Check Out My Plans....need Some Advice/ideas

[Magoo4242]

Hello Gang! I am back. After some serious planning and ideas and getting everything all designed on paper and ready to set up and go, My partner has had some issues and it is time to change plans for me. Instead of the large grow we where going to do in a warehouse we had available I am now going to re-plan and start this process all over again and do it on a much smaller scale, incognito (SHHH don't say anything!) and on my own 100%.

 

I obviously live here in Michigan. I am planning on setting room up in my garage. Here in lies my biggest issue.....Mother nature/Temp.

 

Basic set up and plans for 24 plant grow room:

 

1. Flower Room dimensions 4.0 feet wide by 12.5 feet long.

*Walls and ceiling insulated

* Walls and ceiling covered in white mylar

2. Lights

* 3- HydroFarm 6 1000W AC grow lights

* 3- HydroFarm Extrasun High Pressue Sodium 1000W ballasts

* 3- 1000w High Pressue Sodium bulbs.....Suggestions or preferences on a brand or make? Does it really matter?

 

3. Inlet Fans

* What would you suggest to keep the Lights cooled and also what would be needed to move air from room? I am thinking 2 HydroFarm 400CFM fans

1 to pull air from outside and cool all 3 lights. Is this enough to cool all 3 lights?

1 to pull air from outside and displace stagnet air from inside the room.

 

4. Timer for lights

* HydroFarm 4 light Power HID Controller

 

5. Digital Recycle Timer

* HydroFarm Digital Recycle timer: I had this planned from a bigger scale build. Is this needed as I am only really planning on having 2

fans? What else could this things be running? Is there another cheaper option?

 

6. Day/Night Environmental Control HydroFarm??

* Again I had this set up and designed to use when I was planning a bigger build. Now looking at my plans I am not even sure why I had this.

Is this necessary? The guy at the Hydro shop insists it still is, but didn't have the time to get into details as to why? really think I

could find a different alternative if not drop this from the plans at all.

 

7. Garage Heat!!

* In here in lies my biggest issue. Is it necessary to buy some kind of heater? Will the heat from the lights keep the room warm enough for

12 hours until they are back on? I am thinking not. Especially if I plan on moving air and displacing air with outside air. Any suggestions?

I was thinking a small elcetric heater with a thermostat (NewAir G37). But As the electric bill will be way high as it is I think this may

a bad idea? Any other cheap cost effective ideas?

 

 

Well that is pretty much it. Of course I am very open to suggestions or ideas. If you think something is overkill or I am doing something wrong or missing something please feel free to leave me some suggestions with reasons why or why not. This forum has always been great and I am looking forward to all your advice. I plan to have this room set up and running by Dec 10th.

 

Thanks,

 

Magoo

[Homes Labs]

How fimiliar are you HVAC?

 

You could use dampers that blow heat from your lamps into the room while the lights are on (if it needs it) and blow the rest into an attic (if there is one). The hot attic air will cool over night but will help with temps at night.

 

Sounds like your room is pretty sealed up (insulation wise). You could always put your veg ballasts in the bloom room for a lil more heat??

 

Good luck!

[pic book]

I envy your budget and orientation.

 

So, how many plants? Total panel and sub-panel capacity? And the controlling factors on most of the build, what are your cycle lengths and dry material goals?

 

Pre-build, a heat/AC contractor could be a great idea, they might suggest heat pump to continuously maintain temps of 65 min, 88 max, and additionally the ventilation unit installed might cycle from the same controller to supply max continually injected CO2 lights-on, simultanteously to both veg and flower rooms.

 

All my best.

[Magoo4242]

How fimiliar are you HVAC?

 

You could use dampers that blow heat from your lamps into the room while the lights are on (if it needs it) and blow the rest into an attic (if there is one). The hot attic air will cool over night but will help with temps at night.

 

Sounds like your room is pretty sealed up (insulation wise). You could always put your veg ballasts in the bloom room for a lil more heat??

 

Good luck!

 

Homelabs: I am not very familier with HVAC although consider myelf mechanically inclined enough to figure most things out with a little bit of research and trial and error.

