Question About Guns An Mj

[Fat Freddy]

Just got a call from an old friend, he ask me if I had heard that the gov had passed a law prohibiting Poisson or ownership of a firearm while being a card holder. Said he heard the law had recently passed.

 

Any word on the volatility of this?

Just looking for a yay or nay. If yay, a link to any information would be helpful in discussing the issue with him.

Do not take this a trolling, I want to keep my friend safe thats why I raise the issue!!

[SFC]

Is he talking about the infamous ATF letter? That letter to my knowledge is technically not binding to the states. For instance if you apply for a CPL whether or not you use MMJ or are a cardholder is not even a question they ask.

[trix]

They don't ask, (CCW). But The rule of, having a fire arm in the house where the plants are grown is a felony..You CANNOT have a firearm antique or new, in the same home as you have ANY even one plant growing, min. mand. 2 yr felony..

 

Heard the words from the Judge, and P.A's mouth, saw them on the warrant I was served.

 

Guns can be carried while your in possesion of marijuana but it a big differance to have one in the same home while cultivating Marijuana..

 

Trix

 

I have a copy of the ATF letter on my desktop, if anyone would like it I can upload it, It basicaly speaks to sales of ammo, or weapons to a known Medical marijuana user.. doesn't speak of possesion while cultivating MM that is a 2 yr felony.

[AmishRnot4ganja]

Somewhere out West (Washington, Nevada?), a woman sued because she was denied a CCW due to medical marijuana. She won. I think our law states that a registered patient cannot be denied the rights granted to non-users. It may be a federal law they are using to deny gun rights, but if so why did the lady out West win her right to posses firearms?

[trix]

Somewhere out West (Washington, Nevada?), a woman sued because she was denied a CCW due to medical marijuana. She won. I think our law states that a registered patient cannot be denied the rights granted to non-users. It may be a federal law they are using to deny gun rights, but if so why did the lady out West win her right to posses firearms?

 

Is this the artical you are speaking of? Oregon.. I believe, dug it up from old files.. wish I could find the others and merge them all in here cause they answer just about any questions on the subject.

 

http://michiganmedic...__fromsearch__1

 

MI laws haven't changed and if you get caught here in MI with any firearm in same place you are growing marijuana, you will be charged with Felony Firearm charge.

 

I have followed this for so long and nothing has changed in our law to protect MM cultivation and possesion of Firearms. You can have a firearm on your person or residence as long as no plants are involved, so you can carry your limit while packing heat, you just can't have that firearm anywhere near the plants that are being grown, by doing so you are violating the firearms act in the law. thus getting the felony firearm charge. Marijuana is illegal. growing it is a felony in Michigan. thus making it possession of a firearm while in the commision of commiting a felony... Good luck keep the two seperate, promise that is the law I went through it personaly. But still contact a lawyer cause that I am not.

 

Things change everyday in the law, that get by w/o notice but I'm fairly sure nothing has changed since my arrest for this issue. Contact a lawyer please before entering into this situation...

 

Trix

[phaquetoo]

Is this the artical you are speaking of? Oregon.. I believe, dug it up from old files.. wish I could find the others and merge them all in here cause they answer just about any questions on the subject.

 

http://michiganmedic...__fromsearch__1

 

MI laws haven't changed and if you get caught here in MI with any firearm in same place you are growing marijuana, you will be charged with Felony Firearm charge.

 

I have followed this for so long and nothing has changed in our law to protect MM cultivation and possesion of Firearms. You can have a firearm on your person or residence as long as no plants are involved, so you can carry your limit while packing heat, you just can't have that firearm anywhere near the plants that are being grown, by doing so you are violating the firearms act in the law. thus getting the felony firearm charge. Marijuana is illegal. growing it is a felony in Michigan. thus making it possession of a firearm while in the commision of commiting a felony... Good luck keep the two seperate, promise that is the law I went through it personaly. But still contact a lawyer cause that I am not.

