This Ain't Working...

[zoolander]

LITLJON you're not seeing the caregiver's perspective here. You say $240-$300 for an ounce of meds is the difference between paying bills or just food. And what, I'm ballin?? You think all one has to do is plant a few seeds and the money just starts rollin in nonstop? You seem to have an extremely naive view of how this whole growing business actually works so let me break it down for you.

 

To grow high quality cannabis properly indoors on any kind of scale, and on a continuous basis I need HID lights, ventilation, buckets, soil, nutrients, and about a billion other miscellaneous must-haves like trowels, rubbermaid tubs, stakes, ties, the list goes on. If I, as a smart businessman, invest in high quality equipment instead of wasting money on junk (i.e. spend extra for digital ballasts, quality bulbs, nutes, etc) then I have already spent realistically at least $2,500 just to get started, just on fixed equipment costs, to grow 24+ plants, while doing everything possible to cut costs and save money wherever possible. If anyone disagrees and says it can be done cheaper then either you're not being honest with yourself, didn't keep track of all the little costs that nickel and dimed you for months on end (I did), or you've never actually done a real cannabis grow.

 

Now that I have the equipment I need quality genetics. The best way to go in the long run is to buy good seeds, grow them out, pick the best mom(s). In doing this properly I have to take a clone from EACH female to preserve it while I flower all the originals to completion, dry, and cure to pick the best smoke and decide which plant(s) is overall best to preserve. Not only does this cost money for the initial seed purchases (plural, because you're not going to grow just one strain right? Each of your patients has a different need right?), but more importantly it takes a lot of TIME. There's a HUGE amount of time that passes in between planting the first seed and harvesting the first smoke, let alone getting the whole grow totally dialed in with ideal moms and yields maximized.

 

In the mean time, the bills are due every month. Water usage goes up and electricity is not cheap, especially in the dead of winter when you're having to use an electric heater to keep the flower room above freezing in the dark period. In the beginning there are months and months passing by before you see the first dollar from an ounce sold. You're eating Ramen noodles, going hungry, and being worried about keeping the bills paid. As an experienced grower I laugh at people's idea that you can just multiply 12 plants times 4 ounces each and magically get 48 oz. Sure, after you've spend literally a year or two getting your grow dialed in. That's something you build up to, not achieve instantly.

 

Did I mention the hundreds, thousands of hours of labor I've got wrapped up in my grow? Even with only 2-3 patients there is always work to be done in there, every day. There are no weekends off or holidays. Forget taking a vacation, or leaving for more than a couple days--that grow room has to be looked after. This is what I do for a living and yes it's a full time job.

 

Also, how many people are truly capable of growing high quality cannabis? There is a lot to it and there is definitely a learning curve. We'd all like to believe "anyone can grow a weed" but have you seen some of the crap quality marijuana floating around the markets? A lot of people have no pride in their product because they're in it only for the money, and they have no interest in doing what it takes to produce really high quality product. As long as it's "good enough" and sells that's all they care about.

 

Last but not least, let's not forget security. It's not the patients that are getting their doors kicked in at midnight by armed thugs, it's the caregivers. Patients have their own risks of course but caregivers are the ones taking the big legal risk here, right below dispensary owners. It's not paranoia if they really are out to get ya, and security worries keep us up at night. Even more so if we actually attempt to make a profit from our efforts. Even if we stay within the letter of the law we risk investigation, jail time, and having our lives ruined by an unsympathetic judge. And then if we do succeed in gaining a little extra spending money for ourselves we are derided by people on this forum screaming about "COMPASSION" and calling us greedy. No matter how far we go, what sacrifices we make, or what risks we take to bring high quality meds to the table there is always someone who's dissatisfied and calls us rectumholes for not doing more.

