Poll For Legal Caregivers

[truthBOMB]

do you tell your lawyer about your grow? what if your lawyer was on retainer for illegal S&S or essentially B&E by LEO? what if you didn't have the money for your own lawyer but there were a collective of legal representation that were available state=wide for immediate dispatch during an illegal raid?

Would a lawyer still protect a client if they were known to be outside of the law?

 

-again, just asking questions. don't want to offend, just stimulate conversation.

 

-tB

[Buck Naykid]

I would be open to inspection by the MPP or whatever IF it ment NEVER HAVEING MY DOOR KICKED IN OR MY DOGS SHOT..... I would do anything to avoid this becase with my health condition I could not handle the stress of that situation

[Budz-4-U]

I would be open to inspection by the MPP or whatever IF it ment NEVER HAVEING MY DOOR KICKED IN OR MY DOGS SHOT..... I would do anything to avoid this becase with my health condition I could not handle the stress of that situation

 

If LEO would follow the rules, this wouldn't happen. They should knock on the door, say sorry for bothering you, but we have a complaint. You show them your Card(s). They might want to do a quick plant count. They say sorry, and leave.

 

I'm not stupid, but, I think that if LEO was following the law, then that's how an encounter should go. Right ? So, we need to keep educating LEO, and/or sue them.

[truthBOMB]

If LEO would follow the rules, this wouldn't happen. They should knock on the door, say sorry for bothering you, but we have a complaint. You show them your Card(s). They might want to do a quick plant count. They say sorry, and leave.

 

I'm not stupid, but, I think that if LEO was following the law, then that's how an encounter should go. Right ? So, we need to keep educating LEO, and/or sue them.

i agree, however it takes thousands of dollars to sue the police. it takes alittle paperwork fudging to show they have probable cause to bust your door down. this is the disconnect that spurs this conversation.

I would much rather pay an annual fee for an inspection of my legal grow than a broken door, night in jail, reporting to my employer, $1000's of dollars for representation, time away from work for a trial, and a dismissal with no return of time or property lost.

easy decision for me when you weigh the options.

[dutch&Dutchess]

It would have to be a private SRO that was not concerned about enforcing MMMA but rather verifying claims of method, content etc

[Guest Wayne]

The state, county, and municipalities could all/each charge an inspection fee. Say $100 a pop. Question now is, Yearly? Monthly? Weekly? In this economy we can just leave it up to them to be reasonable, right? What's affordable got to do with it?

[esadmf]

ok then after they go through your house you now need to keep a handgun on your side because now your grow is no longer secure. you must assume that your plants are now the talk of the day between people you dont know. the odds of you being robbed are now very real. if the cops get wind that a caregiver is packing a side arm you may even be shot. and you will get busted and charged with weapons and drugs. your face will be on the tv at 6:00 pm. but by all means lets tell everyone any way.

[truthBOMB]

ok then after they go through your house you now need to keep a handgun on your side because now your grow is no longer secure. you must assume that your plants are now the talk of the day between people you dont know. the odds of you being robbed are now very real. if the cops get wind that a caregiver is packing a side arm you may even be shot. and you will get busted and charged with weapons and drugs. your face will be on the tv at 6:00 pm. but by all means lets tell everyone any way.

the talk of people you don't know? this is a business and their business is protecting their clients. no more than talk of the day between your paid law team.

 

what? This is not the spirit of this conversation. youre assuming that this reporting agency that is privatized and contracted by the caregivers/patients would run directly to the police?

the idea is that this company would regulate so the police can stand down at the door if they show. the company would have a team of lawyers that would be contracted to it's members for representation so if police violated your rights, you have immediate response and legal reps on retainer.

 

I guess I still don't understand the mentality of the community. Right now, there is no buffer between known felons (LEO) and self-regulated caregivers...this gap is as big as the grand canyon. I'm starting to understand the mentality of the police. im sure they are feeling overwhelmed by the thoughts of people being given alittle slack and running buck crazy with their rights. in the eyes of the LEO, i understand why they feel that people are taking advantage of the law.

 

there is a huge disconnect between these two parties. if no one is in place to police the police, then who's going to win? let's not forget that in order to win a case against the LEO, you have to get arrested, your stock and materials confiscated, possibly lose rights to children and property, job loss, public defemation and riticule, buy a lawyer, fight for months, just to see if you can get over it. And if you do win, you still are scarred in your community, without you gear, grow, or stock.

