When Is A Cg Legally Clear To Provide Or Grow For A Pt?

[UrbanFarmer]

We've beat the "when is a patient legal?" question to death, but another thread here (http://www.michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/index.php?/topic/19552-how-to-change-caregiver/) got me to thinking.

 

The statement was made that "a REAL caregiver has meds from day one".

 

Day one of what? The same day the cg attestation is signed? Mailed in? Day one after 20 days? Day one starting when the card is received?

 

I had a kid ask me if I could provide him meds the day he signed the form. My reply was "absolutely not". What's to stop him from completing another form with another CG the next day?

 

If LEO is saying (elsewhere on this board) that just having signed paperwork is not considered legal, then if you start plants before receiving your card assigning you that patient, are those 12 plants illegal?

 

If you are already maxed out on plants for existing patients, do you immediately start using those to supply your new patient? If so, is that ethical? Do you start another 12 asap? Do you wait until the card has been returned b4 starting a new 12?

 

Just exactly when is a caregiver legally able to provide meds for a patient? When do you start a crop for a patient? When would you feel comfy transferring meds to a patient?

 

MDCH says the are going to start providing a letter of legality to pt's prior to sending out the actual card. Will CG's get one as well?

 

I can't recall off the top of my head whether the law says anything at all regarding the time frame for a CG becoming legal. You?

[ccpulsipher]

as far as im concerned if the patient has his card or paper work then as soon as they cash the check for me to be there caregiver then i can start there meds i had a patient who sent in the forms and forgot to check the box as caregiver is allowed to posses plants and got a call from the mdch and they asked her who was able to posses the plants and they corrected it right over the phone and she asked them when he could start her meds and they said after the 20 days if she is not denied and as soon as they cash the check if they already are over the 20 days now that is what i was told so take it anyway u want but i belive her so i will start all my patients meds if they have the card as soon as the check is cashed and if not after the 20 days its up to u in the long run but that is what i would do just dont let it get out that u are growing and u should not have any trouble

[UrbanFarmer]

I'm not phrasing this as a "what I can get away with' question.

[Zombiefied]

I'm not phrasing this as a "what I can get away with' question.

 

I guess it all depends on who you ask. Ask LEO: Not until you have the plastic card. Ask MDCH: Yes you are legal after 20 days, but LEO does not recognize it. Ask us: 73 years ago! But really, should be after the 20 day....

[MiMedicalMJ]

Well then to be safe you wait till you have your CG card in hand for that patient

before you add another 12 plants to your count as we have clearly seen some LE does

not respect the law as it is written and will not accept paperwork.

 

BUT

 

The way the law is written you are legal 20 days after you send in your paperwork.

Some say you are legal as soon as you can prove your paperwork was sent, some say as

soon as you can prove your check is cashed.

 

So... Answer is legally, 20 days after the paperwork is sent. LE answer, when you have

your card in hand for those particular plants.

[boroboro]

...MDCH says the are going to start providing a letter of legality to pt's prior to sending out the actual card. Will CG's get one as well?....

 

 

My patient and I have been wondering this as well.  I read about the early notification idea on a blog of some state legislator, linked to from here.  Haven't heard anything else about it since, though.  Is this idea wrapped up in the privatization of card issuing?

 

 

Seems most awkward for the caregiver waiting for their first card.  Past that a caregiver at least has 12 legal plants and should be able to provide for a few patients until the additional plants become legal.

 

 

[valleyrat79]

 

The statement was made that "a REAL caregiver has meds from day one".

 

 

Oh geez - did someone already start picking on folks? If someone has meds from day one for a new patient then they were either growing illegally or doling out another patient's meds.

[UrbanFarmer]

I guess it all depends on who you ask. Ask LEO: Not until you have the plastic card. Ask MDCH: Yes you are legal after 20 days, but LEO does not recognize it. Ask us: 73 years ago! But really, should be after the 20 day....

 

LOL, i hear ya! I've been going by LEO's rules. I like my freedom! lol

[UrbanFarmer]

Is this idea wrapped up in the privatization of card issuing?

 

Not sure, but it seems that way.

[UrbanFarmer]

Oh geez - did someone already start picking on folks? If someone has meds from day one for a new patient then they were either growing illegally or doling out another patient's meds.

 

Well, that statement was made lol. I see your post got a negative rating, lol, unfortunate, lol. Apparently someone didn't like it lol.

 

I agree with you though. That's why I posed the question of whether folks think that it's ethical to use one pt's plants to supply another, esp without their knowledge and consent. Theoretically, your existing plants belong to your existing patients and should be used to supply their needs, first and foremost.

 

I've made it clear to my patients that a) I go by leo's "must have card in hand" rules, and B) my existing patients plants belong to them, just as yours will belong to you. If I use overages from your 12 for some other patient, it will be with your knowledge and consent.

