Anyone wants a little taste of reality just go on weed maps. Look up Dispo and the other dispensaries in Bay City.

Give em a call. They will tell you they have plenty at $200 an ounce.

Come on down and get you some of that reality after hearing lies in court. 

 

[Restorium2]

5 hours ago, semicaregiver said:

There may be an answer to this question that makes both Slappy and Resto correct.

The MRA held a public meeting this AM in Detroit..

https://www.facebook.com/michiganLARA/videos/2396936093721234/?__xts__[0]=68.ARALiqRY-bFdXvzXwUA7kAbpgK5Ed2OI47jgCLCsQhBLiVqNTACYmeKICJWONqUXE0E0hFoa6Jfr97GifMlbyolqWEHMwlhKj-V2965W48jOtorz_gbos8UwtUky1wTEpXxoXYqm2hVytC10_sDLNockHIlt6SqhMlGspOHGA9ouGL8FndMer2v7spvGNaaKH7SugrsRh69JKt8XVBm7ZD6ItdQUA0KJte-vB29g589CcyGw8ypyMsK07TIJ2VOF078tWLakIJzJjLeC0v2ImHp82yldQO0hVCr8nxnufEjiPfclqMDUgV9A7Yt22uydF9-iyOKBFshjkp9fHPH_C6AdzYEsRG-GLYfk1o_MOSeaSCRBqM6bnRq1YxLTYFWOAbc&__tn__=-R

During that meeting a dispensary owner testified that there was no flower available.   Also a new dispensary, Gage, had been promoting their grand opening in Ferndale this weekend, but suddenly announced ( Metro Times) that they were delaying the opening due to "limited supplies".  

The dispensary owner testified that flower was all staying internal to groups that owned both grow license and retail or in other cases product had been pre-purchased by dispensaries, i.e. futures contracts.   If you do not fall into one of those two groups, no flower for you w/o paying way too much.   

As a patient/caregiver I do not think in terms of futures contracts, although in a way that is what the relationship with our patients could be described as.  The reality is futures contracts in the commercial market is a big thing.   If you follow the metrics out of Colorado, they regularly report futures pricing.   One might think of this as some sort of monopoly play, but the reality is it is standard agricultural practice.

Anyway, just a thought after watching the hearing.

The whole thing is falling into place now with the missing pieces.

The irony is that Gage has a brand new dispensary in Bay City also. Yet to open the doors. Right amongst the hoard of other dispensaries that have plenty of buds on the shelves.

It seems to me that Gage had a master plan of selling his own supply.

Then BMMR started raiding all the dispensaries that were selling their own supply.

It left Gage right on the edge of opening and losing everything.

So now he's trying to somehow be able to say that his supply needs to be used to keep up with demand because nobody has anything on their shelves. 

It all fits. 

[Slappy]

So regarding flower failing testing...does this mean I shouldn't have sex in the flower room? Will I fail testing for that? Seriously. Because sometimes it's cooler in the flower room than the rest of the house, and I'm all like "why not?" LOL.

[Restorium2]

Fresh news;

The state caved and let Dispo have all their stuff back that they took. Letting them buy from caregivers again.

Now the ounces are $100 on up. Fully stocked.

The state even let Dispo resume their text message menu.

Things are booming here again.

Come on down.

[semicaregiver]

1 hour ago, Restorium2 said:

Fresh news;

The state caved and let Dispo have all their stuff back that they took. Letting them buy from caregivers again.

Now the ounces are $100 on up. Fully stocked.

The state even let Dispo resume their text message menu.

Things are booming here again.

Come on down.

wtf???   Based on the published rules that BMR has your first report of confiscation sounded like something they would do.   Did Dispo explain the reversal?

[Restorium2]

1 hour ago, semicaregiver said:

wtf???   Based on the published rules that BMR has your first report of confiscation sounded like something they would do.   Did Dispo explain the reversal?

Crazy right?

I haven't been in there to get the full scoop yet. Maybe later on today or tomorrow.

