Oakland County Grow Felony Charge

[thanks2]

The point is that everything can hurt his case. They redact, twist, and pull things out of context to use against you. Just ask barb agro, they basically got a signed confession by redacting everything from her statement except the words I, grow, and marijuana.

 

Besides, he already basically told you guys what brought them to his door. In our community we can assume innocents and leave the prosecution to those who assume guilt until proven other wise.

 

All the information to know what he is facing is in the plant counts, nothing else is needed. Sentencing for a first time marijuana offense is usually probation. Archy got 5 months, I think. Barb got 0 month. Vanderbutts got 90 on a tether and 18 months probation for over 40 plants and a pound on hand. But you never know when the judge is going to get a bug up their arze.

[thatoneartist]

I've already asked the OP this, he said "doesn't matter." There is something were not being told by the OP which could greatly help us help him but he doesn't seem that desperate for help. Its a shame too I'm in Oakland county and would like to know the tactics they're using to get in but our OP here just wants help from us without giving anything to us. He’s not the only CG in Oakland county and he could at least give the others on here some facts. You've been charge the warrant has been served, you stating what the warrant had on it doesn’t admit responsibility what so ever it lets us know what type of angle they're going after and how to defend against it. No point in trying to help someone who doesn't want to be helped it seems like he’s just looking for some attention at this point for whatever reason.

 

 

relax a little bit okay...I'm telling you who I am if i tell you. I do obviously want help, but a little hesitant on telling everyone who I am. Anyways, I sold to an undercover that had a fake MM card and a fake ID

[thatoneartist]

The point is that everything can hurt his case. They redact, twist, and pull things out of context to use against you. Just ask barb agro, they basically got a signed confession by redacting everything from her statement except the words I, grow, and marijuana.

 

Besides, he already basically told you guys what brought them to his door. In our community we can assume innocents and leave the prosecution to those who assume guilt until proven other wise.

 

All the information to know what he is facing is in the plant counts, nothing else is needed. Sentencing for a first time marijuana offense is usually probation. Archy got 5 months, I think. Barb got 0 month. Vanderbutts got 90 on a tether and 18 months probation for over 40 plants and a pound on hand. But you never know when the judge is going to get a bug up their arze.

 

do you know what judges these people had? what did Archy have?

[thatoneartist]

Just want the wording on the warrant. The wording will be heard by everyone in court anyway. Just tell us. It's what lead to not having a medical defense. It's the root of everything that follows. They would not have known the basement was unlocked without a proper warrant.

 

 

Actually why they got the warrant has NOTHING to do with this case. Can't elaborate why...but just trust me, it doesn't

[thatoneartist]

I appreciate everyones input and help, even if I disagree....That being said, I want to elaborate a little more.

 

Another sticky situation with this is that I had a roommate that had an out of state medical marijuana card that expired a few months prior to the raid. He was on probation and couldn't smoke at the time so i wasn't too worried about him taking meds from me.

 

So I guess another question I have is has their been a case where someones card expired and then they got busted but still were able to use their MM defense?

[thatoneartist]

I appreciate everyones input and help, even if I disagree....That being said, I want to elaborate a little more.

 

Another sticky situation with this is that I had a roommate that had an out of state medical marijuana card that expired a few months prior to the raid. He was on probation and couldn't smoke at the time so i wasn't too worried about him taking meds from me.

 

So I guess another question I have is has their been a case where someones card expired and then they got busted but still were able to use their MM defense?

 

 

He was present during the raid...the only person present actually. And proof of his residence was found

[cristinew]

wish patients would not have to deal with this, but some want to continue the war on drugs Peace

[thatoneartist]

The roomate effects the basement grow area being unlocked. They shouldn't have had access. That also kills your defense.

 

I have heard of one case of an expired card and they were charged and I believe they plead out. You could try to develope an AD with the doctors note that doesn't expire like a card.

 

 

that's why I think if I can plead and get a deal with no time I should

[thanks2]

When you started out with this, a patient or caregiver here would/might think that they could get in trouble for just having their plant room unlocked. That's something we really need to avoid, incomplete info that leads to unwarranted fears.

Barb did get in trouble for just that. Her husband left in a hurry after hearing his son was getting raided, so he went to grab the grand-kids or whatever. In his haste he did not click the lock shut all the way on his room. He was raided a hour or so after. He died a few days later. His wife who was allowed 24 plants and had 17 plants was denied the medical defense just because the lock on the room was left ajar in her husbands haste to leave the house. Between the two of them they were allowed 48 plants, but only had 17.

