How Obama Saved Capitalism And Lost The Midterms

[greenbuddha]

Hell, I'm a huge nut!

 

But, I don't try and be a "fecal matter stirrer" like snipped out by pb

edited out by peanutbutter. Might edit out even more.

 

 

Mizerman

 

 

My theme song, Mize.

 

A song is worth a thousand pictures.

 

 

[MLM]

http://www.kipling.org.uk/

 

 

The Gods of the Copybook Headings

 

 

 

AS I PASS through my incarnations in every age and race,

I make my proper prostrations to the Gods of the Market Place.

Peering through reverent fingers I watch them flourish and fall,

And the Gods of the Copybook Headings, I notice, outlast them all.

 

We were living in trees when they met us. They showed us each in turn

That Water would certainly wet us, as Fire would certainly burn:

But we found them lacking in Uplift, Vision and Breadth of Mind,

So we left them to teach the Gorillas while we followed the March of Mankind.

 

We moved as the Spirit listed. They never altered their pace,

Being neither cloud nor wind-borne like the Gods of the Market Place,

But they always caught up with our progress, and presently word would come

That a tribe had been wiped off its icefield, or the lights had gone out in Rome.

 

With the Hopes that our World is built on they were utterly out of touch,

They denied that the Moon was Stilton; they denied she was even Dutch;

They denied that Wishes were Horses; they denied that a Pig had Wings;

So we worshipped the Gods of the Market Who promised these beautiful things.

 

When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.

They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.

But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,

And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know."

 

On the first Feminian Sandstones we were promised the Fuller Life

(Which started by loving our neighbour and ended by loving his wife)

Till our women had no more children and the men lost reason and faith,

And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "The Wages of Sin is Death."

 

In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all,

By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul;

But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy,

And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "If you don't work you die."

 

Then the Gods of the Market tumbled, and their smooth-tongued wizards withdrew

And the hearts of the meanest were humbled and began to believe it was true

That All is not Gold that Glitters, and Two and Two make Four

And the Gods of the Copybook Headings limped up to explain it once more.

 

As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man

There are only four things certain since Social Progress began.

That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,

And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;

 

And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins

When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,

As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn,

The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!

 

 

[greenbuddha]

MLM, and the 'beat' goes on.

 

Always keep your eye on the 'drummer'.. especially if your marching to a different tune.

[MLM]

MLM, and the 'beat' goes on.

 

Always keep your eye on the 'drummer'.. especially if your marching to a different tune.

 

It is relevant to the post that started this thread, you just gotta think a little. If not here ya go, Gods of the Copybook explained.

 

 

Edited to include explanation link.

[greenbuddha]

Yes, and I always liked the character called 'Peachy' in 'The Man that Would Be King' , also by our friend Mr. Kipling.

 

Another story with an 'excellent' message.

[FloridityNow]

And the biggest of the big money is the federal reserve.

 

The MFs should kick out the income tax jams, too. As the poet lariat once said, "Income tax has made more liars out of people than golf."

[+420Atheist]

I don't know if you are the biggest liar or the biggest making whoopee moron I have ever see. The stock market hit it's highest point EVER under Bush. 14000 you idiot. After Obama was elected it hit a major low. Obama has overseen the worst stock market performance in the history of America for a new president. Do you even live in the USA?

 

When Bush left office the DOW was down to 8000. That was 1000 lower than when he took over office from Clinton. When Obama took over it fell another 500 points or so before it started to turn around. For the matter of fact it saw the biggest increase in one year ever under Obama. Also worth noting that Clinton tripled the DOW going from 3000 when he took over from Reagan to 9000 when Bush took over. Your revisionist history is either disingenuous or ignorance.

[mizerman]

When Bush left office the DOW was down to 8000. That was 1000 lower than when he took over office from Clinton. When Obama took over it fell another 500 points or so before it started to turn around. For the matter of fact it saw the biggest increase in one year ever under Obama. Also worth noting that Clinton tripled the DOW going from 3000 when he took over from Reagan to 9000 when Bush took over. Your revisionist history is either disingenuous or ignorance.

Her revisionist history is BOTH!

 

LMAO!

 

Mizerman

[+420Atheist]

 

 

One of the major underlying problems that caused the 'crash' was that the banks were 'allowed' to set up stock purchasing / selling companies and the 'banks' then proceeded to artificially boost stock prices by manipulating 'buys' and 'sells' as well as 'bond' ratings.

