Little Yellow Flower?

[Gangie]

Ok, NL#5, almost done flowering, I see 1 small yellow flower amongst the hairs, whats going on??, the buds are gerrting nice and hard, loaded full of tric's smells great, but whats up with the flowrer?

[Grow Thread]

Ok, NL#5, almost done flowering, I see 1 small yellow flower amongst the hairs, whats going on??, the buds are gerrting nice and hard, loaded full of tric's smells great, but whats up with the flowrer?

 

as long as there are only one or two sacs, this is very common with many n.l. phenos.... especially if the plant has not been pollinated. just pick them out and let her finish up....

 

this is a male preflower. if left alone, the plant will attempt to pollinate itself.... thus producing feminized or "clone" seeds.

[Nemosity]

Hmm... I'd say it sprouted a male flower. If it's open, you'll have lot's of seeds. Even one flower can pollinate many buds. Hopefully you plucked it before it opened, and hopefully there aren't many girls around. Misting them can lessen the spread of pollen, but if it's open already, it may be too late.

 

 

----Nemo

[porcupine]

A lot, if not most strains can throw out a few male flowers very late in flowering. This is a last ditch attempt at mating so the species can survive. The odds are that this is NOT an indication of a hermaphrodite trait. If that was the case you would more than likely see many male flowers.The pollen might not even be fertile, but just in case you don't want any possible seeds pick the flowers off as soon as you see them. Spray the area with water lightly. Do this as early as you can during the light cycle so it dries and doesn't cause a mold problem. This will ensure that any mature fertile pollen that has come in contact with any pistils(hairs) is nullified. You must spray within ten minutes or it can fertilize the ovary.

[Grow Thread]

A lot, if not most strains can throw out a few male flowers very late in flowering. This is a last ditch attempt at mating so the species can survive. The odds are that this is NOT an indication of a hermaphrodite trait. If that was the case you would more than likely see many male flowers.The pollen might not even be fertile, but just in case you don't want any possible seeds pick the flowers off as soon as you see them. Spray the area with water lightly. Do this as early as you can during the light cycle so it dries and doesn't cause a mold problem. This will ensure that any mature fertile pollen that has come in contact with any stigmas(hairs) is nullified. You must spray within ten minutes or it can fertilize the ovary.

 

lol, good post.... i was just coming back to say something very similar. yeah, a couple male flowers is totally normal, as i stated above. but here is a pic of a plant that did turn hermie due to stress. the grower had an accident with only a couple weeks left in flowering and had a light leak. that caused enough stress to create this:

 

[Gangie]

...Ok its like really close to done, the buds just seem to be getting harder, like buds on buds., but just like 1-3 flowers, just on the tips., so it is possible for it to still reproduce<by its-self>?, being that close to done?, And would they be "feminized" seeds, meaning the seeds will be females?

[porcupine]

...Ok its like really close to done, the buds just seem to be getting harder, like buds on buds., but just like 1-3 flowers, just on the tips., so it is possible for it to still reproduce<by its-self>?, being that close to done?, And would they be "feminized" seeds, meaning the seeds will be females?

They would be feminized but it is probably too late to pollinate and produce seeds. If the flowers have not opened yet try to pull the whole flower of with tweezers or hemostats and put the flowers in a clean film roll container or other small airtight container and leave the top off for a few days so the flowers dry. Spray the area lightly with water in case any stray pollen falls on the area to inactivate it as you want your plant to put all it's energy into finishing and not trying to reproduce simultaneously. After the flowers are dry seal the container and refridgerate. If the pollen in the flowers is mature and fertile you can try selectively pollinate one of your next plants earlier in the flowering cycle. If the pollen is good you will get female seeds in only the places you chose to pollinate.

[Gangie]

Nice, very informative, where ever you get your info, I suppose it makes sence, I've always wondered how they would come up with feminized seeds, Thanx

[zazook]

Hello,

 

Those small yellow pollen fingers are called " nanners" by most because they resemble a banana. Some strains produce these late in flowering regardless of stress levels and other strains won't produse them at all unless they are stressed.Most times they are produced too late in the flowering cycle to effect any seed production but as another stated you can collect them and use them to pollinate another earlier flowered plant. If you pollinate a clone of the plant that produced the nanners you will get a selfing( feminized ) result with the seeds.