 

I am planning on running my lights 12 hours on during the night to help heat the room during peak cold temps. I am not thinking heat is going to be an issue during lights on. I could be wrong, I sure hope not.

 

As far as running the room heat from the lights into the attic I do not this this will work for our cold temps here. My grown room is insulated all 4 walls and ceiling, but after that it is just yoru basic 3.0 car garage and the attic roof etc is not insulated and no way this air will stay warm enough for 12 hours to help offset the cold air room temps. Just my opinion but I could be wrong. Hell maybe insulating the whole garage/roof rafter etc would help make this idea work? But at that cost I am thinking I may be further ahead to just install a heater.

 

Thanks man! This is the type of ideas/ comments I am looking for. A little back and forth with a few of you and we will surely find a viable solution.

 

Surely someone else has a grow room set up in their barn garage etc.

[Magoo4242]

I envy your budget and orientation.

 

So, how many plants? Total panel and sub-panel capacity? And the controlling factors on most of the build, what are your cycle lengths and dry material goals?

 

Pre-build, a heat/AC contractor could be a great idea, they might suggest heat pump to continuously maintain temps of 65 min, 88 max, and additionally the ventilation unit installed might cycle from the same controller to supply max continually injected CO2 lights-on, simultanteously to both veg and flower rooms.

 

All my best.

 

Pic Book:

 

Yes I have an AC/Heat guy in mind (Who I recently heard is also growing)...lol but with that said I was trying to avoid using anyone and do it all myself or most as I want to be as incognito as possible. See above I heard he was growing so he obviously told someone....LOL

 

I am planning on 24 Plants in the Flowering room and then an additional 24 plants in a small veg room located right next door or even in a small room in the basement. Not sure I understand what you are asking about panel and sub panel capacity. I am sure I should know what you are talking about at this point but I do not understand exactly as I am sure I will as I get closer....give me a week to really dive in and take control of all this....lol

 

I plan on flowering 12 on and 12 off. Goal is to get at least 6oz min per plant. Realistically I think 4 oz per plant is very attainable.....Goal is 6+ though.

 

Thanks for the reply.

[Sodbuster]

Mr. Magoo: I have a similar sized room and use a small 2.5 ft. electric baseboard heater. It's hardwired to my 220v panel. Works great and will only draw about half the power of one of your 1000 watters. It was only about fifty bucks with the t-stat. Good luck.

[SublimeWind]

Hello Gang! I am back. After some serious planning and ideas and getting everything all designed on paper and ready to set up and go, My partner has had some issues and it is time to change plans for me. Instead of the large grow we where going to do in a warehouse we had available I am now going to re-plan and start this process all over again and do it on a much smaller scale, incognito (SHHH don't say anything!) and on my own 100%.

 

I obviously live here in Michigan. I am planning on setting room up in my garage. Here in lies my biggest issue.....Mother nature/Temp.

 

Basic set up and plans for 24 plant grow room:

 

1. Flower Room dimensions 4.0 feet wide by 12.5 feet long.

*Walls and ceiling insulated

* Walls and ceiling covered in white mylar

How tall? 8-10-12'..?

 

2. Lights

* 3- HydroFarm 6 1000W AC grow lights

* 3- HydroFarm Extrasun High Pressue Sodium 1000W ballasts

* 3- 1000w High Pressue Sodium bulbs.....Suggestions or preferences on a brand or make? Does it really matter?

I rock Hortilux, but I have yet to try anything else yet either

 

3. Inlet Fans

* What would you suggest to keep the Lights cooled and also what would be needed to move air from room? I am thinking 2 HydroFarm 400CFM fans

Excellent, I have an EcoPlus classic 4" that does 440 CFM, I use it to pull the heat off the top of the room.. It pulls through a homemade carbon filter and still flows real nice..

1 to pull air from outside and cool all 3 lights. Is this enough to cool all 3 lights?

I have a 200cfm duct booster fan on 2 1000w and it seems to be doing the job, the hoods don't even get warm, it's not a lot of flow, but so far so good..

1 to pull air from outside and displace stagnet air from inside the room.

See above with the 440... I also have a small homemade carbon filter on a 4" duct booster fan, that exhausts the room 24/7 to keep a negative pressure on the room at all times..