 

Things change everyday in the law, that get by w/o notice but I'm fairly sure nothing has changed since my arrest for this issue. Contact a lawyer please before entering into this situation...

 

Trix

 

Ok wait, now where does it say I as a care giver can not grow mm and have a gun in my home? that is .b.s, maybe the guy growing 150 plants and has several lbs and lots of cash my catch some slack for weapons!

 

But a guy like me, with a total of 5 plants growing and well under my cured amount, can have a long gun and a registered hand gun! and I can have it in my g.r, especialy when im in there working, its called a secure locked facility, and it calls for many measures to make it secure, a camera, legal weapon, etc!

 

show me where it says I cant have my hunting rifles or my registered hand guns in the same place I grow! If you can show me that in the law I will quit growing and quit getting my pt certification and keep my rights to bare arms! I may as well be ilegal using mm, because I will not give up my right to arm myself!

 

Peace

Jim

[SFC]

It has not been settled in Michigan court. I personally feel like the last thing we should do is give up our guns. Obviously there is a risk by keeping them that a over-zealous prosecutor may take a shot at you with the felony firearms statute, but we also have a good case to win against them. Stay within your plant count! That is the easiest thing to help establish compliance is the worst ever does happen.

[Beans]

My regular D.O. gave me my rec.

 

He encourages my walking at every opportunity

 

I would be gutted if I could not carry a firearm on my own property during deer season

 

Not to mention my personal protection during these difficult economic times

 

pray it never comes to that

[trix]

I'm digging deep cause I can only go so far back in my topics/posts. this was dug up from google search from this site here was MK's repsonse to the felony firearm charge... I'm telling yuh its Illegal.. You cannot have a firearm and grow in MI. call any attorney and ask. If they tell you differant I will wear the dunce cap, and finger my butt.

I will defend my stance with vigor, Unless someone can prove me otherwise... I'm not referring to the ATF letter but, possesion of a firearm while in commission of a felony(culitvation of marijuana) <------ FELONY in Michigan, regaurdless your medical stance..

 

Here is a link that you Jim/Phaq participated in back then as well,only shows page one.. I will dig untill I can't anylonger.

 

http://michiganmedic...5944-case-laws/

Michael Komorn

 

 

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 05:40 AM

It sounds to me like you are going to have to litigate the case. That means when the persecutor says no to any deals or resolving the case without a jury trial, you are going to have to put on the gloves. If you are in compliance according to section 4, there should never have been an arrest. The caregiver who who was possessing the plants, while they were stored in a locked contained room, was not committing a crime, nor where you. The issue of the gun, has been an problem. YOu are charged with the crime of felony firearm. This charge alleges that you were using the firearm in the commission of a felony, to wit the manufacturing of marihuana. To prove you guilty the prosecutor has to prove that you were using the gun, a nexus/ connection/ with the manufacturing of the marihuana. Like many cases you are finding that the prosecutor is not recognizing the law and the protection of the mmma. When this happens, the only choice you would have is to file the appropriate motions, motion to dismiss pursuant to section 4, and motion to dismiss the felony firearm charges as well. If the Judge does not dismiss, then your next choice is to take it to a jury trial. Present your case to the community, the voters, and let them make a determination if you are in compliance with the act or not. Also I believe that the caregiver will need to come forward, identify him or herself. This should be another piece of evidence that can be used effectively to assist you in your case.

I would need more information, such as weather the preliminary exam was held or waived, but from the facts that you have explained it would seem that you are protected, and i wold not plead guilty to anything at this time, or until you have exhausted your protections and remedies under the law. If you want to discuss this further, please call me. 18006563557.

i hope this is a little helpful, and gives you some hope that you have a basis to stand and fight.

 

 

Bad Axe Police Chief David W. Rothe reports Jeffery David Ellis, approximately 46, of Livonia, was charged with delivery/manufacture of a controlled substance — marijuana, which is a four-year felony; and a possession of a firearm while committing a felony, which is a two-year felony.

