How Long Until Pain Becomes "chronic"?

[guyincognito]

I injured my knee playing soccer. It was very sore and swollen, but I was optimistic that it was minor and would heal quickly with a little tlc. After 6 weeks it improved slightly but was not even close to being healed so I saw the dr. He claims nothing seems physically wrong, and the pain was due to some irritation inside causing slight swelling. Advised to wear a brace and keep off it. Went back 4 weeks later; condition improved slightly again but I still get pain. He recommended physical therapy and set me up with another office for that.

 

I cannot crouch down, or fully extend the leg without pain. I have quit playing soccer and stopped recreational running for fear of causing even worse damage. The pain is not what I would classify as debilitating though, most of the time. Mostly just a hassle to not be able to do the things I want, and also having to be aware that even a task like getting on the ground or bending down can trigger a more intense pain. But about once every day or other day I will crouch on it wrong, or have climb stairs or ladders for work, and it will flare up and be painful. The pain is intense enough to require attention, and for me to stop whats aggravating it. It usually subsides s

 

My question is: how long does it have to be before it qualifies as "severe and chronic"? It has been almost 11 weeks since the incident, but only 5 weeks since my first office visit. And will they be hesitant to recommend me based on the time frame since it's not as obvious of an injury (as opposed to say a severe car wreck)? And will they be hesitant to recommend me since I have seen some improvement? It's definitely improving and healing, but much slower than anticipated; I don't know how long until its fully healed. I think I should qualify in the meantime, but they may be reluctant to sign off thinking I will return to perfect health after only a short duration. I have been self medicating with cannabis since the injury. Should I start the process now with 2 doctors visits both less than 5 weeks old? Or should I wait a little longer until I also have documentation from a PT? Is there any reason I could not reapply again, or apply to a different mm friendly clinic once I do get more documentation? Or will they flag my file if I apply with insufficient documentation?

 

Additional information: I also have unrelated chronic heart burn so I saw the dr. about that during both those visits. He prescribed generic prilosec and told me to avoid any anti inflammatory drugs as they will increase heartburn. The prilosec is working great, but now I cant take Motrin or ibuprofen when my knee starts hurting.

[Irishgreen]

3 months of documentation, is considered chronic.

[guyincognito]

Would any consideration of time elapsed between the injury and the first visit be given? The first 6 weeks of my injury were undocumented.

[Zombiefied]

3 months of documentation, is considered chronic.

 

I am not sure if that is what they go by, but when I was in pain and then had my MRI done and it showed herinated disks and arthritis, my Dr. stated that I would have that pain for a long time (chronic pain), that was all in the same month. But that is up to your doctor, but 3 months sounds like a good rule of thumb...lol

[guyincognito]

I am not sure if that is what they go by, but when I was in pain and then had my MRI done and it showed herinated disks and arthritis, my Dr. stated that I would have that pain for a long time (chronic pain), that was all in the same month. But that is up to your doctor, but 3 months sounds like a good rule of thumb...lol

 

Thats my concern, there is nothing like a herniated disk or some other obvious source of my pain, so I think they may be more skeptical and critical of my claims since they cant see an xray with a glaring defect. I would rather go in sooner than later though.

[Irishgreen]

Well, Migraine headaches qualify. I know THCF considers 3 months of documentation, proof for them.

 

I too, have 2 bulging disks, I sent my MRI from 2004. (also, notes must by from the last 3 years) Even though mine was older, it proved I had a condition.

 

So, I would say, as long as you have more than 3 chart notes, no older than 3 years and ongoing for at LEAST the last 3 months, you are good.

[guyincognito]

I ended up going to the THCF clinic and getting certified.

 

FYI they required documentation of dr visits for the qualifying condition 90 days apart.

 

Also FYI a friend with no insurance had her emergency room records from 3 1/2 years ago forwarded to them which shows she has hepatitis c. They said the records can be no older than 3 years, and the reason for the visit has to be the qualifying condition; In other words if HIV or hep C or some other qualifying condition is to be used, lab work documenting the condition is not enough for THCF, the REASON for the lab work being done must be specifically for the qualifying condition (which makes NO sense to me). And the records MUST be within 3 years, no exceptions, even if its an incurable qualifying condition (also makes NO sense to me). I understand they are trying to cover their own asses, and it makes perfect sense when someone like me comes in complaining of mysterious pain, but it does not make sense to turn away a qualifying patient who clearly has medical records to verify the incurable condition.