 

4. Timer for lights

* HydroFarm 4 light Power HID Controller

If you wanna pay for it, go for it, but quality electrical isn't that difficult.. I just set up a Woods Multi-Volt timer for my 2 1000w straight 240v, 10awg 40a feed and 12awg out about 4' to 2 single metal boxes with single 240v outlets... was easy once I figure out the timer..I've got 45$ in it.. and I'm well below capacity..

 

5. Digital Recycle Timer

* HydroFarm Digital Recycle timer: I had this planned from a bigger scale build. Is this needed as I am only really planning on having 2

fans? What else could this things be running? Is there another cheaper option?

 

Whatta you need it for?

 

6. Day/Night Environmental Control HydroFarm??

* Again I had this set up and designed to use when I was planning a bigger build. Now looking at my plans I am not even sure why I had this.

Is this necessary? The guy at the Hydro shop insists it still is, but didn't have the time to get into details as to why? really think I

could find a different alternative if not drop this from the plans at all.

 

Look at the Sentenal CHHC-1 enviro controller.. It looks just like this one..

 

 

 

7. Garage Heat!!

* In here in lies my biggest issue. Is it necessary to buy some kind of heater? Will the heat from the lights keep the room warm enough for

12 hours until they are back on? I am thinking not. Especially if I plan on moving air and displacing air with outside air. Any suggestions?

I was thinking a small elcetric heater with a thermostat (NewAir G37). But As the electric bill will be way high as it is I think this may

a bad idea? Any other cheap cost effective ideas?

 

I just put a 40$ oil filled radiator space heater in my room, out in the garage (just finished insulating), 12x10x12 and no problem keeping warm over night.. Put it on the controller along with your exhaust fan and Co2 an call it a night... (I just did...lol)

 

 

Well that is pretty much it. Of course I am very open to suggestions or ideas. If you think something is overkill or I am doing something wrong or missing something please feel free to leave me some suggestions with reasons why or why not. This forum has always been great and I am looking forward to all your advice. I plan to have this room set up and running by Dec 10th.

 

Thanks,

 

Magoo

 

 

See above, hope it helps, it's SUPER easy to over think things sometimes.. (ask me how I know, lol)

 

Cheers

[Homes Labs]

HVAC is heating, vent, & air cond. Im no expert by anymeans.

 

How are you scrubbing your fresh air intake?

[Homes Labs]

sublime,

 

how do you like the hydrologic?

[David Son]

I know a patient with an excellent setup in his garage, only a large flower room. The area you describe (13x4) would be way too small for 3 1000w lights. The company says a 1000w will cover a 5x5 up to 9x9 space. Use 2 1000w or 3 600's mabey? I think your box should be a couple feet wider if you can. You need room to get around, space for ballasts and fans. An important concideration is what size containers you are growing in or how large will the plants be at flowering? The light spacing and overall dimensions SHOULD be built around this. A certain size room can only produce so much weight , whether its 120 plants or 12 plants. 1 plant that produces 4 -6 oz is a fat plant IME. I do 12 plants in 20 gallon pots(big) under 2000W, with a light mover. The exact area of my containers is 12x4, almost the size of your box. So to fit 24 plant you probably would use 5 gallon containers. Mylar is not necessary.

 

As far as fans you got it. Start simple and add on more of each as the seasons change.

 

I disagree with spending so much on controllers and timers just yet...basic 15amp timers for each light work just fine. A very nice day/night temperature cutoff switch is effective and more inexpensive.. My most important environmental controller is a 15$ digital thermometer. First thing is set it up with lights on, off etc and see what you need to do to keep the eviro. proper. You may just need a cheap cycle timer to move air every 15 min... like bubblegrower says...keep in GREEN and keep it CHEAP!

 

You may need a little heater I guess but this isn't a big worry as far as extra electricity. you only need to keep it at 60 degrees.

[SublimeWind]

HVAC is heating, vent, & air cond. Im no expert by anymeans.

 

How are you scrubbing your fresh air intake?

 

Why would you want to scrub the INTAKE?

 

You scrub the exhaust to keep the smells in...

 

 

And I like the Hydrologic, it's my first RO system

[Homes Labs]

Why would you want to scrub the INTAKE?