 

still searching,

 

 

Another source refers more to ATF letter

 

Under Michigan law, the illegal use of a firearm or other weapon can carry very harsh penalties. For example, a felony firearms conviction requires a MANDATORY two-year minimum prison sentence if it is your first offense and a MANDATORY five-year minimum prison sentence if it is your second offense. In addition, even if you possess a firearm or other weapon legally, if you use that firearm or weapon in the commission of a felony crime, your potential punishment will be greater under Michigan law. Also, a sentence for felony firearm MUST be served consecutively with any other sentence. This means that the more common concurrent sentencing cannot apply to felony firearm charges. Judges are not permitted to impose sentences less than the minimum required sentences above. Therefore, if you are under investigation or arrest for any activity related to a firearm or weapon, it is imperative that you consult with an experienced team of criminal defense attorneys immediately. Call us at 1-866-766-5245, or e-mail us using the contact form on the left!

 

Still searching for that gem that spells it out word for word. we have lawyers on this forum wish they would pipe up and save me time of searching for the old and new laws on this subject..

[Beans]

It has not been settled in Michigan court. I personally feel like the last thing we should do is give up our guns. Obviously there is a risk by keeping them that a over-zealous prosecutor may take a shot at you with the felony firearms statute, but we also have a good case to win against them. Stay within your plant count! That is the easiest thing to help establish compliance is the worst ever does happen.

I'm digging deep cause I can only go so far back in my topics/posts. this was dug up from google search from this site here was MK's repsonse to the felony firearm charge... I'm telling yuh its Illegal.. You cannot have a firearm and grow in MI. call any attorney and ask. If they tell you differant I will wear the dunce cap, and finger my butt. I will defend my stance with vigor, Unless someone can prove me otherwise... I'm not referring to the ATF letter but, possesion of a firearm while in commission of a felony(culitvation of marijuana) <------ FELONY in Michigan, regaurdless your medical stance..

 

Here is a link that you Jim/Phaq participated in back then as well,only shows page one.. I will dig untill I can't anylonger.

 

http://michiganmedic...5944-case-laws/

 

Bad Axe Police Chief David W. Rothe reports Jeffery David Ellis, approximately 46, of Livonia, was charged with delivery/manufacture of a controlled substance — marijuana, which is a four-year felony; and a possession of a firearm while committing a felony, which is a two-year felony.

 

still searching,

 

 

Another source refers more to ATF letter

 

Under Michigan law, the illegal use of a firearm or other weapon can carry very harsh penalties. For example, a felony firearms conviction requires a MANDATORY two-year minimum prison sentence if it is your first offense and a MANDATORY five-year minimum prison sentence if it is your second offense. In addition, even if you possess a firearm or other weapon legally, if you use that firearm or weapon in the commission of a felony crime, your potential punishment will be greater under Michigan law. Also, a sentence for felony firearm MUST be served consecutively with any other sentence. This means that the more common concurrent sentencing cannot apply to felony firearm charges. Judges are not permitted to impose sentences less than the minimum required sentences above. Therefore, if you are under investigation or arrest for any activity related to a firearm or weapon, it is imperative that you consult with an experienced team of criminal defense attorneys immediately. Call us at 1-866-766-5245, or e-mail us using the contact form on the left!

 

Still searching for that gem that spells it out word for word. we have lawyers on this forum wish they would pipe up and save me time of searching for the old and new laws on this subject..

 

 

Not really saying your wrong Trix

 

Just taking SFC's approach

 

That' and I trust in my constitutional rights

[trix]

For your own saftey, contact a attorney.. If you have a firearm and are in the process of cultivating Marijuana you are in violation of the federal firearms act. and will be charged with felony firearm. as much as we want to think marijuana is legal, when you reach court they will say otherwise. Marijuana is still illegal, thus your in the process of committing a felony by cultivation, therefore your are violating fedral firearm act and subject to possession of a firearm while commiting a felony..

