Possible Inspections?

[THC Advisor]

So I heard through a friend that LEO in Kalkaska are gearing up to do inspections of grow sites. Apparently he heard this from an officer. That in itself seemed unlikely. Why would a LEO tell someone they plan on doing this? I told my friend that any officer that plans on entering my house better show up with a warrant in hand. So I ran to the internet looking for answers I thought I already had figured out. Reviewing a YouTube video posted by OCNORML Jan 8, 2009 I paid close attention to Greg's testimony especially starting at time 17:24. If you haven't already please check it out for yourself here

 

Not just the privacy of my residence but how would LEO be able to obtain a list of all those legal people in their county. Wouldn't that be a violation of my medical history? Isn't that protected by HIPPA? It sounds to me that this would be a phishing expedition if it occurred. Please let me know if the inspection rule has been stricken from the law, if you have heard about this yourself, and where in the law am I protected from this possible invasion of my privacy.

 

Thank You MUCH

[herb green]

They dont have direct access to records just verify ID numbers

 

The law specifically protects against inspections

 

ANd having the card is not grounds for a warrant

 

That's what they would need for inspection...no city coucil or leo can reverse the law...they most likey will see what they can get away with

 

Nothing wrong with standing your ground....just make sure you are 100% comlpiant with the law when you do and numbers are below 49

 

Some sherrifs have used the DEA to get into grows and tear them down

 

staying below 49 will keep you from a federal prosecution

 

Anyway....no inspections!

[Indicat]

They dont have direct access to records just verify ID numbers

 

The law specifically protects against inspections

 

ANd having the card is not grounds for a warrant

 

That's what they would need for inspection...no city coucil or leo can reverse the law...they most likey will see what they can get away with

 

Nothing wrong with standing your ground....just make sure you are 100% comlpiant with the law when you do and numbers are below 49

 

Some sherrifs have used the DEA to get into grows and tear them down

 

staying below 49 will keep you from a federal prosecution

 

Anyway....no inspections!

 

 

what does 49 represent? the number of plants you can have before it becomes a federal offense or something?

[+RevThad]

what does 49 represent? the number of plants you can have before it becomes a federal offense or something?

50 plants is where mandatory mins start kicking in on the federal level. 1 plant is a federal offense, but isn't worth the man-hours it would consume to prosecute, for the likely outcome of the case.

[Rashore]

50 plants is where mandatory mins start kicking in on the federal level. 1 plant is a federal offense, but isn't worth the man-hours it would consume to prosecute, for the likely outcome of the case.

 

 

Not to be dumb but... If a patient is growing for five other patients too, and can have 12 plants for each. That's 72 plants right? Even keeping under max at 10 for each that's 60? That's over the Feds 50 then. Kind of an awkward thing there.

 

Mind you, I'm not sure that even 60 plants would be needing to grow anyway.

[+RevThad]

Not to be dumb but... If a patient is growing for five other patients too, and can have 12 plants for each. That's 72 plants right? Even keeping under max at 10 for each that's 60? That's over the Feds 50 then. Kind of an awkward thing there.

 

Mind you, I'm not sure that even 60 plants would be needing to grow anyway.

You are correct in your reading between the lines. It is an awkward situation and a conflict between state and federal law. Putting things into perspective though, one can look at the "Compendium of Federal Justice Statistics" and see that 99 out of 100 arrests relating to marijuana are made under state law and not federal; meaning far less arrests should be occurring in our state. Also, the current administration has issued a somewhat friendly order about federal interventions in medical marijuana states, not to prosecute those complying with state laws...

 

Just remember that nothing in the federal law prevents a rogue DEA agent from trying to make a name for themselves by enforcing the law on the books... so be careful out there.

 

As for the topic at hand, inspections for the sake of inspections would be a violation of various constitutional protections and a violation of our state law. There is no reason for local, county, or state LEO to have any idea who is registered, save a direct situation that requires them to verify a card presented to them to prove a person is registered.

[Kingdiamond]

You have no reason to submit to a search for any reason present your card after that close the door in their face no warrant no inspections period.

 

This reminds me of the post a week back that some heard that Bouchard instructed each and every patient and caregiver to turn their plants in or risk being arrested its called

 

PROPAGANDA

 

Fool people into turning themeselves in or alerting authoritys to their legal status and location.