[Dilligaf]

I ended up going to the THCF clinic and getting certified.

 

FYI they required documentation of dr visits for the qualifying condition 90 days apart.

 

Also FYI a friend with no insurance had her emergency room records from 3 1/2 years ago forwarded to them which shows she has hepatitis c. They said the records can be no older than 3 years, and the reason for the visit has to be the qualifying condition; In other words if HIV or hep C or some other qualifying condition is to be used, lab work documenting the condition is not enough for THCF, the REASON for the lab work being done must be specifically for the qualifying condition (which makes NO sense to me). And the records MUST be within 3 years, no exceptions, even if its an incurable qualifying condition (also makes NO sense to me). I understand they are trying to cover their own asses, and it makes perfect sense when someone like me comes in complaining of mysterious pain, but it does not make sense to turn away a qualifying patient who clearly has medical records to verify the incurable condition.

 

Severe chronic pain, severe is relative as different people have a different pain tolerance, chronic to me means permanent or reoccurring. It would seem to me that any female could complain about menstrual cramps and be covered, what sort of documentation would this require? or is it just a given?

 

Mike

[Guest Marywanna]

They are just following the law to the letter because they have to. Now Drs are probably going to wonder if Bouchard is going to bust into their offices............This is the tactics of terror if you ask me.

[Guest drcanna-pest]

I injured my knee playing soccer. It was very sore and swollen, but I was optimistic that it was minor and would heal quickly with a little tlc. After 6 weeks it improved slightly but was not even close to being healed so I saw the dr. He claims nothing seems physically wrong, and the pain was due to some irritation inside causing slight swelling. Advised to wear a brace and keep off it. Went back 4 weeks later; condition improved slightly again but I still get pain. He recommended physical therapy and set me up with another office for that.

 

I cannot crouch down, or fully extend the leg without pain. I have quit playing soccer and stopped recreational running for fear of causing even worse damage. The pain is not what I would classify as debilitating though, most of the time. Mostly just a hassle to not be able to do the things I want, and also having to be aware that even a task like getting on the ground or bending down can trigger a more intense pain. But about once every day or other day I will crouch on it wrong, or have climb stairs or ladders for work, and it will flare up and be painful. The pain is intense enough to require attention, and for me to stop whats aggravating it. It usually subsides s

 

My question is: how long does it have to be before it qualifies as "severe and chronic"? It has been almost 11 weeks since the incident, but only 5 weeks since my first office visit. And will they be hesitant to recommend me based on the time frame since it's not as obvious of an injury (as opposed to say a severe car wreck)? And will they be hesitant to recommend me since I have seen some improvement? It's definitely improving and healing, but much slower than anticipated; I don't know how long until its fully healed. I think I should qualify in the meantime, but they may be reluctant to sign off thinking I will return to perfect health after only a short duration. I have been self medicating with cannabis since the injury. Should I start the process now with 2 doctors visits both less than 5 weeks old? Or should I wait a little longer until I also have documentation from a PT? Is there any reason I could not reapply again, or apply to a different mm friendly clinic once I do get more documentation? Or will they flag my file if I apply with insufficient documentation?

 

Additional information: I also have unrelated chronic heart burn so I saw the dr. about that during both those visits. He prescribed generic prilosec and told me to avoid any anti inflammatory drugs as they will increase heartburn. The prilosec is working great, but now I cant take Motrin or ibuprofen when my knee starts hurting.

 

 

If you are trying to get your card let them you know have bad migraines and nausea...if you are near west michigan there is a physician I know that will sign your paperwork with very little info. Very little...let me know. good luck.

[SLMG]

Be careful self medicating, this is a common type of injury that occurs and can be due to nothing more than a torn meniscus in the knee. Once you rest it adequately the inflammation and pain will go down...it can also sometimes be completely resolved with arthroscopic surgery, thus negating the need to medicate at all...just something to consider...it would seem worse to me to have to live with chronic pain and self medicate than to just treat it and be done with it...