 

Man I'm getting pissed I can't find anything over a year old on here ggrrrrr...

 

Most all users have acess to a phone pick one up if you doubt my above statments, It is not legal. to grow and matain your 2nd ammendment. true story.

 

Trix

 

I will keep searching for that thread, has ALOT of awesome info on the subject, call any lawyer to verfiy though please.

[Fat Freddy]

So in a nut shell it would be a good ideal to cultivate at a location away from where you keep your firearms.

or visa versa. That works for me for the time being. thanks for everyones input on this matter.

[trix]

Planet Greentrees For Wednesday April 13 2011 Webisode # 37 <----- discusses the rules

 

This is the webisode, that speaks from a lawyers mouth about the felony firearms law.

 

 

Whew found it, Here is a link to a thread from past court desicon.. also excerpt from the case I was refering to from the mouth of a lawyer about the differance of the two. http://michiganmedic...%20%20dismissed ,

 

Page where court ruling is disscussed http://michiganmedic...smissed__st__20

 

 

Small excerpt from the C.O.A, on the subject. http://coa.courts.mi..._298065.OPN.PDF

______________________________________________________________________________________

Defense Counsel. Another crime you have to pay attention to, and the judge is going to read to you, is possession of marijuana. And I want you to be very careful. Possession of marijuana is totally different from manufacturing marijuana . Manufacturing marijuana, the judge will tell you, is a felony.

 

Prosecutor. Objection, your honor.

 

Trial Court. Sustained.

 

Defense Counsel. Possession of marijuana—the judge will give you different crimes and, therefore, one crime she’s going to read to you is the instruction which is [sic] possession of marijuana. And if for some odd reason you feel someone possesses marijuana while in possession of a gun, that is not felony-firearm. . . . I want to make sure you understand possession of marijuana, while having a gun, is not felony-firearm. And that you have to have the gun in your possession in furtherance of the crime, to make it a felony-firearm. In rebuttal, the prosecutor did not mention possession of marijuana, but reiterated, “if you decided you are going to manufacture marijuana and have guns you’re guilty of felony-firearm.”

 

Finally, the trial court clearly instructed the jury that they must find that defendant “committed or attempted to commit the crime of manufacture of marijuana” in order to convict defendant of felony-firearm. The court also instructed the jury, “It is not necessary, however, that the defendant be convicted of [the crime of manufacture of marijuana].”Thus, the jury was not presented with confusing information regarding what was required.

 

Just thought I'd share that, cause its B.S get legal only to be arrested for your constitutional right to bear arms its a catch 22. they will win every time with this section of the law all by itself... more people own guns then cable T.V.

 

Trix

 

I think Ihave provided justifed evidence, above if not then by all means please contact a lawyer on the subject, please for your own saftey. I'm not a lawyer but have dealt first hand with this subject, still These are only my words and I'm not anyone you should take legal advice from, please remember this. I'm not a lawyer

[SFC]

That is true for sure outside the MMMA. And in a few cases already the prosecutors have used that as bait for a plea. But it has not been settled at trial. They have issued CPL's to known cardholders in several counties. It is not settled.

 

That being said the attorneys are giving the safest advice on the subject. I will not deny that.

Edited May 8, 2012 by SFC

[pic book]

For the Feds most recent take see Duvall, 4/20/12.

[phaquetoo]

For your own saftey, contact a attorney.. If you have a firearm and are in the process of cultivating Marijuana you are in violation of the federal firearms act. and will be charged with felony firearm. as much as we want to think marijuana is legal, when you reach court they will say otherwise. Marijuana is still illegal, thus your in the process of committing a felony by cultivation, therefore your are violating fedral firearm act and subject to possession of a firearm while commiting a felony..

 

Man I'm getting pissed I can't find anything over a year old on here ggrrrrr...