 

Personally, I don't want to follow this path. I would be client #1 for this type of service. I guess I'm not explaining my thoughts well b/c i can't understand if you're growing under the legal letter of the law, why someone would not want to have sometype of buffer from rogue cops.

[+itssortalegal10]

The higher count of No tells me that more than likely a lot of caregivers are abusing thier rights lol...Personally I would open my door to a group that was there for that simply to see if I am legal and if I am not they would tell me what to change. I would rather that happen than some cops beating in my door @ 3 am checking for themselves...maybe a group that reports back to the local police to inform them that the residents at this address are legal and up to code...Would be a great idea

[herb green]

I dont like this poll

 

One yes I'm Legal or two no, respect my privacy ?

 

Can I be 100% Legal AND have you respect my privacy?

 

It makes it sound like if youre legal inspections are ok

 

Or if no, then not legal stay away something to hide here

 

They dont get the option to check and see thats built in to the law ... have a copy in your hand

 

No inspections Good-bye

 

WHY? Does everyone want inspect all the time???

 

What is it? When are the COOL people going to run this country?

 

Isnt the the woodstock generation like 60 years old NOW !!! WTF man

 

BUNNY MUFFiNS !!!!!!!

[+itssortalegal10]

I dont like this poll

 

One yes I'm Legal or two no, respect my privacy ?

 

Can I be 100% Legal AND have you respect my privacy?

 

It makes it sound like if youre legal inspections are ok

 

Or if no, then not legal stay away something to hide here

 

They dont get the option to check and see thats built in to the law ... have a copy in your hand

 

No inspections Good-bye

 

WHY? Does everyone want inspect all the time???

 

What is it? When are the COOL people going to run this country?

 

Isnt the the woodstock generation like 60 years old NOW !!! WTF man

 

BUNNY MUFFiNS !!!!!!!

The woodstock generation are the ones that did an about face and raised their kids to be all PC and silly about everything...Like I always say if a chick (or dude) go out have sex and party all the time eventually they will become religious to try and make up for it or become a PC abortion rights protester or something or both...We have woodstock to thank for where we are at now in my opinion.

 

The cool people in office won't ever exist. If you are running for office it is because you want power and control, not because you care about what the people want..Obama claimed he was gonna make change with things like the banks then turned around and took tons of cash from the banks for his run for president. I think even a good or "Cool" person running for office is quickly changed into a corrupt slime bag faster than you can blink. That is how the current system is set up. Hell I am curios to know how fast anyone would turn into a jerk after being followed around and cheered at and everything from limo's to nice hotel rooms are waiting for you at every turn.

 

Why is it our politicians all have nicer houses than us? They work for us don't they? Where did the three or four nice houses come from then? Even their most modest home are nicer than most of ours...And they still feel they have some sort of right to tell us how to live our lives even though most of us are not breaking laws or hurting anyone...

 

I agree anyways....I would still take an inspection like if say the MMA decided to start something that costs like 50 bucks a visit or something...They come in and look around to make sure if you do get raided by LEO they won't find anything. Then you have the option for them to report findings to local LEO so then if they do come you can show some sort of paper that states that on such and such a date you were legal and offered the findings to local police. Then that right there might slow down these raids. Not only are you clear and inspected, you said hey this is what I am doing here and I am up to law on it so leave me alone...Then they come anyway they would look real bad and odds are would end up sued a lot for SURE! At that point they would just be blatantly harassing you.

[truthBOMB]

in the spirit of my idea, it would have nothing to do with the MMMP. not funded by them, not dispatched by them, nothing to do with them.

This would be a company CG would contract to protect them from the day their door got kicked in and their plants got ripped into 8ths and arrested for being over the limit.

the people on here that are absolutely opposed can be. I'm not enrolling you now. this would be the gustapo.

 

the spirit of this organization would be to have legal representation on retainer. the org would have documented inspections for your last umpteen grows to prove you have worked within the letter of the law. the courts would recognize this company and dismiss any accusations of the police.

hopefully the police would see your inspection paperwork by this NONGOVERNMENTAL, NON MMMP GROUP before they enter your home as you hand it to them with your MMJ card and they would say to themselves, "dang, this house is going to be legal if we bust into that locked room. how am i going to explain this to my superior when this inspection company SUES THE $CHIT OUTTA US???"

 

Saying that this private inspection group would roll on you to the police is as likely as your lawyer rolling on you when you are telling them "yea, i had a couple of drinks and got behind the wheel." "Your Honor, my client is guilty. he admitted to doing it during a meeting. convict my client and lets go to Fudruckers."