[Guest drcanna-pest]

Be careful self medicating, this is a common type of injury that occurs and can be due to nothing more than a torn meniscus in the knee. Once you rest it adequately the inflammation and pain will go down...it can also sometimes be completely resolved with arthroscopic surgery, thus negating the need to medicate at all...just something to consider...it would seem worse to me to have to live with chronic pain and self medicate than to just treat it and be done with it...

 

 

this person obviously posted on here to find out how to get his Michigan Medical Marihuana card....not to have someone tell him to get surgery. I'm sure it will heal. thank you for your input...but he just wants his pot card dude...

[AbsoluteRoyal]

If you are trying to get your card let them you know have bad migraines and nausea...if you are near west michigan there is a physician I know that will sign your paperwork with very little info. Very little...let me know. good luck.

 

I dont think telling people to lie or to visit a semi-fruadulant doc is good advice. my .02

[Guest drcanna-pest]

I dont think telling people to lie or to visit a semi-fruadulant doc is good advice. my .02

 

 

right...I said that didn't I? I said you need little paperwork. You still have to go back to him for follow ups and he becomes your physician. And you have to see him a year later to renew the card. He isn't a semi-fraudulant dr at all. I didn't say to lie either...again "very little paperwork." Did you say anything to help someone in pain? No. So why attack my comments...idiot...

[AbsoluteRoyal]

right...I said that didn't I? I said you need little paperwork. You still have to go back to him for follow ups and he becomes your physician. And you have to see him a year later to renew the card. He isn't a semi-fraudulant dr at all. I didn't say to lie either...again "very little paperwork." Did you say anything to help someone in pain? No. So why attack my comments...idiot...

 

"If you are trying to get your card let them you know have bad migraines and nausea"-YOU

 

the OP said nothing about bad migraines and nausea

[+RevThad]

Not to jump into the middle of this love fest, but did either of you notice that the OP came back in and stated that he has gotten his recommendation taken care of...

 

I wish you well, and hope that you will both save the fury for our real enemies.

[Guest thequietone]

right...I said that didn't I? I said you need little paperwork. You still have to go back to him for follow ups and he becomes your physician. And you have to see him a year later to renew the card. He isn't a semi-fraudulant dr at all. I didn't say to lie either...again "very little paperwork." Did you say anything to help someone in pain? No. So why attack my comments...idiot...

 

Drcanna, please no name calling anymore okay. Thanks.

[Guest drcanna-pest]

Drcanna, please no name calling anymore okay. Thanks.

 

 

hahahahahaha

[Dr. Bob]

One definition of a chronic condition might be one that requires daily medication or repeated physician visits to address. Hypertension is one such condition requiring daily medication and periodic monitoring visit. Chronic back pain requiring daily medication would be another.

 

The issue of menstrual cramping is a tough one. Showing up in the clinic with a calendar marked with x'es wont fly. Notes from a physician ordering bed rest, work excuses, etc is better documentation. Another problem, can you get a mmj card for a condition that at most lasts 10 out of 30 days a month? If you did have a card, you could only use the medicine during the symptomatic time, not the other 3 weeks of the month or you would clearly be illegal.

 

It is my opinion that PMS is not an indication for a card, though others may disagree. I think the risk of arrest is much higher in this condition due to the cyclical nature of the symptoms. Irritable bowel would be a daily or near daily occurrence and would qualify. Asthma is another gray area. Yes, technically it is a muscle spasm, but it is not what was contemplated in the law for 'muscle spasms'. I personally don't write initial certs for asthma, though I could see doing a recert if clear and convincing evidence of improvement with MMJ was shown in a patient the state had previously certified for the condition.

 

Dr. Bob

 

Severe chronic pain, severe is relative as different people have a different pain tolerance, chronic to me means permanent or reoccurring. It would seem to me that any female could complain about menstrual cramps and be covered, what sort of documentation would this require? or is it just a given?

 

Mike

[lawyercaregiver]

They are just following the law to the letter because they have to. Now Drs are probably going to wonder if Bouchard is going to bust into their offices............This is the tactics of terror if you ask me.

 

Actually the law is totally unclear on the standards doctor's must use in issuing the certifications.

[mizerman]

3 months of documentation, is considered chronic.

Irishgreen is correct. Read the law. Read the law. Read the law.

 

If you can access this website, you surely can access www.mich.gov/mmp

 

 

Mizerman