 

Most all users have acess to a phone pick one up if you doubt my above statments, It is not legal. to grow and matain your 2nd ammendment. true story.

 

Trix

 

I will keep searching for that thread, has ALOT of awesome info on the subject, call any lawyer to verfiy though please.

 

there is nothing in the law that states we can not have weapons (of course you cant if your a fellon already) You will not be able to find it any where in the law that states a pt or c.g who is growing can not have his or her weapons in the house, legal weapons, and registrered hand guns, all good, I know there have been cases where people had the fire arms in the same house and their grow room, I am not a fellon manufacturing weed, Im a cg with 5 plants and I own weapons and they will be in my home as long as im in my home!

 

Peace

Jim

 

edit= I dont call local leo or attny's to ask if my grow is legal, sorry im not that kind of idiot, im a different kind of idiot!

Edited May 8, 2012 by phaquetoo

[trix]

there is nothing in the law that states we can not have weapons (of course you cant if your a fellon already) You will not be able to find it any where in the law that states a pt or c.g who is growing can not have his or her weapons in the house, legal weapons, and registrered hand guns, all good, I know there have been cases where people had the fire arms in the same house and their grow room, I am not a fellon manufacturing weed, Im a cg with 5 plants and I own weapons and they will be in my home as long as im in my home!

 

Peace

Jim

 

edit= I dont call local leo or attny's to ask if my grow is legal, sorry im not that kind of idiot, im a different kind of idiot!

 

Good call btw.. attorneys can't arrest you for asking a question that defines the rules of the law. and if your growing weed your a felon.. sorry to burst your bubble..MARIJUANA IS ILLEGAL in MI. I'm going to bed... Good night/ morning w/e.

 

Edit: your in know way a idiot, I think your a geniune genious!!!

[phaquetoo]

Good call btw.. attorneys can't arrest you for asking a question that defines the rules of the law. and if your growing weed your a felon.. sorry to burst your bubble..MARIJUANA IS ILLEGAL in MI. I'm going to bed... Good night/ morning w/e.

 

Edit: your in know way a idiot, I think your a geniune genious!!!

 

how come i have a card that says im some ones c.g and can posses mmj plants if it is ilegal in mich?

you are misinforming people!

 

Peace

Jim

[trix]

your right Jim, you win. I'll hang up my skirt and resign from this position for misinforming everyone... I'm to tired and in too much pain to do this anylonger anyways.

 

Good day to you and yours...

 

Peace and alll that!

 

Trix

 

Edit:the State of Michigan has decived you is all... answer me this, how many cards have been used in court???

[DLD420]

If they know you have a card as in my case they WILL deny you getting a cpl. I had a case in 09 that let them know I had a card, the head of the gun board in Branch county was one of the PAs that was working against me in my misd poss trial, he told the rest of the board and had me come to the next months meeting . He asked if I still had a card which I didn't deny and was told they wouldn't let me have a license. When I said it was fed law and the ATFs letter not state law the PA said he had to follow all laws not just state, it did no good to argue with the redneck so I just left before saying all that I wanted to. He even said I wouldn't be ableto hunt anymore because I couldn't have a shotgun or a crossbow.

 

[SFC]

Yea, I totally believe that and it is true every county is doing it differently. Genessee for instance will grant you your CPL even with a MMJ card.

[Frank R]

Strange that registered MMJ users are having their gun rights suppressed, but the doors are wide open for Terrorists to buy all the guns -n- ammo they want.

 

I guess "they'd" rather have you working sucidice missions for the Taliban than curing your cancer with Simpson Oil.

 

[Celliach]

Nothing has changed with the gun laws since the 80s. (Thank you Nancy Reagan and your "Just Say No" campaign.) The letter the ATF put out was a reminder of what the law already was.

Nothing has changed.

[Frank R]

Awareness of the law has been increased in the community (gun owners/sellers, LEO) the ATF services.

Fear sown, mission accomplished.