All a person can think is that Dispo won in court, got thier stuff back, and got a cease and desist order from the judge. 

BMMR is full of ex sheriffs and other law enforcement folks that are used to being bullies.

They probably stepped way beyond there positions now with the new laws and rules.

I think they will need to realize they can't just bust in and take stuff without proper back up in court.

Times have changed and enforcement needs to change as the laws change.

Dispo hasn't recovered yet because I see their parking lot is not full.

I bet they will spank BMMR for that. They lost a lot of business under what seems to be false pretenses. 

Edited August 30, 2019 by Restorium2

[Restorium2]

They were a little tight lipped about it today.

Bought a $125 ounce that was decent.

Top shelf was $200.

[shishka]

From MLive today. 

$249 per ounce WHOLESALE. 

$3984 per pound WHOLESALE. 

 

[shishka]

[shishka]

[Restorium2]

Reality Check.

1st hand report from a real consumer who buys at dispensaries;

Bay City, Michigan.

Dispo Dispensary.

Multiple top shelf strains for $200 retail.

[shishka]

Gonna continue for some time. 

New barn being built right now. 

Welcome to the new quasi regulated grey market woohoo!!!

[Restorium2]

Times, they are a changing …….

I'm going for 'light running and flexible to meet the demands of today's constantly changing market'.

Rolling with the changes. lol

[semicaregiver]

Adding to Shishka's post from Mlive...

 

With little funding or political will, Michigan police let black market weed slide

By Amy Biolchini | abiolch1@mlive.com

Michigan State Police Lt. Chris Hawkins knows where the illegal weed is.

He's sent undercover police officers to dispensaries, who have bought "medical" marijuana without having to show patient registration cards or any form of I.D.

Will he go after the people who sold the cops weed? Probably not.

Hawkins, who is in charge of the state police’s Marihuana and Tobacco Investigation Section, said his department has limited resources to address black market marijuana.

"We want to try to focus our resources in areas where we will obtain criminal charges and prosecution," Hawkins said.

Fortunately for most of the brick-and-mortar criminal enterprises in the state, they’re located in counties where prosecutors aren’t hard on weed, Hawkins said.

And so the police let it slide. The issue is rampant.

"We're literally seeing hundreds of businesses that have opened up across the state and sell recreational marijuana without a license," Hawkins said.

Michigan still has 30 unlicensed pot shops

About 30 unlicensed medical marijuana pot shops are still operational in Michigan.

It’s caught the attention of both Marijuana Regulatory Agency Director Andrew Brisbo and Attorney General Dana Nessel, who had a meeting about illegal operators.

“We talked about, at some point we really have to start coming down on those who are operating illegally. Just the same way we would, by the way, if you were selling cigarettes illegally. Just the same way we would if you had manufactured moonshine in your bathtub, and nobody had tested that to find out if it was safe, and you didn’t have a license to sell it,” Nessel said of her conversation with Brisbo. “So, at some point, you know, that’s going to be part of the function of our office is to make certain that the laws are enforced and that it’s properly regulated.”

The Marijuana Regulatory Agency responded to questions from MLive with the following statement: “The MRA cooperates closely with our law enforcement partners -- particularly the Michigan State Police -- and will continue to forward on complaints and information related to unlawful operations. We believe the goals of the MRA, law enforcement, and the regulated marijuana industry are the same -- reduce the black market so that consumers are safe and legal businesses are successful.”

Much of the marijuana on the black market is coming from patients or caregivers that have grown too much marijuana for their own needs, Hawkins said. A 2008 law allows caregivers to grow up to 12 plants per up to five patients -- a total of 72 plants.

Since the regulated medical marijuana market launched in late 2018, caregivers have been selling their overages directly to licensed provisioning centers. State regulators allowed it to happen by telling businesses the practice would not put their state license in jeopardy.

“Growers would rather sell to a provisioning center than to a guy on the street. It’s safer,” said a Metro Detroit caregiver who MLive is keeping anonymous, as he sells marijuana illegally on the black market.

