My Run In With Leo

[lawyercaregiver]

Let me just chime in that LEO does NOT have access to the MM list. They DO have the ability to verify if a particular person of interest is on the list. It is possible they are making a large number of inquiries to verify as a sort of shotgun approach.

 

So yes they can verify individuals but would really have no reason to do so unless they had a report from an informant.

 

What about FLIR? Could LEO have picked up your room using infrared surveillance?

[semicaregiver]

Let me just chime in that LEO does NOT have access to the MM list. They DO have the ability to verify if a particular person of interest is on the list. It is possible they are making a large number of inquiries to verify as a sort of shotgun approach.

 

So yes they can verify individuals but would really have no reason to do so unless they had a report from an informant.

 

 

The subject of verification has fascinated me. Several time I have seen quotes like the one above suggesting that LEO does not have access to the MM list and at the same time it has been suggested that LEO can verify a particular person of interest. From my read of the rules, the MDCH is prohibited from releasing any info to LEO other than to verify that a specific registry card # id is valid. It would seem that the only way LEO would have your registry # is during a physical confrontation during which you present your card to LEO.

 

Does LEO have any other way to verify that a person is a registed MMP?

[peanutbutter]

The subject of verification has fascinated me. Several time I have seen quotes like the one above suggesting that LEO does not have access to the MM list and at the same time it has been suggested that LEO can verify a particular person of interest. From my read of the rules, the MDCH is prohibited from releasing any info to LEO other than to verify that a specific registry card # id is valid. It would seem that the only way LEO would have your registry # is during a physical confrontation during which you present your card to LEO.

 

Does LEO have any other way to verify that a person is a registed MMP?

 

The only way they are supposed to have any access to information is if they have an ID number to start with.

 

That's it. Only if they have a number to start with.

[naturescaregivers]

Let me just chime in that LEO does NOT have access to the MM list. They DO have the ability to verify if a particular person of interest is on the list. It is possible they are making a large number of inquiries to verify as a sort of shotgun approach.

 

So yes they can verify individuals but would really have no reason to do so unless they had a report from an informant.

 

What about FLIR? Could LEO have picked up your room using infrared surveillance?

 

Now that you mention it, I have seen helicopters buzzing over my house. Which I find weird because I am way out in the country near multiple farms. They might have been tipped off from the IR. I never thought I'd see the day when cops were using choppers out where I live.

[naturescaregivers]

The only way they are supposed to have any access to information is if they have an ID number to start with.

 

That's it. Only if they have a number to start with.

 

Don't you think it's possible that LEO may bully their way or pull some strings to get that information? That information would be invaluable. Many of the other medical marijuana patients in my area of had the cops come by on anonymous tips, some even thrown in jail for having 1 too many clones.

 

I'm not accusing them of doing any such thing. But in the past, LEO has broken the law to access private information, and I'm sure they'll continue doing so.

 

 

Anyway a lot of awesome replies on this topic. Thanks guys for posting your experiences, thoughts and advice on this issue.

[peanutbutter]

Don't you think it's possible that LEO may bully their way or pull some strings to get that information? That information would be invaluable. Many of the other medical marijuana patients in my area of had the cops come by on anonymous tips, some even thrown in jail for having 1 too many clones.

 

I'm not accusing them of doing any such thing. But in the past, LEO has broken the law to access private information, and I'm sure they'll continue doing so.

 

 

Anyway a lot of awesome replies on this topic. Thanks guys for posting your experiences, thoughts and advice on this issue.

 

LOL .. did you hear? There's a new law in Michigan.

 

There was a new crime invented in the mmj law.

 

In order to commit this criminal act, the guilty person must be an employee of government, state or local.

If an employee of government within the state of Michigan transmits this information to anyone else, they have committed a crime. That is supposed to land them in jail.

 

The solution is for the officer holding the information to do his/her duty and arrest the person that gave it to them.

 

Or join the conspiracy to violate the rights of patients in Michigan. WOW!! when does RICO kick in?

[Red Hair Skunk]

Just your average drug enforcement team of morally bankrupt, cellar dwellers out to intimidate and treat patients and care givers like criminals. These are the same kind of tacit's the Brown Shirts used to help bring Adolf Hitler to power.

 

I have no faith in the government, and my patience with law enforcement is at an end.

 

I'm afaid the only way to stop this kind of behavior is with law suites. Lots of them!

[idge]

Now that you mention it, I have seen helicopters buzzing over my house. Which I find weird because I am way out in the country near multiple farms. They might have been tipped off from the IR. I never thought I'd see the day when cops were using choppers out where I live.

 

[dlovas]

First thing LEO should do is ask for paperwork. And I agree, I always had mine posted on the outside of the grow room door, on the window of the grow room facing out and a copy on each plant pot/bucket - with the law attached to it! LEO needs to be educated/re-educated - and maybe after a couple of civil suits filed for harassment, they will slow down. Tell them the Feds were ordered not to harass medical patients - why can't they follow suit.

 

And what's the scoop on who we're wanting to see in the Governor seat this year? Top down management. Executive orders to lay off patients!! We should be demanding it - or at least someone should be keeping track of who/how many mj cases have come before each court since the law was passed. A database of this should be kept and tracked. Maybe it's happening already?

