Mmmp And Firearms Issues.

[Smotpoke]

I was reading some posts regarding the abuses by LEO against MMMP cardholders and their constitutional right to keep and bear arms. I'm a current holder of valid MMMP, CCW and a Dept. of Defense arming authority. As I have a very good relationship with my local police (only 4 officers) I asked them how they would react knowing someone owns firearms as well as holding an MMMP card. "It depends on the person, if the person is a low life piece of bunny muffin then they will find a way to prosecute them. If they are just someone operating within the law then it is their duty to protect that persons rights under the Michigan constitution." was the response

Not all cops are bad especially when you get away from the cities. Many cops like soldiers are only following orders and it is their leaders we should point our attention to. A few hundred people outside an officers home will send a big statement to the officer as well as his fellow officers. I would also like to see a listing of officers who have violated the MMMP law have their pictures and profile listed on this site. Profile should include any and all personnel info the community can get on said officers by legal means. As LEO collects data on card holders we should be doing the same to them. An officer would be less likely to abuse his authority if his name and home address was posted publicly for doing so. Especially if we had a rally at one of these officers homes every month.

My methods may seem extreme to many however they would work. Provided we all stay NON VIOLENT any actions by LEO would be unconstitutional and then and only then would we be within our rights to defend our constitutional rights.

 

 

 

Sorry I did not grammer or spell check as my give-o-bunny muffin meter is on empty.

[nthlghts]

And who may I ask determines "low-life"! That is a problem with the police, maybe they should just do their job and follow the law.

[Guest finallyfree09]

It depends on the person? Not all cops are bad?..... Got news for ya.... These ones that you know aren't good, soooo.... Good luck with that.

 

Depends on the person.... SHEESH

[bobandtorey]

And who may I ask determines "low-life"! That is a problem with the police, maybe they should just do their job and follow the law.

 

 

Am no Lawyer but if Leo comes atleast inn Oakland County and you have a gun and they find it it wont be good and being a Low life do you mean like a pot head

[hofner67]

I respect the right to bear arms. I, however, don't have one. Last thing I need to worry about is a "piled on" felony charge.

 

I am in this program to stay out of trouble. Instead, I fear. And a felony fire arm charge is far more than I bargained for.

[trix]

I respect the right to bear arms. I, however, don't have one. Last thing I need to worry about is a "piled on" felony charge.

 

I am in this program to stay out of trouble. Instead, I fear. And a felony fire arm charge is far more than I bargained for.

 

I feel you, a felony firearm charge is 2 yrs mandatory in the state of Michigan. its more than I can handle as well..

 

I'm pissed cause I can't play even the simplest sport due to my bleeding disorder, My handgun was legal and registered, the shooting range is the one sport I could do safely w/o causing injury to my body. LEO is playing dirty real dirty by holding this gun charge over my head, they have us by the balls cause they are holding strong to the fact that growing MJ is illegal still in Michigan, I know many of you may disagree because you have a card and you have been told its legal. That's a lie. The court trumps that by using the federal law in which it says manufacturing marijuana is a felony, also possession of a firearm while committing a felony. yer toast.

 

I feel like were all fighting a losing battle the government is gonna have to change the particulars of several laws in order for me to feel safe again. They say they want this law to change, but it seems they are fine with it the way it is now cause they have the upper hand due to the so called gray areas that they are benefiting from..

 

Trix

 

P.S. here is a small excerpt from the C.O.A, on the subject. http://coa.courts.mi..._298065.OPN.PDF

 

Defense Counsel. Another crime you have to pay attention to, and the judge is going to read to you, is possession of marijuana. And I want you to be very careful. Possession of marijuana is totally different from manufacturing marijuana. Manufacturing marijuana, the judge will tell you, is a felony.

Prosecutor. Objection, your honor.

Trial Court. Sustained.

Defense Counsel. Possession of marijuana—the judge will give you different crimes and, therefore, one crime she’s going to read to you is the instruction which is [sic] possession of marijuana. And if for some odd reason you feel someone possesses marijuana while in possession of a gun, that is not felony-firearm. . . . I want to make sure you understand possession of marijuana, while having a gun, is not felony-firearm. And that you have to have the gun in your possession in furtherance of the crime, to make it a felony-firearm. In rebuttal, the prosecutor did not mention possession of marijuana, but reiterated, “f you decided you are going to manufacture marijuana and have guns you’re guilty of felony-firearm.”

Finally, the trial court clearly instructed the jury that they must find that defendant “committed or attempted to commit the crime of manufacture of marijuana” in order to convict defendant of felony-firearm. The court also instructed the jury, “It is not necessary, however, that the defendant be convicted of [the crime of manufacture of marijuana].”Thus, the jury was not presented with confusing information regarding what was required.

