All Inclusive Legal Contradiction Thread....

[BubbleBerryKush]

I notice while discussing with people all the intricate questions people have and some seem to contradict other laws (ei, ccw's), but since we have such a wonderful lawyer (thank you for all your help in the community and a wonderful podcast by the way) we might as well have as much info in one place.

 

so here are a few questions I have run across and cannot give people solid answers too.

 

1) Am i legally (MI state law of course) permitted to carry my licensed ccw weapon if I am also a MM patient?

 

2) How far away does my home need to be from certain types of buildings if I am a legal patient or caregiver (ei schools, churches)?

 

3) How much medicine am I permitted to carry on my person? what if I am a CG and I have multiple patients?

 

4) When is a plant a plant (ie, non rooted cutting, rooted clone, vegging plant, ect..)

 

5) If my medicine is cut down but not yet dry or cured can/will it used towards my personal limit if i were to get a visit from LEO?

 

6) If I have not harvested any finished product (medicine is still on the branch and in soil), and I was visited by LEO, could/would they use wet weight+plant container weight to screw me???

 

now these are just some of the questions I have either thought of, or have been asked by other licensed patients, please feel free to add questions but do not answer unless YOU KNOW FOR SURE WHAT THE CORRECT ANSWER IS...and I hope these actually have answers and not just the widely found "someone is going to have to be charged for us to find out" response that we all hate to see.....

[peanutbutter]

I notice while discussing with people all the intricate questions people have and some seem to contradict other laws (ei, ccw's), but since we have such a wonderful lawyer (thank you for all your help in the community and a wonderful podcast by the way) we might as well have as much info in one place.

 

so here are a few questions I have run across and cannot give people solid answers too.

 

1) Am i legally (MI state law of course) permitted to carry my licensed ccw weapon if I am also a MM patient?

 

2) How far away does my home need to be from certain types of buildings if I am a legal patient or caregiver (ei schools, churches)?

 

3) How much medicine am I permitted to carry on my person? what if I am a CG and I have multiple patients?

 

4) When is a plant a plant (ie, non rooted cutting, rooted clone, vegging plant, ect..)

 

5) If my medicine is cut down but not yet dry or cured can/will it used towards my personal limit if i were to get a visit from LEO?

 

6) If I have not harvested any finished product (medicine is still on the branch and in soil), and I was visited by LEO, could/would they use wet weight+plant container weight to screw me???

 

now these are just some of the questions I have either thought of, or have been asked by other licensed patients, please feel free to add questions but do not answer unless YOU KNOW FOR SURE WHAT THE CORRECT ANSWER IS...and I hope these actually have answers and not just the widely found "someone is going to have to be charged for us to find out" response that we all hate to see.....

 

Start here:

Two Tracks of Legal Protections under the Michigan Medical Marijuana Act Explained and Compared.

 

So then I'll try to answer your questions. Please bear in mind that the court system could disagree later and change the landscape.

 

"1) Am i legally (MI state law of course) permitted to carry my licensed ccw weapon if I am also a MM patient?"

 

Yes, if you are talking about Michigan law. Federal law could still be applies against you. The issuing agency for the ccw might view it as against the law also. Court cases might be required to verify this.

 

"2) How far away does my home need to be from certain types of buildings if I am a legal patient or caregiver (ei schools, churches)?"

 

These are the restrictions listed in the law itself:

(b) This act shall not permit any person to do any of the following:

 

(1) Undertake any task under the influence of marihuana, when doing so would constitute negligence or professional malpractice.

 

(2) Possess marihuana, or otherwise engage in the medical use of marihuana:

 

(A) in a school bus;

 

(B) on the grounds of any preschool or primary or secondary school; or

 

© in any correctional facility.

 

(3) Smoke marihuana:

 

(A) on any form of public transportation; or

 

(B) in any public place.

 

(4) Operate, navigate, or be in actual physical control of any motor vehicle, aircraft, or motorboat while under the influence of marihuana.

 

(5) Use marihuana if that person does not have a serious or debilitating medical condition.

 

So the answer to your question .. You can grow next door to a school. You can grow inside the church. According to our state law. Local governments are now passing restrictions that put more limits on a grower. Those include limits like 500 feet or 1000 feet from such and such. Michigan mmj law does not specify any number of feet at all. This should be a court fight at some point in the future.

 

"3) How much medicine am I permitted to carry on my person? what if I am a CG and I have multiple patients?"

There are two answers, depending on which level of protection you are asking about:

 

Under the primary defense available to the card holder:

 

A patient may have up to 2.5 ounces on their person.