That practice ended this May due to state intervention, though caregiver marijuana is still dominating the regulated market: 19 percent of all of the flower sold in June was grown at a licensed facility, according to state figures.

Michigan’s legal medical marijuana market remains dominated by illegal product

Seven percent of the flower sold by licensed provisioning centers in the last six months has been grown by licensed businesses.

Now caregivers can only sell their product to licensed growers or processing facilities.

But to caregivers, the black market is still more lucrative -- and easier to deal with.

The Metro Detroit caregiver said a licensed Ann Arbor business told him it would take five weeks to complete a sale.

“Five weeks? I could sell it in five minutes,” the caregiver said, explaining he has unlicensed dispensaries and unlicensed delivery drivers asking for his products.

Since the adult-use legalization law took effect in December 2018, the caregiver said demand has skyrocketed, the supply has shrunken and prices have gone up across the board.

As licensed medical marijuana provisioning centers are charging higher prices for their products to cover the costs of mandatory testing and regulatory fees, black market operators like the Metro Detroit caregiver are raising their prices as well. He’s now making 25 percent more on his top-tier indoor-grown weed, and is making double on his mid-grade quality greenhouse-grown product.

It's not just brick-and-mortar dispensaries operating outside the bounds of the law. Illegal delivery drivers cruise Michigan streets daily; their activities broadcast for all to see online through the website Weedmaps.

Medical marijuana businesses -- both legitimate and illegitimate -- pay to list their inventory on Weedmaps. Some sellers have been offering home delivery for months, long before state officials were able to issue any official licenses.

Weedmaps declined to comment for this story, but the company has not let the Michigan market go unnoticed: highway corridors across the state were peppered with Weedmaps billboards this spring.

The state officials who are in charge of licensing medical marijuana businesses and legitimate home delivery drivers won't comment on Weedmaps, as it's not an entity they regulate. Hawkins and the MSP know about them too, but can't do much.

"The resources we have to address black market unlicensed marijuana are very limited," Hawkins said.

Medical marijuana home delivery now available in Michigan

Three provisioning centers in Detroit and Portage are now licensed to provide home delivery.

To licensed medical marijuana businesses who have paid tens of thousands of dollars to play by the rules, action can’t come soon enough.

"We work with LARA inspectors, we work with the state police, we work with the regulators. Our compliance is perfect," said Stuart Carter, owner of the licensed medical marijuana provisioning center Utopia Gardens in Detroit. "Yet we're seeing a downturn in our sales. For every dispensary, there's four illegal delivery services."

Carter said he's tallied up more than 200 unlicensed delivery drivers advertising on Weedmaps -- most of which operate in metro Detroit. Unlicensed delivery services offer a bigger menu of products -- which could come from anywhere -- and none of it is tested, taxed or tracked by the state.

"They are the 800-pound gorilla in the room," Carter said of Weedmaps. "Anyone who wants to do business in the industry has to do business with them."

That includes Carter's Utopia Gardens. He pays $15,000 a year to advertise his business on the website.

Though Utopia Gardens and several other provisioning centers have launched their own state-licensed home delivery service for medical marijuana, Carter said it’s not enough to stop Weedmaps. Carter said he’s working with lobbyists to push for legislation similar to a bill that has passed the California House and is now before its Senate.

Faced with their own influx of illegal delivery drivers working through Weedmaps, California lawmakers put forward a bill that would require anyone advertising marijuana sales to include the state license number for the establishment it's connected to -- and face a fine of $2,500 per violation per day.

Carter said passing a similar law in Michigan would give authorities something concrete to enforce.

Weedmaps has previously skirted California authorities. The site claims its activities are protected under a section of the Communications Decency Act -- a clause that protects websites like Facebook from being liable for what users post.

With or without Weedmaps, the black market in Michigan would find a way.

"I'm not aware of any state that has legalized and commercialized recreational or adult use that has made a claim that it has eliminated or even diminished their black market," Hawkins said. "In some cases it's even grown."