 

paranoia self-destroya.

 

believe this: unless MJ is recreationalized, some type of inspection system needs to be in place or deal with the wrath of the police at your door at 3am shooting your dog, tazing you and your wife, and robbing you under the cloak of liberty and justice. enjoy that life! I'm all about self preservation and would like to buffer myself with as many legal protective layer between me and the po po.

 

the poll is a conversation starter. lets talk....

[Zombiefied]

I am sorry but inspections will NEVER work, Someone will ALWAYS take advantage of it. Lets say, Joe Blow is gunna be inspected. Well he is over his legal limit, but an inspection wont take all to long, so he can have his friend help him "look" legal by taking plants and putting them in, lets say Joe's Bedroom, cuz that is not on the inspection list. Then gets inspected, passes, inspector leaves, puts the plants back in the room to finish up.

 

In theory, inspections would be better than getting your door kicked in, ect... I agree, but I do believe that if they are gunna kick your door in, they will, and have done it to legal, legit patients, and when they found them to be in the letter of the law, they still arrested them, and are prosecuting them.

I will not give up my rights for security from those that are there to make me feel secure!

[truthBOMB]

I am sorry but inspections will NEVER work, Someone will ALWAYS take advantage of it. Lets say, Joe Blow is gunna be inspected. Well he is over his legal limit, but an inspection wont take all to long, so he can have his friend help him "look" legal by taking plants and putting them in, lets say Joe's Bedroom, cuz that is not on the inspection list. Then gets inspected, passes, inspector leaves, puts the plants back in the room to finish up.

 

In theory, inspections would be better than getting your door kicked in, ect... I agree, but I do believe that if they are gunna kick your door in, they will, and have done it to legal, legit patients, and when they found them to be in the letter of the law, they still arrested them, and are prosecuting them.

I will not give up my rights for security from those that are there to make me feel secure!

 

well how do we keep everyone legal then? of course it's personal choice to go beyond the letter of the law and for those people I say TURN IN YOUR CARD AND GO BACK INTO HIDING.

dont ruin it for everyone. give LEO one instance of someone illegally growing, card or not, and these raids will continue.

personally, i would rather have a lawyer on retainer at all times until mj is recreationalized. this would be an affordable service to people that can't afford a reatainer or can't afford to replace their trashed grow rooms after the cops bust up the place and say, "sorry, we had a tip. good day to you, sir/ma'am."

the name of the game is keeping them off our porches. again, as many protective layers between them and my lock facility the better.

 

then how about this:

if joe grower does hide excess during his chosen inspection and is then busted, the company would be able to have legal ramifications against him as well.

 

I'm not saying this should be mandated, i'm saying there should be options, alternatives to what's happening in this state. of course if you want to always be looking over your shoulder and out your window 24/7 while you're legally able to grow, that's your gray hairs growing. I would rather have a back-up plan that involves my lawyers and a judge that's not flying by the seat of his gown when my prosparity is on the line.

[westmich]

Because I am a 100% legal I ask you to respect my privacy. Start by searching all of the non-caregivers homes and then come back with the stupid question.

[Bisharoo]

As long as a free human does not infringe on the rights of another human to live for their own sake, then the aforementioned human has no need of being inspected by anyone. Any adult that is free and does not infringe on any others' rights have no need of inspections.

"If a nation values anything more than freedom,

it will lose its freedom; and the irony of it is

that if it is comfort or money that it values more,

it will lose that, too."

by:

W. Somerset Maugham

Do we not see that we are not supposed to be comfortable until all people are free??!!

 

Most of you do see, I know, and thanks to you folks who get it.

[+budhabit]

On my first raid they came in and seen that I was in compliance with state law that is why they did not take my plants but that did not stop them coming about 3 months later and take every thing and I was still in compliance from my experience I vote no on inspection come on how can any one give complete trust in the government

[+itssortalegal10]

I am sorry but inspections will NEVER work, Someone will ALWAYS take advantage of it. Lets say, Joe Blow is gunna be inspected. Well he is over his legal limit, but an inspection wont take all to long, so he can have his friend help him "look" legal by taking plants and putting them in, lets say Joe's Bedroom, cuz that is not on the inspection list. Then gets inspected, passes, inspector leaves, puts the plants back in the room to finish up.

 

In theory, inspections would be better than getting your door kicked in, ect... I agree, but I do believe that if they are gunna kick your door in, they will, and have done it to legal, legit patients, and when they found them to be in the letter of the law, they still arrested them, and are prosecuting them.

