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Co2 Revisted

buddies

By buddies
in The Grow Room

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buddies Member

buddies

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Hi guys I turned on the co2 today in the bloom room and after the days cycles, I opened the doors and found lots of condensasion on the inlet duct that goes to the sealed reflector hood. In fact, it was dripping wet, and the BLUE FRUIT PLANTS below that end were quite wet. This seems not quite proper. What the heck am I doing? The inlet vent goes directly outside, and goes to the reflector {600 HPS COOL ] then gets sucked out by an 400cfm active air inline fan. The plants are budding real good now, and I just want to enhance them with the CO2, but what the heck is all that condensation at the inlet duct? Any help/ideas/etc. would be great. PEACE. BUDDIES.

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semicaregiver Advanced Member

semicaregiver

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You did not say if the CO2 was from a tank or a generator. A generator will add humidity as well as heat to a room and will cause the moisture problem you saw. The simple solution would be to replace the piece of duct with insulated duct. That said you may want to check your humidity level and a dehumidifier might be needed. As it gets colder and colder outside you will find that the moisture problem just gets worse regardless so you probably should use an insulated duct.

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GrowGoddess Advanced Member

GrowGoddess

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I haven't really hooked up a CO2 system for plants, but I do know a little bit about it. I used to use my CO2 tank with a regulator that was for a welder. Then I had a 10 foot hose clamped to the regulator and at the other end a blow gun. I would go in and manually blow my plants every couple hours. LOL It did help. I also used the CO2 and pumped some into my bud jars before sealing the lid for long term storage.

 

Anyway, the CO2 regulator would get all frosted up if I was pumping out too much or had the regulator psi set too high. In your case maybe just lowering the (psi) pounds per square inch will help. The CO2 is cold then it goes and hits your duct, which is warm and is creating the condensation.

 

I also believe that the 30 minutes continuously could be another problem. Your problem sounds like the exhaust is just pulling out all of your CO2 and it is probably not even making it down to your plants and that is why you are getting the condensation at the light where the heat is. Really the fans are not supposed to be running when the CO2 is being injected.

 

I believe originally the CO2 set ups were intended for vegetate growth. A marijuana plant cannot grow any faster above 60-65 watts per square foot without CO2 enrichment, at least in vegetate growth. CO2 is also greatly beneficial below 60 watts per square foot. CO2 is also a must when it comes to a professionally designed fluorescent shelf system which produces more mj than any other set up per square foot of floor space, because there are so many plants which would deplete the natural CO2 supply quickly, that is why the CO2 enrichment is required for a shelf system. Unfortunately, CO2 enrichment during the off cycle is useless.

 

Over the years it has become more popular to use the CO2 enrichment during the flowering cycle. I never went through with a complete CO2 enrichment set up because I would have used it for my flower room. Every flower room I have had I am exhausting so much air the CO2 would be useless; there would be very minimal benefit to the plants because it would just be going straight out my exhaust. However, if I was going to add it to my flower room and leave my fans continuously exhausting then I would inject the CO2 where the air intake is at near the floor level with an oscillating fan blowing the CO2 all around the plants, then my exhaust fans would pull the CO2 up through the plants. Normally the CO2 would be hooked up at the ceiling level because it is cold and will naturally drop down and filter through the plants from above. In your case I believe the CO2 is dropping down directly into your exhaust fans and not making it to the plants. With the fresh cool CO2 going straight to the exhaust flange on the light hood which is very warm, that is causing the condensation.

 

My understanding the CO2 was meant to be injected like every 5 minutes for 10 or 20 seconds a shot, just an example, I really don't know for sure. It would be dependent upon each individual grow room and exhaust set up. Still I don't think it should be running for 30 minute stretches. If I sat there and did that with my old set up, the entire tank would frost up, if I ran it continuously for 30 minutes, especially with the psi set above 10 pounds. At least going by the crappy gauge that was on my regulator. It probably would not have had a frost problem running for long periods if I set the psi very low, like 1-5psi.

 

Another thing to consider. CO2 is typically injected when the thermostat turns off the exhaust fans, average is probably 1 to 5 minutes, when the grow room reaches a predetermined temperature, then the thermostat turns the exhaust fans back on and the CO2 turns off so it is not being wasted, this requires a special CO2 regulator designed for grow rooms.

 

Watch that condensation too; remember water and electricity do not mix, especially with the HID lamps. You sure would not want an implosion explosion.

 

Good luck

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SublimeWind Advanced Member

SublimeWind

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Your condensation problem has nothing to do with your Co2...

 

Co2 creates "dry" ice for a reason, it's one of the drier gasses...

 

What you are likely seeing is condensation at the inlet due to air velocity bringing the temp of that area down to the point it starts acting like a A/C unit, attracting moisture, also when the lights go off, the humidity jumps up.. if you are moving a lot of water around in your room, even more so.. .

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GrowGoddess Advanced Member

GrowGoddess

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Your condensation problem has nothing to do with your Co2...

 

Co2 creates "dry" ice for a reason, it's one of the drier gasses...