[BubbleBerryKush]

I dont understand why the state is even pushing for inspections.....some people are arguing that any herbicide or pesticide could me used during the manufacturing of our medicine, but that should be up to the patient and the caregiver to determine before they agree on pairing up...

 

does the state inspect everyone who privately grows vegetables and offers them at a farmers market? I dont see where the state has to step in and inspect anything....

[mgfjr]

50 plants is where mandatory mins start kicking in on the federal level. 1 plant is a federal offense, but isn't worth the man-hours it would consume to prosecute, for the likely outcome of the case.

my lawyer said its under 100 plants not under 50. The federal law state if caught with under 100 plants its probation anythng over is 5 years mandatory.

[MacombCountyCaregiver]

I've heard from multiple places its 49. I'd triple check, you lawyer could be mistaken

[+RevThad]

my lawyer said its under 100 plants not under 50. The federal law state if caught with under 100 plants its probation anythng over is 5 years mandatory.

Here is the breakdown from the feds... Source: http://www.justice.gov/dea/agency/penalties.htm

 

Marijuana - 1 to 49 plants; less than 50 kg mixture -

First Offense:

* Not more than 5 years

* Fine not more than $250,000, $1 million other than individual

Second Offense:

* Not more than 10 years

* Fine $500,000 if an individual, $2 million if other than individual

 

 

Marijuana - more than 10 kgs hashish; 50 to 99 kg mixture; more than 1 kg of hashish oil; 50 to 99 plants -

First Offense

* Not more than 20 years

* If death or serious injury, not less than 20 years, not more than life

* Fine $1 million if an individual, $5 million if other than an individual

Second Offense

* Not more than 30 years

* If death or seroius injury, mandatory life

* Fine $2 million if an individual, $10 million if other than individual

 

 

Marijuana - 100 kg to 999 kg mixture; or 100 to 999 plants -

First Offense

* Not less than 5 years, not more than 40 years

* If death or serous injury, not less than 20 years, not more than life

* Fine not more than $2 million if an individual, $5 million if other than an individual

Second Offense

* Not less than 10 years, not more than life

* If death or serious injury, mandatory life

* Fine not more than $4 million if an individual, $10 million if other than an individual

 

While probation is likely or probable for 99 plants or under, one could still be facing up to 20 years in a federal prison for having 50+ plants... I am often accused of being very liberal with the advice I give, this is one area that I am very cautious about stressing the dangers of.

 

With some common sense, one should never find themselves being raided by the feds, however it is rumored that various local municipalities have dropped the dime to have the DEA come raid an individual. Just be careful out there.

[peacefulfield]

Grand Rapids is pushing for (what they call) Safe Grow Inspections. They want to inspect cardholders spaces for... Bad wiring, unsafe practices, health and/or make sure it meets some kind of code or standards. I think this is just some way for local government to get inside your business.

West Michigan is a very Conservative (old fashioned group). Allot of city's here (I think) are still Shocked of the MM laws that passed.

Grand Haven has hinted about this kind of inspection as well.

[THC Advisor]

So like I figured, it isn't implied that searches are to be expected. Is there somewhere in the law that would protect us from such inspections? Citation or a quick copy and paste of the law itself would be appreciated. Thanks again.

[+RevThad]

So like I figured, it isn't implied that searches are to be expected. Is there somewhere in the law that would protect us from such inspections? Citation or a quick copy and paste of the law itself would be appreciated. Thanks again.

You mean besides "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." and the 1961 SCOTUS ruling that applied Due Process to the states...

 

YES, the MMMAct does protect against such things:

 

(g) Possession of, or application for, a registry identification card shall not constitute probable cause or reasonable suspicion, nor shall it be used to support the search of the person or property of the person possessing or applying for the registry identification card, or otherwise subject the person or property of the person to inspection by any local, county or state governmental agency.

 

[Hempcheff]

You mean besides "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." and the 1961 SCOTUS ruling that applied Due Process to the states...

 

YES, the MMMAct does protect against such things:

 

(g) Possession of, or application for, a registry identification card shall not constitute probable cause or reasonable suspicion, nor shall it be used to support the search of the person or property of the person possessing or applying for the registry identification card, or otherwise subject the person or property of the person to inspection by any local, county or state governmental agency.

