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Our Law Is In Grave Danger.


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STATE OF MICHIGAN

STATEWIDE BALLOT PROPOSAL STATUS

NOVEMBER 2, 2010 GENERAL ELECTION

I. STATEWIDE PROPOSALS QUALIFIED TO APPEAR ON NOVEMBER 2, 2010 GENERAL ELECTION BALLOT

A. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION: Placement of proposal on ballot required under the State Constitution, Art. XII, Sec. 3.

Purpose: Proposal to convene a constitutional convention for the purpose of drafting a general revision of the State Constitution.

 

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/sos/Bal_Prop_Status_2010_272754_7.pdf

 

Since the Michigan Medical Marijuana Act is part of the state constitution, it could be totally removed in a rewrite. Political Science is not my specialty, so someone please correct me if I am wrong. Even if Medical Marijuana was not at risk, I am not for a new constitution of the state. We could lose all our rights that the constitution has protected for many years. Politicians and courts hate that their hands are tied by the constitution, which is meant to protect us from them. We need to start the campaign now against this!!!! Hopefully we can hash out what this means to us and some good talking points.

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Medical Marijuana is not in the state constitution. It is simply a law, albeit passed via ballot proposal rather than the usual and customary legislative process.

 

There are legitimate concerns about the possibility of a constitutional convention, and there are pros as well, but medical marijuana is NOT a part of the state constitution.

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The real danger is in some of these bills they try to sneak in under the radar.

More $$$$$$

More government control

Less rights

Less freedom

 

"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

— Thomas Jefferson

 

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Ben Franklin

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The real danger is in some of these bills they try to sneak in under the radar.

More $$$$$$

More government control

Less rights

Less freedom

 

"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

— Thomas Jefferson

 

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Ben Franklin

AMEN!

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AMEN!

 

What happened to the "less government more personal freedoms" mantra the right used for ever. It seems to me that the more freedoms we do achieve the more laws are passed to restrict the new freedoms.

 

The past few years have turned freaking surrealistic in our country.

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What happened to the "less government more personal freedoms" mantra the right used for ever. It seems to me that the more freedoms we do achieve the more laws are passed to restrict the new freedoms.

 

The past few years have turned freaking surrealistic in our country.

I have no idea what the right is up to with their mantras. Personally, I have always been in favor of less government intrusion into all aspects of our lives. I feel that folks should be free to do whatever they wish to do as long as they aren't infringing on somebody else's right to do the same.

 

The surrealistic part of our country is that so many have bought into the thought that either of the major parties as a body have the interest of the people in mind, their only concerns are maintaining and gaining more power, just through slightly different methods.

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The real danger is in some of these bills they try to sneak in under the radar.

More $$$

More government control

Less rights

Less freedom

 

"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

— Thomas Jefferson

 

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Ben Franklin

:thumbsu::thumbsu:

 

Sb

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The surrealistic part of our country is that so many have bought into the thought that either of the major parties as a body have the interest of the people in mind, their only concerns are maintaining and gaining more power, just through slightly different methods.

 

Well, that is perhaps a not realistic assumption, though certainly the Machiavellian mechanisms have become so ingrained into the system that even the "lesser of two evils" vote isn't all it's cracked up to be anymore, either. Meanwhile, there's still some rather striking and important ideological differences between Democrat, Republican, and Libertarian platforms to consider.

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Well, that is perhaps a not realistic assumption, though certainly the Machiavellian mechanisms have become so ingrained into the system that even the "lesser of two evils" vote isn't all it's cracked up to be anymore, either. Meanwhile, there's still some rather striking and important ideological differences between Democrat, Republican, and Libertarian platforms to consider.

 

Granted there are major differences between the various platforms.

 

What is more important is the resulting practical application.

 

There is a clear trend toward restrictions of civilians. No matter which side is in office.

 

The people wanted health care. The government invented whole new reasons to put civilians in jail. While inventing thousands of pages of protections for special interests. And doing so without even beginning to consider the most cost effective method to reduce health care costs in the USA. Legalize marijuana. Not one single hint of thinking. Every one of these elected officials acting like robots in this context. Not even allowed to think.