That doesn’t mean police are doing nothing. Hawkins said his officers are investigating a recreational marijuana “gifting” scheme at the request of a county prosecutor. Giving marijuana as a gift is legal in Michigan, but it’s not legal to accept any form of remuneration. Some entrepreneurs have tried to skirt the law by selling unrelated items like T-shirts and chocolate with gifts of weed.

Many are hopeful that once the regulated market for medical and recreational marijuana is fully functional, the black market will diminish. But that will take enforcement -- and time.

“I don’t know how the licensed industry survives when there’s a thriving black market where marijuana can be sold untested,” Hawkins said.

-- Amy Biolchini is the marijuana beat reporter for MLive. Contact her with questions, tips or comments at abiolch1@mlive.com. Reporter Emily Lawler contributed to this story. Read more from MLive about medical and recreational marijuana.

Vi

[Restorium2]

Reality again here;

The best dispensaries NEVER sell to anyone without a card. EVERYONE has to qualify.

Try not to fall for the ever continuing propaganda.

Sure, cops can find rats and scum bag operations.

And that's who they will always talk about to the public.

While the rest of us take the high road after all these years of being cut down. We still just take the high road. Because that's what works for your soul. God loves us and cannabis.

[shishka]

The reality is it’s the wild f’ing west out here. 

Sure no licensed business is going to risk revocation for a sale. But, unlicensed delivery services don’t have much to lose as the state just can’t catch them all. 

Myself, I’d rather continue to feed the licensed shops because as long as the state allows it it would be darn hard for a prosecutor to get a conviction for that if they even wanted to bother taking it to trial. 

When the state says “we need caregiver product to keep patients access open” I’m here saying “at your service!”

I mean it’s the least I can do to try to help the patients of Michigan continue to get quality clean flower. 

[Restorium2]

One thing that cannot be denied is that making marijuana legal hasn't created any demand, however it has increased supply 100 fold.

That new supply of all those 12 trees per yard is either going to hit the market or it's going to end that consumer's interested in buying anything for a very long time. 

Anyone making plans to up their production, make a large investment in production, at a time when demand is staying constant and supply all across the board is increasing, is making a very risky choice. 

To put it another way, the law made it a lot easier for most marijuana users to be self sufficient and to silently help others from having to buy it retail. That's basic business sense when it comes to any commodity. Supply and demand. 

[Restorium2]

8 hours ago, shishka said:

The reality is it’s the wild f’ing west out here. 

Sure no licensed business is going to risk revocation for a sale. But, unlicensed delivery services don’t have much to lose as the state just can’t catch them all. 

Myself, I’d rather continue to feed the licensed shops because as long as the state allows it it would be darn hard for a prosecutor to get a conviction for that if they even wanted to bother taking it to trial. 

When the state says “we need caregiver product to keep patients access open” I’m here saying “at your service!”

I mean it’s the least I can do to try to help the patients of Michigan continue to get quality clean flower. 

Makes sense. That's why you keep lying here about there being no supply. You somehow think that you can portray some kind of false reality that will help convince the state that they need you. Just like the dispensary owner who lied in court so he could sell his own 'caregiver' product. Bad ideas all around I think.

[AndrewRogers]

I wouldn't start a marijuana business these days, because there is already enough of it on the market, and there is a big chance that I could lose my money. I guess it always comes down to the budget you have and how much are you willing to invest in this, because big corporations usually succeed just because of the financial power that they have, while smaller businesses such as Venice Beach Cannabis Dispensary, which have less financial capacity might need to have a combination between fleur and good management to succeed in a highly-competitive market where the customers are demanding more and more every single day.

Edited January 27, 2021 by AndrewRogers

[Kingdiamond]

22 hours ago, AndrewRogers said:

I wouldn't start a marijuana business these days, because there is already enough of it on the market, and there is a big chance that I could lose my money.

That is not really true there will always be a demand for cannabis in a over saturated market you just have to   undercut your competition by price and not try to make your retirement off of one sale.