[porcupine]

Nice, very informative, where ever you get your info, I suppose it makes sence, I've always wondered how they would come up with feminized seeds, Thanx

Just a lot of exerperience and learning. That is how seeds are feminized, although the true process of feminizing vary's from different breeders so beware of cheap fems as the breeder may have not done a thorough selection process to eliminate any chances that the hermaphrodite trait is not what is causing the male flowers to make the pollen. A good breeder will stress his females in various ways, mostly by severely altering the light cycle to make sure the female doesn't turn hermie. When the breeder finds a female that does not herm, they then use various methods to induce the female to produce flowers, usually through the use of certain chemicals or hormones. They then use the pollen produced to make all female seeds by cross pollinating another female that has also been tested to assure that she has no hermaphrodite traits. This way you are pretty much assured that the female seeds grown do not turn into herms if you make a little mistake.

[tricloud]

as long as there are only one or two sacs, this is very common with many n.l. phenos.... especially if the plant has not been pollinated. just pick them out and let her finish up....

 

this is a male preflower. if left alone, the plant will attempt to pollinate itself.... thus producing feminized or "clone" seeds.

 

These are NOT going to be feminized seeds, they are hermie seeds. Real feminized seeds are made from a female plant that does NOT produce pollen under normal growing conditions.

 

Real breeders only use pollen from stable females that do NOT hermie under normal growing conditions. Stable females are stressed by keeping them in flower way too long or by using Gibberellic acid.

 

By using that pollen on itself or another plant you are strengthening the hermie trait. If you grow out hermie seeds you will likely be growing more hermie plants.

 

Lets quit misinforming people that hermie pollen creates feminized seeds.

 

I personally don't go for feminized seeds at all and think it's irresponsible to use pollen created by a female plant to make seeds. If you do happen to create something nice, that gene will still be in there waiting to creep out and ruin somebodies breeding project or grow somewhere down the road.

 

Sure sometimes accidents happen and when it happens to me I crush each and every one of those seeds when I find them. Sometimes a patient will find a stray seed and ask if they think it's worth growing and I always tell them no. There are too many quality bred genetics out there. Why take chances with hermie genetics? You only get to grow 12 plants ya know.

[porcupine]

These are NOT going to be feminized seeds, they are hermie seeds.

 

Lets quit misinforming people that hermie pollen creates feminized seeds.

 

 

No one here was talking about using hemie pollen. The original posters male flowers are most likely NOT a herm. They are just trying to save their genetics through a last ditch effort by trying to mate at the very END of the flowering cycle. However the plant has not been tested for the herm trait so we can't be positive that it does not carry the trait.

A herm will generally produce many flowers for no reason or because the grower has slipped up somehow and stressed the plants.

I used to be the same way as you with your opinion on feminized seeds but they have come a long way since their inception and I have subsequently changed my mind on them. If feminized PROPERLY with a selection process there is NO hermaphrodite trait to pass on in subsequent generations.

[Grow Thread]

No one here was talking about using hemie pollen. The original posters male flowers are most likely NOT a herm. They are just trying to save their genetics through a last ditch effort by trying to mate at the very END of the flowering cycle. However the plant has not been tested for the herm trait so we can't be positive that it does not carry the trait.

A herm will generally produce many flowers for no reason or because the grower has slipped up somehow and stressed the plants.

I used to be the same way as you with your opinion on feminized seeds but they have come a long way since their inception and I have subsequently changed my mind on them. If feminized PROPERLY with a selection process there is NO hermaphrodite trait to pass on in subsequent generations.

 

thank you for typing that out for me

 

saved me time in defending myself.

[Grow Thread]

Lets quit misinforming people that hermie pollen creates feminized seeds.

 

 

 

i am sure you read something too fast or something man.... in fact, they WILL be true feminized clone seeds.

 

 

slow is good.

press in the clutch and downshift. you are going to be ok.