 

What you are likely seeing is condensation at the inlet due to air velocity bringing the temp of that area down to the point it starts acting like a A/C unit, attracting moisture, also when the lights go off, the humidity jumps up.. if you are moving a lot of water around in your room, even more so.. .

 

I'm sorry but I do have to disagree with your synopsis.

 

I guess it is just coincidence that it has just started happening after he began to use the CO2?

 

I never said that there was condensation within the CO2, there is moisture in the air and the cooling effects created by the CO2 and the warm metal is causing the condensation.

 

Of course with the high amount of air velocity that would contribute to the condensation especially with the cold CO2. In particular if the cold CO2 was going directly to the exhaust fans and never making it to the plants. That is an additional reason why I would not recommend the CO2 be injected while the exhaust fans are operating.

 

Now for the dry ice, isn't that cold, like freezing in fact? I just had some in my sink a few weeks ago and while the gas was pouring over my kitchen sink, low and behold, there was condensation! Imagine that.

 

In regards to my CO2 tank and regulator getting frosted, there was no high velocity air movement there. As a matter of fact, towards the bottom of the tank, it would get soaked with condensation, and the back of the welder that supports the weight of the tank, is the only place on the welder that has rust.

 

Cold air for 30 minutes venting through warm metal in a humid room = condensation in my opinion.

 

If I am not mistaken, almost all compressed gasses are cold, especially at high flow rates.

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LongHairBri Advanced Member

LongHairBri

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i dont have co2 yet and am having the same problem. condesation is forming on the outside of the fresh air supply to my lights and there's dew on the inside of the glass tubes (cool tubes) up to the bulb. thinking of changing my intake/outflow to circulate air from the inside of my house during winter. figure I might as well recapture the heat when I could use it. my other idea was to hook the fan up to a thermostat and only have it run when there are heat issues

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SublimeWind Advanced Member

SublimeWind

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I'm sorry but I do have to disagree with your synopsis.

 

Alright

 

I guess it is just coincidence that it has just started happening after he began to use the CO2?

 

most likely

 

I never said that there was condensation within the CO2, there is moisture in the air and the cooling effects created by the CO2 and the warm metal is causing the condensation.

 

I never said you said anything of the sort? Not sure where you picked that up from, soooo?

 

Cooling effect? Most of the cold is lost in the phase change, which is why the tank and regulator get frosty, did your whole welder frost up though? No, just the tank, where the vast majority of the phase change happened... When was the last time you saw warm metal condense water on it???

 

Of course with the high amount of air velocity that would contribute to the condensation especially with the cold CO2.

 

How cold do you think his amount of Co2 is making things? DO YOU even think it is possible, in the amounts that someone running a TANK, would be using, could cool a room, 1 degree maybe?

 

In particular if the cold CO2 was going directly to the exhaust fans and never making it to the plants. That is an additional reason why I would not recommend the CO2 be injected while the exhaust fans are operating.

 

The inlet vent goes directly outside, and goes to the reflector {600 HPS COOL ] then gets sucked out by an 400cfm active air inline fan.

 

Sounds to me like he pulls directly from outside, through the hood, and out of the room, sealed, not exhausting ANY of the Co2?

 

Now for the dry ice, isn't that cold, like freezing in fact? I just had some in my sink a few weeks ago and while the gas was pouring over my kitchen sink, low and behold, there was condensation! Imagine that.

 

Yep, super cold, but can also FREEZE DRY items VERY well.. what about condensation? the amount of vapor seems pouring out of your kitchen sink was worth about 6 DROPS of water overall, how much water pooled on the floor? oh, none, rught...lol..

 

In regards to my CO2 tank and regulator getting frosted, there was no high velocity air movement there. As a matter of fact, towards the bottom of the tank, it would get soaked with condensation, and the back of the welder that supports the weight of the tank, is the only place on the welder that has rust.

 

Correct, no high velocity air movement, but a crap-ton of phase change happening inside of the tank, no doubt... Don't tell me you've never seen your propane tank on your grill frost/condensate up before?? (you you haven't you need to grill more..lol)

 

Cold air for 30 minutes venting through warm metal in a humid room = condensation in my opinion.

 

Cold air, venting through metal, means COLD metal brotha, which = CONDENSATION (inside of a humid room)..lol.. I do believe...lol..

 

If I am not mistaken, almost all compressed gasses are cold, especially at high flow rates.

 

You are not mistaken, BUT, in this context, you are incorrect.. If the tank was opened, without a regulator, it would eventually begin freezing around the nozzle, but with the regulator in place, ESPECIALLY a low flow Co2 enrichment regulator, there is VERY little "cold" coming down the line, if there WAS, the whole line would frost up every time the Co2 came on...

 

 

Think about it.. grnwink.gif

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GrowGoddess Advanced Member

GrowGoddess

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i dont have co2 yet and am having the same problem. condesation is forming on the outside of the fresh air supply to my lights and there's dew on the inside of the glass tubes (cool tubes) up to the bulb. thinking of changing my intake/outflow to circulate air from the inside of my house during winter. figure I might as well recapture the heat when I could use it. my other idea was to hook the fan up to a thermostat and only have it run when there are heat issues

 

I think I may be able to offer some assistance with that.

