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Jackson Medical Marijuana Likely To End Up In Court, Advocates Say

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Celliach Advanced Member

Celliach

Posted
Posted

unreal this thread....

 

ok.

 

i have a couple questions...i am really bothered and wondering. i am not trying to cause any confusion or "ambiguity" i have been asked by several folks this week... and so i pose the questions here in what seems to be a relevant thread.

 

a patient goes to the doctor and gets a recommendation...they have a named condition and are qualified. they cannot grow for themselves. for whatever reason. they decide to "hire" a caregiver to provide for their medical use of cannabis as required by their condition. they hire this caregiver, maybe a family member or friend but who is qualified and able. lets say for argument that they even go so far as to wait for their plastic cards to arrive from the state in the mail... and this caregiver is brand new. and this patient is brand new...

 

1) where does the caregiver get their genetics? seeds? clones?

 

lets go even simpler.... how about i get my state issued card decide to grow for myself. once my card arrives...

2) where do i get my plants?

to grow for my own self...must i hire a caregiver to obtain my first set of genetics? how about for each additional strain that i hear about in the future that may work better for my condition?

 

how about a out of state card holder? would the reciprocity of the card allow them to transfer genetics?

 

i ask about genetics but the same questions apply to usable cannabis...

 

i ask because as a caregiver, patient and moderator on this site i want to be clear we are all talking about the same things and passing on the same information.

 

the farmers market as i understood it is nothing more than a organized time and place for those questions to be answered and those needs to be fulfilled.

 

to be clear... because the AG and many in law enforcement have pushed the limits and there is a clear and present danger i personally have decided to only work within the limits of the contracts i have with my direct patients at this time. my card has the name of a specific patient on it, and i don't really see how having a fiduciary relationship with that person, and a contractual agreement bound and sanctified by the state of Michigan gives me the rite to transfer genetics to someone whose name isn't on the card... i mean because Santa clause is my patient and i have a card with his name on it, i can posses cannabis for him, but how does that make it ok for me to transfer it to the elves who need it too for making cookies for their patients? they are all caregivers too, but not mine...

 

the only reason i even decided to post tonight is because i want to order seeds. i want to try a new strain. i want to know what my official position is supposed to be? do i order cannabis genetics and pray? is it rule of law that if it must be this way then it is? which is to say simplicity rules when a finial determination must be made. so if a person is allowed to obtain genetics for the first time, or for a new strain or for whatever reasons then they must get it from the only place it is allowed to be, and that is someone who has a card and is allowed to already posses it?

 

how about patient number one? where did patient number one get his/her genetics? and number 2? and so on...

 

if it must be this simple then isn't it?

 

and to be clear someone asked about transfers without remuneration and i believe its been said that to sell cannabis in Michigan is not going to get you arrested, its not even listed in the PHC? it is the transfer, manufacture or delivery that you will be charged with? hence the no 100$ baggies and free pot inside rule...or the consultation or services exchange for medication determinations...

 

the supreme court will decide for us all on this issue very soon i hope.... and these questions can be officially answered...

You get an established caregiver and keep possession of your plants. You then get your genetics, seeds or clones from your caregiver.

 

Also, while it is probably legal for you to obtain the genetics, it is probably not legal for someone to transfer them to you unless they are your registered caregiver. Following this logic, which hasn't been proven in court yet, one could get genetics from anywhere.

 

This is a straw man argument as there are plenty of genetics now in Michigan that can be obtained legally.

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mibrains Advanced Member

mibrains

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You get an established caregiver and keep possession of your plants. You then get your genetics, seeds or clones from your caregiver.

 

Also, while it is probably legal for you to obtain the genetics, it is probably not legal for someone to transfer them to you unless they are your registered caregiver. Following this logic, which hasn't been proven in court yet, one could get genetics from anywhere.

 

This is a straw man argument as there are plenty of genetics now in Michigan that can be obtained legally.

 

so your saying as a new patient i must hire a caregiver....

 

and then u say there's plenty of genetics that can be obtained in mi legally....but how?

do i go and sign up with them? and wait 20 days?and then cancel that arrangement once i have the genetics?

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Celliach Advanced Member

Celliach

Posted
Posted

By employing a caregiver to obtain the genetics from.