[thatoneartist]

Barb did get in trouble for just that. Her husband left in a hurry after hearing his son was getting raided, so he went to grab the grand-kids or whatever. In his haste he did not click the lock shut all the way on his room. He was raided a hour or so after. He died a few days later. His wife who was allowed 24 plants was denied the medical defense just because the lock on the room was left ajar in her husbands haste to leave the house.

 

 

ya i know about that. but my situation is worse because of my friend living at the house wasn't a patient at the time of the raid

[thanks2]

ya i know about that. but my situation is worse because of my friend living at the house wasn't a patient at the time of the raid

That does complicate things, but we do not have any case law yet. It could be argued he was an unregistered patient because he had his doctor's note but not his card. The problem is I think that the doctor must be licensed to practice in Michigan. As of right now, we do not really know how long a doctor's note is good for. It would be tough to prove it is good for over a year. Though for diseases that do not go away, one might be able to make the case for longer than a year. Probably not something to count on.

[thatoneartist]

That does complicate things, but we do not have any case law yet. It could be argued he was an unregistered patient because he had his doctor's note but not his card. The problem is I think that the doctor must be licensed to practice in Michigan. As of right now, we do not really know how long a doctor's note is good for. It would be tough to prove it is good for over a year. Though for diseases that do not go away, one might be able to make the case for longer than a year. Probably not something to count on.

 

 

exactly. again, I kinda doubt I can get a deal with no time, but I'm going to try

[purklize]

On the subject of what was discussed early in this thread, unfortunatley I think PB is right... there is a presumption that if you ahve a certain amount, it is for sale, and you have to prove your innocence in these cases. Don't forget, the Constitution was written on hemp so the judges have no problem with burning it.

[peanutbutter]

That doesn't have anything to do with this case at all.

 

He sold to a cop with a card.

 

His room mate had access to his plants.

 

This case is so clear and helpful to others I hate to see it get muddied up.

 

If the op accepts any form of plea, he may wish to insure that later he has the ability to ask the court to reverse the verdict.

 

If changes take place that cause the system to be more relaxed, the op doesn't want to be in a situation where it can't be reversed.

 

Locked enclosed facility

 

The LEF is a requirement that is contained within section four of the law. Within section eight, there is no such requirement.

Currently, most courts view the LEF as a requirement for section eight to apply. That could still change.

 

The LEF is not required to be locked.

Something that has been overlooked so far. The LEF is only required to be EQUIPPED with locks.

It is impossible to cultivate through a locked door. We are allowed to cultivate. Therefore the room WILL be unlocked from time to time.

Watering a plant shouldn't make a patient a felon. And the law is written that way.

 

Expired ID card

Thanks goes out to Bill Schuette for pointing this factoid out.

Bill wishes to insert a word into our law before anyone notices. That word is "valid."

Here is the part of section four our BS is worried about:

Sec. 4. (a) A qualifying patient who has been issued and possesses a registry identification card shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner,

 

BS wants the law to be changed to read:

Sec. 4. (a) A qualifying patient who has been issued and possesses a VALID registry identification card shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner,

 

BS sees this as a problem that could work against the legal system. Did the OP have a ID card issued by the state? Yes.

 

So the OP may wish to keep options open for anything that may go our way in the future.

[peanutbutter]

That doesn't have anything to do with this case at all.

 

He sold to a cop with a card.

 

His room mate had access to his plants.

 

This case is so clear and helpful to others I hate to see it get muddied up.

 

It is not clear. I will not concede any point in the details of this law.

 

What should the OP do here?

 

That is something that I can't advise one way or the other.

 

I can KNOW what the law says. There is no way on God's green earth I can KNOW how courts will act.

 

Those are two different issues. With the bottom line being the respect or lack thereof of the vote of the people by the system.

 

If a court doesn't give a crap about the voters, then yes .. cop a plea.

[peanutbutter]

Or, what should we NOT do was my point.

 

1). Don't sell to a cop with a card.

 

2). If you live with someone not authorized to possess the plants, then secure your grow with a lock to keep them out.

 

Always looking for the constructive...

 

Things have not completely settled out, as far as the courts go.

 

It is impossible to cultivate through a locked door. And we are allowed to cultivate.

 

That is simple. And it's a simple point that I refuse to concede.

 

There are many leo and pa's that read this forum. They need to understand when they don't have a complete green light.

 

If they see that we all agree on a point, they think that point is correct.

 

So if we all agree that the OP is guilty, guess what .. The OP faces immense weight from the courts. We convict the patient here and the system will follow for all of us.

 

I think it is immoral to use this forum to educate the system of the ways to put us in jail. More so if it is not a clear point in the law itself.