 

Best of luck - man, get a recorder - even if it's your cell phone. And call the ACLU!

 

I think that if a police department/agency is receiving federal funds for drug enforcement at all, they should be bound to the same edict that the DEA was given to their agents.

 

stxchick...not everyone can post things on the doors of their home or outside on the porch or door. Or you will get robbed. There are people that will rob your home for your medecine. Seems like these small town cops are just out of control and use fear and intimidation. Sickening. These people are getting snitched on though. If a neighbor was 2 acres away there is no way the smell would travel. Loose lips sink ships especially in small towns...with RAMBO...WILD WILD WEST STYLE TOTALLY OUT OF CONTROL NARC UNITS SEEKING FEDERAL MONEY TO KEEP THE JOBS. I WOULD LUV TO SEE THEM WORKIN CITIES LIKE DETROIT. YOU KICK DOWN THE WRONG DOOR YOU CAN GET SHOT. JUST LIKE THOSE COPS DID TO THAT LIL 7 YR OLD GIRL IN THE DDDD. THEY KILLED HER...BUT THE CITY OF DETROIT IS GOING TO GET SUED FOR MILLIONS FOR KILLING THAT GIRL. RAMBO COPS NEED TO BE PUT IN CHECK. THESE UNITS WILL ONLY STOP WHEN THEY GET HAULED INTO COURT OR HAVE TO PAY UP THEMSELVES.

[lilhookah]

I had a police helicopter fly by my place. The first time he flew over a few hundred yards off my house. Then they turned around and flew directly over my house north to south plus beeping his siren. The third time they went over west to east. I held up my card on their last fly over an I think they saw it , they were super low an went real slow they even dropped the nose so I could see both pilots. Then thy took off like a bat out a hell. Now I sit an wait for the knock.

[bobandtorey]

I had a police helicopter fly by my place. The first time he flew over a few hundred yards off my house. Then they turned around and flew directly over my house north to south plus beeping his siren. The third time they went over west to east. I held up my card on their last fly over an I think they saw it , they were super low an went real slow they even dropped the nose so I could see both pilots. Then thy took off like a bat out a hell. Now I sit an wait for the knock.

 

 

i have no words for you right now i would not open my door to any body i did not know

[Guest Wayne]

Interesting idea stxchick. You will let us know when LEO reads and understands them won't you?

[Guest Wayne]

Allow LEO entry and you deserve everything you get, no rewards for stupidity. Make 'em kick the door in!

[bobandtorey]

November 3, 2008, my life changed forever. LEO violated my rights, and forced me into a position of activism. That's the only thing positive about it. I will never, ever trust LEO. In all of my encounters I have never been "helped", "protected" or "served" in a positive manner. Not once. If you trust them in ANY situation, the odds are you will be sorry you did. Remember, they have an opinion, and it will be what they follow. Regardless of the law. Bob and Tory bear scars as deep as mine, and I consider anyone who has dealt with this type of situation as a brother-in-arms ( or sister! ). Stay Safe, don't talk to LEO, and don't believe a word they say. Don't talk; it can only make things worse for you. They'll tell you otherwise, but it's a lie. Every time.

 

 

this is so true and we are still in court

[jester]

Hey everyone. Just wanted to remind everyone to keep their paperwork organized and handy, and also to keep strict watch over your plant count. LEO is active and focusing their efforts on medical patients. I don't know about the rest of you but I was getting lax with my operation thinking I would never have a visit from the narcs. I don't sell any weed to anyone and only grow for my dad because he is a patient. However that didn't keep LEO from somehow getting a tip that I grow. I think the police departments are conducting illegal activities getting confidential information from the MDCH. Can anyone verify similar cases? I don't see any other way they could know. I mean my closest neighbor is over 2 acres away and I use carbon filters and my room is sealed.

 

Anyway alot of people think they won't have a run in with the law. Myself included. However just last week, 4 plain clothed undercover officers came to my house and harassed my mother, little brother and I for 35 minutes. These pigs made rude remarks to my mother and almost gave her a heart attack. They threatened to take her house and all her possessions. They threatened to make a mockery of our family in the local newspaper. They told her she'd lose her job as a nurse and put all three of use in jail for the night. Needless to say, my mom was horrified and started crying and screaming at me for growing my father's medicine.

 

I was furious and had a hard time controlling my anger. I came off quite defensive and then some young douche bag of a cop, that was currently taking pictures of my car VIN, licence plate, and interior, piped up from afar calling me a criminal because I wouldn't let them into my house. They asked if was innocent why was I being so nervous and defensive. I told them I was a medical grower and only provided medicine to my father.

 

This didn't satisfy them and then one officer tried to corner my mom and get her to give them permission to come in the house. They used numerous tactics to try to break us down and let them inspect our house. They basically said if we don't let them in today they'll be back tomorrow with a warrant and kick down the door with guns drawn.

 

 

I am extremely disappointed in how we, as patients and caregivers, are treated by the people WE PAY to protect us. In this event I was assumed guilty and treated like scum. I've always had a poor opinion of law enforcement but thats been turned to hate.

