Called Out At The Post Office

[Sledge]

I just sent my renewal in on 12-1, sent it certified with confirmation.

They signed for it on 12-2 and I got the return card on the 3rd.

Not as good as the check being cashed but at least I know that

they received it & I have proof of it,

[Broken]

You should do everything to CYA.

 

1.) Send the application certified/registered mail so they have to sign for it and then you get the little green post card back in the mail to you.

 

2.) Hopefully, the applicant has a bank account and you can print up the cancelled check.

 

 

We all know the card-waiting time is around 4-5 months as of right now.

 

It's far better to be safe and to protect yourself, your belongings, and your home, car, etc...than to just put a stamp on it and hope for the best.

 

 

Mizerman

 

First off I'm sorry that this happened, there's no reason that the person should have done what they did.

 

Don't really understand the danger of sending your envelope with just stamps? My bank sends me a copy of the check, plus there's a copy of the check in the online banking statement you could just print.

 

If that's not enough you could probably get a statement signed at the bank i guess.

 

my wife and I just used a drop box, I'm not to worried about anything.

[mibrains]

sorry

i cant resist

i think there needs to be some clarifications.

it does not matter if you send your paperwork certified return receipt, it does not matter if u carry a copy of cashed, cleared check, it dosent matter what day you sent your paperwork in or what day they receive it.

any lawyer worth their salt will tell u

all that matters in a court of law is a signed original copy of your licensed physicians statement. anything after that does not matter until you have your card. the MDCH cannot argue the validity of a doctor patient relationship. if your doctor says you will benefit, then you are in the program, barring any clerical errors in the process.

case in point

you have your cert, send in the paperwork, use certified mail have copy of cashed check, have all possible documentation to show you sent the papers and they have them. what happens when 90 days later when your actual file is reviewed and you forgot to sign your application? you are rejected based on a clerical error, this is the only thing that can postpone your card (a clerical error of some sort).

the state can not and will not argue the validity of your doctors recommendation at this level.

you must then resubmit your paperwork and fill out the form correctly.

are you less legal now under the assumed defense rules? think about it, the assumed defense is the only thing that you have to protect yourself once your doctor signs your paperwork, until your actual card arrives.

docent matter when they cashed your check or received your application from a legal standpoint if you made any mistakes on your submitted forms.

IMHO your are at the highest level of protection, only when you have your card

your are legal once the doctor signs your certification.

everything else in between is levels of arguable but not winnable Grey areas.

just thought i would chime in

no offense meant

peace

[Broken]

sorry

i cant resist

i think there needs to be some clarifications.

it does not matter if you send your paperwork certified return receipt, it does not matter if u carry a copy of cashed, cleared check, it dosent matter what day you sent your paperwork in or what day they receive it.

any lawyer worth their salt will tell u

all that matters in a court of law is a signed original copy of your licensed physicians statement. anything after that does not matter until you have your card. the MDCH cannot argue the validity of a doctor patient relationship. if your doctor says you will benefit, then you are in the program, barring any clerical errors in the process.

case in point

you have your cert, send in the paperwork, use certified mail have copy of cashed check, have all possible documentation to show you sent the papers and they have them. what happens when 90 days later when your actual file is reviewed and you forgot to sign your application? you are rejected based on a clerical error, this is the only thing that can postpone your card (a clerical error of some sort).

the state can not and will not argue the validity of your doctors recommendation at this level.

you must then resubmit your paperwork and fill out the form correctly.

are you less legal now under the assumed defense rules? think about it, the assumed defense is the only thing that you have to protect yourself once your doctor signs your paperwork, until your actual card arrives.

docent matter when they cashed your check or received your application from a legal standpoint if you made any mistakes on your submitted forms.

