Warren Caregiver Shoots And Kills Intruder

[XSL]

Yeh you wouldnt think to highly of rubber rounds till you get hit with one and get knocked clear across the room. A direct shot to the head can still kill a person. Im just saying, theres other ways to protect yourself. We cant project growers as armed trigger happy killers to the media. If reports keep going this route, you can kiss your cards good bye. God knows this guy was lucky he wasnt in oakland county.

[Z71_420]

Huh, whether or not MMJ is involved he did the right thing, as did leo. i just hope its honored in this manor in every county in michigan. Comes down to it, i feel more sorry for the "victims family" than i do the victim. toss out your less leathel tactics, it just gives the perp another chance...

 

just my 2cents

[+mayorherb]

I think I'd put a hole in my ceiling as a warning shot before I'd put a hole in the kid.

 

How did he know the kid didn't have a gun..They are in Detroit.. Do you wait till they shoot you are a family memeber ? Hell NO Shoot then ask questions..They would...So do cops..

[Z71_420]

dead men tell no tales....

[Ionic7]

Seems like he learned a lesson about breaking into peoples houses. If you break into someones property or pull a weapon on them you better be sure to expect the same on you.

[Green-Nubie]

This goes to show how having multi layers to security is very important. A simple Dog could have prevented all this.. or a camera system, or a standard security system (they don't have to call the cops) they can be programed to call cell phones, neighbors..

 

 

I have always felt that shooting the perp is the last line of defense.. but don't get me wrong if they come in and get past the dogs cameras and alarm..

you can bet the perp will be shot!!!

 

But then i can sit back and tell leo i did all i could, his dumb butt still came in..

 

 

 

 

I offer my services as a security professional to all members, if you need help feel free to ask..

[flyinstringbean]

He did it right - Only leave 1 story to tell a jury!

[peanutbutter]

This goes to show how having multi layers to security is very important. A simple Dog could have prevented all this.. or a camera system, or a standard security system (they don't have to call the cops) they can be programed to call cell phones, neighbors..

 

 

I have always felt that shooting the perp is the last line of defense.. but don't get me wrong if they come in and get past the dogs cameras and alarm..

you can bet the perp will be shot!!!

 

But then i can sit back and tell leo i did all i could, his dumb butt still came in..

 

 

 

 

I offer my services as a security professional to all members, if you need help feel free to ask..

 

In my case they went around every thing you listed. Several times.

 

They would even come into my home while we were asleep and manage to leave without waking us up.

 

Makes it kinda hard to sleep.

[XSL]

Im just saying, theres less lethal ammo that will get the job done! <-- Click and read before you judge

[kirsten]

If you let people get away with robbing you they will come back and bring friends. Dogs are great defense but people here kill dogs too.

The economy is so bad and we have so few competant police officers that it has become necessary to police ourselves. I was never much of a gun person until I felt like I needed it. The criminals around here are pretty bold so having home protection is a life or death issue.

[nthlghts]

Anyone entering an occupied home illegally is aware of what they may face, therefore they have considered violence as a means to an end, So if you die for this you had it coming and someone else s life may be saved. The facts that say most are unarmed, means nothing, what when they get caught you think they will say I was going to hurt them, no they say I was not going to hurt them, generating ridiculous statistics from the mouth of a criminal. Some may choose to go in and get the loot and flee, but what happens when they are confronted, when you get between them and their fix? And rubber bullets, get a guy on meth and see what that does for ya, some real bullets may not stop him.

 

 

If God be the judge who am i to deny a speedy trial!

[DreamWarrior67]

If they make it my house they will be wishing I shot and killed them. it will be their last mistake they make.Being in the military and owning the anarchist cookbook guarantee things will be a blast. Everybody gets walked in and out for safty. Everybody!

 

I would rather be judge by 12 then carried by 6!

I'm willing to Die to protect my Family and my stuff are you will

to Die to steel it?

[XSL]

http://www.deltaforce.com/catalog/lesslethalammo.html

[Scooter]

I bought some pepper balls for my paint ball gun some time back; I mix them 2 to 1 paint vs pepper in the hopper. Makes it easy for LEO to identify any possible intruders, I'd just say "He's the guy over there in the field covered in Hot Pink paint puking with snot and tears in large amounts, officer."