Edited March 19, 2011 by trix

[bobandtorey]

I feel you, a felony firearm charge is 2 yrs mandatory in the state of Michigan. its more than I can handle as well..

 

I'm pissed cause I can't play even the simplest sport due to my bleeding disorder, My handgun was legal and registered, the shooting range is the one sport I could do safely w/o causing injury to my body. LEO is playing dirty real dirty by holding this gun charge over my head, they have us by the balls cause they are holding strong to the fact that growing MJ is illegal still in Michigan, I know many of you may disagree because you have a card and you have been told its legal. That's a lie. The court trumps that by using the federal law in which it says manufacturing marijuana is a felony, also possession of a firearm while committing a felony. yer toast.

 

I feel like were all fighting a losing battle the government is gonna have to change the particulars of several laws in order for me to feel safe again. They say they want this law to change, but it seems they are fine with it the way it is now cause they have the upper hand due to the so called gray areas that they are benefiting from..

 

Trix

 

P.S. here is a small excerpt from the C.O.A, on the subject. http://coa.courts.mi..._298065.OPN.PDF

 

Defense Counsel. Another crime you have to pay attention to, and the judge is going to read to you, is possession of marijuana. And I want you to be very careful. Possession of marijuana is totally different from manufacturing marijuana. Manufacturing marijuana, the judge will tell you, is a felony.

Prosecutor. Objection, your honor.

Trial Court. Sustained.

Defense Counsel. Possession of marijuana—the judge will give you different crimes and, therefore, one crime she’s going to read to you is the instruction which is [sic] possession of marijuana. And if for some odd reason you feel someone possesses marijuana while in possession of a gun, that is not felony-firearm. . . . I want to make sure you understand possession of marijuana, while having a gun, is not felony-firearm. And that you have to have the gun in your possession in furtherance of the crime, to make it a felony-firearm. In rebuttal, the prosecutor did not mention possession of marijuana, but reiterated, “f you decided you are going to manufacture marijuana and have guns you’re guilty of felony-firearm.”

Finally, the trial court clearly instructed the jury that they must find that defendant “committed or attempted to commit the crime of manufacture of marijuana” in order to convict defendant of felony-firearm. The court also instructed the jury, “It is not necessary, however, that the defendant be convicted of [the crime of manufacture of marijuana].”Thus, the jury was not presented with confusing information regarding what was required.

i knew you would reply to this thread because you and i no what is going on inn the court rooms because we have been their now don't get me wrong i think people should be able to have a gun

but Leo would feel the same

[Smotpoke]

Not all LEOs are bad. Only by working within the law will we change minds. Changing the mind of your buddy while you sit on the couch smoking a spliff trashing LEO's isnt going to help win any hearts and minds.Well maybe a vote if they even bother to do that. These same cops are the first responders in many cases when you need help. When criminals and/or terrorist decide to have a killing spree it is our local law enforcement who will be the ones laying down their lives for yours while you run safety. Think that it doesn't happen then watch the news, alot of them have been killed already this year.

I'm all for outting those LEO's who abuse the badge and it's authority. I would even protest (Peacefully) within the law to make their lives as miserable as those they have abused. But we should never perposefully make them into adversaries by screaming all cops are bad. If you think we got 64% of the vote without many of them being LEO votes then you give yourself to much credit.

Peaceful Protests (against those directly responsible), Civil suits against individual LEOs and Departments are the way to fight this abuse of voter intent. Individual officers generally dont have the money to fight a civil suite nor do many Departments. Hold all the rallies you want, you may get some local coverage. Protest outside the Govornors mansion or the Mayors, DA and LEOs home. Now we talking FOX,CNN,MSNBC and so on. 100 people can make more impact than

10,000 people at a rally.

[Mememe]

I say keep the bullets at a different location. What good is a gun w/o bullets?

[smokeythebear]

oregon passed somthing about a year ago allowing card holders to carry if they had a permit to do so. something like 3-4 guys fought for it and spent a boat load of $ from what I remember.

 

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/06/oregon_gun_ruling_a_victory_fo.html

 

Oregon's 32,929 medical marijuana users can't be denied concealed handgun licenses, despite the efforts of at least two sheriffs who want to keep concealed weapons out of those hands.

 

The Oregon Court of Appeals ruled this week that Washington County Sheriff Rob Gordon and Jackson County Sheriff Mike Winters were mistaken in their interpretation of the federal Gun Control Act. The act states that "an unlawful user ... of any controlled substance" can't own a gun, and the sheriffs contended the federal act trumps Oregon's medical marijuana law. Though federal law prohibits marijuana, Oregon's 12-year-old law legalizes pot possession for patients with qualifying ailments and a doctor's approval.