 

There are other ways to obtain, but the 3MA organization, and it's representatives (admins and mods) cannot recommend or condone anything that is strictly not totally legal.

 

Why is that so hard to understand?

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CaveatLector Advanced Member

CaveatLector

Posted
Posted (edited)

Cry me a river cainettes. Cry me a river. Maybe you should duck for cover over at jojo's circus for a while. Regroup, come back a blasting!!!

 

Parenthetically, it is cute to see the cainettes stroke one another's ego like an elephant matriarch looking after another's young.

 

I'm sure this comment will get me a warning for a vacation but I'm about sick of the cainettes and their fragile egos. Grow a sack or step back.

 

I'll voluntarily edit this later but I'm not going to ignore the constant swipes the cainettes are taking at people.

 

Always crybabying about something. "Oh no, he said I'm unintelligent. Well, he didn't really say it but what he said made me feel unintelligent and brusied my ego! He shouldn't try explaining what analogy means, that hurts my feelings! He's giving me low self esteem....!"

 

Run on back to daddy jojo's open arms... He's your personal jesus. Someone to hear your prayers, someone who cares!

Edited by CaveatLector
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mibrains Advanced Member

mibrains

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it isn't.... not hard at all.... to understand

 

i just needed it to be clear..

 

the position is of the MMMA that you must obtain any cannabis from your state connected registered patient or caregiver. got it...

 

LOL

 

i will pray and hope that the supreme court puts all this nonsense behind us....

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mibrains Advanced Member

mibrains

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Posted

Cry me a river cainettes. Cry me a river. Maybe you should duck for cover over at jojo's circus for a while. Regroup, come back a blasting!!!

 

Parenthetically, it is cute to see the cainettes stroke one another's ego like an elephant matriarch looking after another's young.

 

I'm sure this comment will get me a warning for a vacation but I'm about sick of the cainettes and their fragile egos. Grow a sack or step back.

 

I'll voluntarily edit this later but I'm not going to ignore the constant swipes the cainettes are taking at people.

 

Always crybabying about something. "Oh no, he said I'm unintelligent. Well, he didn't really say it but what he said made me feel unintelligent and brusied my ego! He shouldn't try explaining what analogy means, that hurts my feelings! He's giving me low self esteem....!"

 

Run on back to daddy jojo's open arms... He's your personal jesus. Someone to hear your prayers, someone who cares!

 

lol

seriously?

giggle

thats kinda funny..but ok..

and i have never been offended by your particular mannerisms or defiant character good sir...and in fact i hope to meet you one day in person...

 

you can call me a cainette... because i think it's actually kinda amusing....

 

maybe i should...

 

yea well

 

never mind my questions then..

 

forget i asked...i thought it might help to resolve some of the folks who have called me and asked me these very questions, and i dont know what to tell them...officially...

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AKenewell Advanced Member

AKenewell

Posted
Posted

You have to be considerate to people whom the MMMA told a different story to only weeks ago and whom participated and may even participate in the markets now understanding the risks .

 

There comes a point when explaining the same thing over and over and over again, in multiple ways is no longer working. At that point you take a different approach. The debate could go on..but the bottom line is farmers markets are not legal.

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Celliach Advanced Member

Celliach

Posted
Posted

when I see a doctor and lawyer start stomping on a patient, then I realize that this site is wide-open to just about anyone with an "interest", or more like a stake, in medical marijuana.

when I see a patient start stomping on a doctor and lawyer, then I realize that this site is wide-open to just about anyone with an "interest", or more like a stake, in medical marijuana.

 

That statement cuts both ways. Hmmmmm.....

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mibrains Advanced Member

mibrains

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i am truly sorry everyone if i am edgy..i don't mean to be..it's been a really long week..and it's only wed...LOL plus it was hot out there today working.....

 

i hope and pray you all have a safe night, and don't get into any situations that cause you or your loved ones harm

 

please execute anything you do with the utmost caution

 

and DO NOT DRIVE under the influence.

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cristinew Advanced Member

cristinew

Posted
Posted

FILED MAY 31, 2012

S T A T E O F M I C H I G A N

SUPREME COURT

 

S T A T E O F M I C H I G A N

SUPREME COURT

 

III. ANALYSIS

 

The MMMA does not create a general right for individuals to use and possess

marijuana in Michigan. Possession, manufacture, and delivery of marijuana remain

punishable offenses under Michigan law.24 Rather, the MMMA’s protections are limited

 

How hard is this to understand?

