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16 hours ago, glued gorilla said:

As i said that is how i do it, but more for space and time saving.  I have done both, and a wet trim with a perfect dry can come close. A dry trim will always have an edge on aroma and smoothness though. If you have time and space, and care about every little bit of improvement, dry trim is the way.

Wet trim for the win if you have limited space, and want to get it done a little faster!

I have to say you have failed at wet trimming. It's the only reason you think dry trimming is better. 

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Like when you cut your finger and the cut releases blood back into your body? The chlorophyll is definitely what causes the grass smell but it is in every green or yellow cell in the plant. It ma

I think you are not understanding the difference here. The only difference is you take the leaves off sooner with wet trimming. Please explain how leaving the leaves on a little longer could help

I prefer wet trimming and hang for about 7 days, then jar up. Open jars daily for another week or two.  When I cut the buds off and put on drying rack, they are dry in 4 days at 50% humidity.

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Yes thanks again everyone👍 Today I will jar the bud with 1 boveda pak per jar. I believe this is a 2 week process. Cracking the jar twice a day for the first week, once a day the second. I appreciate how I am learning everyone’s different techniques now so when I get set up with a nice indoor setup, I will have a nice foundation. “Knowledge is priceless”

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Exactly. Master different techniques. You can get exactly the same results from wet trimming as dry trimming. It's just easier to take the leaves and leaf tips off before they curl in. The more leaf material gone the better. Science will tell you that. The leaves hold a higher percentage of waxes and sugars that add harshness when smoked and vaped. This can be proven scientifically by careful extraction of different samples and observation of the resultant. 

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On 10/18/2020 at 9:26 AM, Restorium2 said:

I have to say you have failed at wet trimming. It's the only reason you think dry trimming is better. 

I wet trim, and come out with great product. I have also dry trimmed several times, and wheather or not you choose to believe it, dry trim does produce a better product. 

For me is it worth it for the small improvement? No. But, it is worth noting to a new grower. Aroma is the biggest difference, dry trim will always carry a better aroma, even with a less than perfect cure after dry.

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9 hours ago, glued gorilla said:

I wet trim, and come out with great product. I have also dry trimmed several times, and wheather or not you choose to believe it, dry trim does produce a better product. 

For me is it worth it for the small improvement? No. But, it is worth noting to a new grower. Aroma is the biggest difference, dry trim will always carry a better aroma, even with a less than perfect cure after dry.

I think you are not understanding the difference here. The only difference is you take the leaves off sooner with wet trimming.

Please explain how leaving the leaves on a little longer could help with a cure?

I'm a science guy and I'm always looking to learn things and the mechanisms behind it.

You said you want to make sure 'the new grower' gets the right info.

I'm an old grower since 1979. I've dried cannabis every way you can think of, however, there's always something to learn.  

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5 hours ago, Restorium2 said:

I think you are not understanding the difference here. The only difference is you take the leaves off sooner with wet trimming.

Please explain how leaving the leaves on a little longer could help with a cure?

I'm a science guy and I'm always looking to learn things and the mechanisms behind it.

You said you want to make sure 'the new grower' gets the right info.

I'm an old grower since 1979. I've dried cannabis every way you can think of, however, there's always something to learn.  

The origanal post that concerned trimming, talked about bucking the buds during the wet trim. Leaving on the stalk gives a slower more even dry. The other point is that trimming wet will slightly bruise the weed damaging it. Do a side by side, there is a difference, as said, mostly aroma.

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18 hours ago, glued gorilla said:

The origanal post that concerned trimming, talked about bucking the buds during the wet trim. Leaving on the stalk gives a slower more even dry. The other point is that trimming wet will slightly bruise the weed damaging it. Do a side by side, there is a difference, as said, mostly aroma.

What I have observed is the longer you wait to trim the more trichs you knock off when you do it. In fact, this year I realized while trimming outdoor buds after a rain while they are extremely wet, my scissors didn't even get sticky. Leave the 'sticky' on the bud! The wetter the better.