 

Leland Berger, who represented four medical marijuana users who were denied concealed handgun licenses, was relieved by the Court of Appeals decision. He sees the sheriffs' denial of licenses as discrimination against patients who use cannabis to treat debilitating health problems -- including cancer, glaucoma, seizures, nausea and severe pain.

 

"They are opposed to the law generally, and this is how they express their opposition to the law," Berger said, adding that fighting the cases was expensive for the counties. "The downside is it's a huge waste of taxpayer resources."

 

Elmer Dickens, who argued the case for the Washington County sheriff, took offense at Berger's characterization.

 

"We absolutely don't think this has anything to do with discrimination," Dickens said. "And frankly, he's impugning the integrity of every sheriff in the state."

 

Dickens said Washington County was the first in the state to ask applicants seeking concealed gun licenses whether they use medical marijuana and to deny those who said yes. He said sheriffs in many other counties -- including Coos and Douglas -- followed, seeing Washington County's logic: that sheriffs are sworn to enforce the law and federal law forbids pot smokers from possessing guns.

 

Multnomah County asks applicants the same question, but a sheriff's employee who handles applications said medical marijuana users aren't denied licenses. Clackamas County doesn't ask. State law doesn't direct counties to do so.

 

Washington County hasn't decided whether to appeal to the Oregon Supreme Court. Sheriff Gordon is on vacation and couldn't be reached for comment. Douglas County Sheriff Winters also couldn't be reached for comment.

 

At the center of the case is Steve Schwerdt, who used marijuana and other medications for debilitating back and knee pain that is so bad he sometimes can't walk. Washington County denied him a concealed handgun renewal, he fought it, and in 2005 Circuit Judge Marco Hernandez ruled in his favor -- a county attorney says because he couldn't prove Schwerdt actually owned a gun. Washington County later pulled Schwerdt's license, Schwerdt went to court again, and Circuit Judge Steven Price ruled in favor of Schwerdt and two other cannabis cardholders.

 

The county turned to the Court of Appeals.

 

"I'm getting tired of having to go through this over and over again," Schwerdt said.

 

Schwerdt said he feels as if the sheriff has put him in the same category as heroin addicts.

 

"The first time around I sat there and felt like I was a junkie," Schwerdt said. "They treat you like you're something that you're not -- a criminal and the sort. And I'm not."

 

Although medical marijuana users who practice the Second Amendment celebrated the appellate ruling, their legal standing remains unclear.

 

In April, the Oregon Supreme Court ruled that medical marijuana users can be fired for drug use. Specifically, in overturning a Court of Appeals ruling, the high court said federal law requiring employers to accommodate disabled workers doesn't cover medical marijuana users.

 

Adding to the murkiness, the Obama administration last year told federal authorities not to arrest or prosecute medical marijuana users. A tally at the time showed 14 states, including Washington and California, allowed some medical marijuana use.

 

The Oregon Firearms Federation has no problem with medical marijuana cardholders carrying concealed weapons -- or for that matter, any law-abiding citizen, said federation director Kevin Starrett.

 

-- Aimee Green

[smokeythebear]

I say keep the bullets at a different location. What good is a gun w/o bullets?

 

 

a gun with out bullets is usless and you will still get the same charge so if ya got the gun might as well have some lead for it

[bobandtorey]

Not all LEOs are bad. Only by working within the law will we change minds. Changing the mind of your buddy while you sit on the couch smoking a spliff trashing LEO's isnt going to help win any hearts and minds.Well maybe a vote if they even bother to do that. These same cops are the first responders in many cases when you need help. When criminals and/or terrorist decide to have a killing spree it is our local law enforcement who will be the ones laying down their lives for yours while you run safety. Think that it doesn't happen then watch the news, alot of them have been killed already this year.

I'm all for outting those LEO's who abuse the badge and it's authority. I would even protest (Peacefully) within the law to make their lives as miserable as those they have abused. But we should never perposefully make them into adversaries by screaming all cops are bad. If you think we got 64% of the vote without many of them being LEO votes then you give yourself to much credit.

Peaceful Protests (against those directly responsible), Civil suits against individual LEOs and Departments are the way to fight this abuse of voter intent. Individual officers generally dont have the money to fight a civil suite nor do many Departments. Hold all the rallies you want, you may get some local coverage. Protest outside the Govornors mansion or the Mayors, DA and LEOs home. Now we talking FOX,CNN,MSNBC and so on. 100 people can make more impact than

10,000 people at a rally.

Protest outside the Govornors mansion or the Mayors, DA and LEOs home.this wont work IMO it would onle get you in jail

but i would be their to your protest let me know when and were

[Smotpoke]

Protest outside the Govornors mansion or the Mayors, DA and LEOs home.this wont work IMO it would onle get you in jail

but i would be their to your protest let me know when and were

 

The right of the people to peacefully assemble shall not be infringed. Where have I heard that before ??