 

 

Rev, I have to say, yet again, im wholly impressed with your intimate knowledge of matters regarding the MMMA, You are an inspiration to us, keep up the good work. Please!

[+RevThad]

For the record that quote is from Section 6 of the MMMAct.

[westmich]

Here is the breakdown from the feds... Source: http://www.justice.gov/dea/agency/penalties.htm

 

Marijuana - 1 to 49 plants; less than 50 kg mixture -

First Offense:

* Not more than 5 years

* Fine not more than $250,000, $1 million other than individual

Second Offense:

* Not more than 10 years

* Fine $500,000 if an individual, $2 million if other than individual

 

 

Marijuana - more than 10 kgs hashish; 50 to 99 kg mixture; more than 1 kg of hashish oil; 50 to 99 plants -

First Offense

* Not more than 20 years

* If death or serious injury, not less than 20 years, not more than life

* Fine $1 million if an individual, $5 million if other than an individual

Second Offense

* Not more than 30 years

* If death or seroius injury, mandatory life

* Fine $2 million if an individual, $10 million if other than individual

 

 

Marijuana - 100 kg to 999 kg mixture; or 100 to 999 plants -

First Offense

* Not less than 5 years, not more than 40 years

* If death or serous injury, not less than 20 years, not more than life

* Fine not more than $2 million if an individual, $5 million if other than an individual

Second Offense

* Not less than 10 years, not more than life

* If death or serious injury, mandatory life

* Fine not more than $4 million if an individual, $10 million if other than an individual

 

Am I misunderstanding something here? mgfjr said his lawyer said minimum didn't kick in until you have 100 plants. The post you made backs that up. Where are you getting a minimum sentence for under 100 plants?

[+RevThad]

Am I misunderstanding something here? mgfjr said his lawyer said minimum didn't kick in until you have 100 plants. The post you made backs that up. Where are you getting a minimum sentence for under 100 plants?

I was agreeing with them on the min jail times not kicking in until then, but pointing out that the fines do. Also wanted to make sure that folks realized that according to federal law, you would be facing up to 20 years for going over the 49 plant mark.

 

That post was just to illustrate what the law does allow.

[Rashore]

Grand Rapids is pushing for (what they call) Safe Grow Inspections. They want to inspect cardholders spaces for... Bad wiring, unsafe practices, health and/or make sure it meets some kind of code or standards. I think this is just some way for local government to get inside your business.

West Michigan is a very Conservative (old fashioned group). Allot of city's here (I think) are still Shocked of the MM laws that passed.

Grand Haven has hinted about this kind of inspection as well.

 

 

I suppose I can see the point of the City wanting to make sure you are up to building code on the structure/setup itself. Just like there are building codes and permits to put up a regular greenhouse in your backyard or bathroom in your basement.

But it's to my understanding (And I bet the Good Rev can confirm it or not) that they really shouldn't get into what is grown after the construction and wiring is done.

[Mememe]

Michigan cottage industry laws

http://www.agandfoodlaw.com/2010/07/mi-bills-allow-sale-of-homemade-cottage.html

 

The standards apply to businesses with gross income of less than $15,000 per year who make and sell foods classified as "non-potentially hazardous foods" meaning that they do not require temperature control for safety. Foods on the list include baked goods, pies, cereal, candy, dry mixes, popcorn, coffee, jams, jellies, vinegar, and dried herbs.

[+JuztBudz]

No city ordinance can go beyond the scope of state law, the MDCH attempted to press an issue of inspections down our throats, along with 18 other significant changes back in January of '09 when this law was being put through its inception. Well over 100 of us showed up at the public hearings in Lansing to challenge the proposed changes and the MDCH backed down on all 19 changes when they wrote their final draft. So thank your local cannabis activist, without them we not only would have inspections, but our living rooms would be considered public property and we'd not be able to medicate in our own homes!

Peace...j.b.

[Rashore]

Michigan cottage industry laws

http://www.agandfoodlaw.com/2010/07/mi-bills-allow-sale-of-homemade-cottage.html

 

The standards apply to businesses with gross income of less than $15,000 per year who make and sell foods classified as "non-potentially hazardous foods" meaning that they do not require temperature control for safety. Foods on the list include baked goods, pies, cereal, candy, dry mixes, popcorn, coffee, jams, jellies, vinegar, and dried herbs.

 

 

That is an awesome link... Thank you Mememe!