This 'wet bruising' you speak of, never seen it. A bud is much more resilient when it's fresh and wet. As a bud gets drier it becomes more vulnerable to damage. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Restorium2 said:

What I have observed is the longer you wait to trim the more trichs you knock off when you do it. In fact, this year I realized while trimming outdoor buds after a rain while they are extremely wet, my scissors didn't even get sticky. Leave the 'sticky' on the bud! The wetter the better.

This 'wet bruising' you speak of, never seen it. A bud is much more resilient when it's fresh and wet. As a bud gets drier it becomes more vulnerable to damage. 

 

 

When you cut a leaf in the bud, it bleads clorophyl(sp?). This is the bruising i speak of. I may not know all the science, but i can 100% say that in my experience a dry trim produces beter aroma and a slightly better taste.

I think everyone should try both. If i only had to trim a plant or 2, i would always dry trim. I speak from personal experience and observation. I have not have been here since 1979, but i have been doing this for 20 years in some capacity.  If you try some dry, you will notice a better aroma. Pluck just fans before drying.

 

 

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I'm not sure that I follow your argument. What would lead you to say that a plant bleeds chlorophyll? Chlorophyll is the substance that gives the plant it's green color and is in all the cells. What would make that specific chemical leak out?

If this was the case wouldn't it be desirable? Since chlorophyll is the substance that gives the herb it's "grassy" flavor and odor wouldn't it be preferable to remove as much as possible.

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1 minute ago, Wild Bill said:

I'm not sure that I follow your argument. What would lead you to say that a plant bleeds chlorophyll? Chlorophyll is the substance that gives the plant it's green color and is in all the cells. What would make that specific chemical leak out?

If this was the case wouldn't it be desirable? Since chlorophyll is the substance that gives the herb it's "grassy" flavor and odor wouldn't it be preferable to remove as much as possible.

When you cut green leaves on a wet bud if you look closely you will see a small amount of wetness around the cut. This contains chlorophyll . This is releasing it into the bud, and is what causes the grassy smell that wet trimmed buds often have in the early stages of drying and curing. A dry trim will keep its smell through the process.

I am not wasting anymore time here. You are all stuck in your ways, and that is fine. But i am done beating a dead horse. 

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18 hours ago, glued gorilla said:

Expains both methods pros and cons.

Like i said, i choose wet for simplicity, but dry produces a better overall quality. I am not the only one who thinks this.

I watched the video. It doesn't back up your theory at all. All it says that comes remotely near your theory is that wet trimming would let you dry too quick if you are stupid enough to do that. Who would do that? No one here I bet. Don't do that. The video explains quite well how wet trimming could easily be superior to dry trimming.

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20 hours ago, glued gorilla said:

When you cut green leaves on a wet bud if you look closely you will see a small amount of wetness around the cut. This contains chlorophyll . This is releasing it into the bud, and is what causes the grassy smell that wet trimmed buds often have in the early stages of drying and curing. A dry trim will keep its smell through the process.

I am not wasting anymore time here. You are all stuck in your ways, and that is fine. But i am done beating a dead horse. 

Total unscientific analysis of something you 'think' is true but is easily proven false by science. 

The only 'ways' I'm stuck in/on is trying to understand others when they disagree with me. 

I've spent plenty of time trying to unravel your theory.

I'm willing to spend whatever time it takes, I'm patient. 

What I'm seeing here from you here in your writing is a desperate attempt at justifying lazy trimming because if you don't cut those close leaves off right away they curl in and are permanently part of the bud. That would not ever be a good thing. 

I'm not surprised you are tired of trying to defend a bad theory. There's no amount of time and writing that would prove it true and I think you are seeing that,  ducking out before you admit you are wrong.  It's better to be wrong than right in this because since you are wrong you could actually learn something if you listened to the science.