I will not give up my rights for security from those that are there to make me feel secure!

True so the way to fix that would be you get inspected randomly. I mean if you are truly legal wtf would you care lol....I dunno I see everyones point but being new to this and what not it would be nice to have a knowledgable person come in and say legal not legal so you could get up to legal speed...Then give you the option of allowing them to report these findings to the local police. My worst fear is that even though I am a third of a mile off of the road on 18 acres someone may still see a grow op and report it and if I show up as legal at this address then we are all good no need to bust in my doors....I mean for real this is a small town and on last friday i put an envelope in the mail being sent to the mm division of the health department rofl...Now the mailman has a rough idea of what we will be or are doing here now...And how many people do mailmen know in small towns? And even still put it in a box uptown..Same pos office same small town.

 

In other words I would raher be inspected by someone I choose rather than the police just cuz someone heard or saw I grow here....Then after it is reported if they come, you would have a piece of paper that says you had your LEGAL GROW reported to the police and tell them if they come still that at this point it is harrassment. I think that would help A LOT in many of these raid cases on legal growers.

[truthBOMB]

Because I am a 100% legal I ask you to respect my privacy. Start by searching all of the non-caregivers homes and then come back with the stupid question.

i do respect your privacy. i also abide by the law. what's a stupid question?

 

do the police respect your right to privacy? do you think that b/c you present a card at the door the LEO will stop from pushing you aside and handcuffing you in the middle of the night while they destroy the interior of your house and trash your medical grow? stop by the patient forums and read about all our brothers and sisters dealing with this very topic. genetics destroyed that will never come back. homes lost. equipment confiscated. jobs lost. lives destroyed...all of these stories told by people who were following the law to the letter. stopped the police at the door, presented their cg cards, and the stories begin....

who is the the ultimate judge of legality? the courts...but the courts aren't at your door at 3am. the unchecked police are. and my friend, you no doubt follow the letter of the law, but this law doesn't exist in some Michigan towns and I hope that you are not in one.

So quick to snap at this idea of a team of contracted Michigan compassionate lawyers under your retainer, ready to assist the moment you see LEO under your porchlight. so fast to assume that these privately contracted regulators would roll on you. the idea is that you HIRE them to ensure you are operating within your legal rights and to ensure the police know it WITHOUT HAVING TO STEP INTO YOUR HOME.

Open your eyes, youve got your name on up to 5 patient's cards. all they have to do is turn one over. when you have no control what happens to one of your patients, why wouldn't you want to protect yourself? they usually will think it's a good idea to just "check it out." KNOCK KNOCK.

probable cause is a son-of-a-gun. anonymous tip? solid in michigan.

I've seen police reports and how quick they are to report the "convenient truth" of what they see. heck, i've been dismissed for misrepresentation on a police report...and my offense was NOTHING compared to the penalty of breaking MCL 333.26430.

[truthBOMB]

True so the way to fix that would be you get inspected randomly. I mean if you are truly legal wtf would you care lol....I dunno I see everyones point but being new to this and what not it would be nice to have a knowledgable person come in and say legal not legal so you could get up to legal speed...Then give you the option of allowing them to report these findings to the local police. My worst fear is that even though I am a third of a mile off of the road on 18 acres someone may still see a grow op and report it and if I show up as legal at this address then we are all good no need to bust in my doors....I mean for real this is a small town and on last friday i put an envelope in the mail being sent to the mm division of the health department rofl...Now the mailman has a rough idea of what we will be or are doing here now...And how many people do mailmen know in small towns? And even still put it in a box uptown..Same pos office same small town.

 

In other words I would raher be inspected by someone I choose rather than the police just cuz someone heard or saw I grow here....Then after it is reported if they come, you would have a piece of paper that says you had your LEGAL GROW reported to the police and tell them if they come still that at this point it is harrassment. I think that would help A LOT in many of these raid cases on legal growers.

absolutely.

I managed the kitchen of a major chain restaurant. we personally, as a company, hired a firm that would come do the most harsh inspection, holding us accountable for every minor infraction.

 

beauty was, they never reported to the state. when the state came for their yearly: we never hit below a 98%.

 

I never have said once, nor hinted to this private contract inspection agency to report anything to the police. never. they are a legal barrier between the police and your grow lab. period.

 

My word against a police record in court will never win. My team of lawyers and documentation of regulated legal grows by a state recognized LLC with precedent and clout versus Barney Phife and his merry band of tree rippers with the magic nose to find those "wiley dope fiends" would have at least a shot.