[thatoneartist]

Or, what should we NOT do was my point.

 

1). Don't sell to a cop with a card.

 

2). If you live with someone not authorized to possess the plants, then secure your grow with a lock to keep them out.

 

Always looking for the constructive...

 

 

ya. true...true... man everyday i begged the roommate togo get certified. he wanted to, and planned to. but was really busy lol. I remember I said I'll pay him more then it cost to get certified and everything if he just goes. I should have changed the locks on the front door until he went...oh well

[Timmahh]

thatoneartist, on 16 November 2011 - 03:00 PM, said:

ya i know about that. but my situation is worse because of my friend living at the house wasn't a patient at the time of the raid

ya. true...true... man everyday i begged the roommate togo get certified. he wanted to, and planned to. but was really busy lol. I remember I said I'll pay him more then it cost to get certified and everything if he just goes. I should have changed the locks on the front door until he went...oh well

 

The Act specifically covers "Other Persons in the Vicinity" of medical cannabis and/or it's USE, as it is writing in the Act.

 

333.26424

Qualifying patient or primary caregiver; arrest, prosecution, or penalty prohibited; conditions; presumption; compensation; physician subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty prohibited; marihuana paraphernalia; person in presence or vicinity to medical use of marihuana; registry identification issued outside of department; sale of marihuana as felony; penalty.

 

subsection (i)

 

(i) A person shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, solely for being in the presence or vicinity of the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act, or for assisting a registered qualifying patient with using or administering marihuana.

 

The bold areas I notated; the first is the header of that section, and notates specifically any penalty for anyone in the vacinity.. ie, anyone in the general area medical cannabis is being used if safe from prosecution, and can not be arrested simply for being there. This covers, wife or husband, children, friend, roommates, post men, USP Delivery guys, ect.. ANYONE that is not a card holder, but happens to be in the vicinity of medical cannabis during "USE" as defined per the Act.

 

It's right there in black and white. Those citizens can not be arrested and or used as leverage by being arrested, charged, or any other penalty, just for being around medical cannabis and its use.

 

Now, we have to take that in context with the pt or cg rules. ie, locked enclosed facility. Authorized CGs or Pts with grow rights are supposed to ensure no one can get access to the grow area at any time.

 

so the context is a grow area, and accessibility. the grow area must have a lock, or other security device, and needs to be functional. note: the law does not specifically state the lock must be in application, or other security devices must be in opperation, just that the grow area must have one of these means available to it..

 

now if you live by yourself, and grow, if you leave, and lock your house, your facility is still secure if it is in say, a closet in your bedroom. So long as no one can get access to it without illegally entering your home. So, the grow should be considered secure, as the home is locked, and no one can get in legally unless you authorize it, even being the closet door itself is not locked, so long as it can be secured. Not IS secured.

 

Now if one has someone residing in the home, that is not a carded pt or cg, (i) protects them from prosecution for being in the vicinity of "Use".

 

I believe the key in this is going to fall down to access to the areas, when someone that is not authorized, is in the vicinity.. To the point, if your gone to a Dr.'s appointment or at work, you leave, locking the home, and the closet door, then no one, including anyone living in the same home, can not get access while you are away.

(i) protects them.

 

(g) to a lesser extent further offers protections for non registered citizens.

 

(g) A person shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, for providing a registered qualifying patient or a registered primary caregiver with marihuana paraphernalia for purposes of a qualifying patient's medical use of marihuana.

 

this addresses paraphernalia associated with Use.

 

But again, the law implies the locks only need to be present and in functioning order, not that they specifically need to be applied every minute of every day...

could be a rough battle, but in the end of the day,

 

 

I do not see any reason why this should be a major issue, except to punish an authorized plant holder simply for being an Authorized Participant of the MMM Program. Which is exactly what JOakland is doing.

 

Though the access by anyone in the vicinity protects them, it may leave the authoroized plant holder out to dry... if the grow area itself is not secured. Simply locking the bedroom door, denying anyone legal access while your away is supposed to give you that protection.

 

That also pertains to the useable medication itself, is locked and accessible to the authorized pt/cg, then the rest is of non issue, due to its unusalble form, while in a grow area, or even during curing process.

 

"Useable is the key word imo". if its not useable, then it is not ready.

as they say "the devil is in the details". imo, as long as the useable meds were secured, and the home was secured, then it doesnt matter if the grow room itself isnt secured.

 

the meds growing are "unuseable" therefore no subject to being secured, from (i) someone in the vicinity. keep the "Useable" meds in a locked area only accessible to the authorized card holder,