Jackson Medical Marijuana Likely To End Up In Court, Advocates Say

[Michael Komorn]

Gersh, it hurts me to,see you go through this like you are. I would suggest that most agrees with your interpretation, and even that it was the intent of the voters. But that is not the point of any of this. You have been a warrior since I have known you, and would do anything for this community. The point of the discussion is not what we believe the law to be, it is not about how we want the law to be interpreted. It is about giving sound guidance to those looking for peace of mind in these challenging time for patients and caregivers. That is all this is about. No one like BS ( your hs buddy- jk), no one thinks he is even close to interpreting the law as it was imtemded Patients and caregivers who are getting caught in the crossfire is what this is about. How do we stop this? How do you advise a patient or caregiver to be arrest proof. What advise for behavior can honestly be given that will consistently be honored by police in both Genessee county and Oakland county that will not subject this community from arrest. We are talking about public advise and bahvior that has not yet been identified as legal. That's all.

[Celliach]

Thanks Mike for weighing in. Very succinct and to the point.

 

We are only trying to protect patients until we can make unarguable changes to the law protecting the rights of all patients and caregivers. Until then, we just want to keep people out of the courtroom and the jail cell.

[peanutbutter]

Gersh, it hurts me to,see you go through this like you are. I would suggest that most agrees with your interpretation, and even that it was the intent of the voters. But that is not the point of any of this. You have been a warrior since I have known you, and would do anything for this community. The point of the discussion is not what we believe the law to be, it is not about how we want the law to be interpreted. It is about giving sound guidance to those looking for peace of mind in these challenging time for patients and caregivers. That is all this is about. No one like BS ( your hs buddy- jk), no one thinks he is even close to interpreting the law as it was imtemded Patients and caregivers who are getting caught in the crossfire is what this is about. How do we stop this? How do you advise a patient or caregiver to be arrest proof. What advise for behavior can honestly be given that will consistently be honored by police in both Genessee county and Oakland county that will not subject this community from arrest. We are talking about public advise and bahvior that has not yet been identified as legal. That's all.

 

Can we PLEASE avoid declaring something illegal before any courts or laws have done so?

 

Can we please make it clear: No law yet .. if you proceed do so with caution.

 

Prudence is GREAT advice!!

 

But PLEASE let's not convict ourselves of laws that don't exist yet.

[peanutbutter]

There's two very different things being discussed here.

 

1. what does the law say?

2. what is safe to do?

 

It's two different things. I only object when someone says there is clearly a law when there isn't any such law. Which has happened in this thread several times.

[Celliach]

UNDERSTAND THIS!!

 

People here invented a law against marijuana people.

 

This is the kind of stuff that puts you and I in jail.

 

And it's being promoted right here ..

 

That is correct. We are promoting that people do not go to jail by doing something that is not clearly legal under the MMMA. In the meantime, we will fight to make sure that many of our rights are clearly legal within the MMMA.

 

That's what you meant right?

[cristinew]

Can we PLEASE avoid declaring something illegal before any courts or laws have done so?

 

Yes PB we support that

 

But can you support this?

 

Can we PLEASE avoid declaring something legal before any courts or laws have done so?

[Celliach]

Those people were following the law as it's currently interpreted so that patients could remain safe. They may not have said it that way, but that was the intent. NOBODY here is advocating turning the law over to Bill Schuette as you've implied.

[peanutbutter]

What advise for behavior can honestly be given that will consistently be honored by police in both Genessee county and Oakland county that will not subject this community from arrest. We are talking about public advise and bahvior that has not yet been identified as legal. That's all.

 

There are individual officers that don't care what the MMMA says. There is nothing that can protect patients from such officers.

 

In Oakland county, those individuals are high up within the court system.

 

IF IF IF cases start being reversed in Oakland county, there will be some safety there. More than there has been.

 

I think we can give advise that will put people in the least likely to be arrested category. But it's impossible to give absolute advice that way.

 

Are people likely to be arrested inside a Farmers Market? Not if they are just being patients. Not likely, yet not impossible.

 

How many of the patients that were simply customers have been arrested in Oakland county dispensaries? That was the worst case.

 

The people at risk would be those at tables. Those people are the ones taking the risk.

[peanutbutter]

But can you support this?

 

Can we PLEASE avoid declaring something legal before any courts or laws have done so?

 

No I can't .. because that IS NOT the way our system works. Nothing is illegal until there has been a law passed against it.

[Celliach]

There are individual officers that don't care what the MMMA says. There is nothing that can protect patients from such officers.

 

In Oakland county, those individuals are high up within the court system.

 

IF IF IF cases start being reversed in Oakland county, there will be some safety there. More than there has been.

 

I think we can give advise that will put people in the least likely to be arrested category. But it's impossible to give absolute advice that way.

 

Are people likely to be arrested inside a Farmers Market? Not if they are just being patients. Not likely, yet not impossible.

 

How many of the patients that were simply customers have been arrested in Oakland county dispensaries? That was the worst case.

 

The people at risk would be those at tables. Those people are the ones taking the risk.

 

Are you saying that's it's alright for us to tell those people to take the risk?