 

You scrub the exhaust to keep the smells in...

 

 

 

Bugs and other foriegn objects. I guess I shouldnt have said scrub bc a simple inline filter will do the trick. I designed an inline filter for my intake and I could not believe the amount of crap that enter my lab before. Keep it GREEN, CHEAP and CLEAN!!

 

 

 

Ive been thinking about getting that same RO system. Worth it?

[Magoo4242]

I know a patient with an excellent setup in his garage, only a large flower room. The area you describe (13x4) would be way too small for 3 1000w lights. The company says a 1000w will cover a 5x5 up to 9x9 space. Use 2 1000w or 3 600's mabey? I think your box should be a couple feet wider if you can. You need room to get around, space for ballasts and fans. An important concideration is what size containers you are growing in or how large will the plants be at flowering? The light spacing and overall dimensions SHOULD be built around this. A certain size room can only produce so much weight , whether its 120 plants or 12 plants. 1 plant that produces 4 -6 oz is a fat plant IME. I do 12 plants in 20 gallon pots(big) under 2000W, with a light mover. The exact area of my containers is 12x4, almost the size of your box. So to fit 24 plant you probably would use 5 gallon containers. Mylar is not necessary.

 

As far as fans you got it. Start simple and add on more of each as the seasons change.

 

I disagree with spending so much on controllers and timers just yet...basic 15amp timers for each light work just fine. A very nice day/night temperature cutoff switch is effective and more inexpensive.. My most important environmental controller is a 15$ digital thermometer. First thing is set it up with lights on, off etc and see what you need to do to keep the eviro. proper. You may just need a cheap cycle timer to move air every 15 min... like bubblegrower says...keep in GREEN and keep it CHEAP!

 

You may need a little heater I guess but this isn't a big worry as far as extra electricity. you only need to keep it at 60 degrees.

 

Ok I took a guess on room size. But I just went and measured. It will be 17'x5'

 

I was hoping for 24 plants and was planning on using 3 maybe 5gal pails. Height is 8 foot ceilings. Obviously I will not overload the plants and will put in what I can fit with room for them to grow. I was thinking the 3 1000W lights for this area. You still think this is too small of an area. I was thinking a footprint of a bout 5'x5' per light.

 

I am on the fence about all these high dollar timers. and Also I was trying to spare having to shell out $700 on the environmental controller. Is one really necessary?

 

I think I am down to 3 1000W Daystar grow systems

1 inline 4 fan for cooling the lights

1 6" fan with carbon filter to vent through the roof.

Cheap timers one for each light.

A cheap timer/controller for the fans etc.

 

I think I am overthinking all this and trying to get way to technical....but that is typical how I am. I guess I need to be reeled in sometimes to help save some time, headaches, and MONEY!

[SublimeWind]

Bugs and other foriegn objects. I guess I shouldnt have said scrub bc a simple inline filter will do the trick. I designed an inline filter for my intake and I could not believe the amount of crap that enter my lab before. Keep it GREEN, CHEAP and CLEAN!!

 

 

 

Ive been thinking about getting that same RO system. Worth it?

 

 

Ahhh gotcha.. I just use window screen to filter that..

 

I like it, it's the only one I've owned, so I on't know much beyond it, but I like it.. Booster pump was necessary..

[Homes Labs]

Heres a thought...

 

For heating the bloom room at night.

Can you get an inline booster fan (like the ones at menards) hook it up to the bloom thermostat and push/pull warm air from the veg room if it needs it?

 

 

 

Im assuming your floor is concrete, how are you getting the pots/resevior off that cold floor?

[Grow Thread]

 

 

 

Ive been thinking about getting that same RO system. Worth it?

 

i have 2 hydrologic systems. i'll never buy another brand as long as they are around. love them. very efficient, affordable, and clean.

[SublimeWind]

You can see my little radiator in the lower left of the pic.. more than enough heat..

 

[rockinlespaul]

I think I am down to 3 1000W Daystar grow systems

1 inline 4 fan for cooling the lights

 

 

 

That ain't gonna work....

[Magoo4242]

I think I am down to 3 1000W Daystar grow systems

1 inline 4 fan for cooling the lights

 

 

 

That ain't gonna work....