 

 

I am not an economist but from what I see deregulation caused the rash. Real Estate Agents got the highest loans they could for their clients because they got 4 to 7% for the sale. No one was regulating them. The mortgage company gave out bad sub prime loans because they knew they were going to bundle them into securities and sell them on the open market. The regulators were not stopping this practice and we are making our money on it so why not. Then wall street paid bond rating companies to rate the securities and if they didn't like what they rated them they would just go to another rating companies. So the ratings companies started rating everything AAA because they did not want to lose the job and no regulators were double checking that their ratings were fair so why not? Once the securities were rated AAA wall street sold them to hedge funds and other investors. What really topped it off was wall street had convinced Congress and Bush signed off on allowing them to create "Credit Default Swaps" without regulatory oversight. Now Credit Default Swaps are just insurance in case the securities failed but they didn't call it insurance because that would be subject to regulation. Wall Street then took out credit default swaps on those securities they knew were bundled together to fail. Effectively betting against their own clients they were selling the securities to.

 

How no one went to prison for this fraud is beyond me. If you or I had done the same thing and sold something under false pretenses that we later got rich on we would be in prison for sure. I guess we just don't have a good enough lobby.

[mizerman]

I am not an economist but from what I see deregulation caused the rash. Real Estate Agents got the highest loans they could for their clients because they got 4 to 7% for the sale. No one was regulating them. The mortgage company gave out bad sub prime loans because they knew they were going to bundle them into securities and sell them on the open market. The regulators were not stopping this practice and we are making our money on it so why not. Then wall street paid bond rating companies to rate the securities and if they didn't like what they rated them they would just go to another rating companies. So the ratings companies started rating everything AAA because they did not want to lose the job and no regulators were double checking that their ratings were fair so why not? Once the securities were rated AAA wall street sold them to hedge funds and other investors. What really topped it off was wall street had convinced Congress and Bush signed off on allowing them to create "Credit Default Swaps" without regulatory oversight. Now Credit Default Swaps are just insurance in case the securities failed but they didn't call it insurance because that would be subject to regulation. Wall Street then took out credit default swaps on those securities they knew were bundled together to fail. Effectively betting against their own clients they were selling the securities to.

 

How no one went to prison for this fraud is beyond me. If you or I had done the same thing and sold something under false pretenses that we later got rich on we would be in prison for sure. I guess we just don't have a good enough lobby.

Well said - you hit the nail on the head!

[peanutbutter]

Naa ...

 

Watch the money.

 

There needs to be money in circulation for the economy to float.

 

Pull some cash back, and you slow it down.

Push cash out, and it speeds up.

 

There are several ways that the fed changes the amount of the cash in the economy. Many have nothing to do with setting interest rates.

 

When we had a spike in oil prices, there was a sudden massive cash flow out of the US. The system came to a standstill.

 

The elected government pushed out cash .. trillions.

 

The fed is still trying to push cash into the economy.

 

I believe they paused before the election. Then began again the day after.

[+420Atheist]

 

Pull some cash back, and you slow it down.

Push cash out, and it speeds up.

 

 

I don't really agree with that. Pumping money into the economy causes inflation but not recession. Zimbabwe got both but only because their GDP sucked too.

[peanutbutter]

I don't really agree with that. Pumping money into the economy causes inflation but not recession. Zimbabwe got both but only because their GDP sucked too.

 

There is a momentum to the economy. The changes on the grease (cash) take a little time.

 

But without enough grease the wheels slow down and then stop.

 

The hard part is to get traction to get moving again. Like pushing on a string sometimes.

 

Cash pushed out into the economy has to make it to the consumer.

 

Most of the time cash is pushed out into the banks. The banks are slow to hand it out to customers, so they put the cash out into places like the stock market.

 

Problems happen when the consumer doesn't spend. When the consumer used cash to pay down debt, the money isn't being transacted in the economy. The "grease" doesn't make it to the wheels.

 

In that case the economy still doesn't improve and we are finally left with hyper inflation in a stalled economy.

[greenbuddha]

I am not an economist but from what I see deregulation caused the rash. Real Estate Agents got the highest loans they could for their clients because they got 4 to 7% for the sale. No one was regulating them. The mortgage company gave out bad sub prime loans because they knew they were going to bundle them into securities and sell them on the open market. The regulators were not stopping this practice and we are making our money on it so why not. Then wall street paid bond rating companies to rate the securities and if they didn't like what they rated them they would just go to another rating companies. So the ratings companies started rating everything AAA because they did not want to lose the job and no regulators were double checking that their ratings were fair so why not? Once the securities were rated AAA wall street sold them to hedge funds and other investors. What really topped it off was wall street had convinced Congress and Bush signed off on allowing them to create "Credit Default Swaps" without regulatory oversight. Now Credit Default Swaps are just insurance in case the securities failed but they didn't call it insurance because that would be subject to regulation. Wall Street then took out credit default swaps on those securities they knew were bundled together to fail. Effectively betting against their own clients they were selling the securities to.