[tricloud]

i am sure you read something too fast or something man.... in fact, they WILL be true feminized clone seeds.

 

slow is good.

press in the clutch and downshift. you are going to be ok.

 

The term feminized in the marijuana "breeding" industry means no male offspring will likely occur. It doesn't mean hermaphrodite plants won't occur.

 

If a plant gets male flower parts when growing under normal conditions it's a hermie.

 

Using that pollen to do anything with is only going to enforce the trait.

 

this is a male preflower. if left alone, the plant will attempt to pollinate itself.... thus producing feminized or "clone" seeds.

 

That quote IS misinformation dude. No real breeders use pollen from such an unstable plant. If a plant shows instability under normal conditions it's a waste of time to stress it. That is the misinformation I have been referring to.

[tricloud]

Yes, but the offspring will carry this same trait. Soma is one who creates his Fem seed in this manner.

 

S1 seed is not the same as a clone.

 

Exactly. If the plant is a hybrid or polyhybrid which most plants are now days selfing it won't guarantee a single seed will produce a plant similar to the mother plant. The outcome of genetic combination's will be huge.

[Grow Thread]

The term feminized in the marijuana "breeding" industry means no male offspring will likely occur. It doesn't mean hermaphrodite plants won't occur.

 

If a plant gets male flower parts when growing under normal conditions it's a hermie.

 

Using that pollen to do anything with is only going to enforce the trait.

 

 

 

That quote IS misinformation dude. No real breeders use pollen from such an unstable plant. If a plant shows instability under normal conditions it's a waste of time to stress it. That is the misinformation I have been referring to.

 

ok dude, this will be my last post on the subject.

 

when seed breeders "do whatever they do using whatever method you want them to be using" they are in fact attempting to mimic a natural occurrence. a female marijuana plant is much like a human female in a lot of ways. one way is the desire to breed. big difference is that a pot plant can do really cool sh*t that a human can't do. in nature, in MANY marijuana strains, when the weather changes, the female plant knows it is reaching the end of her life, and if she has not yet been pollinated, the desire to reproduce and carry on the lineage increases. they will go as far as stressing themselves into producing male flowers in an effort to pollinate themselves and "carry on the family name" with a seed in the spring.

 

let's make it simple for you.............."x" and "y" chromosomes just as in humans. normally, a female "x" is pollinated by a spore from a totally separate male plant.... with "y" chromosomes. egg and sperm. male and female.

 

still with me??

 

ok.... in this case, the sperm is produced by a totally female plant. asexual reproduction at its most pure form. this plant has shown ZERO male characteristics throughout its life.... because its neither a hermie, nor a male. it is 100% female...... with nothing but "x" chromosomes. when it produces the male flower, it ALSO HAS "X" CHROMOSOMES........ a hermie will have "x" and "y" chromosomes from the very beginning..... male parts may not show up until a certain stage of developement, but the genetics have been there the whole time. if a plant is a true hermie, with "x" and "y", you will DEFINITELY see evidence of that before you hit the last week or 2 of the flower stage.

 

AND "X" PLUS "X" WILL ALWAYS EQUAL "X"................ with zero variances. the mom was 100% female and so will be the seed. this is a 100% naturally occurring thing. when your seed breeders create fem beans, they are attempting a form of this natural thing........... well, in nature, god can make it perfect..... and make it female EVERY TIME.... a TRUE CLONE of the original "mother" plant. when you attempt to play god in a laboratory, it doesn't have perfect results 100% of the time..... because your seed breeders aren't perfect.... and we ain't god.

 

the plant in question has absolutely nothing to do with feminized seeds, seed breeders, or hermaphrodite plants. bringing those items into this has caused more than enough confusion i am sure.

 

and please remember, there is no substitute for the real thing. basically everything we do indoors in the world of marijuana is to mimic something that happens naturally.

 

and people use the phrase "stressing a plant and it became a hermie" way too lightly...... no, in fact, a plant does not "become a hermie".......you stressed a female plant into producing male parts......... a hermaphrodite is born that way. a stressed plant may contain both male and female parts....... but only a true born hermie will contain both male and female genetics.