I find that most disagreements are between people who don't understand each other and/or the science behind things. We are a world divided by science and people ducking out before they learn anything. 

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After decades of trying every kind of curing for cannabis I have been perfecting the Cryo Cure:

 

Cryo Cure: perfecting the cannabis drying and curing process

10th March 2020
Cryo Cure: perfecting the cannabis drying and curing process

Cryo Cure CEO Tracee McAfee showcases the benefits of freeze drying in cannabis production.

For decades, freeze drying has been a long discussed, but never perfected, method for drying cannabis before curing. Supported by respected cannabis cultivation authorities such as Ed Rosenthal, freeze drying has been praised for its ability to preserve flower and reduce moisture content to reduce instances of mould and mildew.

But freeze drying has been a far from perfected method – until my partner Greg Baughman and I developed the patent pending Cryo Cure.

Our journey to perfect the cannabis drying and curing process began several years ago after admiring the healthy plants grown by Greg, who is a medical cannabis caregiver in the United States and now serves as President and Head of Cultivation at Cryo Cure. His flower was stunning: the trichomes glistening, the buds vibrant and heavy. I was disheartened to know that they would soon shrink and become unrecognisable shadows of their live plant selves. Was there a way to make it smokable without losing not just its beauty, but the integrity of the buds?

Drying and curing methods

This one-off thought opened a whole new world of drying and curing methodologies, in search of the one that contained the most promise to preserve cannabis flower in as close a state to fresh as possible. We bought a copy of Rosenthal’s Marijuana Grower’s Handbook, in which he extolled the virtues of freeze dried cannabis flower, calling it the best he ever had. Reading that book was our ‘eureka moment’. For someone as seasoned as Ed Rosenthal to endorse the freeze drying method, we knew there had to be something worthwhile to explore.

When we started to research the possibilities, Greg and I found the options to be few, far between, and woefully inadequate to produce consistent results. Many growers were experimenting with freeze drying units built for apple slices, not for the fragile and sensitive cannabis flower. Conditions inside the machines were so harsh the trichomes were snapping off, reducing the overall potency of the flower. The result was too dry, the bud crumbling in my hands. Plus, the machines themselves were not built to hold cannabis flower, squishing the buds in their narrow shelves. We learned the hard way that regular freeze drying units aren’t made for cannabis or hemp. That’s when Greg got to work tinkering with the settings.

After about a year of experimentation, Greg and I were comfortable enough to provide some of our ‘Cryo Cured’ flower to patients under Greg’s care in our home state of Michigan. The feedback was astonishing. Our patients couldn’t believe what they experienced. Not only were the flowers large, light, and a vivid green, but their medicine left them with an energetic feeling, one that I describe as ‘sparkly’ to any Cryo Cure newcomers.

The consumption experience was cough-less and non-irritating; one patient with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) was delighted that their medicine no longer caused bouts of painful coughing.

There was one big reason for the energetic high: the Cryo Cure process prevents the degradation of tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) into cannabinol (CBN), which causes the ‘couchlock’ effect. Greg and I have taken to calling Cryo Cured flower ‘live resin flower’, as our freeze drying process preserves freshness at its peak.

Cryo Cure

High THC cannabis and hemp flower dried and cured in a Cryo Cure machine has three hallmark traits:

  • No flower shrinkage. The visual difference is what typically grabs the attention of a grower, processor or consumer for the first time. Cannabis and hemp which has gone through the Cryo Cure process has no flower shrinkage and is vibrant green. The typical bud is at least double the size of flower which has been traditionally dried and cured;
  • No excess moisture. With Cryo Cure, the moisture content of each batch is brought down to between 8% and 12%, with settings that support moisture content as low as 0% to 1%; and
  • Trichome preservation. The potency of Cryo Cure flower is second to none. Lab reports consistently show heightened levels of THC and other cannabinoids and terpenes.