 

How no one went to prison for this fraud is beyond me. If you or I had done the same thing and sold something under false pretenses that we later got rich on we would be in prison for sure. I guess we just don't have a good enough lobby.

 

100% on the 'money'.

 

If you or I did what was done by the banks and Wall Street we would definitely be 'in jail'.

 

But it points out that if you 'go big enough' with the crime and 'cover' it with enough paperwork you can get away with ANYTHING and the government will even pay you in the form of a 'bailout' so that no one starts pointing fingers.

 

"And the band played on".

[greenbuddha]

Quote from Pb's post # 38. 'Problems happen when the consumer doesn't spend. When the consumer used cash to pay down debt, the money isn't being transacted in the economy. The "grease" doesn't make it to the wheels.'

 

Pb... and if the price of gas goes up to around $4.00 a gallon and stays there for for a while there will be an economic mess of HUGE proportions.

 

If that were to happen it might even cause the Republicans to do something that would finally cause h*ll to freeze over... they might even have to 'freeze' gas prices.

 

Gonna be an interesting two years before the next elections.

[greenbuddha]

There is a momentum to the economy. The changes on the grease (cash) take a little time.

 

But without enough grease the wheels slow down and then stop.

 

The hard part is to get traction to get moving again. Like pushing on a string sometimes.

 

Cash pushed out into the economy has to make it to the consumer.

 

Most of the time cash is pushed out into the banks. The banks are slow to hand it out to customers, so they put the cash out into places like the stock market.

 

Problems happen when the consumer doesn't spend. When the consumer used cash to pay down debt, the money isn't being transacted in the economy. The "grease" doesn't make it to the wheels.

 

In that case the economy still doesn't improve and we are finally left with hyper inflation in a stalled economy.

 

 

 

They (monetary branch of the gov.) are definitely trying to manipulate the 'cash flow' to stimulate the economy... too much and we have inflation... too little and no jobs get created.

 

The problem is that the economy WILL NEVER return to what it was before 'the crash', juggle things as they may.

 

'That' economy was based on an 'artificially created 'real estate bubble' the type of which this country will NEVER see again... not if the 'government' puts into place the 'reforms' needed to prevent such a crisis from occurring again... a Catch 22 situation... darned if we do and darned if we don't.

 

Our politicians are actually going to have to 'think' for a change... passing the buck and bull sh*tting the voters is not going to work much longer.

[+itssortalegal10]

Yeah for real we have this benefits card we can use for doc. visits dentists eye doctors glasses prescriptions and otc meds. OBAMA made sure that now we cant use that card if our kid gets sick..We cant just run up to rite aid and buy some cold medicine.. WE HAVE TO TAKE THEM TO THE DOCTORS AND HAVE THEM PRESCRIBE OTC MEDS!!!!! Way to make sure everyone makes lots of money...I think the change he was talking about was the change in our pockets for real!

[solabeirtan]

The face value of the US G.eagle (1 oz) today is $50. Other than that it is the same weight, etc. You're right the Value in Tax inflated dollars is similar, at $1400 USD (Large Bills Only, please) today, is equitable . However if the coin you had, said $20 on it, you would have to check the date of the coin for its more accurate current value. ie it is obviously an older, hence more valuable coin than the 2010 G.eagle.

 

Our money has been gutted as far as value goes.

 

My case:

 

How much bud could you purchase with 20$ if that 20$ were a 20$ gold coin?

 

Today that $20 gold coin would be worth about 1,300 paper dollars.

 

Today you can purchase a quarter pound of the highest grade cannabis for only $20.. as long as you use "hard" money.

 

In all the time between 1959 and today, cannabis has kept it's value much more than the federal reserve controlled paper.

 

I could have paid the right person back then a gram per hour for labor. I can do the same today.

 

ps As far as the Supply of Cash in Circulation, they have been sucking it up like BP down in the Gulf. Remember the scare of counterfieting, the reason behind the Pretty much completed currency change that has been goin on since around 95/96.

 

They're still selling the poo out of those counterfiet detection pens, those things pretty much deputized every cashier in the World. Thing is: there's less and less and less cash making the rounds.

