Cass County Vanderbutts Trial

[bobandtorey]

And I am Sure 1 Person needs 48 plants plus garbage bags full look not knowing the full extent of exactly what the cops found and not being a jerk or trying to tinkle any one off i am just saying lets be smart about it i could see 24 but 48 that is a little much for 1 person all i am saying is you all think its horrablre to stay with in the law i hhave read it and i get it but why push the limits unless you want it to go back to we cant grow anything.

 

like New Jersey

[bobandtorey]

like New Jersey

 

 

Can patients grow their own marijuana?

No. Patients will not be permitted to grow their own marijuana.

[chi_guy]

48 plants is not a lot. I am so glad the affirmative defense was included in the michigan medical marihuana act. Because they knew leo were going to still go after patients over extra plants. I agree with the statement that who are we to judge how much is too much. This patient could be using medibles which require a lot of plant material, also could have been making tinctures or hash which also use a lot of plant material. I also believe this patient has cancer, it is well known that Simpson oil is used commonly for medical marijuana cancer patients. it takes a pound of dried usable material to make nearly 2.5 oz of Simpson Oil. We are so quick to jump all over patients who have more plants or meds then "we" think they need, without having any evidence that the patient was selling meds to people who don't have medical necessity. Is there any evidence against this man that he was selling his cannabis on the street? If there isn't maybe the cops should do their jobs and investigate people distributing cannabis to the street rather than continuing to harass medical patients.

[Kingpinn]

Looks like a good case for keeping within your numbers. But the stems and roots and cutting counts is what makes me think 18 months is pretty stiff. But better than the Big House. Sounds like there are plenty of points to appeal seeings how the court system in cass county doesnt know the law in the manner it should. Bet if you gave these people a test on the MMJ law they would fail

 

Good Luck Matt

Looks like you have our hands full

[lkline300]

When we do our pruning most probably have what some would consider 40+ plants with all the cuttings on the floor or in the garbage bag.

 

Everyone grows plants that produce no more than 2.5 oz ? & Are able to cure properly and have USABLE medicine while staying within this limit?

 

The AD is a pretty important part of our law & winning this appeal will go along way towards strengthening it & protecting us from LEO's ability to turn a clipping into a plant. What is usable, what does drying material count toward, plant/usable? This will matter less if this one falls in our favor............

[phaquetoo]

Looks like a good case for keeping within your numbers. But the stems and roots and cutting counts is what makes me think 18 months is pretty stiff. But better than the Big House. Sounds like there are plenty of points to appeal seeings how the court system in cass county doesnt know the law in the manner it should. Bet if you gave these people a test on the MMJ law they would fail

 

Good Luck Matt

Looks like you have our hands full

 

 

bro Id rather go to the big house if I got 18 months! fricking county time sucks and is hard! you dont want to be with the same idiots most of the time your in jail? or look at the same walls! Jail sucks period! and no one should be in jail for growing a plant?

Peace!

Jim

[peanutbutter]

bro Id rather go to the big house if I got 18 months! fricking county time sucks and is hard! you dont want to be with the same idiots most of the time your in jail? or look at the same walls! Jail sucks period! and no one should be in jail for growing a plant?

Peace!

Jim

 

18 months probation

[phaquetoo]

18 months probation

 

 

My Bad!

[Guest Wayne]

All things considered Bud came out of this without suffering long term incarceration. The opportunities for appeal look promising also. Good luck Bud. Keep your head and spirits high, they may brand you criminal but most know differently.

[bobandtorey]

When we do our pruning most probably have what some would consider 40+ plants with all the cuttings on the floor or in the garbage bag.

 

Everyone grows plants that produce no more than 2.5 oz ? & Are able to cure properly and have USABLE medicine while staying within this limit?

 

The AD is a pretty important part of our law & winning this appeal will go along way towards strengthening it & protecting us from LEO's ability to turn a clipping into a plant. What is usable, what does drying material count toward, plant/usable? This will matter less if this one falls in our favor............

 

The AD is solid i hope the courts hear his appeal

[Murph]

Matt Able did NOT agree it was an excessive amount under the law.

 

 

 

Hey Scottybud!! you got that last digit in the phone number? I went to call this "Lou" and discovered the missing digit.

 

Several things .. 17 oz of dry weight .. That number is vastly incorrect. It is very unfortunate that the judge allowed the jurors to think that stalks counted according to state law. They do not. Stalks are excluded in both the state controlled substance act and the medical marijuana act. Yet a garbage bag full of stalks were included in the weight total. If those stalks are illegal, then they need to raid local hardware stores and bust those hardware store drug dealers for selling hemp rope.