 

So to the original poster, I would agree with the person who said that you need to start saving up and buy an ounce at a time, AND start meeting at his place. This whole meeting halfway thing is nonsense unless it's the first couple of times (paranoia), simply because where are you going to meet? In a parking lot somewhere? People can and will call the cops and you will get unwanted attention sooner or later. Been there done that. I had my car ripped apart by uniformed thugs after a MMJ delivery, and not a single f--k was given by them as to what damage was done in the process. It's best to conduct patient-caregiver deals at one's home, where security is maximized for both parties. Since the caregiver is the one putting in all the work and most of the risk, I suggest you go the extra mile and go the extra few miles to his house for the meeting. I suspect relations between you will improve considerably after this. The mold thing is inexcusable, but hopefully that was just a one time deal caused by a problem in his grow. He might not have even been aware of it so definitely (politely!) bring it to his attention, and see how he responds!

 

Good luck!

[Catfinger]

Thank god theres actually people out there who live in reality still.

 

Zoolander gets it!

 

I can just imagine a newbie who barely even knows how to set up a grow yet none the less run one coming on here expecting to get 4 oz./plant on thier first grow as if those results just magically happen with zero experience.

[Irishgreen]

I think the point is.......The CG should be COMMUNICATING if there is an issue with the patient.

 

It sounded like the CG was not making contact to explain if there even WAS a problem.

[Estimated Prophet]

Dump him. Any caregiver that can't handle a quad a week is either incompetent or crooked or both.

[kjd111]

Amen Zoolander. Learning to grow has taken me a couple of years and I still encounter a problem here and there. I now am proud of my grows. Keep on learning!~

[zoolander]

I think the point is.......The CG should be COMMUNICATING if there is an issue with the patient.

 

It sounded like the CG was not making contact to explain if there even WAS a problem.

 

 

I agree with what you're saying and you're right. I think both the patient and caregiver here (and people in general, everywhere) should do a better job of communicating their intentions/needs. It's a difficult problem because nobody wants to offend or make the other person think they are ungrateful, but is necessary for a healthy CG-PT relationship.

[+Silverblue]

I have an idea how to help the communication process: Write it down! Make a list of what is expected and what can be given. This way it would help sort through the feelings, needs, priorities, and help the person verbalize their needs. The other part of it is to see it from the other's perspective. Do some mental roleplaying. I hope this idea helps someone. It's helped me in other subjects. Then the 2 have to sit down and talk. The pt can start with what they need and what they hope for, the cg can say what they can give and what they hope for. Then they can work out an agreement, perhaps compromise. Don't be afraid to express your needs. I know it's scary but if we don't, it causes more trouble, because people make assumptions and have expectations which were not verbalized. Expectations and assumptions cause more stress and trouble than anything else,due to lack of communication. If you're afraid to express your needs and concerns, it'll hurt not only you, but the person trying to help. No one can provide a service if they don't know what's needed, and no one can have what they need if they don't know how to ask for it. These ideas apply in all aspects of life. A cg/pt relationship is like any other relationship in that it requires participation from both sides. It takes courage and practice to get comfortable expressing ourselves well; it may work one time in that situation and not so well in another, but when there are people depending on each other, there has to be an open dialogue or it's just gonna break down into trouble. I've had communication problems with my cg and had to keep trying. It was stressful but eventually it got worked out.

 

If, after all that effort, it does not work out, then it's time to find someone else. If there's a problem and someone's afraid to tell it, write it down and send it, have copies and make sure it's acknowledged, especially if there's a change in the plan, like, changing cg's or dropping a pt. etc. Make it official. Verbal agreements need to be put in writing, ti help keep track of what was agreed on, what will be provided, how it will be compensated for, and any other details. This also helps people remember the details of their situation and agreement. So, in case an important detail is forgotten, ya get yer handy dandy agreement out and say, "This here says you agreed to..." and "I agreed to..." This also protects each person, so one can't say, for example, "you told you'd give me 1 free oz each month," but the cg could say, "no I didn't, I said every other month." If they each had a copy of an agreement, that misunderstanding is avoided.

 

I had written letters to my cg and kept them on file in case I needed them. Writing them helped me sort through what I really needed to say and make sure the most important concerns weren't left out. My situation worked out ok, but if it didn't, I would've written up an agreement and asked the cg to go over it with me and if it was acceptable, to sign it, otherwise we'd part ways, hopefully without any hard feelings, and look for someone else. Having an agreement written down and signed right away cold solve a lot of problems. I would do it that way from now on if I were renewing my card. From now on, whatever the situation, if there's no written agreement, there's no service.