IMHO your are at the highest level of protection, only when you have your card

your are legal once the doctor signs your certification.

everything else in between is levels of arguable but not winnable Grey areas.

just thought i would chime in

no offense meant

peace

 

Hmmm... I think that most people are talking about this... retrieved from http://www.michigan.gov/mdch/0,1607,7-132-27417_51869---,00.html

 

# Complete applications, change forms and reapplications for previous denials are then processed in the date order in which they are received. If a denial letter is not received, then the application is deemed valid. The statute currently allows for a copy of the application submitted to serve as a valid registry identification if the card is not issued within 20 days of its submission to the department. At this time, we are unable to issue valid registry identification cards within the statutory time frame with the resources available to us. Currently staff is issuing registry identification cards for valid applications received at the end of August. We continue to review and revise our processing methods in order to more efficiently process and issue the valid registry cards.

 

It does say that you only need the application, but you have to prove that they have had their 20 days... that's where the check comes into play.

[mibrains]

a great arguable Grey area

you have to ask yourself "who" is it coming into play for?

the application is deemed valid if not rejected within 20 days, but what if it is rejected. then this person comes to a dispensary or CC anyways but does not bring their denial, just all the supporting docs up to the denial, who would know about the denial? would they not be assumed legal because they have the canceled check, mail return rec, doc app, everything in order? been plenty of time? they just neglected to supply denial letter? who would know?

seems like an unlikely scenario

if your paperwork is in order, you wont be denied...bottom line...

once you submit your paperwork, and it is in order then by all means keep copies...i did, i still have them with me at all times.....i assume to be over prepared

i suppose my point is..... it's all legal semantics if you boil it down to any rational scenario...all else considered.... once your doc signs your certification, you have a arguable defense and are thereby legal by lack of other definition.

so if Leo pulls you over, and you have meds on you....ya had better have triplicates of every single paper ever issued to you since you first even thought of applying for your card....i would....did...and do still....they don't play fair so over prepared is OK.

 

 

Hmmm... I think that most people are talking about this... retrieved from http://www.michigan....1869---,00.html

 

# Complete applications, change forms and reapplications for previous denials are then processed in the date order in which they are received. If a denial letter is not received, then the application is deemed valid. The statute currently allows for a copy of the application submitted to serve as a valid registry identification if the card is not issued within 20 days of its submission to the department. At this time, we are unable to issue valid registry identification cards within the statutory time frame with the resources available to us. Currently staff is issuing registry identification cards for valid applications received at the end of August. We continue to review and revise our processing methods in order to more efficiently process and issue the valid registry cards.

 

It does say that you only need the application, but you have to prove that they have had their 20 days... that's where the check comes into play.

[Broken]

oh yeah i understand what you're saying, and not arguing... People just want to play it as safe as possible. I'm really not sure how it works, when you go to a dispensary do they ask for both a copy of when the check when cashed and the doctor application, or just the doctor application?

[mibrains]

oh yeah i understand what you're saying, and not arguing... People just want to play it as safe as possible. I'm really not sure how it works, when you go to a dispensary do they ask for both a copy of the check and when it was cashed or just the doctor application?

 

 

right right...no arguing here either, I'm just curious too how people are feeling about the way the act is being interprited...

i have not been to a dispensary as of yet, so i couldn't say mostly because i hear they are asking $10 to upwards of $25 grm..

not cool by me so i haven't even bothered with them...

not to mention they are kinda high risk it seems like at the moment..

[Broken]

I don't think that there's much of a risk if you are a patient and buying meds... If anyone's at risk it's the dispensary.

[Mr. Wilson]

The State police have already said that they do not accept any paperwork as a substitute for a valid card, because anyone could have been rejected and the police would not know of that rejection. So they have to treat everyone without a card as a suspect, paperwork or no paperwork.

 

All the other police,???, who knows, some take paperwork, some don't, some don't even know what it is.

 

So it's safe to assume that paperwork won't stop you from being arrested in some cases, but it will be helpful at your trial.

[Broken]

where did you see that state police wont accept paperwork? not calling you a liar or anything would just like to read it.

[Michigan Medical Gardens]

Not a big deal.... ignorance sucks. She shouldn't have freaked out. choose your battles wisely... i agree.