[valleyrat79]

Yeah, some folks are more than willing to whine anonymously.

 

Got a good thing going - just need to follow the rules to show that we CAN be responsible with it. Push the boundaries later.

[UrbanFarmer]

Yeah, some folks are more than willing to whine anonymously.

 

Got a good thing going - just need to follow the rules to show that we CAN be responsible with it. Push the boundaries later.

 

There are a ton of unresolved "gray areas" as it is lol

[herb green]

This is the way i see it...

 

No one owns the plants...check in the law or rules its just not there

 

If you are legal to grow you have cannabis....buds....medicine

 

If your patient becomes technically legal ...certified mail receipt...copy of application....cancelled check 21+ days old...no denial letter

 

Also I would go...physically go with each patient with paperwork etc to the post office...now you know its actually been done

 

Mail it togethter...get the certified mail...retain copies of everything and then get a copy of the receipt when it comes back...wait 21 days from check cashed...retain copy of cancelled check

 

If you are a card carrying caregiver or patient already...

 

...and all thats done and filed away under lock and key ...its a green light for distribution to that patient...but Not time to add to plant count...you can do that once you have the caregiver card issued by MDCH

 

If not already a card carrying caregiver or patient....wait for the card to grow the plants...that's it...theres not a way around without risking everything

 

No one owns plants...

 

You grow cannabis ...buds ....you get compensated when you deliver buds...not plants

 

There is no legal or ethical basis for reserving plants for specific patients

 

You may want to reserve specific buds for a patient...not plants...what does that do?

 

Its a long process if you are a caregiver only...

 

 

Better to be a patient and a caregiver if possible

 

 

In this climate of fear and police bafoonary...only grow with actual card handy!

[valleyrat79]

Herb, you make some good points.

 

However, if someone asked for a specific strain, such as a light yielding sativa, I just don't know if I would be handing it over to another patient. Need to keep the supply uninterupted. I guess it's all in how you would go about cropping. Personally, I'm going to keep a perp harvest going for my wife. Pull a plant a week or so. Seems easier to stay within the limits that way. I'd just be nervous about signing on as a cg for someone and immediately handing over meds without the paperwork having gone through the state's office AT LEAST. Never know - that patient could be working for the boys and trying to trap people in those gray areas everyone keeps talking about. I know what it says, and so do all of you - but THEY are still ignoring the text as it is, in black and white. I, for one, don't want my door kicked in and have my kids terrorized by bullies over a gray area mishap. To each his own - martyrs are the blood on the hands of progress and to all of you I wish you the best and give you thanks for your sacrifices.

 

Stay safe...

[wezy2]

We look out twenty one days and they must have proof that the state check was cashed. They can recieve product on day 21. I will not let someone suffer just because the state is slow or some caregiver has forgotten about the term "compassion." After seeing several friends go into cancer treatment and how ill they were It would never occur to me to NOT provide a medical solution for them on an immediate basis. Chemotheraphy will not wait until all of the I are dotted and t are crossed.

 

Why would any caregiver wait beyond the twenty one days(MORE like 100 days to get the card) and then get clones and then another 8-10 weeks to harvest and then another two weeks (or more) to provide a medicine. Sounds like the drug companies..or even worse. ANDDDDD if you are a caregiver and do not have any surplus product then you are not a very good caregiver to begin with.

 

Sorry but really fed up today with caregivers who can not supply meds as promised or have ridiculas time lines.

[UrbanFarmer]

We look out twenty one days and they must have proof that the state check was cashed. They can recieve product on day 21.

 

True, they can receive meds after 21 days, but that doesn't mean that leo thinks it's okay for you to have another 12 plants added to your count.

 

I will not let someone suffer just because the state is slow or some caregiver has forgotten about the term "compassion." After seeing several friends go into cancer treatment and how ill they were It would never occur to me to NOT provide a medical solution for them on an immediate basis. Chemotheraphy will not wait until all of the I are dotted and t are crossed.

 

It's also true that some leo's and prosecutors could care less about the condition of your patient if you don't have all of your I's dotted and T's crossed.

 

Why would any caregiver wait beyond the twenty one days(MORE like 100 days to get the card) and then get clones and then another 8-10 weeks to harvest and then another two weeks (or more) to provide a medicine. Sounds like the drug companies..or even worse.

 

Could it be because they know that if they're locked up then none of their patients get anything? (not to mention jacking up the rest of their life lol)

 

ANDDDDD if you are a caregiver and do not have any surplus product then you are not a very good caregiver to begin with.

 

LOL Are you a caregiver trying to maintain an uninterrupted supply for your patients while staying within the legal limits of usable product?

 

Sorry but really fed up today with caregivers who can not supply meds as promised or have ridiculas time lines.