 

On my attorneys advice I leave my 9mm at my fathers house, and have a double barrel dual trigger 12 gauge goose gun for home defense. Hard to hide a 30 inch barrel! I emptied some bird shot shells of their pellets and put rock salt inside, topping it off with wax.

 

Had a farmer shoot me in the butt once with that same mix when me and a few other idiot teenagers were stealin huge punkins from his place. Burned for DAYS!! I spent a good three days in the tub lol! So did a couple of others, but no one was seriously hurt; just a few well hidden scars !

[Guest Happy Guy]

I bought some pepper balls for my paint ball gun some time back; I mix them 2 to 1 paint vs pepper in the hopper. Makes it easy for LEO to identify any possible intruders, I'd just say "He's the guy over there in the field covered in Hot Pink paint puking with snot and tears in large amounts, officer."

 

On my attorneys advice I leave my 9mm at my fathers house, and have a double barrel 12 gauge goose gun for home defense. Hard to hide a 39 inch barrel! I emptied some bird shot shells of their pellets and put rock salt inside, topping it off with wax.

 

Had a farmer shoot me in the butt once with that same mix when me and a few other idiot teenagers were stealin huge punkins from his place. Burned for DAYS!! I spent a good three days in the tub lol! So did a couple of others, but no one was seriously hurt; just a few well hidden scars !

Good luck if you shoot some kids these days. They will have everything you own, stealing or not. My neighbor got chewed out by LEO for tearing a kids shirt when he was caught stealing out of his car.

[peanutbutter]

Good luck if you shoot some kids these days. They will have everything you own, stealing or not. My neighbor got chewed out by LEO for tearing a kids shirt when he was caught stealing out of his car.

 

Didn't work out that way for me.

 

His lawyer sent me a letter asking for my insurance information.

 

I sent a letter back telling him that I had no insurance to pay for someone committing a felony on my property.

 

the end.

[Guest Happy Guy]

Didn't work out that way for me.

 

His lawyer sent me a letter asking for my insurance information.

 

I sent a letter back telling him that I had no insurance to pay for someone committing a felony on my property.

 

the end.

So you are advising to shoot the kids when they try to enter your secure outdoor grow? That's the worst advice I have seen... today. LOL Put your guns away. They are not going to help you at all. Maybe you can shoot someone inside your home and get away with it. But this isn't Texas. Shoot them in your yard and you are going to jail.

[peanutbutter]

So you are advising to shoot the kids when they try to enter your secure outdoor grow? That's the worst advice I have seen... today. LOL Put your guns away. They are not going to help you at all. Maybe you can shoot someone inside your home and get away with it. But this isn't Texas. Shoot them in your yard and you are going to jail.

 

Yes .. I went to jail.

 

Not because I shot someone, but because I had marijuana plants. This was in 2007.

 

You have obviously never heard about the castle doctrine that was passed into law in Michigan a few years ago.

 

You have the right to defend yourself and other people. If those intent on committing a crime against you are headed your way and they are nearby, you can defend yourself and loved ones. It used to be that you had to retreat to the most remote corner of your home before using deadly force. The net result is that people were being sent to jail even though they were clearly defending themselves.

 

The lawmakers changed that.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine#States_with_a_Castle_Law

[Guest Happy Guy]

Yes .. I went to jail.

 

Not because I shot someone, but because I had marijuana plants. This was in 2007.

 

You have obviously never heard about the castle doctrine that was passed into law in Michigan a few years ago.

 

You have the right to defend yourself and other people. If those intent on committing a crime against you are headed your way and they are nearby, you can defend yourself and loved ones. It used to be that you had to retreat to the most remote corner of your home before using deadly force. The net result is that people were being sent to jail even though they were clearly defending themselves.

 

The lawmakers changed that.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine#States_with_a_Castle_Law

Nope. Not outdoors. Sorry. You have to be under personal threat of great bodily harm. Your plants don't count as bodies. As much as I wish you were right, you are wrong. Don't shoot them outside trying to break into your fenced in grow. You will go to jail for that. It would be much worse than losing your crop. If you see someone cutting your fence you will have to call 911 and hope the cops can get there quick enough to stop them. You could try to scare them off but no shooting unless they are shooting at you.