[peanutbutter]

The State police have already said that they do not accept any paperwork as a substitute for a valid card, because anyone could have been rejected and the police would not know of that rejection. So they have to treat everyone without a card as a suspect, paperwork or no paperwork.

 

Old news ..

 

I went before congress in Lansing and got that fixed.

 

Showed them a bottle of peanutbutters topical oil at the same time

[Highlander]

Old news ..

 

I went before congress in Lansing and got that fixed.

 

Showed them a bottle of peanutbutters topical oil at the same time

 

Nice pat on your own back there, but I have at least one example that shows this isn't fixed with the MSP.

[peanutbutter]

Nice pat on your own back there, but I have at least one example that shows this isn't fixed with the MSP.

 

Where and when?

[Highlander]

Where and when?

 

I'm not sure if I can provide additional information due to a possible civil rights suit, but I'll check that and get back to you.

 

People need to be aware that MSP officers will take directions from the county PA. As I understand it, officers are directed to contact the PA if a situation is encountered where a person asserts medical purposes for MJ. So there is not a uniform application of procedure across the state. Individual county PAs are making their own decisions - not necessarily the MSP officer on the street.

[Highlander]

I'm not sure if I can provide additional information due to a possible civil rights suit, but I'll check that and get back to you.

 

People need to be aware that MSP officers will take directions from the county PA. As I understand it, officers are directed to contact the PA if a situation is encountered where a person asserts medical purposes for MJ. So there is not a uniform application of procedure across the state. Individual county PAs are making their own decisions - not necessarily the MSP officer on the street.

 

Maybe the better approach for me to take here is to ask what exactly went down that resulted in MSP (reportedly) fixing this problem. Is there a memo, news story - something, that we can print out and put into our folder of ammunition should we encounter MSP with only paperwork - something that can show the officer what the 'new' MSP policy is? This is very important. If the problem is fixed, then bully for you and I retract my snide "pat on the back" remark and offer my humble gratitude and apology. If this problem is fixed, we need something more than a guy on the internet saying that it is - ya know?

[+RevThad]

Paperwork does not need to be registered or certified mail. State cashed my check two days after mailed with a stamp.

From MDCH:

 

Question: Do I need to keep a copy of my application and any other information I send to the MMMP?

 

Answer: Yes. If your application has not yet been approved, denied or terminated you may provide law enforcement with a copy of your written documentation submitted to the department; you must also submit proof of the date of mailing or other transmission of the documentation.

 

A cashed check does not prove transmission of the documentation or the date of mailing.

[peanutbutter]

Maybe the better approach for me to take here is to ask what exactly went down that resulted in MSP (reportedly) fixing this problem. Is there a memo, news story - something, that we can print out and put into our folder of ammunition should we encounter MSP with only paperwork - something that can show the officer what the 'new' MSP policy is? This is very important. If the problem is fixed, then bully for you and I retract my snide "pat on the back" remark and offer my humble gratitude and apology. If this problem is fixed, we need something more than a guy on the internet saying that it is - ya know?

 

You might call Cushingberrys office. What I showed to congress was that the state was breaking the law in a way that put innocent people in jail.

 

They break the law and we go to jail for it.

 

The congressmen were appalled that this status could exist. I showed them the MSP memo while reps from the MSP and the MDCH were there. In their faces.

 

The action that the members of congress took was to command the MDCH to be in conformity with the 20 day deadline. They were instructed to do so by Sept 15 2010. If they failed to do so, the job of issuing ID cards would be farmed out to an outside party.

 

The proposed amendment to the state budget was passed with a 100% vote. Congressmen were angry.

 

The congressmen then contacted the office of the AG to insure that they could carry out the proposed action against the MDCH. The office of the AG looked at the proposed action and determined that it couldn't be done.

 

Why could the change not take place? Confidentiality. The MDCH could not hand the information to anyone at all.

 

The MSP is now very aware of what paperwork represents. Yet they are still instructed to contact the PA. The problem is with local PA's. Not the MSP.