 

So what would be the target of this brainwashing machine? The current trend would seem to suggest a complete police state.

 

How close are we to the target?

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All of which is why we must present this as a civil rights issue.

 

The only way that patients will have freedom without fear, is if it is completely legal.

 

That freedom from fear directly impacts our nations health care costs. And has a direct impact on the numbers of needless deaths taking place in our nation right now.

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As members of the medical marijuana community, most of us would tend to have that "police state" feeling.

 

There are other segments of our society that would feel that way also.

 

But I wonder how wide spread that feeling runs. I realize that I am biased.

 

You make a great point. I think the police have been more careful in dealing with people who they think vote or have the means to defend their rights.

 

I think it goes like this. If you say violation of civil rights most people roll their eyes and think that they have never been hassled because they don't break the law. So if you are getting hassled you are probably breaking the law. They need to read Pastor Niemoller's poem.

 

They came first for the Communists,

and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

 

Then they came for the trade unionists,

and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

 

Then they came for the Jews,

and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

 

Then they came for me

and by that time no one was left to speak up.

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You make a great point. I think the police have been more careful in dealing with people who they think vote or have the means to defend their rights.

 

I think it goes like this. If you say violation of civil rights most people roll their eyes and think that they have never been hassled because they don't break the law. So if you are getting hassled you are probably breaking the law. They need to read Pastor Niemoller's poem.

 

They came first for the Communists,

and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

 

Then they came for the trade unionists,

and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

 

Then they came for the Jews,

and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

 

Then they came for me

and by that time no one was left to speak up.

 

It sounds like a lot of people are about to die.

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Well, that is perhaps a not realistic assumption, though certainly the Machiavellian mechanisms have become so ingrained into the system that even the "lesser of two evils" vote isn't all it's cracked up to be anymore, either. Meanwhile, there's still some rather striking and important ideological differences between Democrat, Republican, and Libertarian platforms to consider.

That is part and parcel the problem. Too many folks look at a platform, and don't look at the individuals they are voting for to carry out that platform. Most of the folks elected these days are merely sock puppets for some financial powerhouse that controls their purse strings. We need to get back to picking folks that come from the people, common folks, people with common sense, people that understand what it means to earn a paycheck, or raise a family on a limited budget. We need to elect folks that will write laws that everybody can plainly read and understand, not laws that are designed to keep lawyers in business hashing out the semantical nuances of a 1600 page bill intending to say you can't cross the street when there is a red light.

 

I will leave my rant on that subject for another day. The long and short of it is that as soon as these representatives realized they could make a career out of being elected, their self preservation started tailoring laws to keep themselves in office.

 

This election cycle is important for another reason that many have overlooked, whoever controls congress after this midterm gets control of the redistricting that occurs with the census reports... just something to keep in mind.

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While recent events have surely led to feelings of hopelessness and despair in many regarding the future of our rights as medical marijuana patients, and for good reason, it is really important NOT to lose hope. Many of us are combating very real and very serious illnesses and science has proven that a positive outlook contributes to positive healing. I, for one, make a conscience decision NOT to lose hope, as difficult as that is. I choose to believe that despite all the trouble law enforcement and sheriff dipshiz has caused in the past few weeks, and despite all the suffering that those good, innocent people have endured at the hands of people who are ignorant to the law, that it is not all in vain. I believe that from all this craziness will come a clearly defined definition of our rights as patients that will be undisputable to LEOs from then on out. If we all sit around and expect the worst, that's what we're going to get. Let's just try to remain hopeful, as impossible as that seems. :)

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That is part and parcel the problem. Too many folks look at a platform, and don't look at the individuals they are voting for to carry out that platform. Most of the folks elected these days are merely sock puppets for some financial powerhouse that controls their purse strings. We need to get back to picking folks that come from the people, common folks, people with common sense, people that understand what it means to earn a paycheck, or raise a family on a limited budget. We need to elect folks that will write laws that everybody can plainly read and understand, not laws that are designed to keep lawyers in business hashing out the semantical nuances of a 1600 page bill intending to say you can't cross the street when there is a red light.