 

Next .. reasonable amounts.

 

This law has two levels of protection.

 

One level of protection prevents a person from being arrested. That is the protection that the ID card is supposed to provide.

 

The second level of protection prevents a person from being convicted in a court of law.

 

The protection from conviction:

Section 8 of the law. This is the section of the law that deals with what takes place in a courtroom.

 

What the ID card does is identify someone as having been vetted out by the state itself. The state has verified that the patient has a valid doctors letter. The officer on the street doesn't have to determine that fact. It is already established by the state itself via the MDCH.

 

In theory, if a person is within limits of 12/2.5 and a couple of other factors, the person in question will be screened out of any court proceedings. This reduces court docket load. Or is supposed to work out that way. Supposed to make a lot less paperwork for everyone.

 

So if the person has not had this "pre-screening" done, then the courtroom procedures of section 8 of the law come into play.

This section is a catch all section. When a closer look needs to be done.

 

The twelve plant and 2.5 ounce limits that keep a person from inside the courtroom no longer apply as limits. Their existence tends to support that those numbers would be reasonable amounts for every approved patient that has their ID card. And a reasonable amount for every single unregistered patient in the state also.

 

For courtroom standards, the 12 plant 2.5 ounce amounts need to be viewed as minimums. And that the courtroom standards for section 8 of the law overrule the minimum amounts set as "reasonable" within the section which covers every single patient in the state.

 

I have more for this .. I'll try to add more later.

 

Peanutbutter,,

 

Some of your arguments are great and very sound -- however, in reading on, your comment "screened out" is not correct, there is NO ONE TO SCREEN

ANYTHING, as this does not happen in our system !! No one in our Judicial systems "screens" anything -- the Defendant is the one who needs to stand up and fight otherwise your going down !

 

What does happen if your arrested you need to PROVE your in compliance with the Law. I know, I know, it is NOT supposed to be this way.

 

Problem is the powers that be can do what they want, and if they get a sympathetic (to them) JUDGE then you could very well be tried and CONVICTED. Again, it is the Defendant who has to prove your right, you complied with the law 100% (and then some).

 

It is the DEFENDANT'S Responsibility if convicted wrongfully to then APPEAL and get a Court of Appeals panel (3 Appellate Judges) to Order the Conviction vacated or

reversed for some reason (again, the DEFENDANT'S responsibility to come up with the reasons) why the LEO (law enforcement officers) did not comply

with or follow the law, and/or why the COURT (e.g. Judge) erred and did not comply with the law. The trial courts are the bottom, so one can appeal and appeal and appeal -- and should if they did nothing wrong, but again,YOU BUY YOUR JUSTICE IN AMERICA !

 

This is how it works. The onus is on the DEFENDANT and fighting the Gov. is not cheap as you know, many costs involved, so LEO usually picks

on the poorest "schmuck" they can find and force them (due to their poverty and inability to fund their defence or get a good criminal Defense lawyer) to accept a cop, or a plea deal --WALA, no trial, no proof what happened (even if the cops violated every right in the book, if you plea out, its over). Pleas are really NOT good for defendants -- especially innocent ones who have no money. If arrested it is time to fight for your life -- just like you were drowning, it is going to be over fast, in months, and it will affect the rest of your LIFE!

So

this is how our jails and prisons are full of innocent people -- NOT TO MENTION 45% or so is MARIJUANA RELATED - let me say that again our Jails and PRISONS ARE FULL OF INNOCENT PEOPLE !! They did nothing wrong. They

did not break they law factually, they are factually INNOCENT --- they just could not afford to vindicate their rights in Court due to the high costs !! This is America, you pay for your Justice here as no one is going to "SCREEN" anything out --- you are the screen!

The faster people know this the better MONEY IS THE KEY TO IT ALL AS IT GETS THE PEOPLE YOU NEED ON YOUR SIDE.

And you better have big money available at a moments notice because again, it happens VERY FAST.

 

Sorry, but facts are facts, just because people ignore them, or do not know, does not change them -- YOU BUY YOUR JUSTICE WITH A darn GOOD FIGHTING, EXPERIENCED LAWYER WHO CARES ABOUT JUSTICE (about 5% of the Lawyers in America, probably less) !!

 

This happens EVERY DAY IN MICHIGAN, IN AMERICA ... HUNDREDS OF CONVICTIONS EVERY DAY !! Lots are not guilty, some are completely innocent.