[Bisharoo]

Just asking, my intent here is not to be argumentative, I truly want to clarify this, are we saying we are willing to trade freedom for comfort?

 

"If a nation values anything more than freedom,

it will lose its freedom; and the irony of it is

that if it is comfort or money that it values more,

it will lose that, too." by:W. Somerset Maugham

 

So, are we throwing in the towel for a few more years hoping that some comfortable arrangement will keep us out of harms way (until that policy or group changes their mind)?? Is this the best we can do?? Will this insure that our next generations will not have to fight this same struggle??

 

[+itssortalegal10]

absolutely.

I managed the kitchen of a major chain restaurant. we personally, as a company, hired a firm that would come do the most harsh inspection, holding us accountable for every minor infraction.

 

beauty was, they never reported to the state. when the state came for their yearly: we never hit below a 98%.

 

I never have said once, nor hinted to this private contract inspection agency to report anything to the police. never. they are a legal barrier between the police and your grow lab. period.

 

My word against a police record in court will never win. My team of lawyers and documentation of regulated legal grows by a state recognized LLC with precedent and clout versus Barney Phife and his merry band of tree rippers with the magic nose to find those "wiley dope fiends" would have at least a shot.

No I was the one that said I would want this agency to report to local police. Stating I am legal and good so basically don't bother. Once they do that I would want a paper stating this was done. Just for me so if they did come I could say look here is this you knew I was legal...In the end though it probably wouldnt be a good idea because LEO can lie better than anyone and if they wanted me to look guilty I would....Paper or not. Like them weighing a cake in Petoskey I think and counting it as weight of weed...

[+itssortalegal10]

Just asking, my intent here is not to be argumentative, I truly want to clarify this, are we saying we are willing to trade freedom for comfort?

 

"If a nation values anything more than freedom,

it will lose its freedom; and the irony of it is

that if it is comfort or money that it values more,

it will lose that, too." by:W. Somerset Maugham

 

So, are we throwing in the towel for a few more years hoping that some comfortable arrangement will keep us out of harms way (until that policy or group changes their mind)?? Is this the best we can do?? Will this insure that our next generations will not have to fight this same struggle??

Yes...And how is it trading freedom for anything if YOU are the one that calls the firm that inspects? Trading freedom would be us allowing a law to pass that says the STATE can come inspect you...It sounds to me he is taling about a private group you would contact to come surprise inspect you LIKE the state would at YOUR request...I got ithat from the start, it was me that added they should offer you the option of reporting a Legal Grow to the police. Not that they would just do that automatically. Everything would be up to YOU...

 

It would be for those of us (it sounds like) that maybe don't keep all the way up to speed on new laws or changes or even the MM law in general. Or like paranoid dudes who just want to ease thier own mind a bit...Pot and paranoid go hand in hand...

[Bisharoo]

Yes...And how is it trading freedom for anything if YOU are the one that calls the firm that inspects? Trading freedom would be us allowing a law to pass that says the STATE can come inspect you...It sounds to me he is taling about a private group you would contact to come surprise inspect you LIKE the state would at YOUR request...I got ithat from the start, it was me that added they should offer you the option of reporting a Legal Grow to the police. Not that they would just do that automatically. Everything would be up to YOU...

 

It would be for those of us (it sounds like) that maybe don't keep all the way up to speed on new laws or changes or even the MM law in general. Or like paranoid dudes who just want to ease thier own mind a bit...Pot and paranoid go hand in hand...

 

I totally see your point, but it is just sad that we are begging for crumbs from the bountiful table of freedom and rights when we in fact own the table and all the food. Not judges or police or lawmakers. It is ours by the very fact that we exist. Now asserting our individual human rights is a different matter, now that we have become overrun by stateists in power, but we have done it before and were warned we would be called on to assert our individual human rights again. Is this the time?

[+itssortalegal10]

I totally see your point, but it is just sad that we are begging for crumbs from the bountiful table of freedom and rights when we in fact own the table and all the food. Not judges or police or lawmakers. It is ours by the very fact that we exist. Now asserting our individual human rights is a different matter, now that we have become overrun by stateists in power, but we have done it before and were warned we would be called on to assert our individual human rights again. Is this the time?

I agree but when people are losing children and homes and so much more simply for doing something legal they want to be sure they are legal. I think any caregiver or patient with anything in this world worris when it will all go away due to thier use of the MM law. Peace of mind is a good thing no matter what is going on in this country