Problem With Doctor Certification

[northerngal]

We had an issue brought to our attention at our last public meeting.

 

A participant received a denial from the State of Michigan due to the signing doctors license being expired.

 

 Dr. Henry Gonte (sIgning under the clinic  MMMCC - Michigan Medical Marijuana Certification Center) signed this persons certification in February. 

 

His license appears to have expired on 12/31/2012

 

http://www7.dleg.state.mi.us/free/publicinfo.asp?rb_name=ON&rb_facility=&l_person_id=100083&l_profession_id=51&l_license_id=100509&Last_Name=GONTE&First_Name=&License_number=&Facility_Name=&DBA_Name=&profession=0&offset=0

[Celliach]

Everybody that got referral from Gonte did it as a mail-in, so technically they weren't valid on that basis also.

[mibrains]

what should the people who used the MMMCC do?

 

does anyone know if the MMMCC is taking corrective actions?

 

WOW

 

that's unreal...

 

since last year...

 

i hope people that are affected can get to a clinic as soon as possible to ensure they have a new certification...

 

this sounds borderline fraudulent...

 

i hope if it ends up being warranted a class action suit of some kind develops to ensure patients are protected from scammers like this.

 

signing certifications for 5 months with an expired license... that's outrageous.

 

i feel like i better check my doctors license expiration now...

 

thank you Northerngal for the links and information...

[northerngal]

Everybody that got referral from Gonte did it as a mail-in, so technically they weren't valid on that basis also.

 

Previous to April 1st this was clearly defined where?  

 

I have seen dozens get there certifications done this way previous to April. (mail in/phone in)  They were never denied on that basis. 

 

 

As a note: I do not condone mail in or phone in certifications. 

[pic book]

I have seen dozens get there certifications done this way previous to April. (mail in/phone in)  They were never denied on that basis. 

So the legislature got it right in cutting out such certs.

 

As for the signature issue, of course pats signed by an expired med. lic. merely have more scratch paper available.  And there's no recourse or recovery, absent huge luck and bux.

[blindman21]

The MMMCC is re certifying with a new doctor. There is no additional charge from the clinic or from the state if the patient re-applies within 21 days.. 

[+Malamute]

Sounds like a top notch organization there.... 

 

 

Previous to April 1st this was clearly defined where?  

 

I have seen dozens get there certifications done this way previous to April. (mail in/phone in)  They were never denied on that basis. 

 

 

As a note: I do not condone mail in or phone in certifications. 

 

http://www.rockindlaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/lara-bona-fide-guidelines1.pdf

 

2012 actually by LARA.  The do kinda have something to do with physician licensing stuff and such.

 

 The new law as amended actually has less strict guidelines basically.

[Dr. Bob]

We will be taking care of these bogus certs at the clinic in Gaylord on May 17th.  We do require medical records, so bring them, and a cert from Dr. Gonte signed between 1-1-13 and now.  

 

There will be NO CHARGE for these certs to be fixed.  I've already been in contact with the clinic and they refuse to cover the cost of the certifications, and I don't feel it is right to charge patients a second time.  So we are going to do it as a service to the community to protect the patients.  

 

Dr. Bob

[+Malamute]

Your the best Dr Townsend.

 

I don't care what people say,... when patients need help, you are there.  When your patients have needed help in court, you have been there. When a lone patient hours away from "civilization"(a clinic) needs help, you are there.

 

Thanks for helping these people.

[Northern Lab]

Your the best Dr Townsend.

 

I don't care what people say,... when patients need help, you are there.  When your patients have needed help in court, you have been there. When a lone patient hours away from "civilization"(a clinic) needs help, you are there.

 

Thanks for helping these people.

Ditto. Dr Bob is a stand up dude!

[Celliach]

Previous to April 1st this was clearly defined where?  

 

I have seen dozens get there certifications done this way previous to April. (mail in/phone in)  They were never denied on that basis. 

 

 

As a note: I do not condone mail in or phone in certifications. 

 

It was an administrative change in 2012 on recommendation of the doctors certification board.

http://www.rockindla...guidelines1.pdf

[northerngal]

The MMMCC is re certifying with a new doctor. There is no additional charge from the clinic or from the state if the patient re-applies within 21 days.. 

 

Hopefully this doctor is licensed and on site during certifications?  (Although they claimed to have an office in Gaylord where the patient lives- they requested that this patient renew by mail or phone.)

 

 The patient I spoke with could not get a return call from MMMCC- they claimed to have called a half dozen times. 

[Dr. Bob]

I'll handle the ones in Gaylord (Vanderbilt) and Grand Rapids (Muskegon on the 11th) but someone else has to stand up in Detroit, I don't go down there.  

 

Dr. Bob

[northerngal]

It was an administrative change in 2012 on recommendation of the doctors certification board.

http://www.rockindla...guidelines1.pdf

 

I was aware of this notice/recommendation.  I thought it was "vague"  and a recommendation more than a requirement.   Using words like "should", "generally accepted component",  "may be found" instead of "required", "must"  and "will be found".  Many "loopholes" that marketing companies used even after that publication. 

 

Now we have the requirements set forth requiring certain things, not just a recommendation of the board.