A caregiver may have up to 2.5 ounces per patient they represent. 5 patients times 2.5 is 12.5 ounces. If the caregiver is also a patient that 2.5 oz is added to the total. In that case the limit (for the ID card system) is 15 ounces.

That amount is supposed to exempt them from arrest and prosecution.

 

The second defense available in a medical marijuana case is the affirmative defense. The limits are different for that section of the law.

 

(2) The patient and the patient's primary caregiver, if any, were collectively in possession of a quantity of marihuana that was not more than was reasonably necessary to ensure the uninterrupted availability of marihuana for the purpose of treating or alleviating the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition or symptoms of the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition;

 

A case could be make that the only way a patient could provide their medical need is to grow outdoors. In that case the harvest has to supply a one year supply of medicine.

 

If such a patient uses one ounce per week, that years supply would require 52 ounces.

 

The jury should get to decide if that 52 ounces would be what is required for an uninterrupted supply for that patient.

 

That's what is in the law. Court rulings could modify this answer.

 

"4) When is a plant a plant (ie, non rooted cutting, rooted clone, vegging plant, ect..)"

 

The most restrictive view is that any time that you take a cutting from the mother plant, that cutting is now a plant.

I believe this is in disagreement with the mmj law. Some courts seem to agree. Amoung other things this view would make an instant criminal out of anyone that harvests and trims a mature plant. Each trim cut would, in this case, be it's own plant.

The next, less restrictive view is that a cutting becomes a plant when it has roots.

Most courts in Michigan seem to have agreed with this second view.

 

This is a question that is being resolved in Michigan courts right now. Safe bet is to count every cutting that is being attempted to start roots as a plant for your count.

 

"5) If my medicine is cut down but not yet dry or cured can/will it used towards my personal limit if i were to get a visit from LEO?"

 

Here is what the law says:

section 3 (j) "Usable marihuana" means the dried leaves and flowers of the marihuana plant, and any mixture or preparation thereof, but does not include the seeds, stalks, and roots of the plant.

"cured" is not in the law. "dried" IS in the law.

 

I argue that a plant that has been harvested is no longer a plant. If the roots have been cut off, it is not a living plant.

 

If it's not a plant and is still wet, it shouldn't count toward either weight or plant count. It is material that is being used to manufacture "usable marihuana." It is in a count limbo.

 

It may be a long time before we get a solid answer about how the courts view this freshly harvested plant.

 

There have been cases where such a plant has counted toward the total plant count. Leo and the PA could well include it as part of the plant count. Then you are left with what a court might decide. Risky and a situation where it could be very expensive to prove you are right. Even more expensive if the court decided you are wrong.

 

"6) If I have not harvested any finished product (medicine is still on the branch and in soil), and I was visited by LEO, could/would they use wet weight+plant container weight to screw me???"

 

They could try. If you are asking what the law says, that's one thing. If you ask what any possible officer out there COULD do .. all bets are off. They got the guns.

 

Don't even think about saying "peanutbutter said to put away your guns."

[lawyercaregiver]

All answers IMHO, not legal advice etc.

 

1) Am i legally (MI state law of course) permitted to carry my licensed ccw weapon if I am also a MM patient?

 

Yes, any State issued license is protected. Under federal law your penalty would be enhanced.

 

 

2) How far away does my home need to be from certain types of buildings if I am a legal patient or caregiver (ei schools, churches)?

 

If you are legal you are legal but you cannot consume on school grounds and this enhances the federal penalty (and the State penalty if you are not legal for some unknown and unknowable reason.

 

3) How much medicine am I permitted to carry on my person? what if I am a CG and I have multiple patients?

 

2.5 ounces per legal, lawful card.

 

4) When is a plant a plant (ie, non rooted cutting, rooted clone, vegging plant, ect..)

 

When it has roots. Keep in mind a clone can form nice roots in a few days so the whole idea of doing a sea of green with 11 clones in flower and 11 clones rooting (for each lawful card you hold)is extremely dangerous to attempt.

 

5) If my medicine is cut down but not yet dry or cured can/will it used towards my personal limit if i were to get a visit from LEO?

 

The only amount counted towards your 2.5 ounces allowed is usable marijuana. On the plant does not count (except for your 12 plant limit). Off the plant- even drying and curing IMHO does not. Your best bet is freezing any overage since it is easier to argue this is not immediately usable (you have to take it out of the freezer for 5 minutes first).

 

6) If I have not harvested any finished product (medicine is still on the branch and in soil), and I was visited by LEO, could/would they use wet weight+plant container weight to screw me???

 

They might try but this has been asked and answered IMHO.

[Retta]

Thanks for answer #2, I tried to ask the health department and they said call a lawyer.