Is your fresh supply ducted in from the outside of the house to the light then exhausted directly back outside? (so you are not taking the heat out of your house?)

If so, and you are looking for alternative ideas to prevent pumping large amounts of heat out of your house. I have a solution to where you are pumping minimal heat from your house, and prevents the mj from stinking up the house without your grow room overheating.

 

Here is what I have done for my system, which is a 2000W 880 cfm closet. I have added an air exchange fan system which is an additional 730 cfm to help solve heating problems. I also used the Speedster speed controller to be able to lower the exhaust fan cfm.

 

Here is the 8" High Output can fan mounted at the ceiling inside the grow closet. There is an 8" flex pipe behind the wall which goes down to a vent that blows the warmed air from the flower room back into the main room. Also, I would like to point out that for summer or winter using an exchange air fan can make heating and cooling for your house or your grow room more efficient. If all of my fans were pumping out all of the heat from my house and I was using a furnace for heat, my heating bill might quadruple and that is if my furnace could even keep up with all of the exhausting. The same would go for air conditioning in the summer. That is why the addition of an air exchange fan could be most beneficial.

069.jpg

 

This is my lights and exhaust fans.

010-1-1-1.jpg

 

Here is a link to my new flower room from beginning to end. So far it seems to be working out perfectly for all seasons. There is one more issue that I may have to deal with, but otherwise I think I have it beat. Look it over, it just may give you some ideas.

GG's New 2000W Grow Closet Link

:D

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GrowGoddess Advanced Member

GrowGoddess

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Hi guys I turned on the co2 today in the bloom room and after the days cycles, I opened the doors and found lots of condensasion on the inlet duct that goes to the sealed reflector hood. In fact, it was dripping wet, and the BLUE FRUIT PLANTS below that end were quite wet. This seems not quite proper. What the heck am I doing?

 

The inlet vent goes directly outside, and goes to the reflector {600 HPS COOL ] then gets sucked out by an 400cfm active air inline fan.

 

Are you saying that the inlet exhausts directly outside from the light (inlet being at the light) or are you saying the inlet is located outside and being ducted into the light and then being pumped outside with your inline fan? On my initial reply, since you mentioned Co2, I assumed the inlet was located at your light inside the grow room. If your inlet is outside you may want to consider alternatives like where I explain and show some pics in a post to LongHairBri on this thread.

 

If you are intaking air from the outside ducted directly to the lights, the CO2 being injected into the room is probably creating the temps to go down 5 or more degrees in your growroom since you are injecting it for lomg periods (30 min), and there is no air in the room being exhausted. This is cooling the room down quickly per say and contributing to the condensation. In other words it is making it sweat like cold water lines in your house in the summer. I recommend reducing the injection periods to 5 minutes or less, but more often. Just an opinion, I would be afraid to intake air directly from outside due to the wide temperature changes in Michigan.

 

The plants are budding real good now, and I just want to enhance them with the CO2, but what the heck is all that condensation at the inlet duct? Any help/ideas/etc. would be great. PEACE. BUDDIES.

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SublimeWind Advanced Member

SublimeWind

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i dont have co2 yet and am having the same problem. condesation is forming on the outside of the fresh air supply to my lights and there's dew on the inside of the glass tubes (cool tubes) up to the bulb. thinking of changing my intake/outflow to circulate air from the inside of my house during winter. figure I might as well recapture the heat when I could use it. my other idea was to hook the fan up to a thermostat and only have it run when there are heat issues

 

That's a perfect idea for winter time, you are producing the heat, paying for it, why not use it...

 

If the system is sealed well enough, it's not going to pick up smell as it passes through the room...

 

The problem y'all are having is because of the temperature outside and the amount of humidity in the air..

 

Intakes are supposed to be larger than exhausts for a reason, it lowers the air velocity, lessening the cooling effect on the ducts... In the case of the home HVAC system, you are pulling warm moist air into the cooling coils, where heat AND humidity is removed and then sent down a large distribution duct, and spiders out to individual zones.. The small ducts don't condense on the inside, because the moisture has mostly been removed..

 

Now, take a cooling loop like in this case, intake pulling from outside...

 

The intake, likely 6", exhaust 6".. intake velocity will = exhaust velocity..

 

My theory is that air velocity at AND along the intake is causing the duct to be cooled sufficiently enough for the humidity of the cool damp air coming in from outside, to condense on everything up to the heat source, the bulb..

 

If you know anything about airflow along a convoluted duct or any surface for that matter, there is very little airflow right ON a surface.. down a convoluted duct, one could assume very little airflow happening along the first 1/8-1/4" of the duct walls, allowing for condensation, even helping it along with eddy currents along the duct wall...

 

Move your intake, exhaust back into the house, seal it proper and you won't have any smell.. and you'll likely rid yourself of the condensation problem...

 

I have to figure out how to passively cool my room now, as I've been using a window A/C unit up to this point.. shouldn't be more than building a light baffle..

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