 

People used to chuckle "yeah, everyone in jail says "I'm innocent" -- well after years and years, Barry Scheck started the Innocence Project, and one started at U of M Law School and time after time students have PROVEN that people are INNOCENT, they are not supposed to be in jail as they did NOT DO "IT" !!

 

Read this:

 

http://abcnews.go.co...tory?id=8803820

 

They have PROVED IT, and we now, as Citizens are not chuckling any more as it costs a fortune to incarcerate (sure we need to have Prisons for Murders, Rapists, Molesters, theives, but we also need to make 100% sure they did what they are alleged to have done to break the law and we don't do that -- we have assembly line Justice for most the people, the wealthy have the best available on a moments notice, as money is the grease...it controls everything!! And the worst thing is ANYONE THAT IS NOT WEALTHY IS AT SERIOUS RISK OF WRONGFUL CONVICTION EVEN IF THEY ARE 100% INNOCENT, SO THAT MEANS 99% OF THE AMERICAN CITIZENS.

 

IF YOU CANNOT FIGHT AND HAVE $10k To $50k instantly available you could be

next on the way to Prison! Better keep that in mind if you want to stay free. Join the ACLU. Question, Question and get active. Fight this as it is not supposed to be this way, but it is.

 

And All it takes is for you to catch the gaze of Law Enforcement!

Now I want to say some in Law Enforcement (LEO) are upright Honorable Men (as I have met some and know some), however, some are as

dirty and corrupt as it gets and think "everyone is guilty" - and the major problem is the good ones do not, or cannot,

chase out the bad apples ...its called the "thin blue line" -- they stick together - good, bad, and ugly -- sad state of affairs in LEO, but hey, the facts are the facts and this is a well known fact !

 

I live in the real world, not in the "as I hope it is world." And I have learned you better fight hard and fight fast -- if you come into contact with LEO keep your mouth shut except to say: "I WANT A LAWYER."

 

Every field of work has good, and bad, workers - Law Enforcement, the Judiciary are not exempt from this.They often pick winners and losers

arbitrarily, so DON'T BELIEVE WHAT YOU HEAR, DON'T JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS BECAUSE SOMEONE IS ARRESTED !

It is on the Defendant to vindicate their rights in court and it is VERY expensive. Court Appointed

Lawyers are mainly "lawyer-jokes" as they are new, green lawyers in their first jobs--would you want a new Doctor operating on you? No, you want someone who does it every day for years and years and went to the best schools. You want the best as your freedom and treasure is on the line, sometime your entire life is on the line.

 

Some Court Appointed Lawyers are good lawyers, but they soon learn Court Appointments will NOT make any money (and they went to school to make money, not give away 8 years of schooling that cost $100,000.00 +). Some are in it for the reason they want to help innocent people jammed in the system, but they are few and far between. And in Michigan our indigent defense system has been broken (and UnConstitutional) for decades. We just pay more in taxes as the DOC budget is more than the Education budget (we pay more of our taxes to incarcerate people than to educate children -- what does that tell you)?

 

If arrested, sell the house, the car, SELL everything and go hire a darn GOOD CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, Geoff Figer is a fighter (but does not usually do criminal cases, but his firm does). Finding a good Lawyer takes some work too, It might take a month to do so.... odds are you get the money-hungry ones who do not care as the good ones are HARD TO FIND as they are really busy as everyone who knows wants them -- who do the Lawyers and Judges who get in trouble hire? That's who you want.

 

Sorry for the rant, but this is the USA's "dirty little secret" and the more than know it the better -- when someone is on the News being arrested DO NOT ASSUME THEY ARE GUILTY AND ODDS ARE, THEY ARE NOT !! It is the best criminal justice system in the World, but it is greased by CASH, and if you do not have any CASH, you got nothing coming !!

 

Welcome to America !

 

Murph

Jaxnorml@yahoo.com

[peanutbutter]

Peanutbutter,,

 

Some of your arguments are great and very sound -- however, in reading on, your comment "screened out" is not correct, there is NO ONE TO SCREEN ANYTHING, as this does not happen in our system !! No one in our Judicial systems "screens" anything -- the Defendant is the one who needs to stand up and fight otherwise your going down !

 

What does happen if your arrested you need to PROVE your in compliance with the Law. I know, I know, it is NOT supposed to be this way.

 

Problem is the powers that be can do what they want, and if they get a sympathetic (to them) JUDGE then you could very well be tried and CONVICTED. Again, it is the Defendant who has to prove your right, you complied with the law 100% (and then some).

-- snip --

 

So the card doesn't do anything at all .. got it.

[bobandtorey]

The AD is solid i hope the courts hear his appeal

 

i wounder how things are going with his Appeal