 

If you have a problem with a MSP officer not respecting 20 day old paperwork, call the office of the congressman.

He would like to know the exact officer involved, the date and the PA that authorized the false arrest.

[Guest Happy Guy]

The MSP is still going to consider paperwork anyone can make on their printer unverified until it is verified. They consider that their job. Some more than others. That's reality.

[Highlander]

You might call Cushingberrys office. What I showed to congress was that the state was breaking the law in a way that put innocent people in jail.

 

They break the law and we go to jail for it.

 

The congressmen were appalled that this status could exist. I showed them the MSP memo while reps from the MSP and the MDCH were there. In their faces.

 

The action that the members of congress took was to command the MDCH to be in conformity with the 20 day deadline. They were instructed to do so by Sept 15 2010. If they failed to do so, the job of issuing ID cards would be farmed out to an outside party.

 

The proposed amendment to the state budget was passed with a 100% vote. Congressmen were angry.

 

The congressmen then contacted the office of the AG to insure that they could carry out the proposed action against the MDCH. The office of the AG looked at the proposed action and determined that it couldn't be done.

 

Why could the change not take place? Confidentiality. The MDCH could not hand the information to anyone at all.

 

The MSP is now very aware of what paperwork represents. Yet they are still instructed to contact the PA. The problem is with local PA's. Not the MSP.

 

If you have a problem with a MSP officer not respecting 20 day old paperwork, call the office of the congressman.

He would like to know the exact officer involved, the date and the PA that authorized the false arrest.

 

OK, so the problem has been identified and explained to the legislature. I don't see how the problem has been fixed.

[peanutbutter]

The MSP is still going to consider paperwork anyone can make on their printer unverified until it is verified. They consider that their job. Some more than others. That's reality.

 

So ignoring little things like the law is their job?

[peanutbutter]

OK, so the problem has been identified and explained to the legislature. I don't see how the problem has been fixed.

 

And it was shown to the MSP at the hearing.

 

If a local PA ignores the law doesn't mean that the entire MSP are doing so.

 

If a single MSP officer doesn't understand that element of the law, it doesn't mean that the entire MSP are doing so.

 

That just identifies a single officer that needs to be educated.

 

The MSP seems to have become more relaxed about mmj. They seem to understand much more than local leo does about the new law.

 

So has the "fix" gone 100%? Obviously no.

 

But if we can identify those that don't understand yet, those individuals can be educated. It's currently mop up phase.

[Highlander]

I guess we have differing ideas of what "fixed" means.

[+EdwardGlen]

I just sent my renewal in on 12-1, sent it certified with confirmation.

They signed for it on 12-2 and I got the return card on the 3rd.

Not as good as the check being cashed but at least I know that

they received it & I have proof of it,

Superman work at that post office? 72 hour turn around belongs in the Guinness Book of Records.

[+EdwardGlen]

We took one of the people we are helping with a ride and postage to the post office to send off their applications to the post office and it turned into a cluster flock.

 

When she was called to the counter and explained her mailing choices the woman behind the counter in a loud voice asked her co-worker three windows down "when someone is sending for a marijuana card does it have to go registered mail" you could of heard a pin drop.

 

'Tammy' objected to women mentioning what the mail was for and left with out continuing the mailing.

 

This women was in tears and mad as hell for what that women did to her in front of at least thirty total strangers, maybe.It is her local post office and its possible there was a neighbor that she didn't see or a friend of a friend.

 

She has contacted an attorney and I will let the community know if anything comes from this.

 

From reading some of the replies I see why some patients go to jail. Here's the follow up.

 

She received a call from post office with an apology but not from clerk

 

No law suit planned or mentioned

 

No ones business what she does in her home there could of been neighbors in the post office. Another reason patients go to jail bragging about what they're doing.

 

Sent application certified for proof

 

This lady is fighting cancer so the post office doesn't scare her so she'll fight whom she wants. She has bigger balls than a lot of men I know I can tell you that.

 

She never told the clerk what she was mailing clerk read address information not very confidential is it