 

How about the most sinister form of currency yet, electronic. Like the commercials on TV, it even tells you if it is a little stinky, via your Credit Scores. Not only is it based on nothing but pure trust, it doesnt even provide any evidence other than transaction reciepts printed with invisible ink. Think Im exagerating, check out some of the laws governing Banking Regulations.

 

One disturbing thing Ive discovered is that No one keeps records of your transactions over 10 years. Not that long when compared to Mortgages, Land Contracts, Marraiges, etc... The reason: it is the Law. How convenient. No matter how much money you have, you cant buy more accountability. Its the Law. Not about providing Good Service, anymore. It's about squeezing the Middle Class and shaking them till all their Coins fall out ...

[FloridityNow]

Yeah for real we have this benefits card we can use for doc. visits dentists eye doctors glasses prescriptions and otc meds. OBAMA made sure that now we cant use that card if our kid gets sick..We cant just run up to rite aid and buy some cold medicine.. WE HAVE TO TAKE THEM TO THE DOCTORS AND HAVE THEM PRESCRIBE OTC MEDS!!!!! Way to make sure everyone makes lots of money...I think the change he was talking about was the change in our pockets for real!

 

We received a check for $250 to help cover the "donut hole" gap for prescription medicines until there's a better fix. That helps a lot. When you say "Obama made sure," you should consider that both parties had a hand in it's final form. You might also consider that the changes made to the reforms reflect the Republican proposals of the Clinton years.

[phaquetoo]

Our money has been gutted as far as value goes.

 

My case:

 

How much bud could you purchase with 20$ if that 20$ were a 20$ gold coin?

 

Today that $20 gold coin would be worth about 1,300 paper dollars.

 

Today you can purchase a quarter pound of the highest grade cannabis for only $20.. as long as you use "hard" money.

 

In all the time between 1959 and today, cannabis has kept it's value much more than the federal reserve controlled paper.

 

I could have paid the right person back then a gram per hour for labor. I can do the same today.

 

 

thats true and it would be a good pay day for them!

 

Peace

FTW

Jim

[phaquetoo]

They (monetary branch of the gov.) are definitely trying to manipulate the 'cash flow' to stimulate the economy... too much and we have inflation... too little and no jobs get created.

 

The problem is that the economy WILL NEVER return to what it was before 'the crash', juggle things as they may.

 

'That' economy was based an 'artificially created 'real estate bubble' the type of which this country will NEVER see again... not if the 'government' puts into place the 'reforms' needed to prevent such a crisis from occurring again... a Catch 22 situation... darned if we do and darned if we don't.

 

Our politicians are actually going to have to 'think' for a change... passing the buck and bull sh*tting the voters is not going to work much longer.

 

 

but at least those of us that can get caught up, and we dont go in debt any longer, my house was in forclosure, it no longer is and is getting paid a month a head of time, so are all of my other bills that can be/ if i cant pay them early i save the cash for the day they are due, and pay them, no more surprises here, i got my budget down and got a good grip on it, and im not letting the economy mess me up again, i dont need a car loan i dont need any loans the only i have is for well(not mine)is my girls house and we got that a month ahead of time also, fucke the economy, if i dont have the cash for it, i dont need it!

 

Peace

FTW

Jim

[peanutbutter]

They (monetary branch of the gov.) are definitely trying to manipulate the 'cash flow' to stimulate the economy... too much and we have inflation... too little and no jobs get created.

 

To manipulate the "cash flow" is the entire purpose of the privately held corporation known as the Federal Reserve. The GAO can't inspect their books. It is isolated from the government. That's why Ron Paul is trying to pass a law that would require then to come clean.

 

And when cash is pulled out of the economy, it brings us toward recession and depression. That is going past "less jobs created." It is the destruction of jobs.

 

Remember how frugal the people of the great depression became? That was a part of the cause of it continuing. No money moving in the economy.

 

What helped the economy to start moving again was the alcohol people. Drunk people are more willing to spend money.

[greenbuddha]

To manipulate the "cash flow" is the entire purpose of the privately held corporation known as the Federal Reserve. The GAO can't inspect their books. It is isolated from the government. That's why Ron Paul is trying to pass a law that would require then to come clean.

 

And when cash is pulled out of the economy, it brings us toward recession and depression. That is going past "less jobs created." It is the destruction of jobs.

 

Remember how frugal the people of the great depression became? That was a part of the cause of it continuing. No money moving in the economy.

 

What helped the economy to start moving again was the alcohol people. Drunk people are more willing to spend money.

 

 

 

Most people don't see it or just don't understand it.

 

We have all lived in a 'Socially Manipulated' country for decades.