This is because the Cryo Cure process doesn’t break off the precious trichomes, which house cannabis and hemp’s cannabinoid content. The trichomes stay intact and beautiful.

Cryo Cure machines do not allow any part of the flower to go to waste. Greg and I made sure to include terpene harvesting as a setting in our machines, so these valuable compounds can be collected, saved, and added back into other products.

The low moisture settings on Cryo Cure machines increase processing yield as well. Water is the enemy of any kind of hydrocarbon processing such as butane or CO2 extraction. By putting biomass through the Cryo Cure process, the moisture content can make its way to ultra-low points, as low as 1% or an astonishing 0%, resulting in a dramatic increase in extraction yields.

Perhaps the biggest impact, though, is the time saved: Cryo Cure takes only 24 hours from harvest to completion, shaving an average of three weeks off the production timeline. That means product gets to dispensary shelves in record time. It is a game changer at every stage of the cannabis or hemp supply chain.

Currently, Cryo Cure offers two models for cannabis or hemp drying and curing: one which accommodates between 30lb and 60lb of material; and a second which accommodates between 600lb and 1,200lb. Each one is equipped with a built-in deep freezer, which freezes the cannabis to temperatures between -20°F and -30°F (approximately -29°C to -34°C).

As word travels about Cryo Cure, we’ve attracted some impressive endorsements from some of the cannabis industry’s leading figures, including High Times cultivation editor Danny Danko, who was so impressed with Cryo Cured flower that he introduced us to Ed Rosenthal himself. It was a true full circle moment for us to have the man who inspired our journey express support for Cryo Cure. Since then, cannabis advocate Rick Naya has also experienced Cryo Cure and endorsed our process and flower.

Gathering support from such legendary cannabis growers and advocates was not an easy feat, considering how much they have seen, tried and experienced over their decades in the cannabis space. To earn the respect of three of the cannabis industry’s heaviest hitters, you need to come to the table with something that’s better than great – and we have found that with Cryo Cure.

Tracee McAfee is the CEO of Cryo Cure, a cannabis drying and curing technology company which utilises the patent pending, freeze drying-based Cryo Cure process for cannabis and hemp flower. To learn more about Cryo Cure, including photos, comparisons, and lab reports for Cryo Cured flower, visit www.cryocure.com.

Tracee McAfee
CEO
Cryo Cure

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1 hour ago, Restorium2 said:

Total unscientific analysis of something you 'think' is true but is easily proven false by science. 

The only 'ways' I'm stuck in/on is trying to understand others when they disagree with me. 

I've spent plenty of time trying to unravel your theory.

I'm willing to spend whatever time it takes, I'm patient. 

What I'm seeing here from you here in your writing is a desperate attempt at justifying lazy trimming because if you don't cut those close leaves off right away they curl in and are permanently part of the bud. That would not ever be a good thing. 

I'm not surprised you are tired of trying to defend a bad theory. There's no amount of time and writing that would prove it true and I think you are seeing that,  ducking out before you admit you are wrong.  It's better to be wrong than right in this because since you are wrong you could actually learn something if you listened to the science.

I find that most disagreements are between people who don't understand each other and/or the science behind things. We are a world divided by science and people ducking out before they learn anything. 

Look man, if you do a side by side, you will notice a difference. Like i said, pluck fans first, then dry. I cant explain it all, but i can tell you most people i know have switched to dry trimming because of this difference.

If you are unwilling to see reality, i Can't help. Do some google searches, look at farms producing great quality, like Jungle Boys. They all dry trim.

This whole thing was just to get a noob to know there is a difference in quality, and it is worth trying.

I wet trim! It is easier and still produces quality. I am not knocking your way of doing things, so I don't even understand your need to argue.

 

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19 minutes ago, glued gorilla said:

Look man, if you do a side by side, you will notice a difference. Like i said, pluck fans first, then dry. I cant explain it all, but i can tell you most people i know have switched to dry trimming because of this difference.