 

Oh yea ! The Constitution, I know they dont teach it in school anymore as it is counter to the liberal, progressive agenda but it is still the ultimate law in the land !!!

[The Digital Nomad]

This is a tough issue. I want to be politically correct and appear harmless to authority figures with big guns and bigger lawyers.

 

But.

 

It is the duty of every american citizen to ensure the US government stays honest. Many leaders in the past have said quotes like "It is the duty of citizens to obey just laws, and it is also their duty to rebel against unjust laws." That is the American way.

 

We have extended magazines for guns, we stock a bit more ammo than most, we have several calibers of firearms, and we train at local clubs and even hunt for food. We have those weapons and train because ultimately, it will be up to them to make a stand and bear arms against unjust rule or takeover. Not the average joe with the baseball bat in the closet, not the lady with a golf club - but the hunters with the guns.

 

I hope that logic and rational discussion would help develop the american community to what it should be, a nation govern by God, Country, and Man. Everyman and woman can be a concientious objector.

 

-DN

[Smotpoke]

Well Said DN.

 

Although I find killing what I hunt to be distasteful, I do so enjoy the hunt.

[HEMP4LIFE]

Well Said DN.

 

Although I find killing what I hunt to be distasteful, I do so enjoy the hunt.

I find eating what i kill very tasty if prepared properly, but i would default to the bible for any killing or hunting of humans.

if you like the thrill of the hunt maybe video games are the anwser.

but i have never played one so i cant have a honest opinion of that.

[HEMP4LIFE]

I find eating what i kill very tasty if prepared properly, but i would default to the bible for any killing or hunting of humans.

if you like the thrill of the hunt maybe video games are the anwser.

but i have never played one so i cant have a honest opinion of that.

what about the rumor i heard that the feds charge you with possesion of mm as soon as you register in the state mmj program

so if you should try to buy a handgun you cant

PLEASE TELL ME ITS NOT TRUE

[bobandtorey]

 

what about the rumor i heard that the feds charge you with possesion of mm as soon as you register in the state mmj program

so if you should try to buy a handgun you cant

PLEASE TELL ME ITS NOT TRUE

If you want to I would go to the gun store and fill out the papers but I would not tell them you have a card unless they ask you they are the ones that can answer your question

[trix]

what about the rumor i heard that the feds charge you with possesion of mm as soon as you register in the state mmj program

so if you should try to buy a handgun you cant

PLEASE TELL ME ITS NOT TRUE

 

Someone other than me, just purchachsed a pistol, and carries both a ccw and a MM card.. that person is not in jail.. js the only thing they ask when you purchase a handgun is ARE YOU ADDICTED TO ANY DRUGS.. uhh no I'm not.. very easy to answer and they don't even ask its a form you fill out, it's nobodys business if your a MM pt or not.. admit nothing imo.

 

Also when you go to the police station to register the handgun, you simply slide the lil paper under the window and leave easy as 1,2,3.. Don't sweat it.. just don't go in all stoned acting dumb and you will be fine.

 

Trix

[CaveatLector]

 

 

Also when you go to the police station to register the handgun, you simply slide the lil paper under the window and leave easy as 1,2,3.. Don't sweat it.. just don't go in all stoned acting dumb and you will be fine.

 

Trix

Registering the gun at the cop shop also includes a safety check. A cop will check the gun to be sure it is safe, whatever that means. That step may not be required for someone with a CPL though, I know they changed that law recently.

 

With that said, my experience has been that they literally LOOK at the gun and don't even really handle it to check whether it is safe.

[trix]

I was browsing through a few gun forums lately.. anyone know what the deal is with the new laws about having ALL firearms registered? ALL meaning even shotguns and antiques are classified as a pistol, and must be registered through the police station by Jan 1st?

[CaveatLector]

I was browsing through a few gun forums lately.. anyone know what the deal is with the new laws about having ALL firearms registered? ALL meaning even shotguns and antiques are classified as a pistol, and must be registered through the police station by Jan 1st?

Never heard of that. Don't believe that is the case.

[trix]

It was bunched in with the last set of bills that were coming up for vote few weeks back, the gun forums were in a up roar about it..

 

Same set of 7-9 bills that included the marijuana bills

[CaveatLector]

The NRA website had a good run-down of gun law requirements on a state-by-state basis last I knew. I think they also have info on which states have reciprocity agreements for concealed carry licenses.

[Restorium2]

That was the lie that the NRA put out right before the election. I heard about it from an avid hunter friend that stopped by the other day. He was scared to death by that lie. It changed his vote. The NRA really does America wrong with this propaganda lie machine. I used to have a sticker in the window of my truck. I would scrape it off now. They are taking advantage of anyone who will listen to their lies.