 

Anyway the only way to make this into a positive situation is to learn from it. I now know that I need to expect an encounter with LEO. I need to write down their badge numbers instead of just looking at them. I need to keep cool and collect my thoughts. Take mental notes of their looks. Have your paperwork handy and organized. Keep plant count in line. Have a copy of the law with important areas highlighted.

 

Anyway this whole ordeal really shook me up. Has anyone else had any experiences like this? How are other medical patients being treated around the state?

 

patients caregivers need to watch this...Busted: the Citizens Guide to Surviving Police Encounters. its available on you tube. its about forty five minutes long and excellent. don't watch it once. watch it several times a year. or better yet purchase a copy on dvd for $15 from flexyourrights.org. after all they've done a great service to law abiding subjects and deserve support. then you can pass it around or have get togethers for viewings. i won't pretend standing up to these Brave American Heroes is easy but by god YOU CAN DO IT!

[jester]

Camcorder would be your best friend. A picture with audio says it all. Then they can't deny it as a group. That is why there was more than one scum bag. Sorry to hear about them trying to find the weakest link............your Mom. Yes, this is there normal Gestapo tactics. I hope what you say is wrong about the way they found out. Good Times IJ

while photographing Brave American Heroes is generally considered legal AS LONG AS YOU'RE NOT GETTING IN THEIR WAY you run the very real risk of severe physical injury or death. the prosecutor will simply tell the media that, "they were just doing their job." that'll be the end of it.

[jester]

MDHC would have to comply with HIPPA. I would think if they released information without a warrant they would be open for a lawsuit.

if the Brave American Heroes talk to enough employees at MDHC you can bet your boots someone will pass the requested records under the table. there is no actual protection for mmj patients or caregivers. i really hate being so negative. i do sincerely admire the folks with the courage to be caregivers. i'd never get any sleep if i were one. god bless you all.

[jester]

when you get raided you will never be the same thats for sure

AMEN!

[Indicat]

Allow LEO entry and you deserve everything you get, no rewards for stupidity. Make 'em kick the door in!

 

yeah, just make sure you look out the peep hole or a window to see who it is. and put your dogs away if it's the cops, cause we all know they seem to have a passion for shooting dogs.

[Guest Wayne]

LEO is given very clear direction on how to deal with an encounter with an animal they "perceive" as threatening. If LEo's "perception is that the chihuaha is threatening their lives or health they are encouraged to shoot it. Perfect excuse for engaging in live fire, select target, exercises in American homes even when children are present. Be kinda sill if they were directed to target clocks or some inanimate object. I doubt LEO encounters many dogs not "perceived" to be a threat.

[peanutbutter]

While reading this thread today, one word comes to mind:

 

EXTORTION

 

In order to commit extortion, you don't need to be trying to get money from the victim.

 

If I were to point a gun at someone and tell them to "sign the paper" it is extortion.

 

It seems to me these officers are committing the felony of extortion.

[Scooter]

Anyone who has had an encounter with LEO at home will tell you one thing: they will lie, threaten, and twist your words in their favor. They will enter your home without invite if they choose, and it's your word against theirs. The only truth in the incident report regarding my encounter was the first sentence, "They arrived at my residence." Afterwhich it was nothing but lies; statements quoted that were not true, incidentals which were not true, etc. A video camera is your best friend in ANY LEO encounter. But be careful and hide it. It is legal in your residence. For some reason, they don't like to be videoed. Strange; wouldn't a neutral observer unbiased by opinion be the best record of an incident??? They have them in their cars, but don't don't like us to use them. I have 6 cameras throughout my home that turn on at the push of a button. I let local LEO, SSCENT, and TNT know this, and haven't had issue with them since. I might add that the cameras record off site via internet, so recordings can't be confiscated nor destroyed. IMO, informing your local LEO of your legality is a safety measure. I even went so far as to allow the sheriffs department and the state police to inspect my grow, which was found to exceed the laws requirements by both branches. And it helps promote the ideal that we are willing to work with them to follow and understand the law.

[Guest Wayne]

Just because the law forbids inspections doesn't mean you can't make a special request for one. Same with talking to LEO, you can do it as much as you like, they will listen and report your statements accurately while protecting your rights for you. Have I got that right?

[Mememe]

Yep, its helicopter time. Had one hovering over my house last year and could have hit it with a rock it was so low.

Don't forget about your townships, they can do inspections for other things and let leo know if they see your grow. Police/township in my area are sharing info like who is pulling electric permits and whatnot. I went up there and flat out told them about our grow and stated that I didn't want any trouble. If they have a problem with it, let me know before I start spending money. I got the thumbs up

[bobandtorey]

Yep, its helicopter time. Had one hovering over my house last year and could have hit it with a rock it was so low.

Don't forget about your townships, they can do inspections for other things and let leo know if they see your grow. Police/township in my area are sharing info like who is pulling electric permits and whatnot. I went up there and flat out told them about our grow and stated that I didn't want any trouble. If they have a problem with it, let me know before I start spending money. I got the thumbs up

 

you went and told them you grow?