 

But before now as a country we always had enough money to 'throw' at the problems that came up and everything was 'just peachy'... not that way anymore.

 

A 'Free Market' in the U.S.A. and every other country in the world is a VERY large myth.

 

NOT the 'Republicans' ( and sorry, Pb) not even Ron Paul could restore a 'free market' system to our country... look what happened when the 'banks' were deregulated to allow them to sell stocks and bonds and make 'bad loans'... 'CRASH'.

 

So for anyone to complain that Obama or any other president is going 'socialist' on us is a complaint that just won't hold up... we've been there for some time now.

 

Some people will say, "Yeh. But ... we never went this far before!"

 

It is ALL just a matter of how it is put to us and how we perceive it. Because what is the government 'pushing money' into the economy 'other' than 'socialized' economics' whether it is the Repubs or the Dems that do it? (Bush approved the 'bailout money' to the banks and 'stock brokerages' for those that might not be aware of that... and HE was a Republican).

 

But my gripe is... if we are going to be manipulated anyway... 'why don't they throw us a bone and 'legalize cannabis'... and YES I am serious.

 

Happy smiling citizens is what we need and want... good God... we're already controlled from the cradle to the grave... why not lets us get a 'little smile' on once in a while.

 

They make a bit more 'tax' money to play games with and we get to reduce our pain and maybe even 'recreate' once in a while.

 

Makes sense to me...

 

But to complain that we are going 'socialist'... come on take a look around ya!

 

(not that you were complaining about going 'socialist, Pb. Just had to get up on the 'soap box' for a minute.)

[+420Atheist]

Most people don't see it or just don't understand it.

 

We have all lived in a 'Socially Manipulated' country for decades.

 

But before now as a country we always had enough money to 'throw' at the problems that came up and everything was 'just peachy'... not that way anymore.

 

A 'Free Market' in the U.S.A. and every other country in the world is a VERY large myth.

 

NOT the 'Republicans' ( and sorry, Pb) not even Ron Paul could restore a 'free market' system to our country... look what happened when the 'banks' were deregulated to allow them to sell stocks and bonds and make 'bad loans'... 'CRASH'.

 

So for anyone to complain that Obama or any other president is going 'socialist' on us is a complaint that just won't hold up... we've been there for some time now.

 

Some people will say, "Yeh. But ... we never went this far before!"

 

It is ALL just a matter of how it is put to us and how we perceive it. Because what is the government 'pushing money' into the economy 'other' than 'socialized' economics' whether it is the Repubs or the Dems that do it? (Bush approved the 'bailout money' to the banks and 'stock brokerages' for those that might not be aware of that... and HE was a Republican).

 

But my gripe is... if we are going to be manipulated anyway... 'why don't they throw us a bone and 'legalize cannabis'... and YES I am serious.

 

Happy smiling citizens is what we need and want... good God... we're already controlled from the cradle to the grave... why not lets us get a 'little smile' on once in a while.

 

They make a bit more 'tax' money to play games with and we get to reduce our pain and maybe even 'recreate' once in a while.

 

Makes sense to me...

 

But to complain that we are going 'socialist'... come on take a look around ya!

 

(not that you were complaining about going 'socialist, Pb. Just had to get up on the 'soap box' for a minute.)

 

 

What is really interesting is you don't have to have a PHD in history to see the same factors that caused the Great Depression were at play in our Great Recession. The run on the banks were caused by the market crash that was caused by . . . securities. Oh they were not bundled mortgage securities. No they were securities from other countries mostly in South America. But junk securities none the less.

 

Any economy based on consumerism with the requirement to constantly grow is doomed to failure. If someone does not agree with that please point to an economy that has not eventually failed. However economies not based on greed but on mutual survival have flourished for tens of thousands of years. These are the tribal local economies that support people all over the world. And when you see pictures of these people for some reason there are smiling faces everywhere.

[greenbuddha]

but at least those of us that can get caught up, and we dont go in debt any longer, my house was in forclosure, it no longer is and is getting paid a month a head of time, so are all of my other bills that can be/ if i cant pay them early i save the cash for the day they are due, and pay them, no more surprises here, i got my budget down and got a good grip on it, and im not letting the economy mess me up again, i dont need a car loan i dont need any loans the only i have is for well(not mine)is my girls house and we got that a month ahead of time also, fucke the economy, if i dont have the cash for it, i dont need it!

 

Peace

FTW

Jim

 

Smart man, brother.

 

And I believe the 'rest' of the country is gonna have to get 'hip' to the same thing.

 

Just gonna be 'real' hard for some people.