 

I will leave my rant on that subject for another day. The long and short of it is that as soon as these representatives realized they could make a career out of being elected, their self preservation started tailoring laws to keep themselves in office.

 

This election cycle is important for another reason that many have overlooked, whoever controls congress after this midterm gets control of the redistricting that occurs with the census reports... just something to keep in mind.

 

There are progressive representatives and candidates out there working to make a difference, you know. Government consists of more than just what you describe in terms of FUBAR. But I totally agree with your season of the witch sentiment at the end.

 

Citizens United describes itself as more or less just what you described above, as a populist idea that's just loaded with common sense, and so on (as does Glenn Beck describe his whole thing, for that matter). But the truth is just the opposite.

 

The common sense of the American workingman tells him that unscrupulous corporations shouldn't be allowed to control our elections and manufacture public opinion. And that's basically what you were saying, right?

 

Well, Some representatives in Washington are pledging to end the corruption by overturning the Citizens United verdict and get back to election reform that limits ($$) influence in campaigns - and ends the overwhelming lobbying taking place on capital hill.

 

Just saying, as they say.

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There are progressive representatives and candidates out there working to make a difference, you know. Government consists of more than just what you describe in terms of FUBAR. But I totally agree with your season of the witch sentiment at the end.

 

Citizens United describes itself as more or less just what you described above, as a populist idea that's just loaded with common sense, and so on (as does Glenn Beck describe his whole thing, for that matter). But the truth is just the opposite.

 

The common sense of the American workingman tells him that unscrupulous corporations shouldn't be allowed to control our elections and manufacture public opinion. And that's basically what you were saying, right?

 

Well, Some representatives in Washington are pledging to end the corruption by overturning the Citizens United verdict and get back to election reform that limits ($$) influence in campaigns - and ends the overwhelming lobbying taking place on capital hill.

 

Just saying, as they say.

 

 

The word progressive in relation to a politician gets my hairs standing on end. Progressives that have been elected over the years have done more to introduce government controls and regulations in our personal affairs than any other collection of pols. Prohibitions on smoking (tobacco and mj), handguns, etc...

 

I won't try to speak for the common man, as there are far too many to get a general consensus on what you say they are feeling. I would guess that in general, that most folks know that the money is going to be spent one way or the other, out in the open with a movie or television ad, or behind closed doors with contributions to charities and PACs.

 

Honestly, I don't believe there should be any limits put on what an individual, corporation or even union can donate to a particular candidate or cause. I do believe that donations over a certain threshold should be documented, because if you believe in something enough to donate a Million or more, you should be proud enough to up for it being made. By the way do you know where most of that money goes? It goes into hiring event staff, local television and newspapers, restaurants and local communities. Just something to think about.

 

I don't think there will ever come a day when I will vote a straight party ticket again.

 

Just thought of one other point. Wasn't that the promise of this administration, and the current congress? To get rid of the money changers, to not hire lobbyists, and clean out the swamp? Hows that working out? They must have meant after the next presidential election...

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The word progressive in relation to a politician gets my hairs standing on end. Progressives that have been elected over the years have done more to introduce government controls and regulations in our personal affairs than any other collection of pols. Prohibitions on smoking (tobacco and mj), handguns, etc...

 

 

Don't be afraid of progressive thinking. Despite what that moron Beck says it is not a bad thing. Parts of it can be bad like attacks on our second amendment but in general I am glade for the progressives. I sure don't want to be regressive and go back to days of slavery, child labor, and indentured servitude.

 

Teddy Roosevelt was a progressive in the Republican party. Without him our national parks would not exist, our meat supply would not be as safe, our food and drugs would not be labeled with ingredients, and our mine workers would not be as safe ( know that last one is questionable with recent mine problems but think what it would be without Teddy's influence.) Unfortunately when Teddy left the Republican party to create the short lived Bull Mose Party he took all the progressives with him. The Republicans used to be the progressive party with the Democrats (mostly the southern democrats) being the regressive party that backed slavery and corporate interest. But after Teddy left the Republicans championed the corporate interest and once Hoover became president he drove the country into a great depression. But that is another story.

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