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Celliach Advanced Member

Celliach

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Posted

Yes I did. If a person with Dr certification is protected....where and how do they acquire meds?

 

What does a patient acquiring medicine have to do with the court's decision? The court just said that Sec 8 defenses were valid and could/should be considered by the lower courts. Nothing about acquiring medicine int hat decision at all.

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peanutbutter Advanced Member

peanutbutter

Posted
Posted

 

 

Yes you have missed something. Go back and read. Then study McQueen, and the Act itself. Then ask someone to explain them if need be.

 

Out of your field again. There are very reasonable people that would disagree with you.

 

Since it is an item that people disagree about, could you avoid talking about it in terms of absolutes? It's not a done deal yet.

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Malamute Advanced Member

+Malamute

Posted
Posted

Can i just point out because it makes me crazy,...

 

By saying SAFE access, you are specifically saying you support only Lab tested marijuana and large commercial uniform operations. You are saying that YOU or a caregiver who grows marijuana is UNSAFE and that the marijuana produced by patients and caregivers is UNSAFE and somehow RISKY and possibly DANGEROUS.

 

It just drives me crazy to see people who support home growing say SAFE ACCESS. It is merely propaganda of those who knowingly or unknowingly are supporting corporate propaganda that is deliberately moving to the arena to make home growing a thing of the past.

 

Words matter.

 

I would never have thought that way, kinda like overage?

Can you give an example?

Now I have to go to mm english class.

Any others we need to say differently.

I will try to remember that it is not intentional and I am sure you understand what your describing is not my vision of safe access . Though we all have to understand pharmacuetical products are a eventual reality of what is occurring even if we believe strongly actually cannabis in it's raw form need not be more regulated then tea or coffee .

 

Yea, i almost edited my post to make sure people didn't misunderstand what i was saying. I did say "Unknowingly" but even after posted thought i should make clear the vast majority of people do not realize the real time implications of saying and promoting "Safe" access and how it is being used in legislatures and such.

 

That was why i pointed it out. Just hoping others start to pick up on it and not use that term that is being used to degrade home grown cannabis as being unsafe if not tested or... what i said previously quoted there.

 

:-)

 

Sorry, i realize this was off topic in this thread. Buti think these 3 posts were more inetersting than the rest of the thread!!!

 

Hahaha...

 

just my opinion of ocurse.

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Petyr Advanced Member

Petyr

Posted
Posted

I don't understand why you won't just ban these trolls. And I really don't understand why you keep feeding them.

 

Just ignore them. Pretend they don't exist and they will eventually go away.

 

This site finally has a collection of people who know what they are talking about and can express those thoughts in clear, readable English. Its a shame their voices are muddled by a bunch of trolls asking the same pedantic questions and making the same passive aggressive statements day after day.

 

As far as this thread, I think you are trying to explain something to a bunch of people who don't know what ambiguous means.

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peanutbutter Advanced Member

peanutbutter

Posted
Posted (edited)

does the law say that they are LEGAL?

 

If the law doesn't state indefinitely that something is legal it will not be promoted here, until there is case law showing that it is fully compliant and will have no harm if attended.. It has not been stated that they are legal, therefore they are just that NOT LEGAL

 

EDIT: I hate the phrase gray area. but If there is doubt throw it out. until otherwise stated in the law as legal, they are a gray area and not something advisable to attend. for the safety of the community

 

Ahh!! Trix. In our system, only those things that laws have been passed against are illegal.

 

Some places begin with EVERYTHING being illegal and than only those things the government says are legal are then legal.

 

The good news is that our nation was NOT one of those where EVERYTHING is illegal until permission is granted.

 

EVERYTHING is legal UNTIL a law has been passed against it. NOT the other way around.

 

Nothing gray there .. nothing is illegal unless a law has been passed against it. See? Simple. It turns gray when you do something like "there should be a law against it so there IS a law against it. I just can't remember what law it is!!" See!! That kind of thinking gets confusing real fast ..

Edited by peanutbutter
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