[Grow Thread]

..........freeze

[porcupine]

 

 

 

S1 seed is not the same as a clone.

I disagree, it depends on the breeder. In this specific case (the original post) you are absolutely correct that any unwanted traits would be carried on, but never the less the seeds would be identical to the female that was selfed. However, I've been running Dr. Greenthumb's clone only back crosses for years and I have not had an issue of any sorts. He would not sell these seeds if there were ANY issues or were not totally representative of the original clone, his reputation depends on it, and he has a VERY GOOD reputation. No hermaphroditic expression ever in MY personal experience (and some were inadvertently exposed to light leaks) except the Trainwreck developed a very few male flowers that had to be picked off, just like the original always does. Nearly 100% of my plants grown from his S-1 back crosses have been identical to each other and the original cut. I have run the original Bubba Kush (Katsu cut) ,Trainwreck (Arcata cut) , and the Original UK Cheese clone. There was NO difference between the S-1 seed version and the clone version except rarely, one seed in a pack can show a mutation that can happen by spontaneously recombining the chromosomes slightly different from the original plant that was selfed. The two sets of chromosomes are identical but can recombine in a slightly different pattern during the pollination procedure. This is rare but it happens.

This is why you sometimes see differences in the same clone growing right next to each other. CLONE'S CAN AND DO VARY because of spontaneous mutations that can be caused by many different reasons, usually through environmental conditions, chemicals in synthetic fertilizers, and various other stressful factors that a grower can unwittingly expose his clones to. They are not ALWAYS a perfect match to the mother but 99% usually are. The correct term I believe is called genetic drift.

When trying to continue the existence of a clone only strain through seeds, a breeder does not have the option of doing anything else than selfing the clone. If the original clone has bad traits, they would be carried on in the selfed version. That is why it is so important to select a clone only strain that doesn't have unwanted traits to make S-1 seeds. Otherwise you must do a cubing process (a type of back crossing) which never replicates the original clone, but is usually represented by the breeder as the same. Dutch Passion is a perfect example with their Strawberry Cough. It is wonderful and I love it, but it pales in comparison to the original cut they used to make their version of the strain. It was back-crossed with some other strain and cubed. There is a cubed version of Trainwreck also available from a breeder whom I can't remember, which I have sampled and it wasn't the same as the original, not even close.

It is incorrect that selfed seeds are not the same as the original plant because the original plant used will recombine its chromosomes usually to a tee, and it will almost always represent the plant it was selfed from exactly. It will also carry on any unwanted traits that were not selected out of the strain. I think that this is what you are trying to get across to everyone.

[tricloud]

ok dude, this will be my last post on the subject.

 

when seed breeders "do whatever they do using whatever method you want them to be using" they are in fact attempting to mimic a natural occurrence. a female marijuana plant is much like a human female in a lot of ways. one way is the desire to breed. big difference is that a pot plant can do really cool sh*t that a human can't do. in nature, in MANY marijuana strains, when the weather changes, the female plant knows it is reaching the end of her life, and if she has not yet been pollinated, the desire to reproduce and carry on the lineage increases. they will go as far as stressing themselves into producing male flowers in an effort to pollinate themselves and "carry on the family name" with a seed in the spring.

 

let's make it simple for you.............."x" and "y" chromosomes just as in humans. normally, a female "x" is pollinated by a spore from a totally separate male plant.... with "y" chromosomes. egg and sperm. male and female.

 

still with me??

 

ok.... in this case, the sperm is produced by a totally female plant. asexual reproduction at its most pure form. this plant has shown ZERO male characteristics throughout its life.... because its neither a hermie, nor a male. it is 100% female...... with nothing but "x" chromosomes. when it produces the male flower, it ALSO HAS "X" CHROMOSOMES........ a hermie will have "x" and "y" chromosomes from the very beginning..... male parts may not show up until a certain stage of developement, but the genetics have been there the whole time. if a plant is a true hermie, with "x" and "y", you will DEFINITELY see evidence of that before you hit the last week or 2 of the flower stage.