 

It shows lol

[JayBuds]

Well my patient has his doctor recomendation and the certified mail sent to state for me that was good enough to start, I think the 20 days of 'IFFY STATUS' is a risk I am willing to take and if something happens in that 20 days (highly unlikely) I think a judge will see our side(affirmitave defense)- i think I take a bigger risk just driving to work everyday it seems more likely id be struck by lighting than end up in prison for this, my patient is suffering, by the time it I got to court we would have our cards anyway and our prosecutor says he drops cases like mine so thats my 2 cents.

[tooldini]

The system is designed to have almost everyone have surplus which is really illegal. Only 2.5oz per patient but 12 freakin plants its an accident waiting to happen LOL

[peanutbutter]

I guess it all depends on who you ask. Ask LEO: Not until you have the plastic card. Ask MDCH: Yes you are legal after 20 days, but LEO does not recognize it. Ask us: 73 years ago! But really, should be after the 20 day....

 

(Oh happy day!!) Or you could ask the voters!!

 

registered or unregistered .. on the ballot

 

Since it can be a unregistered caregiver then the card/20day stuff doesn't apply. That means the time is the moment there is a verbal agreement between them. At that moment, the AD section of the law protects them.

[phaquetoo]

We've beat the "when is a patient legal?" question to death, but another thread here (http://www.michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/index.php?/topic/19552-how-to-change-caregiver/) got me to thinking.

 

The statement was made that "a REAL caregiver has meds from day one".

 

Day one of what? The same day the cg attestation is signed? Mailed in? Day one after 20 days? Day one starting when the card is received?

 

I had a kid ask me if I could provide him meds the day he signed the form. My reply was "absolutely not". What's to stop him from completing another form with another CG the next day?

 

If LEO is saying (elsewhere on this board) that just having signed paperwork is not considered legal, then if you start plants before receiving your card assigning you that patient, are those 12 plants illegal?

 

If you are already maxed out on plants for existing patients, do you immediately start using those to supply your new patient? If so, is that ethical? Do you start another 12 asap? Do you wait until the card has been returned b4 starting a new 12?

 

Just exactly when is a caregiver legally able to provide meds for a patient? When do you start a crop for a patient? When would you feel comfy transferring meds to a patient?

 

MDCH says the are going to start providing a letter of legality to pt's prior to sending out the actual card. Will CG's get one as well?

 

I can't recall off the top of my head whether the law says anything at all regarding the time frame for a CG becoming legal. You?

 

 

Day 1 for me is the 21st day after check cashed! plane and simple. and I want to see the paper work and I want all copys from the day I sign on.

 

we all know it takes longer than 21 days to grow their mm. so as a patient with grow rites I will be prepared to offer med grade mm to my patient at day 21 after check cashed,\

 

If said patient wants dif strans than what I have to offer, I will start their stran at the same day (21)

 

or my c.g will have what patient needs, or his c.g,

 

so save a slot in your group for a patient/c.g in the county next to you,. preferably the county coming my way!

[UrbanFarmer]

I think I take a bigger risk just driving to work everyday it seems more likely id be struck by lighting than end up in prison for this, my patient is suffering, by the time it I got to court we would have our cards anyway and our prosecutor says he drops cases like mine so thats my 2 cents.

I hear ya. At my age that's too much of a risk to take. Too much to lose, even if I win in court. I inform folks of that before we fill out paperwork and advise them that if they can't wait then they should seek another CG.

 

The system is designed to have almost everyone have surplus which is really illegal. Only 2.5oz per patient but 12 freakin plants its an accident waiting to happen LOL

 

so save a slot in your group for a patient/c.g in the county next to you,. preferably the county coming my way!

 

 

Patient-CG's have it a bit differently! I wish! lol LOL Okay

[valleyrat79]

Toddini - hash man, hash... he he he...

[midwestcc]

We have heard that you can start assisting patients after they have received the paperwork, or 21 days after check is cashed?? What we do is go to the clinic with each patient. We get all paperwork completed after visit. We send in the $100 check to the state so we can monitor it and advise our patients when meds can be available so that everything is on the up and up.

 

We never run out of meds...Currently we have 6 total patients between the 2 partners running MidwestCC. We have a secure location with 2 locked rooms. So between the 2 of us we can have 10 patients. We also assist other caregivers that are without meds. If you or anyone is in need please let us know as we can help you.

 

Thanks,

[Mr X]

The one thing you guys aren't taking into account...until you flower the plant, it's only sterile hemp!! Sterile hemp is not ilegal.

[Grow Thread]

If someone has meds from day one for a new patient then they were either growing illegally or doling out another patient's meds.

 

im sure its been shoved down your throat already, but i dont care............ since it was directed at me i will shove it on down there a little further.

 

what if i am a patient myself?? i grow 12 plants for ME. and then i add a patient?? need i spell it out further?????

 

put some thought into your posts BEFORE you press that "submit" button bud................