[Celliach]

No I can't .. because that IS NOT the way our system works. Nothing is illegal until there has been a law passed against it.

Good point, however there has been a law passed against selling marijuana outside the MMMA. It's called the Controlled Substance Act. We've already been here in this conversation, you're starting to talk in circles.

 

The question now becomes whether someone's questionable actions are protected by the MMMA.

[peanutbutter]

 

 

That is correct. We are promoting that people do not go to jail by doing something that is not clearly legal under the MMMA. In the meantime, we will fight to make sure that many of our rights are clearly legal within the MMMA.

 

That's what you meant right?

 

More like, I'm not going to agree that our law doesn't protect something when it may.

 

I don't want to give up ANY protection by accident.

 

It's simple to nullify a law by ignoring it. If everyone agrees to ignore it, that law doesn't exist, functionally.

 

Advise? It's still best to pretend it's illegal. Stay out of the line of fire.

Some folks will want to try to push the edges. If that is you, make sure to have legal fees ready to prove your point.

 

 

[peanutbutter]

There are not a lot of legal things that entail such risk, are there?

 

The law has changed.

 

It takes time for officials to get used to what is expected of them.

 

While this is taking place, some officials will get it wrong and try to apply the old ways of life.

 

And there is where the risk lies ..

 

Today, I think Bob and Torey would never get raided. Even in Oakland county, that action would be considered abusive today. So some of the officials have gotten used to the law a little more.

 

Things are getting better, but we still have a long ways to go.

[peanutbutter]

 

Good point, however there has been a law passed against selling marijuana outside the MMMA. It's called the Controlled Substance Act. We've already been here in this conversation, you're starting to talk in circles.

 

The question now becomes whether someone's questionable actions are protected by the MMMA.

 

"transfer" and "delivery" are protected in the MMMA.

 

While the words "Farmers Market" and "dispensary" do not exist in the MMMA transfer and delivery do.

[peanutbutter]

What is legal now?

 

That varies from location to location.

 

I'm talking about functionality, not letter of the law.

 

That's how we all are talking now, right? It's all about what can get you in a crap storm.

So we're not talking about what is legal or what isn't ..

 

We're talking about what will attract an arrest in your direction.

 

That's different.

 

The police and courts are just beginning to understand this law. There is where the real danger lies.

[Celliach]

More like, I'm not going to agree that our law doesn't protect something when it may.

 

 

I never agreed to that either, and please trust me, that is NOT the current policy here. That idea just might not have been communicated well.

[Celliach]

"transfer" and "delivery" are protected in the MMMA.

 

While the words "Farmers Market" and "dispensary" do not exist in the MMMA transfer and delivery do.

 

As far as I can see, and many lawyers agree, only transfers and deliveries between a caregiver and his registered patient are clearly legal according to the wording of the law. Anything beyond that would have to be ruled on by a court.

 

Not that I don't hope and pray that we can all transfer to each other.

[Mememe]

How does an out of state patient acquire meds if farmers markets and dispensaries are illegal?

[Celliach]

How does an out of state patient acquire meds if farmers markets and dispensaries are illegal?

 

Good question and one I don't have an unambiguous answer for that would be strictly legal for both parties involved in a transfer involving an out of state patient..

[cristinew]

clearly legal Nothing in the MMMA act made cannabis legal if someone could point that out where in the act it says its legal please do'

because all i see are protections from arrest with rules attached to that 12 pants ect, and there is the AD you use that when your arrested for something that is not stated PROTECTIONS FROM ARREST Then the AD applies to the P2p and caregivers to other patients and if its for the medical use then the case should be dropped..

[peanutbutter]

 

 

As far as I can see, and many lawyers agree, only transfers and deliveries between a caregiver and his registered patient are clearly legal according to the wording of the law. Anything beyond that would have to be ruled on by a court.

 

Not that I don't hope and pray that we can all transfer to each other.

 

Fair enough .. the jury is still out.

 

Not aimed at you -> just don't say it is clear when it isn't.

 

 

[cristinew]

Good question and one I don't have an unambiguous answer for that would be strictly legal for both parties involved in a transfer involving an out of state patient..

 

That is where the AD comes in , not clearly stated then the AD should apply hopefully

Edited June 7, 2012 by cristinew

[Celliach]

Apparently the voters of Michigan didn't think about out of state patients when they passed the law.

 

Maybe we just assumed they were bringing their own meds with them.

[peanutbutter]

That is a dodge. Answer the question. Is there nothing a caregiver or patient can legally engage in under state law? I am surprised you would go there.

 

I believe there are many things that are distinctly protected.

 

That's different than what can someone do that they will never get arrested for. That is an absolute that depends on the location and officer.

 

We are still in a transition period of time. We could wind up with dry counties .. I must say that it looks like we avoided that. However "local rule" MIGHT give us those. We don't know yet .. that's the future.

 

We need uniform application of this law across the entire state.

 

An absolute answer is that a patient and caregiver can engage in "medical use" within limits.

[Celliach]

I feel that they did, they are mentioned directly.

 

I guess I should have mentioned I was being sarcastic. My bad.