If you are unwilling to see reality, i Can't help. Do some google searches, look at farms producing great quality, like Jungle Boys. They all dry trim.

This whole thing was just to get a noob to know there is a difference in quality, and it is worth trying.

I wet trim! It is easier and still produces quality. I am not knocking your way of doing things, so I don't even understand your need to argue.

 

That's where you went off the track, assuming I haven't tried most every way. Like I said, I've been growing since 1979. I've dried every which way. I observe and apply science as I learned in college long ago. 

People dry trim because they have to, not because they want to. Then they make excuses. 

I don't need to argue. What you call 'argue' I call research. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and used your 'opinion' in my research. Spent some time with you and your ideas. 

I suggest you read up on the cryo. 

 

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23 hours ago, glued gorilla said:

When you cut green leaves on a wet bud if you look closely you will see a small amount of wetness around the cut. This contains chlorophyll . This is releasing it into the bud, and is what causes the grassy smell that wet trimmed buds often have in the early stages of drying and curing.

Like when you cut your finger and the cut releases blood back into your body?

The chlorophyll is definitely what causes the grass smell but it is in every green or yellow cell in the plant. It may very well "leak" when you cut it but the amount that is released is negligible.

The chlorophyll decays over time. The process is hastened by the shorter days and cooler temperatures. This is why tree leaves change color in the fall. Some cannabis strains will take on red and purple hues when the temperature drops.

The Colombians adopted a practice in the 70's that made the chlorophyll decay before harvest. They would break the main stems but not sever them from the roots. Tarps would then be placed over the plants so they didn't receive any sunlight. The plant remained alive but would use up it's existing supply of chlorophyll and become yellow. The Colombian Gold and Red strains could then achieve the colors that they were known for.

I'm guessing you weren't around then but those strains tasted just like hash. Part of it was the strains themselves but much of it was from the lack of light and loss of chlorophyll just before harvest.

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I have my own cryo cure procedure that I have been perfecting for large crops, poundage. 

First you wet trim off the large leaves and the small leaf tips sticking out of the buds.

Then you place the buds on screens in a room with approximately 45 % humidity for two days or until you just start to feel the outside of the buds getting dry. 

Then you place the buds in jars in your freezer.

You can leave them like that for just about as long as you want to. It's an ultra slow cure. 

You have to be careful when you take the jars out of cold storage.

You must remove the buds from the jar immediately after removing them from the freezer so that the moisture collected on the inside of the jar doesn't melt and sog out your buds. 

 

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1 minute ago, blackhorse said:

I will try this drying technique on next harvest. Only a jar or two though.

After taking out of freezer, will I need to finish drying the buds?

Or do the buds slow dry while in freezer?

It depends on how long they are in the freezer.

They slowly dry and expel their moisture onto the glass. 

I have had jars come out of the freezer that need very little dry time because they were in there for a year. 

I take the buds out of the jar right away and lay them on a flat surface. Within a few minutes you will be able to tell how much more dry time they need. Most of the time the buds need some more drying. 

I found that the best part about this technique is you don't have to worry about mold. 

Once those pounds are in the freezer it's like you put them in the bank.

All the small buds get quick dried in a food dehydrator and made into oil. 

Then you are the grinning person sitting on a cannabis mountain!

And since you can keep what you grow on your 12 legal plants it's no limit legal hold em. 

Remember, you can only take 10 ounces out of your house at a time. 

 

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Just in case anyone is skeptical about what I wrote in the previous post about your cannabis limit.

Here's a published quote from the Detroit News where attorney Matt Abel advises:

Can I grow my own? By law, people can grow up to 12 marijuana plants per household, and if you grow your own, there's no limit to how much marijuana you can possess. The 12 plants should be indoors, or outside in a locked enclosure that is not easily visible from public areas. Growing on rental properties is subject to landlord approval.

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