 

Communication is a lost art, it seems. It has 2 parts, explaining, and listening. After listening, the listener needs to explain it in their own way, to make sure the message was understood. It may take time and seem redundant, but if more people did this, it'd clear up a lot of problems, and prevent many more. When someone tells me something, I sometimes repeat to them what they just said, but in a question. Sometimes, when someone hears their own words echoed back to them, it helps them make sure they did make their message clear. Sometimes, I just tell it in my own words. Either way, they can be sure I understand them. If I misunderstood, that'd be cleared up right away. So, if I say, "I can give you 1 free oz, you can ask, "How often can you give me 1 free oz'", if they're not specific, for example.

 

The whole problem with communication is, it isn't being taught right. I'm no expert on this, but I speak from experience, after making thousands of mistakes, if not more, and I will make many more mistakes, too, though I keep trying to avoid it.

 

Sb

[+itssortalegal10]

My patients get the 1st zip free every month,after that its 250$ all day.

The CG is either incompetent or selling your meds for profit,either way there is no excuse for blowing off a patient.

That kind of treatment really rubs me raw.

Well blowing off a patient is never good..Dont be mistaken when you read this..Patients are the most important thing...HOWEVER you do not have to give any of your meds away for free...I mean honestly I gave away what I can when I can..I was only able to grow for one patient for a long time and just now got another..In fact I am at a loss as to how a grower has free stuff just laying around to give away when a patient signs on..I mean you are giving away someones meds to someone else..We all know that you cant grow and bloom a plant in a month so either someone is holding more than they should be or they are giving away another patients meds or giving away their own and I am not sure how I feel about that..

 

Like my new patient understands that one day I will be able to give free whatevers to her when we get there to that point. However she also understands the plants take time to do what they need to do..Not to mention I dont know how you all are set on cash but like buying a second light right now just isnt gonna happen..I am making due with the one I got.

 

And as far as selling overages...I mean technically you are only allowed to hold 2.5 oz's for the patient and they get 2.5..Now I understand there are tricks people can use like marking cure times on jars and such but honestly I am not sure that the police would really give two craps what you mark on a jar if they were there to bust you..I mean we all know that even though its not as tasty dry and not jar cured it is still usable...

 

Then you take into consideration that the law also says you need to have a steady supply of meds for your patients...HOWEVER it really doesnt say how you are suppose to do that other than any way you can pretty much....See these are all things that need to be addressed in this law..But not by senators and representatives by us..

 

So you cant hold on to more than two point five or so oz's at one time for your patient, that leaves you the choice to take donations for the rest and hopefully make some decent upgrades to your rooms which in turn help your patient...I mean this isnt cheap to do unless you are doing it in one of those outdoor secure locked facilities, and there is always room for upgrades and improvement..Not to mention if you cant afford to keep your lights turned on your not growing a da mn thing lol

I want to make it clear though, you should NEVER ignore a patient.

[jinxykatgirl]

Not at all i know of at least 5 people in my network who provide at around that same cost i think you wont have any problom finding a caregiver willing to work with you

 

 

Do you happen to know any caregivers in St Joseph County? Have been out of meds a long time and having a rough time. I might possibly have a new cg but would take a month before I would get meds. Interested in P2P, overages, any kind of help I can get. Jinxykat

[jinxykatgirl]

Hi Catfinger! Are you looking for patients at this time or have any overages? I'm a card carrying disabled patient in St Joseph county and haven't had any luck in getting meds. Ty! Jinxykat

 

$60 per quarter is a decent price, but....

 

I dont speak for everyone, or for that matter anyone, but myself as a CG I give my patients 1/2 zip free every harvest and I harvest once/month. (So 1 oz. free on a standard 70 day harvest cycle)

After that if they want more, they can then donate at the same price you are getting a 1/4 for but thats after they get thier monthly free quota. You should be getting something without charge right off the top, thats standard protocol. My free meds my patients receive are NOT lower, leafy, airy buds either, they are the top quality that one would expect.....and you should also have similar expectations from someone who was graced with your plants numbers.