 

Thank you for helping clarify that

[mibrains]

We will be taking care of these bogus certs at the clinic in Gaylord on May 17th.  We do require medical records, so bring them, and a cert from Dr. Gonte signed between 1-1-13 and now.  

 

There will be NO CHARGE for these certs to be fixed.  I've already been in contact with the clinic and they refuse to cover the cost of the certifications, and I don't feel it is right to charge patients a second time.  So we are going to do it as a service to the community to protect the patients.  

 

Dr. Bob

 

 

thank you so much Doctor bob...

 

a very generous offer and likely will save some folks a lot of hassles and trouble.

[Celliach]

I was aware of this notice/recommendation.  I thought it was "vague"  and a recommendation more than a requirement.   Using words like "should", "generally accepted component",  "may be found" instead of "required", "must"  and "will be found".  Many "loopholes" that marketing companies used even after that publication. 

 

Now we have the requirements set forth requiring certain things, not just a recommendation of the board.

 

Thank you for helping clarify that

Well, the MDCH adopted these guidelines even if they were vague, and I don't think the part covering certifications through the mail part was very vague. Using words like "should" means you "should" do something.  The way you're using "should" is more akin to the definition of "could."

[Celliach]

Yes, thank you so very much Dr. Bob.  

 

You've been a stand-up guy in all my dealings with you and those I've seen of yours with others.

[northerngal]

Well, the MDCH adopted these guidelines even if they were vague, and I don't think the part covering certifications through the mail part was very vague. Using words like "should" means you "should" do something.  The way you're using "should" is more akin to the definition of "could."

 

I can thank you a dozen times for the help "clarifying" that and you will still find something wrong with what I write.  I realize there is no point in continuuing this type of banter.  Not productive and useless. 

 

Vague recommendations they were, now clearly defined with law.   We can both agree on that.  (I think)  

 

My post was intended to be informative and to make the community aware of something going on that possibly effects them, not to start a controversy on certification requirements.  (I clearly stated I have never recommended getting a certification through means other than an in person evaluation with a LICENSED doctor)

[blindman21]

i.m not here to defend MMMCC but they did set up a recertification in two days and did not charge anything. The new doctor asked all kinds of condition related questions. I thought they did the best they could with a bad situation.

[GregS]

Not bad Bob. Thank you for your professional approach to the issue as a physician.

 

I am a little surprised that mail in certs are still being done. Who might other doctors be who practice this, and for that matter, phone certs?

[Dr. Bob]

There were a lot of shady clinics.  Renewals through the mail, hotel cattle calls with no doctor present, etc.  That is why the new rules were put out and the law changed, specifically to stop activity like this.  Those of us that were professional and followed good medical practices from the start are still here and have to take care of the mistakes of those fly by night operations.  We have an obligation to patients, many of whom didn't realize getting an offer to renew, sight unseen, from a 'clinic' was setting them up for problems.  This is just one example.

 

Yes, there are still clinics offering to renew patients by mail.  That show up in hotel rooms and disappear with the money, leaving only worthless paper behind.  They will be weeded out.  Being profit rather than patient driven, they will find out soon enough it just doesn't pay to cut corners.  

 

Dr. Bob

[subpar]

This kind of surprises me. Why would a doctor (after all the time and effort and money in acquiring a medical license) risk their professional career on such a thing as mmj rec's??? How does that risk/reward assessment work? Lol...there had better be millions in an offshore account

[Dr. Bob]

Some of us do it to help develop a new field of medicine, while helping patients get off of narcotics.  Unfortunately, there is greed in any profession.

 

Dr. Bob

[phaquetoo]

We will be taking care of these bogus certs at the clinic in Gaylord on May 17th.  We do require medical records, so bring them, and a cert from Dr. Gonte signed between 1-1-13 and now.  

 

There will be NO CHARGE for these certs to be fixed.  I've already been in contact with the clinic and they refuse to cover the cost of the certifications, and I don't feel it is right to charge patients a second time.  So we are going to do it as a service to the community to protect the patients.  

 

Dr. Bob

Thats realy kewl Doc! Alot of folks who dont understand how difficult it can be in northern mi to get a rec, and than your gonna come in and fix what appears to me a dr with $$ in said eyes,  and it is coming out of your pocket, You have done alot for mm pt's and people hooked on illegal opoids,  I cant Thank you Enough! But All I know is we could use more dr.'s like you,  we could all use our primary care dr's to be as compassionate as you, I know you wouldnt mind not having to travel the state for pt's to get cards, and maybe do more of your suboxon clinics!  My hats off to you today!!!!!  

 

who knows about tomorrow eh?

 

Peace to You and Yours!

Jim

[subpar]

Some of us do it to help develop a new field of medicine, while helping patients get off of narcotics. Unfortunately, there is greed in any profession.

 

Dr. Bob

Hi doc... Wasnt thinking of the ones that actually attempt to develop a legitimate dr/pat relationship. Specifically was referring to those that sign blank forms or never meet the patients face to face. actually, i would think that to be an issue for your medical board to review, and not a criminal issue, unless somehow their deliberate actions caused real harm to another person. Cant really see that happening with mmj recs, but the prosecutors appear to going after docs with criminal charges for procedural violations. Seems awfulky hostile to docs, and why risk the license by bending the rules when they are clearly outlined, and somewhat easy to follow? I dont see the upside for a licensed medical doctor, especially long term.