[peanutbutter]

Nope. Not outdoors. Sorry. You have to be under personal threat of great bodily harm. Your plants don't count as bodies. As much as I wish you were right, you are wrong. Don't shoot them outside trying to break into your fenced in grow. You will go to jail for that. It would be much worse than losing your crop. If you see someone cutting your fence you will have to call 911 and hope the cops can get there quick enough to stop them. You could try to scare them off but no shooting unless they are shooting at you.

 

In my case my grow was indoors. Inside my home.

 

I was outnumbered three to 1. My location took leo about five hours to safely enter. The only way these rippers were going to get inside was by putting a gun to our heads and demand we unlock the grow.

 

And you are in error about inside vs outside.

[Guest Happy Guy]

In my case my grow was indoors. Inside my home.

 

I was outnumbered three to 1. My location took leo about five hours to safely enter. The only way these rippers were going to get inside was by putting a gun to our heads and demand we unlock the grow.

 

And you are in error about inside vs outside.

Nope. And with your record, if they died, you would get murder 1. They could show you planned on shooting them. Premeditated. I doubt a jury would even let you off if you killed a kid. That was what we were talking about before you twisted it around. An outside grow where you shot a kid trying to break in. That was what my comment was about. You are toast if you do that. Your growing days would be over for a long time.

[peanutbutter]

Nope. And with your record, if they died, you would get murder 1. They could show you planned on shooting them. Premeditated. I doubt a jury would even let you off if you killed a kid. That was what we were talking about before you twisted it around. An outside grow where you shot a kid trying to break in. That was what my comment was about. You are toast if you do that. Your growing days would be over for a long time.

 

error again .. this thread is about an indoor grow.

 

You are correct that you are not allowed to use deadly force to protect property.

 

You ARE allowed to use deadly force when you believe deadly force is about to be used against you.

 

There has NEVER been a time when you were expected to allow them to shoot first.

 

BTW .. this was my first recorded offense. You said "with your record." What record are you talking about?

[peanutbutter]

SELF-DEFENSE ACT (EXCERPT)

Act 309 of 2006

 

 

780.972 Use of deadly force by individual not engaged in commission of crime; conditions.

 

Sec. 2.

 

(1) An individual who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses deadly force may use deadly force against another individual anywhere he or she has the legal right to be with no duty to retreat if either of the following applies:

 

(a) The individual honestly and reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the imminent death of or imminent great bodily harm to himself or herself or to another individual.

 

(b) The individual honestly and reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the imminent sexual assault of himself or herself or of another individual.

 

(2) An individual who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses force other than deadly force may use force other than deadly force against another individual anywhere he or she has the legal right to be with no duty to retreat if he or she honestly and reasonably believes that the use of that force is necessary to defend himself or herself or another individual from the imminent unlawful use of force by another individual.

 

 

See .. my entire problem is that I had marijuana plants. Without them there would probably have been no charges filed.

[peanutbutter]

PRESUMPTION REGARDING SELF-DEFENSE (EXCERPT)

Act 311 of 2006

 

 

780.951 Individual using deadly force or force other than deadly force; presumption; definitions.

 

Sec. 1.

 

(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), it is a rebuttable presumption in a civil or criminal case that an individual who uses deadly force or force other than deadly force under section 2 of the self-defense act has an honest and reasonable belief that imminent death of, sexual assault of, or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another individual will occur if both of the following apply:

 

(a) The individual against whom deadly force or force other than deadly force is used is in the process of breaking and entering a dwelling or business premises or committing home invasion or has broken and entered a dwelling or business premises or committed home invasion and is still present in the dwelling or business premises, or is unlawfully attempting to remove another individual from a dwelling, business premises, or occupied vehicle against his or her will.

 

(b) The individual using deadly force or force other than deadly force honestly and reasonably believes that the individual is engaging in conduct described in subdivision (a).

 

(2) The presumption set forth in subsection (1) does not apply if any of the following circumstances exist:

 

(a) The individual against whom deadly force or force other than deadly force is used, including an owner, lessee, or titleholder, has the legal right to be in the dwelling, business premises, or vehicle and there is not an injunction for protection from domestic violence or a written pretrial supervision order, a probation order, or a parole order of no contact against that person.