 

AND "X" PLUS "X" WILL ALWAYS EQUAL "X"................ with zero variances. the mom was 100% female and so will be the seed. this is a 100% naturally occurring thing. when your seed breeders create fem beans, they are attempting a form of this natural thing........... well, in nature, god can make it perfect..... and make it female EVERY TIME.... a TRUE CLONE of the original "mother" plant. when you attempt to play god in a laboratory, it doesn't have perfect results 100% of the time..... because your seed breeders aren't perfect.... and we ain't god.

 

the plant in question has absolutely nothing to do with feminized seeds, seed breeders, or hermaphrodite plants. bringing those items into this has caused more than enough confusion i am sure.

 

and please remember, there is no substitute for the real thing. basically everything we do indoors in the world of marijuana is to mimic something that happens naturally.

 

and people use the phrase "stressing a plant and it became a hermie" way too lightly...... no, in fact, a plant does not "become a hermie".......you stressed a female plant into producing male parts......... a hermaphrodite is born that way. a stressed plant may contain both male and female parts....... but only a true born hermie will contain both male and female genetics.

 

 

Yeah it sure looks good on paper don't it. I remember reading about that in the Marijuana Growers Guide which was pretty much the bible back in the day.

 

The whole problem with the xx yy theory is when a plant that exhibits both sex's is put into the breeding regieme. It don't work like that. You may not get any males in the first generation but you will probably get many plants that exhibit the both sex trait, which in my opinion is worse than a male. At least a male plant has the balls to tell the entire story lol.

 

Anyway after reading the bible I decided to make some all female seeds. I know what happens because I've done it and each generation gets worse. I've crossed out and inbred both sex plant's to normal female plants and it works the same. I messed with this personally and know that using pollen from both sex plants may not produce males but it does reinforce the both sex trait. That's how breeding works, when you use a plant that exhibits a particular trait you can expect to see that trait in at least 25% of the offspring if it's only a recessive trait and both parent plants have the recessive gene. Since the both sex trait is a common occurring trait as you admitted yourself you can expect almost any marijuana plant to carry the gene.

 

Breeding plants with the both sex trait does reinforce the trait. I can tell you that it isn't as simple as drawing a punnet square because there are different kinds of expressions of the both sex trait. It's very complicated but any good breeder knows that it's not good to use plants with undesirable traits in their breeding projects. You can bet your donkey that none of the "breeders" making feminized seeds ever use the feminized plants to breed with. I doubt they even do more than a test grow with them, if that.

[porcupine]

I'm afraid you had better do your homework. I do tissue cultures as well, and there is variation in them as well. Whenever you do propagation from seed there is always variation. Even when breeding, you have to grow out hundreds of offspring to find P1 material. Pollen chucking in a closet won't get it. A clone is a cutting of the exact same genetics as mother/father. When you disect that cutting like you do in tissue cultering you get varying phenos. Same as you would bringing the genetics back to seed.

I have done my homework, and nobody is talking about pollen "chucking"? If you go back and read carefully what was said you will find that I said selfing a plant without selection of the original plant will carry on any unwanted traits and does not get it.You are incorrect when saying there will always be variation when propogating by seed. It is true that seeds propagated using a male and female will always have some variation, but when you self a plant the chromosomes recombine exactly nearly 100% of the time and will not vary except in rare cases.

You also do not get varying phenos, the correct word is genotypes. Phenotypes express themselves through different enviornmental conditions or grower procedures. Genotypes express themselves through a different recombination of the chromosomes. So obviously some of your tissue cultures are recombining chromosomes differently (mutating)just like clones can do.

By the way, how successful are you with tissue culture? I've always been curious about it and wanted to try it but I was warned away from the over the counter kits and was told you almost have to build a sterile room to have a good success rate. I'm hoping this isn't true because I would love to learn the correct procedure. Could you start a topic on it? I would love to learn how to do it realistically. Thanks for any info.

[porcupine]

That is basically what I said and meant. Phenos are what you can see, and are caused through enviornmental conditions or growing methods making the same plant or clone look and behave differently from one gardener to the next.

You have just given the simplest, best definition I have ever heard or read. One point for you!