 

/quote]

 

OK. Well I am open to suggestion or even some reason why you think that won't work? Simply that aint gonna work is not helping me at all. I appreciate any solid input you may have.

[SublimeWind]

My 200cfm duct booster fan, seems to be doing my 2-1k's nicely (upper left, hanging from the ropes)... the hoods don't even get warm...

 

 

The biggest problem is trusting a DBF for any amount of time... they just weren't meant for long term use.. There designed to come on with a furnace an off again.. So I WILL have to change this to a different set-up... I just needed to get set up and runnin..

[BubbleBerryKush]

I would switch out your light supports..you are going to need something with greater ease of lowing and lifting your lights all at once.....but your temp issues and your light venting are going to me your most difficult issues, since you dont have a ton of space....I would have to see the entire area to get an idea of what is possible (we know that aint going to happen...lol)...

 

I would not suck in room air out and push through the lights, since that will create a vacuum and the outside temp will have to much influence on the room....I would not push outside air through my lights and vent it out either, since our temps very so much and get so low, your lights or even your enclosed glass might crack or break....

 

I might just particle board the upper portion of the garage and suck AND push into that area....just make sure you have more than a ridge vent...and be prepared to not have snow on your garage roof which might look a little strange to some people.....heating is going to be tricky, I would say, keep the lights on at night (should relieve some cold issues at night) and just run a large propane heater, that way it would also take care of your CO2 levels as well......building a room is always both fun and frustrating, and as you already know, you will always end up changing things to correct unforeseen problems...

 

other than that, it looks amazing and is very close to what I am planning to do, and run the 3 1k bulbs...more light is never a bad thing......

[Intruder420]

. I assume that you will only be heating the room and not the entire garage..... That means that on a 10 degree day bringing in fresh air from the un heated portion of your garage is going to be very cold and could possibly cause undo stress on your plants. What I have done to circumvent this issue is to use a bit extra ducting and splice into my exhaust and diverting a portion of it back into the intak air so that the warm air in the room mixes with the cold ambiant air comming in effectivley buffering the colder intake air. Just my 2 cents

[Magoo4242]

. I assume that you will only be heating the room and not the entire garage..... That means that on a 10 degree day bringing in fresh air from the un heated portion of your garage is going to be very cold and could possibly cause undo stress on your plants. What I have done to circumvent this issue is to use a bit extra ducting and splice into my exhaust and diverting a portion of it back into the intak air so that the warm air in the room mixes with the cold ambiant air comming in effectivley buffering the colder intake air. Just my 2 cents

 

That is a good solution. I am really thinking that even on that 10 degree day that the air inside the unheated portion of the garage will be ok to use. I really do not think it will be too cold. Afterall the garage is closed and sealed and usually quite a bit warmer than the outside temp just being that it is out of the wind etc. Also I will be venting my room air out into the garage itself, plus I have to believe that that even though I am only heating the grow room, which is indeed insulated, that the heat from the room itself will still leak out and somewhat heat the other part of the garage somewhat.

 

Hmmm, now you have me thinking though. I have to think on your above idea some more. Really not that much more work and may help save some headaches.

[The Digital Nomad]

don't forget to warm the floor - pots sitting on the bare garage floor will have cold soil - and roots should be 10 degrees warmer than the air for best growth.

 

This might be a balance to heating the area - heating pads warm the trays under the pots, and a space heater keeps the air temp at least 62 degrees min (you have to watch the spread of temp - the spread of temp range is what causes stress) If you find your grow room is peaking at 80 degrees, you can dial in the room to stay within a reasonable temp spread - like 80 high 65 low - you want to be consistent with your temps, not subject the plant to wild temp extremes. A space heater under your grow table (instead of raising and lowering lights - you can raise and lower a table) can be the balance between warm air and warming the tray under the pots.

 

Make sure you seal the room from the outside with plastics on the walls, floor, and ceiling. Since you are in a garage, fungus, mites have a free ride on all the stuff you pull into your garage or its open door. If you seal the room - you isolate it from the air and bugs from the garages, filter your intake air with a HEPA filter meant for a furnance.

 

my pics are posted at www.thc4u.com

-DN