 

(b) The individual removed or being removed from the dwelling, business premises, or occupied vehicle is a child or grandchild of, or is otherwise in the lawful custody of or under the lawful guardianship of, the individual against whom deadly force or force other than deadly force is used.

 

© The individual who uses deadly force or force other than deadly force is engaged in the commission of a crime or is using the dwelling, business premises, or occupied vehicle to further the commission of a crime.

 

(d) The individual against whom deadly force or force other than deadly force is used is a peace officer who has entered or is attempting to enter a dwelling, business premises, or vehicle in the performance of his or her official duties in accordance with applicable law.

 

(e) The individual against whom deadly force or force other than deadly force is used is the spouse or former spouse of the individual using deadly force or force other than deadly force, an individual with whom the individual using deadly force or other than deadly force has or had a dating relationship, an individual with whom the individual using deadly force or other than deadly force has had a child in common, or a resident or former resident of his or her household, and the individual using deadly force or other than deadly force has a prior history of domestic violence as the aggressor.

 

(3) As used in this section:

 

(a) "Domestic violence" means that term as defined in section 1 of 1978 PA 389, MCL 400.1501.

 

(b) "Business premises" means a building or other structure used for the transaction of business, including an appurtenant structure attached to that building or other structure.

 

© "Dwelling" means a structure or shelter that is used permanently or temporarily as a place of abode, including an appurtenant structure attached to that structure or shelter.

 

(d) "Law enforcement officer of a Michigan Indian tribal police force" means a regularly employed member of a police force of a Michigan Indian tribe who is appointed pursuant to former 25 CFR 12.100 to 12.103.

 

(e) "Michigan Indian tribe" means a federally recognized Indian tribe that has trust lands located within this state.

 

(f) "Peace officer" means any of the following:

 

(i) A regularly employed member of a law enforcement agency authorized and established pursuant to law, including common law, who is responsible for the prevention and detection of crime and the enforcement of the general criminal laws of this state. Peace officer does not include a person serving solely because he or she occupies any other office or position.

 

(ii) A law enforcement officer of a Michigan Indian tribal police force.

 

(iii) The sergeant at arms or any assistant sergeant at arms of either house of the legislature who is commissioned as a police officer by that respective house of the legislature as provided by the legislative sergeant at arms police powers act, 2001 PA 185, MCL 4.381 to 4.382.

 

(iv) A law enforcement officer of a multicounty metropolitan district.

 

(v) A county prosecuting attorney's investigator sworn and fully empowered by the sheriff of that county.

 

(vi) Until December 31, 2007, a law enforcement officer of a school district in this state that has a membership of at least 20,000 pupils and that includes in its territory a city with a population of at least 180,000 as of the most recent federal decennial census.

 

(vii) A fire arson investigator from a fire department within a city with a population of not less than 750,000 who is sworn and fully empowered by the city chief of police.

 

(viii) A security employee employed by the state pursuant to section 6c of 1935 PA 59, MCL 28.6c.

 

(ix) A motor carrier officer appointed pursuant to section 6d of 1935 PA 59, MCL 28.6d.

 

(x) A police officer or public safety officer of a community college, college, or university who is authorized by the governing board of that community college, college, or university to enforce state law and the rules and ordinances of that community college, college, or university.

 

(g) "Vehicle" means a conveyance of any kind, whether or not motorized, that is designed to transport people or property.

[Guest Happy Guy]

error again .. this thread is about an indoor grow.

 

You are correct that you are not allowed to use deadly force to protect property.

 

You ARE allowed to use deadly force when you believe deadly force is about to be used against you.

 

There has NEVER been a time when you were expected to allow them to shoot first.

 

BTW .. this was my first recorded offense. You said "with your record." What record are you talking about?

Nope. My comment was a reply to a post about an outdoor grow. Go back and look. Slow down now. My comments stand as factual. If you shoot a kid trying to break into your outdoor grow you will go to jail. What part of that don't you understand? In addressing this please do not twist it all around and out of context. Thank you. When quoting you should agree or disagree with what was presented in the post you quoted. You either agree that you will go to jail for shooting a kid breaking into your outdoor grow... or you don't. This isn't personally about you. It is advice that could keep someone out of trouble.